Henry Cavill IS Clark Kent/Superman - Part 7

[Wolfgangamadeus]

I respect people's opinions but I almost always cringe when my fellow posters on here say that even when Superman is not on-screen he's influencing this story.

I don't know any nice way to say this so I'll just say it. To me that line of thinking is nothing but an excuse for why such a massively important character has been sidelined more and more after supposedly being built up as the most important character. And I'm not going to tell anybody else what to buy but I'm not buying that. I want the character on screen and interacting with the team. I'm not happy with him being the mere off-screen influence. He can be on screen and and influence as well.

I'm with you 100%. The fact that Batman and WW out of nowhere are headlining a franchise that Superman started while he's sidelined and won't be a founding member of the JL is inexcusable to me.

 

[misslane38]

I'm with you 100%. The fact that Batman and WW out of nowhere are headlining a franchise that Superman started while he's sidelined and won't be a founding member of the JL is inexcusable to me.

We don't have any information to confirm that Superman will not have significant interaction with the team or will not be integral to its founding.

 

[Wolfgangamadeus]

We don't have any information to confirm that Superman will not have significant interaction with the team or will not be integral to its founding.

In the SDCC teaser it's batman recruiting everyone. Even Snyder said he wanted Superman out and Batman to collect and form the team with WW.

 

[All-Father]

I respect people's opinions but I almost always cringe when my fellow posters on here say that even when Superman is not on-screen he's influencing this story.

I don't know any nice way to say this so I'll just say it. To me that line of thinking is nothing but an excuse for why such a massively important character has been sidelined more and more after supposedly being built up as the most important character. And I'm not going to tell anybody else what to buy but I'm not buying that. I want the character on screen and interacting with the team. I'm not happy with him being the mere off-screen influence. He can be on screen and and influence as well.

So true! It's embarrassing to see these poor excuses repeated over and over.
I guess most of these posters don't even believe it.

 

[misslane38]

In the SDCC teaser it's batman recruiting everyone. Even Snyder said he wanted Superman out and Batman to collect and form the team with WW.

It was a teaser made up of only a month or so filmed footage. It also wasn't going to spoil Superman's resurrection. Others collecting the team doesn't leave Superman without a vital foundational role or significant interactions with the team as a leader and a member.

 

[Arachnerd]

So true! It's embarrassing to see these poor excuses repeated over and over.
I guess most of these posters don't even believe it.

Please refrain from writing posts like this in the future, or else you'll look like a prick.

There's this thing called subjectivity, and as long as you discuss your thoughts civilly while also respecting different opinions, everything's cool.

 

[misslane38]

I respect people's opinions but I almost always cringe when my fellow posters on here say that even when Superman is not on-screen he's influencing this story.

I don't know any nice way to say this so I'll just say it. To me that line of thinking is nothing but an excuse for why such a massively important character has been sidelined more and more after supposedly being built up as the most important character. And I'm not going to tell anybody else what to buy but I'm not buying that. I want the character on screen and interacting with the team. I'm not happy with him being the mere off-screen influence. He can be on screen and and influence as well.

Please. His absence proves his importance. If he was around, it would be too easy. If he was around, the world and heroes wouldn't be galvanized by his sacrifice and example. Characters of great power and significance to teams and to narratives can be removed for effect, as Gandalf was for LotR.

 

[MrsKent26]

I understand the nature of "for effect" and such, but I've never thought of superman as one of those Jesus-y characters that leads through his absence and sacrifice. Maybe it's just a personal taste affliction of mine because I find such biblical characters too remote and boring. I see superman as someone who simply does what he loves and leads by example. Not in a preachy way, but in humble good-to-the-core country-boy ways. He just does his thing and said thing happens to change the world for the better.

 

[misslane38]

I understand the nature of "for effect" and such, but I've never thought of superman as one of those Jesus-y characters that leads through his absence and sacrifice. Maybe it's just a personal taste affliction of mine because I find such biblical characters too remote and boring. I see superman as someone who simply does what he loves and leads by example. Not in a preachy way, but in humble good-to-the-core country-boy ways. He just does his thing and said thing happens to change the world for the better.

This makes no sense. Superman has already done the above. It's why his sacrifice already has inspirational effect. Moreover, what you've described can still happen when he finally resurrects and potentially rallies the team. It's not an either/or.

 

[MrsKent26]

This makes no sense. Superman has already done the above. It's why his sacrifice already has inspirational effect. Moreover, what you've described can still happen when he finally resurrects and potentially rallies the team. It's not an either/or.

I...don't see what doesn't make sense. The above doesn't require his death/removal from the story, or the removal of his personality, for that matter. The whole resurrection thing is, IMO, a dreary and ill-fitting road block for a character we know won't stay dead. I have nothing against people liking it, but I don't. I think it'd be fresher and better received had they not gone full Jesus. There's no need for him to die to inspire.

 

[Black Narcissus]

But how would you all do it then? I'm not asking what they should've done. With how BvS ended, his absence and an ''enemy coming'' how would you tell this JL story? Makes perfect sense to have Bruce and Diana recruit from there. Ya'll really believe he wont interact with any of the jl members? Come on now.

 

[MrsKent26]

I would have had Bruce/Clark come to an uneasy truce after intense conflict in BvS. They're not quite BFF's, but they've somehow earned each others' respect. I'd have the two of them seek out the rest of the JL. That way we'd get to see them interact and have character development for both of them and shortly after, the rest of the JL.

 

[Wolfgangamadeus]

I wouldn't have killed Superman to begin with. Unnecessary and pointless. But if I had to pick up JL from where they left off JL, I would have them assemble the team but it would be a really rusty team with no chemistry and proper leadership. As meticulous and rational as Batman is, he can't really inspire a group since he's mostly so morose himself.

In the second act, have the team confront Steppenwolf, and get beaten badly... and I mean badly. They have to be in shambles as he's about to toy with regular people and they watch helplessly. Superman then would comeback and knock off Steppenwolf to stop the fight. Then over the course of the remaining hour and a half give structure, guidance and build relationships with the team.

 

[Wolfgangamadeus]

It was a teaser made up of only a month or so filmed footage. It also wasn't going to spoil Superman's resurrection. Others collecting the team doesn't leave Superman without a vital foundational role or significant interactions with the team as a leader and a member.

He's not recruiting them though. It's Bruce and wondy deciding and discussing. They're the leaders now. They've taken over.

 

[Black Narcissus]

I would have had Bruce/Clark come to an uneasy truce after intense conflict in BvS. They're not quite BFF's, but they've somehow earned each others' respect. I'd have the two of them seek out the rest of the JL. That way we'd get to see them interact and have character development for both of them and shortly after, the rest of the JL.

Again, I'm not asking what they should've done, but what to do with the story they were left with. Everything we have seen so far from JL makes sense with that story. What they do with Superman once he comes back is a whole other thing.

 

[Bren]

Stuff it. Have the JL (minus Superman) take virtually the entire film to eventually and just barely beat Steppenwolf. At the end, he tells them now Darkseid will come. Batman says it's hopeless, they can't beat him.

WW tells them to follow her. They go to Greece, find the mythological doors to Tartarus, manage to break them open, and see Superman standing there, bloodied, beaten but victorious, Hades at his feet, his demonic troops strewn broken on the fields behind them.
Superman walks through the doors and they swing shut behind him.
The JL stand looking at him in awe.
He says,

"Jeez I'm starving. Let's get schwarmas..." with a smile.
Fade to black.

 

[misslane38]

He's not recruiting them though. It's Bruce and wondy deciding and discussing. They're the leaders now. They've taken over.

Recruiting isn't leadership. Hermione had the idea for Dumbledore's army and even recruited Harry to be its leader, but it's Harry that made others want to join and who ultimately led them to victory in their first big battle at the Department of Mysteries in Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. Is Amanda Waller the leader of the SS just because it's her idea? There's more to consider. It's closed-minded to exalt Diana's and Bruce's contributions so much while being so quick to underestimate Superman's.

 

[idiot09]

Lets see the movie first before determining how important someone's role is ehh?

 

[Superchan]

Lets see the movie first before determining how important someone's role is ehh?

How dare you introduce logic into this discussion!!!

 

[Black Narcissus]

 

[herolee10]

We don't have any information to confirm that Superman will not have significant interaction with the team or will not be integral to its founding.

The group looks pretty well founded already if you ask me, and that's without Superman being there as well.

And with everything that's going on in this film, it's only logical to assume that Superman won't have much time to even get involved with this group until the final battle...much less be integral to its founding, especially if the means to his return takes up a lot of time to take place.

The only way that Superman would have a chance to having a good amount of screen devoted to interacting with the group would be if he was revived around the same time that Jack Sparrow was for "World's End" and if this film was as LONG as "World's End".

Please. His absence proves his importance. If he was around, it would be too easy. If he was around, the world and heroes wouldn't be galvanized by his sacrifice and example. Characters of great power and significance to teams and to narratives can be removed for effect, as Gandalf was for LotR.

If anything, the very concept of the DCEU's JL is already insulting to its members as well. Bruce and Diana form the group because Superman is no longer around so what does that say of the entire group then? That it takes 5 costumed heroes to make up for one?

The threat that Darkseid's minions brings should have been so great that even with Superman, it wouldn't look like the group would have a solid chance of surviving the onslaught.

I would have had Bruce/Clark come to an uneasy truce after intense conflict in BvS. They're not quite BFF's, but they've somehow earned each others' respect. I'd have the two of them seek out the rest of the JL. That way we'd get to see them interact and have character development for both of them and shortly after, the rest of the JL.

And had the executives for Warner Bros seen this post, they would have saved millions of dollars from having to hire Snyder to come up with a story with JL when MrsKent's post pretty much nails on what would most likely have been a better story arc for this film.

I honestly don't know why Snyder believes that by having Superman involved in the recruitment, that it would make things too easy. Just because he's Superman, it doesn't mean that everyone would be willing to follow him right away. BvS showed that the world was divided when it came to Superman's presence/actions, so it would be reasonable to assume that members of the JL would feel the same as well.

 

[idiot09]

I honestly don't know why Snyder believes that by having Superman involved in the recruitment, that it would make things too easy. Just because he's Superman, it doesn't mean that everyone would be willing to follow him right away.

You believe this applies for Superman, but not for Batman, you know the most antisocial one in the group? lmao

 

[herolee10]

You believe this applies for Superman, but not for Batman, you know the most antisocial one in the group? lmao

I already knew that it applied for Batman and that's why I didn't bring him up. Point being, I don't think it would be easy for either of them to recruit a team filled with superheroes, even if they were on the same page about doing that.

It would have been great if they had taken baby steps from BvS where Superman and Batman would have formed an uneasy alliance and where, as a result of the difference in their personalities, would make things even harder for them to recruit the heroes.

 

[idiot09]

I already knew that it applied for Batman and that's why I didn't bring him up. Point being, I don't think it would be easy for either of them to recruit a team filled with superheroes, even if they were on the same page about doing that.

It would have been great if they had taken baby steps from BvS where Superman and Batman would have formed an uneasy alliance and where, as a result of the difference in their personalities, would make things even harder for them to recruit the heroes.

Ehh. I see nothing wrong with the story they are telling. Having Bruce be alone is much more interesting anyway.

And btw, 5 people standing in a line doesnt constitute a proper team. I'll see the movie first before deciding how each member of the JL team is served. For all we know, too much focus will be on Superman, and Cyborg will get the shaft.

 

[Polux]

Posters take quotes out of context, interpret them to fit their already existing narrative.

Posters see that other posters disagree with said interpretation of the quotes, accuse them of "believing what they want to believe".

Posters fail to see the irony of that.

Rinse. Repeat.