The Dark Knight Harveys Insanity (Possible Spoiler)

[ActuallyRobin]

Well there wasn't a Director's Cut of BB, so no idea. The extras on the DVD were enough for me

 

[MiniBond]

juts to say I like the idead though I dunno where it comes from ! It's sick, very Joker and would explain harvey's breakdown for instance !

 

[Jokers_Wild]

some of us have mentioned this in another thread...but rumors are soaring that rachel is killed by the joker... then a pregnancy rumor started going around...so could joker killing rachel, thus killing her and harveys unborn child, be what ultimately sets him off? well of course with the whole acid burned face ....but wouldnt it be interesting to see harvey get scared BEFORE he actually goes crazy and becomes twoface?

it would be very sadistic if joker killed a pregnant person. so i dont know if that will happen, but its possibe...then in movie 3 it could be joker vs twoface vs batman...hey it could work...

it does seem like this is very possible, esp inthe type of dark film were expecting with numerous deaths.

thoughts? OTHER THEORIES?

I really like this idea. Definitely takes this Joker to this whole other plain of infamy--to me it's like something similar or worse than the paralyzing of Barbara Gordon, or killing Gordon's wife in the comics. I mean, it would be bad enough if the Joker simply killed Rachael--but in a twist, Bruce/Batman finding out that Harvey and Rachael were keeping a pregnancy secret. That could be something to shatter Harvey. I'm just not sure this would be allowed into the film, even if Nolan wanted it. I can't imagine WB not asking them to tone down the level a bit.

 

[Keyser Soze]

"They had skinny mirrors!"

But on a side note: Her 2 seconds of acting in the trailer was better than Katie's entire performance.

Is that Clark Kent in the background?

But yeah, I have a good theory about what causes Harvey Dent to get driven to the edge of sanity, but its spoilerific...

Spoiler

The two barges. Each one containing half of Gotham's evacuees. Joker forces Dent to choose which one to blow up. The monumental pressure of choosing who lives and who dies would cause most people to crack, and it ties into the whole duality idea of Two-Face...

MAYOR: You have to choose! Make a choice!
DENT: I...I've got a coin...
MAYOR: You're going to decide the fate of this city on a coin toss!?
DENT: It's as fair a way to do it as any...

 

[NikkiSixx]

Is that Clark Kent in the background?

LMAO

 

[sad lieutenant]

"They had skinny mirrors!"

But on a side note: Her 2 seconds of acting in the trailer was better than Katie's entire performance.

Agreed on the performance bit.

And yet she does look 2nd trimester-ish.

And it''s pretty clear that Rachel is with Harvey.

And Harvey has to be emotionally traumatized -- in addition to the acid thing -- in order to go all cuckoo-nuts for the third film.

So I think it's very probable that Rachel: is "with" Harvey, is carrying his love-seed, will get murdered by the Joker, creating the emotional foundation for Two-Face to emerge, post acid bath.

And this scenario -- one in which Harvey wants to murder the Joker (and maybe go through batman to do it), the Joker wanting to kill everybody, and the Batman trying to prevent anarchy (i.e. incarcerate Dent and the Joker) -- would make for a very good and compelling third chapter.

 

[LaughingDarkOne]

I hate to break the news this way...but Maggie was actually pregnant while filming.....I know this because.....well....


I'm the father.

 

[DopdBrd]

So is it confirmed that Rachel is killed in this one?? The scene from the Trailer where Bruce is sitting half dress in the Bat Costume, he looks really depressed and his gloves and stuff are just thrown around like he is really upset about something.

Maybe after Rachel is killed
???

 

[Yurka]

I hate to break the news this way...but Maggie was actually pregnant while filming.....I know this because.....well....


I'm the father.

I'm sorry

 

[Reek]

guys jokers also does not have to know she is pregnant...rachel doesnt have to know either, they could find out in the autopsy....she could have gotten knocked up by harvey two days beforehand...

im just thinking....harvey would go crazy if he got his faced burnt and lost his girlfriend....but finding out there was an unborn child would push him well over the edge....and just think he could blame batman for it all.

 

[Redd]

well not much time from begins to the dark knight but how many time will pass during the movie?...a few months and the belly is there;-)

Where did you get your Avatar?

 

[Jackie]

Hey there everybody, my first post on these boards! Here we go:

I am reading all the five pages of this thread and I keep thinking. To be honest- can't find a better idea on why Harvey goes nuts, why Maggie looks pregnant in that scene and in the end- there is no better way of showing how sick Joker is than doing a scene in which he kills Rachel Dawes, being pregnant. Possibly the sickest thing a man can do.

There were some spoilers about the list of people, some kind of statement that Joker will express. A list of people that he wants to kill. And Rachel was on the tops of it all with Gordon and other "people of the law". So if that was true- I assume that Joker will kill her with the very first occasion he'll have.

But there are questions, even if such a plot could be a very strong line of the movie:

- is Nolan going so far with this movie?
- if he does, are the guys from WB letting him do what he wants to fully?

Time will tell. I know one thing for sure- if we're right and we'll have Joker killing pregnant Rachel Dawes in this movie, then it is going to a very intense and emotionally shaking thing. Something more than a movie, maybe. Kind of a myth. Very strong presentation of both good (Bat) and evil (Joker). Stronger than ever before.

We'll see.

 

[TheDarkVictory]

Is that Clark Kent in the background?

But yeah, I have a good theory about what causes Harvey Dent to get driven to the edge of sanity, but its spoilerific...

Spoiler

The two barges. Each one containing half of Gotham's evacuees. Joker forces Dent to choose which one to blow up. The monumental pressure of choosing who lives and who dies would cause most people to crack, and it ties into the whole duality idea of Two-Face...

MAYOR: You have to choose! Make a choice!
DENT: I...I've got a coin...
MAYOR: You're going to decide the fate of this city on a coin toss!?
DENT: It's as fair a way to do it as any...

YEAH, let's speculate ridiculously about that now! I bet Clark Kent is gonna show up at the end and he'll be all like "Rachel's baby was my baby, Joker, you mutha****a, it's go time" and then he winks at the camera. End Scene.

 

[Reek]

nice first post.... i agree with everything you said....

and what not better setup for batman screaming WHERE IS HE than having rachel killed....batman and harvey and even joker dont have to know shes pregnant. if harvey turns into twoface in the end, thats around the time they find out,...maybe the autopsy report comes back....

this coud even lead to the end of batman3...joker and batman could have a connection like in killing joke with the joker tellin a joker and both of them laughing, they could do that and joker could confess his ignorance of her pregnancy....could be very emotional...but in movie 3, harvey and joker gotta die.

 

[King K]

The first photos leaked of Maggie as Rachel show her to be very skinny wearing a trench coat. It's the pic where a couple of women are fixing her up to get ready for filming. She doesn't look pregnant at all. Unless the Penthouse scene takes place 2-3 months later or they just justify that a trench coat can cover up her belly, then I don't possibly see how Rachel can be pregnant.

 

[Jackie]

nice first post.... i agree with everything you said....

and what not better setup for batman screaming WHERE IS HE than having rachel killed....batman and harvey and even joker dont have to know shes pregnant. if harvey turns into twoface in the end, thats around the time they find out,...maybe the autopsy report comes back....

this coud even lead to the end of batman3...joker and batman could have a connection like in killing joke with the joker tellin a joker and both of them laughing, they could do that and joker could confess his ignorance of her pregnancy....could be very emotional...but in movie 3, harvey and joker gotta die.

I like the idea of post-Killing Joke plot, with the very ending of a third movie being inspired by that memorable talk in the rain they've had in TKJ. There were even all these words that would fit perfect in the third movie like you said:

Joker, for the first time ever slowing down and talking honestly to Bats:
- You must be an idiot Bat. You think you can cure a man who killed a pregnant woman? Ok, I hated her for being a creature of the law. But I killed that girl. I took a life away from her. If you still want to give me a hand, then it's only your silly hope of having peace and quiet in this city. You don't believe I can be cured. Nor do I...


And on and on like that. Personally, I would like to see, somewhere in the third movie maybe, the Joker talking honestly about what he has done. The Joker who knows the pain he brings to other people. It was the greatest part of TKJ I think. This little human element on the bottom of that beast.

 

[TheDarkVictory]

I honestly don't think WB would want their tent-pole summer flick revolving around the death of an unborn baby. Be realistic, folks. This is there money-train movie for next year. Can you imagine the parental protests if they take their children to a superhero film where a woman and her child are brutally slaughtered? I just don't think it's plausible, personally. I mean, us fans think it would be great, but how much of the gross do we even count for, in the end?

 

[TheDarkVictory]

I like the idea of post-Killing Joke plot, with the very ending of a third movie being inspired by that memorable talk in the rain they've had in TDK. There were even all these words that would fit perfect in the third movie like you said:

Joker, for the first time ever slowing down and talking honestly to Bats:
- You must be an idiot Bat. You think you can cure a man who killed a pregnant woman? Ok, I hated her for being a creature of the law. But I killed that girl. I took a life away from her. If you still want to give me a hand, then it's only your silly hope of having peace and quiet in this city. You don't believe I can be cured. Nor do I...


And on and on like that. Personally, I would like to see, somewhere in the third movie maybe, the Joker talking honestly about what he has done. The Joker who knows the pain he brings to other people. It was the greatest part of TKJ I think. This little human element on the bottom of that beast.

that would be all well and fine, except didn't nolan already say there are absolutely no shades to the joker? that he's an absolute? as in, pure unadulterated evil. so i'd be surprised if we get a sympathetic joker at some point.

 

[Jackie]

i'd be surprised if we get a sympathetic joker at some point.

Surprise is one of the most important elements of Joker's personality
And sadly I agree with you on the money train for WB. It is hard to believe that they will truly let such a scene take place in the movie.

 

[Thythoutrust]

I honestly don't think WB would want their tent-pole summer flick revolving around the death of an unborn baby. Be realistic, folks. This is there money-train movie for next year. Can you imagine the parental protests if they take their children to a superhero film where a woman and her child are brutally slaughtered? I just don't think it's plausible, personally. I mean, us fans think it would be great, but how much of the gross do we even count for, in the end?

Nah man, there is ''Ways'' of inserting it, we're not talking about the joker ripping her stomach apart and eating the baby, let's say he kills her with a bullet. Bang she's dead, bang the baby is dead.

 

[Jackie]

Nah man, there is ''Ways'' of inserting it, we're not talking about the joker ripping her stomach apart and eating the baby, let's say he kills her with a bullet. Bang she's dead, bang the baby is dead.

That's true and possible.

 

[TheDarkVictory]

Nah man, there is ''Ways'' of inserting it, we're not talking about the joker ripping her stomach apart and eating the baby, let's say he kills her with a bullet. Bang she's dead, bang the baby is dead.

That's still the Joker murdering an unborn child. It doesn't have to be him "eating the baby", it's the mere idea of the act. Can you name any other 200 million dollar budgeted film that has done something like this? A 200 million dollar budgeted summer tent-pole flick that thousands upon thousands of children will go see? I would love to see something like this as much as the next guy, but it just DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

Also, I was told by somebody who was ONSET the entire time they were in Chicago that

Spoiler

Joker kills Rachel INDIRECTLY, and a bullet is not indirect.

Now, you don't have to believe that but I trust this person and know 100% that he was involved the entire time, so I'm going to believe him.

 

[Thythoutrust]

That's still the Joker murdering an unborn child. It doesn't have to be him "eating the baby", it's the mere idea of the act. Can you name any other 200 million dollar budgeted film that has done something like this? A 200 million dollar budgeted summer tent-pole flick that thousands upon thousands of children will go see? I would love to see something like this as much as the next guy, but it just DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

It's gonna be rated 13.
And a pregnant woman dying with a baby is not something rare.
Who knows maybe the joker won't know she's pregnant.

 

[Reek]

The first photos leaked of Maggie as Rachel show her to be very skinny wearing a trench coat. It's the pic where a couple of women are fixing her up to get ready for filming. She doesn't look pregnant at all. Unless the Penthouse scene takes place 2-3 months later or they just justify that a trench coat can cover up her belly, then I don't possibly see how Rachel can be pregnant.

what is it you people dont get....A WOMAN DOES NOT HAVE TO BE FAT TO BE PREGNANT.

 

[TheDarkVictory]

what is it you people dont get....A WOMAN DOES NOT HAVE TO BE FAT TO BE PREGNANT.

yeah, and an oddly shaped woman is not necessarily pregnant.