HBO's True Detective - Part 2

[Six]

Exactly. Most people probably binge watched it. People need to wait and judge it as its final product, its not the shows fault their attention span is low.

 

[Marvolo]

Exactly. Most people probably binge watched it. People need to wait and judge it as its final product, its not the shows fault their attention span is low.

I've watched plenty of shows that some would say take patience. Hell, one of my favorite shows was Mad Men and it was about an Ad Agency and wasn't a show built around suspense and action and weekly revelations, and that show never bored me. And I watched season one of True Detective week to week as it aired, and my attention never wavered. Attention spans aren't the problem here. But if you feel the need to tell yourself that is the problem and ignore what people are saying go for it.

Whether I watched this season in one go or week to week it wouldn't improve the one note characters, the uninteresting mystery, the cliche interdepartmental cop drama, or the weak execution of this story.

If you like this season good for you. I'm glad someone can enjoy this, because that may result in another better season, but some of us expect a bit more from this show, and this weak substandard season isn't cutting it.

 

[DarkShadow10]

Didn't somebody already post that in here like a week or two ago?

Here ya go:

Spoiler

Heh.

 

[Tyrell Wellick]

feel sorry for vaughn...he couldnt really do much with the stuff he received so far...

 

[JtheDreamer]

If you like this season good for you. I'm glad someone can enjoy this, because that may result in another better season, but some of us expect a bit more from this show, and this weak substandard season isn't cutting it.

Oh it's cutting it alright. Thank God I don't have to worry about next season because this franchise is in great hands.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Direct all the episodes just like Cary did in season 1

The reason for that though was because it had a lot of time to get made, more time than 99% of tv shows. They started filming season one at the beginning of 2013. Pre-Production much longer too to properly plan and get everything together for one director. The first season was such an anomaly in television. Now season two has fallen back into the normality of season to season scheduling where there's less time. I'm not using this as an excuse, it's really not when every other show on television has this same time and still creates magic in such a short time span.

You could say it wouldn't be so bad to go back to the first season's method. I think a longer wait would be worth it, like any great film, but I don't think HBO would allow this.

Writing an entire show by yourself in less time is ****ing tough. Even for someone like Pizzolatto. That's why there's writer's rooms. Even though I hate suggesting what creative people should do when something doesn't quite amount to expectations (like saying Nolan shouldn't make as big as movies as Interstellar) So I'd say for him it wouldn't hurt to hire other writers yet there's no reason why this can't be a new brand of storytelling on television. Noah Hawley from Fargo is doing it, and I want to see more of this keep going for the sake of writers willing to go the extra length to ensure their own creativity and the possibility for more writers to be able to do this. So I don't want Pizzolatto to just stop his one writer method because people didn't like this season. He should stick to his guns. That's why I'm predicting that season three will be more like this season than season one. Unless Pizzolatto can put any ego or protection of his work aside and assess what worked and what didn't and really find a story that's incredible. Or he just writes what he wants and doesn't really care if people love it or hate it. George R.R. Martin is in the same boat.

 

[P Supreme]

so that whole rapist coming back into the picture and Velcoro saying Frank set him up, that whole bit confused me can someone explain?

 

[Doctor Jones]

so that whole rapist coming back into the picture and Velcoro saying Frank set him up, that whole bit confused me can someone explain?

Yes, Velcoro ended up killing the wrong man years ago after it was revealed to him that the real rapist was caught three weeks before this episode.

Frank lied to Velcoro years ago just so he could use him. Or other things we don't know yet. We don't know the exact why Frank set him up.

 

[Harry_Lime02]

It's likely the guy Velcoro killed was someone Frank wanted out of the way anyway, so Frank just used him to get rid of a problem and get him on the hook. Kinda like what happened to Sawyer in LOST.

 

[JtheDreamer]

It's likely the guy Velcoro killed was someone Frank wanted out of the way anyway, so Frank just used him to get rid of a problem and get him on the hook. Kinda like what happened to Sawyer in LOST.

That's what I'm thinking.

 

[Smallville13]

The reason for that though was because it had a lot of time to get made, more time than 99% of tv shows. They started filming season one at the beginning of 2013. Pre-Production much longer too to properly plan and get everything together for one director. The first season was such an anomaly in television. Now season two has fallen back into the normality of season to season scheduling where there's less time. I'm not using this as an excuse, it's really not when every other show on television has this same time and still creates magic in such a short time span.

You could say it wouldn't be so bad to go back to the first season's method. I think a longer wait would be worth it, like any great film, but I don't think HBO would allow this.

Writing an entire show by yourself in less time is ****ing tough. Even for someone like Pizzolatto. That's why there's writer's rooms. Even though I hate suggesting what creative people should do when something doesn't quite amount to expectations (like saying Nolan shouldn't make as big as movies as Interstellar) So I'd say for him it wouldn't hurt to hire other writers yet there's no reason why this can't be a new brand of storytelling on television. Noah Hawley from Fargo is doing it, and I want to see more of this keep going for the sake of writers willing to go the extra length to ensure their own creativity and the possibility for more writers to be able to do this. So I don't want Pizzolatto to just stop his one writer method because people didn't like this season. He should stick to his guns. That's why I'm predicting that season three will be more like this season than season one. Unless Pizzolatto can put any ego or protection of his work aside and assess what worked and what didn't and really find a story that's incredible. Or he just writes what he wants and doesn't really care if people love it or hate it. George R.R. Martin is in the same boat.

Agree 100%.

I don't feel it's the lack of a single director that's hurt this season at all. The directing I feel has been competent all round. Justin Lin is a brilliant director. And I always enjoy seeing a new directors take on the story in the same way different comic artists bring fresh ideas and visuals to the stories.

What's hurt it is the subpar writing this time around. And I'm sure the limited timeframe to write an entire season is what hurt. I really don't think Pizzolatto should take some creative highground here either. All good shows with driven auteurs behind them (be it David Lynch, Mathew Weiner, Dan Harmon, Aaron Sorkin, or Joss Whedon) have had a writing staff to assist. But the clear voice of their respective shows is still completely those creators.

 

[Golgo-13]

I like McAdams in this. Just like with Keri Russell in The Americans, it's great seeing these actresses who generally play 'good girls' getting to show off their acting range by playing something different.

I don't really see how that probably facetious comment is any worse than you declaring that Season 1 is factually better than Season 2.

Season 2 is only 5 eps in. Looking back, 5 eps into season 1 wasn't exactly blowing my skirt up either....

 

[Doctor Jones]

Agree 100%.

I don't feel it's the lack of a single director that's hurt this season at all. The directing I feel has been competent all round. Justin Lin is a brilliant director. And I always enjoy seeing a new directors take on the story in the same way different comic artists bring fresh ideas and visuals to the stories.

What's hurt it is the subpar writing this time around. And I'm sure the limited timeframe to write an entire season is what hurt. I really don't think Pizzolatto should take some creative highground here either. All good shows with driven auteurs behind them (be it David Lynch, Mathew Weiner, Dan Harmon, Aaron Sorkin, or Joss Whedon) have had a writing staff to assist. But the clear voice of their respective shows is still completely those creators.

We'll see what happens to Fargo season two to really compare. Is Hawley even writing all episodes again? I don't even know. Because if season two gets praise and doesn't get the mixed reception this season has, then it is indeed possible to keep this up. I really think it comes down to the writer himself and what he writes. The mixed response isn't because Pizzolatto is writing himself. It's because people have problems with what he's writing.

Right now I refuse to believe that just because this season isn't perceived as good doesn't mean Pizzolatto needs to be working with other writers. This is new territory and I think there's potential for more writers to be doing this in the future. Not all shows of course because you'd be cutting out a lot of jobs, but this is something that's new and we shouldn't strike it down because one season isn't seen as good as the last.

 

[Man in the Suit]

I believe Hawley is writing all the episodes for Fargo season 2. But he had a writers room made up of a few people o help him break the nine remaining season 1 episodes.

 

[kedrell]

Honestly I thought this episode was the best of the season yet. Sure, this season started slower than season 1 and it's taken it's sweet time in building the interest. But there has always been at least some positive progress each episode so I've stayed nominally invested at least for the duration. Now I'm at a point where I'm actually anticipating the next episode so that's good news for me. This was never going to go down as one of TV's finest seasons or anything(I wouldn't even label the first season like that due to the screw up in the ending) but it's TV worth watching and to me that all by itself makes it a rarity.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Honestly I thought this episode was the best of the season yet. Sure, this season started slower than season 1 and it's taken it's sweet time in building the interest. But there has always been at least some positive progress each episode so I've stayed nominally invested at least for the duration. Now I'm at a point where I'm actually anticipating the next episode so that's good news for me. This was never going to go down as one of TV's finest seasons or anything(I wouldn't even label the first season like that due to the screw up in the ending) but it's TV worth watching and to me that all by itself makes it a rarity.

I actually have a crazy insane theory that the masked Crow shooter is Paul. I remember you said Paul might be the killer, I still don't think he is and we're supposed to think the shooter was the killer. But I personally don't think the Crow Mask is the murderer. And Paul being the guy who shot Ray answers why he didn't kill him and how he was able to get access to a buck shot police weapon. I have other ideas too and I realize it's insane, and holes are allowed to be poked in it, but I enjoy these crazy theories and it's always part of a mystery.

Or the shooter is Frank's assistant which is more plausible at this point.

 

[Smallville13]

We'll see what happens to Fargo season two to really compare. Is Hawley even writing all episodes again? I don't even know. Because if season two gets praise and doesn't get the mixed reception this season has, then it is indeed possible to keep this up. I really think it comes down to the writer himself and what he writes. The mixed response isn't because Pizzolatto is writing himself. It's because people have problems with what he's writing.

Right now I refuse to believe that just because this season isn't perceived as good doesn't mean Pizzolatto needs to be working with other writers. This is new territory and I think there's potential for more writers to be doing this in the future. Not all shows of course because you'd be cutting out a lot of jobs, but this is something that's new and we shouldn't strike it down because one season isn't seen as good as the last.

Yeah, no I agree with you. If people are gifted enough to do it, power to them. We just might be getting a stronger season if they'd gone a more traditional pre-production route on this one.

Objectively speaking, it seems every reviewer and message board commenter is mainly pointing their finger to the writing being the Achilles's heel here. So if this is an experiment, it fell down at least to a certain extent. However we do still have 3 eps left, not that they'll magically undo the godawful dialogue we've had to go through already.

I honestly really think there's alot more to be said for McCoughnahey and Harrelson's producer roles owing to the strength of last season as well. I believe they're credited for this season as well, but I can see them being alot more involved when they were the ones in front of the camera.

 

[TheBat812]

I wonder if the perception is different because both seasons deal with classic detective conventions and tropes, but this season is an exploration of a more well explored section of noir than the first. I wonder if that lack of knowledge made it feel more unique and fresher to the audience. Personally I like a lot of the convention they're playing with this season of taking archetypal cops, politicians and gangsters and throwing a wrench into those conventions throughout the season. rust and Marty were pretty typical archetypes as well, for detective stories. But to me all the characters in both seasons have been very well written and explored. The direction has just been weaker this season, making a line that could be very good into a mediocre one.

I would love to see pizzolato bring in a few other writers and become the show runner instead of sole writer. That way he still has control and can use his skill set, but without the intense amount of work that's required of writing 8 hours of content in less than a year. if course it's impossible to know. Anybody have any links to good articles or interviews with either pizzolatto or fukuhara about the process of crafting season 1?

 

[James]

I've really been enjoying this season so far. I'll confess a lot of the finer details regarding the mystery are flying over my head because I tend to zone out a little when they start babbling about property certificates and throwing various unfamiliar names around -but the broad strokes keep me entertained.

The lead characters are all interesting, and I'm enjoying the actor's performances. Vince Vaughn seems to be getting a lot of flack but I feel like it's more to do with his often-stoic character than it is his acting ability. It's nice to see Taylor Kitsch in a role with some depth, I've thought for a long time the guy has a lot of potential despite his relatively uninspiring run through Hollywood so far.

My favourite thing so far has been the firefight. It was unexpected and a lot of fun, I watched it twice. It's unlikely given how much chaos went down, but I'm hoping we get a similar style action scene before the season is done.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Yeah, no I agree with you. If people are gifted enough to do it, power to them. We just might be getting a stronger season if they'd gone a more traditional pre-production route on this one.

Objectively speaking, it seems every reviewer and message board commenter is mainly pointing their finger to the writing being the Achilles's heel here. So if this is an experiment, it fell down at least to a certain extent. However we do still have 3 eps left, not that they'll magically undo the godawful dialogue we've had to go through already.

I honestly really think there's alot more to be said for McCoughnahey and Harrelson's producer roles owing to the strength of last season as well. I believe they're credited for this season as well, but I can see them being alot more involved when they were the ones in front of the camera.

I doubt McConaughey and Harrelson's roles as exec producers are any more involved as Fukinaga. I think it's just a contractual thing.

I'm personally not finding anything wrong with the dialogue. It's really all no different than Pizzolato's last season dialogue. I think it comes down to the actors delivering them and executing them in a way where you can believe people would say that.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Season 2 is only 5 eps in. Looking back, 5 eps into season 1 wasn't exactly blowing my skirt up either....

That's what I said. I think many mis-remember that the pace was pretty slow except for the big shootout in the hood.

I wonder if the perception is different because both seasons deal with classic detective conventions and tropes, but this season is an exploration of a more well explored section of noir than the first. I wonder if that lack of knowledge made it feel more unique and fresher to the audience. Personally I like a lot of the convention they're playing with this season of taking archetypal cops, politicians and gangsters and throwing a wrench into those conventions throughout the season. rust and Marty were pretty typical archetypes as well, for detective stories. But to me all the characters in both seasons have been very well written and explored. The direction has just been weaker this season, making a line that could be very good into a mediocre one.

I would love to see pizzolato bring in a few other writers and become the show runner instead of sole writer. That way he still has control and can use his skill set, but without the intense amount of work that's required of writing 8 hours of content in less than a year. if course it's impossible to know. Anybody have any links to good articles or interviews with either pizzolatto or fukuhara about the process of crafting season 1?

This season is absolutely rich with memorable side characters where-as season 1 was predominantly the Rust and Martin show.

 

[JtheDreamer]

We'll see what happens to Fargo season two to really compare. Is Hawley even writing all episodes again? I don't even know. Because if season two gets praise and doesn't get the mixed reception this season has, then it is indeed possible to keep this up. I really think it comes down to the writer himself and what he writes. The mixed response isn't because Pizzolatto is writing himself. It's because people have problems with what he's writing.

I believe Hawley is writing all the episodes for Fargo season 2. But he had a writers room made up of a few people o help him break the nine remaining season 1 episodes.

Not to change the subject, but someone at work recommended I watch Fargo if I liked the TD kind of stuff. You guys agree I should check it out?

 

[antsman41]

S1 of TD may not have had much "action" as well but it had character depth, great acting, a mystery/plot that was interesting, and was overall more fun ala internet theorizing, etc.

 

[antsman41]

Not to change the subject, but someone at work recommended I watch Fargo if I liked the TD kind of stuff. You guys agree I should check it out?

Fargo is so much better. Don't get me wrong I loved S1 of TD but Fargo has everything. Noir, comedy, action, interesting setting, amazing characters, interesting plots and twists. Just the trailer for S2 was more interesting than the 5 episodes we've gotten of TD S2.

 

[slimshady247]

Just the trailer for S2 was more interesting than the 5 episodes we've gotten of TD S2.

Ugh, just ****ing stop already, we get it.