BvS Henry Cavill IS Superman - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[Clark-Kent]

Herolee, is that you?

hmmm

 

[HELLilac]

You're misquoting Snyder and the context he gave his answer in.

Did I???

Spoiler

"Pretty early on I had this idea that I wanted [Superman's death] to happen. I really felt like if we were going to move forward with the Justice League, that Batman needed to put it together, and you couldn't have this... I mean Superman is Superman," Snyder said. "If he's around, he's going to be put in charge because he's Superman. And so I really felt we need to - in a cool way - create a mechanism that could get him out of the way. And I didn't want to [rolls eyes] freeze him on ice and shoot him into space. I thought that was boring [laughs]."

You do realise how much I want to be wrong, right?

 

[HELLilac]

Herolee, is that you?

No. Just another passionate debbie downer.

 

[Rapunzel]

No. Just another passionate debbie downer.

Hahaha...I was just teasing. But seriously, I can understand being a debbie downer about BvS if yyou didn't like it. But let's not be debbie downers about JL yet. It hasn't even started filming. And who knows? Snyder may change his plans or be forced to change.

We don't know the JL plans for Supes yet. So let's just stick to criticizing what we actually have. I'm getting exhausted worrying about the future.

 

[Vaibow]

we can all hope.

Honestly, how would you all feel, if when Superman is seen, for the first time in all his glory in JL, if the john williams theme kicks in - i personally would love that. It's like saying, this is superman.

You got to admit, the GA would get a kick..


That tune is to superman is what John Barry's theme is to bond.

 

[flickchick85]

I personally love Hans Zimmer's theme from MoS. I wish we'd been able to hear it in its full glory just once in this film.

 

[X Knight]

I personally love Hans Zimmer's theme from MoS. I wish we'd been able to hear it in its full glory just once in this film.

well, at least we got the lovely piano motif from Ideal of Hope in BvS.

I imagine we will get to hear the full blown theme again once Superman makes his triumphant return.....

........with his mullet!!

 

[HELLilac]

Hahaha...I was just teasing. But seriously, I can understand being a debbie downer about BvS if yyou didn't like it. But let's not be debbie downers about JL yet. It hasn't even started filming. And who knows? Snyder may change his plans or be forced to change.

We don't know the JL plans for Supes yet. So let's just stick to criticizing what we actually have. I'm getting exhausted worrying about the future.

I loved BvS and left theatre with such hopeful feeling. I'd have stayed positive had I known nothing but Zack DID make it too clear about his 'plan' regarding the forming of the league. Since the shooting is starting soon unless the delay happen I don't think they're going to change anything major at this point. I wish they'd just start shooting now so there'd be some leak set photos and some of them might calm me down.

Honestly, how would you all feel, if when Superman is seen, for the first time in all his glory in JL, if the john williams theme kicks in - i personally would love that. It's like saying, this is superman.

You got to admit, the GA would get a kick..

That tune is to superman is what John Barry's theme is to bond.

Though I prefer Zimmer's score but man if they decided to go with that the crowd would went nuts and my heart would stop for epicness overload.

I personally love Hans Zimmer's theme from MoS. I wish we'd been able to hear it in its full glory just once in this film.

Hopefully they saved it for JL for the full impact.

 

[HELLilac]

well, at least we got the lovely piano motif from Ideal of Hope in BvS.

I imagine we will get to hear the full blown theme again once Superman makes his triumphant return.....

........with his mullet!!

And the black suit?

 

[Andreth]

Oh yeaaah. The mullet and the black suit!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, i haven't read the comic of his return in ages, didn't a clone come back first? I remember Lois recognizing it wasn't Clark

 

[X Knight]

Oh yeaaah. The mullet and the black suit!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, i haven't read the comic of his return in ages, didn't a clone come back first? I remember Lois recognizing it wasn't Clark

all I really remember from that period was that there were multiple "Supermen" who stepped up to "replace" Superman.

Superboy ( is he the clone you're referring to? )
Cyborg Superman
Steel
Eradicator

was there one more?? I can't remember.

 

[X Knight]

And the black suit?

speaking of suit........

how is Superman going to replace his now damaged suit??

is he gonna raid the Scout Ship wreckage to see if there are any spare suits?? lol

 

[Herolee10]

Herolee, is that you?

If I'm going to complain about something, I have the guts to do so on just one account.lol

 

[DeadPresident]

Well, there's another interview when Snyder clearly stated that Superman would have been a de facto leader if he stay around and he WANTED that role for Batman. Like Batman needs to be anymore cooler.

By the time Supes actually comes back Batman'd be already established himself as the leader so no turning point from there. Let's hope he doesn't have to play second fiddle to WW as well.

Did I???

You do realise how much I want to be wrong, right?

Snyder said Superman would be the leader, but he also goes on to say "I wanted Batman to be the one to put it together". He didn't say anything about Batman being the leader, he explicitly said he wants Batman to assemble the members. I'm assuming because there'll be resistance and interesting dynamics between Bruce/Batman and Arthur/Barry/Victor/????? that there wouldn't be with Supes because they'd all just rally around him automatically.

Then he goes on about if Superman's around "He'll be put in charge" kind of automatically, but his comments don't elaborate any further.

Considering the fact that Superman was front and center for all their JL promotional material I'm going to assume they want the intriguing story elements of Batman assembling the league, and Superman will take over as leader

Spoiler

when he is resurrected

. Snyder even admits to it if you re-read that piece you quoted, he says "Superman is Superman. If he's around he's going to be put in charge because he's Superman". So

Spoiler

when he comes back

it makes sense that he'll naturally take up that mantle, since Snyder admitted to it in that same excerpt.

 

[Verick808]

all I really remember from that period was that there were multiple "Supermen" who stepped up to "replace" Superman.

Superboy ( is he the clone you're referring to? )
Cyborg Superman
Steel
Eradicator

was there one more?? I can't remember.

There was a full on clone in the animated movie. I wouldn't mind seeing Superboy at some point. I would like to see a Titans film in the future led by either Dick or Tim with Superboy as the team powerhouse. Conner and Tim have a pretty strong friendship. At least, pre-52 they did.

 

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

Snyder said Superman would be the leader, but he also goes on to say "I wanted Batman to be the one to put it together". He didn't say anything about Batman being the leader, he explicitly said he wants Batman to assemble the members. I'm assuming because there'll be resistance and interesting dynamics between Bruce/Batman and Arthur/Barry/Victor/????? that there wouldn't be with Supes because they'd all just rally around him automatically.

Then he goes on about if Superman's around "He'll be put in charge" kind of automatically, but his comments don't elaborate any further.

Considering the fact that Superman was front and center for all their JL promotional material I'm going to assume they want the intriguing story elements of Batman assembling the league, and Superman will take over as leader

Spoiler

when he is resurrected

. Snyder even admits to it if you re-read that piece you quoted, he says "Superman is Superman. If he's around he's going to be put in charge because he's Superman". So

Spoiler

when he comes back

it makes sense that he'll naturally take up that mantle, since Snyder admitted to it in that same excerpt.

The only way to get to what you're saying is with a leap of faith. He explicitly stated, he wanted Batman to rally the troops and if Superman where around he'd be the leader.

I mean, dont just read the words, because honestly they dont fully convey his obvious feelings about having Superman in charge. Watch the video. See his facial expressions and mannerisms when discussing the idea of having Supes in charge. They scream "who wants to see that?" to me. Now is that a leap too, yes, but less of one because it's matching exactly with what he's saying - he wants Batman in charge.

As far as the promotional material -

Spoiler

they knew Superman would be dead and wouldnt actually be there at the start, so whats it matter where they put him-he wont actually be there.

It makes me wish that they depower him, like after everything he's gone through he's still top dog, but not what he was. Maybe then they'll actually use him, instead of finding ways to sideline him.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I think the CW promo stuff was part of the plan to keep people away from figuring out the DOS elements of the final film. If some want to characterize that a "lie" or "misleading" in a negative or nefarious way... I can't help ya'll.

 

[Angel0fDeath]

Hahaha...I was just teasing. But seriously, I can understand being a debbie downer about BvS if yyou didn't like it. But let's not be debbie downers about JL yet. It hasn't even started filming. And who knows? Snyder may change his plans or be forced to change.

We don't know the JL plans for Supes yet. So let's just stick to criticizing what we actually have. I'm getting exhausted worrying about the future.

That never ends well.

 

[HELLilac]

Oh yeaaah. The mullet and the black suit!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, i haven't read the comic of his return in ages, didn't a clone come back first? I remember Lois recognizing it wasn't Clark

all I really remember from that period was that there were multiple "Supermen" who stepped up to "replace" Superman.

Superboy ( is he the clone you're referring to? )
Cyborg Superman
Steel
Eradicator

was there one more?? I can't remember.

No more, only these 4. And when he came back Lois wasn't sure if it's him so he started telling her some of their secrets and when she's still hesitated he kissed her.

speaking of suit........

how is Superman going to replace his now damaged suit??

is he gonna raid the Scout Ship wreckage to see if there are any spare suits?? lol

Though that's the least of out problem, it's an interesting question.

Maybe that's the reason for the black suit.. until he can manage to fix his old suit.

 

[Micromind]

Yeah.
The Superman/Batman battle really felt like a slap in the face. The whole sequence really humiliates Superman, I mean, ok I get it, Batman uses kryptonite, starts punching him, Superman gets a couple of good moments, but damn, enough was enough, was it necessary to tie his feet, swing him around the room, throw a sink on his head, make him scream in agonizing pain while Batman towered over him. Make him scream and moan on the floor.

They wanted Batman to win the fight, fine, make him win, but was it necessary to show all those scenes?

He should have shouted "I'm stiil sooupamaan"

 

[Micromind]

Nah, I bet they just wanted to make more time for Batman.

By the way Miss Lois Lane, now that you mention the "I failed him in life, I won't fail him in death" line

I'm trying to figure out the meaning. He says it while watching Lois at the grave. Is he gonna start watching her because of that vision?
'Cause I don't think Clark asked him to find the metahumans at all, unless I missed a whole bunch of scenes. That never happened, right?

I think Bruce regretted not getting to understand Clark fully, and not having an opportunity to talk to him on various things, he thought if other metahumans are out there, and if they are also as good as Superman was, he should start looking for them and give them a benefit of doubt, something which Bruce didn't do in case of Clark.

It just shows he has become more optimistic, less cynical towards the end of the movie, character progression.

 

[DeadPresident]

The only way to get to what you're saying is with a leap of faith. He explicitly stated, he wanted Batman to rally the troops and if Superman where around he'd be the leader.

I mean, dont just read the words, because honestly they dont fully convey his obvious feelings about having Superman in charge. Watch the video. See his facial expressions and mannerisms when discussing the idea of having Supes in charge. They scream "who wants to see that?" to me. Now is that a leap too, yes, but less of one because it's matching exactly with what he's saying - he wants Batman in charge.

As far as the promotional material -

Spoiler

they knew Superman would be dead and wouldnt actually be there at the start, so whats it matter where they put him-he wont actually be there.

It makes me wish that they depower him, like after everything he's gone through he's still top dog, but not what he was. Maybe then they'll actually use him, instead of finding ways to sideline him.

I just watched the video, and Snyder's focus on the question seems to be around Batman assembling the league, not necessarily who's leading it. His logic is sound considering his point of departure is "If Superman is around the league forms itself" essentially, so he wants Batman to do it because it'll offer more rich storytelling opportunities probably rather than everyone easily and quickly rallying around the messiah which seems to be what he's inferring.

Honestly a lot of Superman fans are reading as much into this as possible, I'm not saying Snyder won't do something drastic with the character, but a lot of people are jumping the gun and arguing as though they've got evidence that establishes it as absolute fact. We can argue semantics, Snyder's facial expressions and body language until the cows come home.

People also seem to be forgetting that if Darkseid shows up, the only way the JL wins is by having Superman on their side. He's consistently the JL member that is the highest priority when Darksied comes, and is usually the one to deal the lethal/defeating blow.

Spoiler

Certainly if Snyder hated Superman as much as some people claim he would've had Doomsday impale him, and then WW finds the spear and destroys Doomsday leaving Supes dead and without the credit of actually having saved the planet. Again.

While Superman may have been too much a subject of BvS rather than an agent in the narrative, it's undeniable that this story is focused completely on him. Snyder might not be taking a route a lot of fans like, but the talk of him trying to perpetually sideline Superman is a little alarmist IMO.

 

[HELLilac]

The only way to get to what you're saying is with a leap of faith. He explicitly stated, he wanted Batman to rally the troops and if Superman where around he'd be the leader.

I mean, dont just read the words, because honestly they dont fully convey his obvious feelings about having Superman in charge. Watch the video. See his facial expressions and mannerisms when discussing the idea of having Supes in charge. They scream "who wants to see that?" to me. Now is that a leap too, yes, but less of one because it's matching exactly with what he's saying - he wants Batman in charge.

As far as the promotional material -

Spoiler

they knew Superman would be dead and wouldnt actually be there at the start, so whats it matter where they put him-he wont actually be there.

It makes me wish that they depower him, like after everything he's gone through he's still top dog, but not what he was. Maybe then they'll actually use him, instead of finding ways to sideline him.

Thank you. That's what I got from watching the VDO. It sounds like I'm rambling on the negativity but to me there wasn't much room for another interpretation. He's already made up his mind that having Batman in charge = more interesting story.

I also agree with you about the promotional material.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

While Superman may have been too much a subject of BvS rather than an agent in the narrative, it's undeniable that this story is focused completely on him. Snyder might not be taking a route a lot of fans like, but the talk of him trying to perpetually sideline Superman is a little alarmist IMO.

I think Superman himself says it best.

"Superman? You'll never be Superman. Because you have no idea what it means to be Superman. It's not about where you were born. Or what powers you have. Or what you wear on your chest. It's about what you do... it's about action."

Kind of sums up how I feel about Snyder's version of the character.

But that's fine. He's not Superman in the traditional sense. It's an elseworlds Superman, and he at least has good intentions. The real Superman would give him a serious talking to though

 

[DeadPresident]

Thank you. That's what I got from watching the VDO. It sounds like I'm rambling on the negativity but to me there wasn't much room for another interpretation. He's already made up his mind that having Batman in charge = more interesting story.

I also agree with you about the promotional material.

You're both obviously ignoring the distinction between GATHERING the league and being in CHARGE of the league, come on guys, use a little bit of logic instead of latching onto herolee's brand of paranoia.