BvS Henry Cavill IS Superman - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

[matt47]

ITA that Snyder should have caught those line deliveries. Is that not what a director is supposed to do?

The facial thing you mentioned was off too. It reminded me of the facial expression Cavill had after killing Zod in MOS. Off also IMO.

Honestly don't think he cares how the actor delivers their lines. Case and point, "..But if you forge one, well then, we don't have to depend on the kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiindness of moooooooooonnsters."

 

[Tra-El]

ITA that Snyder should have caught those line deliveries. Is that not what a director is supposed to do?

The facial thing you mentioned was off too. It reminded me of the facial expression Cavill had after killing Zod in MOS. Off also IMO.

Disagree. The face Cavill made when killing Zod was so raw and heartbreakingly emotional. Acting at its finest.

The face that sticks out to me from Cavill in Man of Steel that could of used work was when he looks at the ground before gearing up to fly over to the Indian Ocean and says to Lois "...but it won't stop me from trying." I laugh at that face everytime, but Cavill really is a good facial expressive actor. He conveys emotion through his structures and I happen to really like them. Are some off? That's fair to say in the eye of the critic, but IMO, he's growing and growing as an actor.

 

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

I mean growing pains are cool and all, but how many other heroes took three movies to reach their potential? After the first it was all ok, had to get that out of the way, now the second more of the the same, still growing but not there yet, and what he's just going to bust out of the box and be all "I got this" and it's supposed to make sense. Like, what.

 

[Tony Gunk]

BvS is an extension of Man of Steel. The movie sets up Batman and most of Batman's rebirth as a vigilante has everything to do with Man of Steel, so the rules of Man of Steel still need to apply, plot wise, for things to be contained to one universe. That world didn't move on. It may have not worked for you, but it needed to be done to bring Man of Steel full circle. The ending, in many ways, concluded the Man of Steel arc and now we're beginning a saga.

No, "I'm here to help, but it has to be on my own terms" to Swanwick at the end of MOS was total Superman, that should have been the beginning of the Superman everyone wants.

Introducing Batman meant Superman became a character who was largely just there to develop other characters, especially the ever more popular Batman.

The maker's knew a lot of people weren't keen on the dark depressing Superman, but they carried it on into BvS with no real reason other than to help introduce Batman, who I still reckon wouldn't have been appearing in this film had they not been dissatisfied with the MOS box office and wanted to fast track their way to Justice League using Batman as their golden ticket at the box office (which did work in all fairness to them).

2 films of mopey Superman? It's mental, to a lot of Superman fans for sure, I'm positive it won't mean much to the general audience or to those who are predominantly Batman fans.

 

[Tony Gunk]

Oh god, if they used that line in this movie people would flip out on snyder. Judging how people reacted to the "hes hot" line in MOS, they would absolutely kill him for using that.

That line from STM works though. The "he's kinda hot line" is god awful, it's cheesy, it's cheap, it's something you expect from a run of the mill sitcom.

 

[HELLilac]

BvS is an extension of Man of Steel. The movie sets up Batman and most of Batman's rebirth as a vigilante has everything to do with Man of Steel, so the rules of Man of Steel still need to apply, plot wise, for things to be contained to one universe. That world didn't move on. It may have not worked for you, but it needed to be done to bring Man of Steel full circle. The ending, in many ways, concluded the Man of Steel arc and now we're beginning a saga.

No... I'd be so pissed off if BvS was where MOS saga ended. We're yet to get THAT Superman that people would race behind and join him in the sun. We're left in the middle of his journey where the world just accept him as the hero. He hasn't helped mankind accomplish anything wonder except inspiring Lex to go full ******ed with his killing spree. You can't expect me to be content with what we are now with the character.

Spoiler

Not over his dead body

 

[Tra-El]

That's not what I meant. I meant the world in how they viewed Superman has changed in how they view Superman. The ending to BvS proved that. That's about to begin. The arc has been handled. The story is still ongoing.

 

[mightiest_mortal]

So, If Superman is ok killing... why doesn't he just fly really high and snipe everyone with his heat vision from space? It'd save a lot in property damage in the long run.

 

[lukebrodyg]

While I like what they did with Superman at the end of this movie, perhaps it creates a huge challenge in future (potential) solo films.

After this, how do you create any real sense of threat or danger to his life?

 

[Tony Gunk]

I mean growing pains are cool and all, but how many other heroes took three movies to reach their potential? After the first it was all ok, had to get that out of the way, now the second more of the the same, still growing but not there yet, and what he's just going to bust out of the box and be all "I got this" and it's supposed to make sense. Like, what.

None, it's just ridiculous, but the only reason it has been done in this film is because he was there to develop Batman, Batman got all the special treatment in the film, which we all knew what would happen.

Still I was sad as a Superman fan to see that happen.

 

[kalhawj]

The mistake Zack made was not making him the Superman of today. Instead we get another depress conflicted Superman add that with an angry raging Batman and you have a depressing dark sad movie. They could have balance each other out had superman been showing he's the light and hope this world needs and why he did what he did at the end of the movie to show Batman there are still good in all of us. I'm not sure if Zack can do JL right. Right now as much as I love BvS I just don't think he can pull off JL to be light fun assemble movie.

 

[Tobias]

That line from STM works though. The "he's kinda hot line" is god awful, it's cheesy, it's cheap, it's something you expect from a run of the mill sitcom.

Exactly! Sorry for going back to Reeve films but truth is WB has given us nothing else to go back to for reference. SR was also about a mopey Superman who had little dialog.

Speaking of which, the scene in Luthor's lair where Lex explains his plan is filled with great Superman dialog. Sharp, confident. engaging.

It can be done - just because it hasn't in many years does not mean it can't.

 

[Tra-El]

While I like what they did with Superman at the end of this movie, perhaps it creates a huge challenge in future (potential) solo films.

After this, how do you create any real sense of threat or danger to his life?

Good, writers should be challenged. That's what Superman needs. There's still Brainiac, RedK or hell, even Parasite.

Parasite, in this DCEU, can make for a REALLY slick Superman solo film. Here, Superman now knows the effects of Kryptonite and how that is deadly to him, but a villain who could feed and drain his energy and make it into his own? That would be cool and ballsy. A lot of cool Sci-Fi can go into a Parasite movie.

A Kingdom Come-esq battle VS Shazam would be awesome as well. The possibilities are endless and there.

 

[Tony Gunk]

I'm weary of ever referencing STM because I'll inevitably be hit with that "You just want them to recreate the Donner Superman" fanboy crap that people come out with.

I don't want Donner and Reeve's Superman done over again, I want the new guy to give his own take and not do the Reeve impression Routh did, I want different stories to the Reeve films, I don't even want them to use the Williams theme again that everyone was so desperate to keep.

However, like it or not STM is a great example of Superman done CORRECT.

 

[Greeneyes]

No, "I'm here to help, but it has to be on my own terms" to Swanwick at the end of MOS was total Superman, that should have been the beginning of the Superman everyone wants.

Introducing Batman meant Superman became a character who was largely just there to develop other characters, especially the ever more popular Batman.

The maker's knew a lot of people weren't keen on the dark depressing Superman, but they carried it on into BvS with no real reason other than to help introduce Batman, who I still reckon wouldn't have been appearing in this film had they not been dissatisfied with the MOS box office and wanted to fast track their way to Justice League using Batman as their golden ticket at the box office (which did work in all fairness to them).

2 films of mopey Superman? It's mental, to a lot of Superman fans for sure, I'm positive it won't mean much to the general audience or to those who are predominantly Batman fans.

It is still too early for the world to accept and let Superman be that way though. It is being realistic in how Superman himself, the world and governments would act to everything shown in MoS and the fallout and continuation of that through to BvS events.

Saying Supes is 'mopey' like you do suggests that everything is fine in the world and yet he just 'mopes' around like a depressed emo kid for absolutely no reason at all. Surely you can see why the character is going through what he is?

And surely Snyder, DC and WB have every right to show a version of the character that hasn't been repeated before numerous times and to actually add to him and attract new fans to this character at the same time.

 

[HELLilac]

No, "I'm here to help, but it has to be on my own terms" to Swanwick at the end of MOS was total Superman, that should have been the beginning of the Superman everyone wants.

Introducing Batman meant Superman became a character who was largely just there to develop other characters, especially the ever more popular Batman.

The maker's knew a lot of people weren't keen on the dark depressing Superman, but they carried it on into BvS with no real reason other than to help introduce Batman, who I still reckon wouldn't have been appearing in this film had they not been dissatisfied with the MOS box office and wanted to fast track their way to Justice League using Batman as their golden ticket at the box office (which did work in all fairness to them).

2 films of mopey Superman? It's mental, to a lot of Superman fans for sure, I'm positive it won't mean much to the general audience or to those who are predominantly Batman fans.

And that is always be my main ranting on BvS. They put too much effort make Batfleck happen that they were willing to sacrifice Superman popularity. It angers me everytime I think about this obvious favouritism. They could have done so much more to develop Superman or at least given him the character defining moments that GA would buy. Instead they gave all of those moments to the already popular Batman and the rest to WW because she had her movie coming out.

 

[Tobias]

I'm weary of ever referencing STM because I'll inevitably be hit with that "You just want them to recreate the Donner Superman" fanboy crap that people come out with.

I don't want Donner and Reeve's Superman done over again, I want the new guy to give his own take and not do the Reeve impression Routh did, I want different stories to the Reeve films, I don't even want them to use the Williams theme again that everyone was so desperate to keep.

However, like it or not STM is a great example of Superman done CORRECT.

Like I said, its the only reference point as it was the only good Superman film done.

I always have to clarify I don't want to go back to Donner. But surely there is a happy medium between SR/MOS/BvS and S:TM.

A dark Superman was done 25 years ago and it was far better than BvS. More creative, more imaginative and done without deconstructing Superman.

 

[Tra-El]

However, like it or not STM is a great example of Superman done CORRECT.

Nobody has said otherwise...but it's 2016 and that's all it should be. An example. We're on the right track with Superman. If we're 8 movies down the road and nothing changes? Okay, talk to me then. But I believe the path, though murky, is setting up nice things. As they always say: It's always darkest before the Dawn.

 

[Greeneyes]

None, it's just ridiculous, but the only reason it has been done in this film is because he was there to develop Batman, Batman got all the special treatment in the film, which we all knew what would happen.

Still I was sad as a Superman fan to see that happen.

I think you watched a different movie to me T Gunk.

 

[Tony Gunk]

It is still too early for the world to accept and let Superman be that way though. It is being realistic in how Superman himself, the world and governments would act to everything shown in MoS and the fallout and continuation of that through to BvS events.

Saying Supes is 'mopey' like you do suggests that everything is fine in the world and yet he just 'mopes' around like a depressed emo kid for absolutely no reason at all. Surely you can see why the character is going through what he is?

And surely Snyder, DC and WB have every right to show a version of the character that hasn't been repeated before numerous times and to actually add to him and attract new fans to this character at the same time.

yeah but that's NOT Superman. He inspires hope, always see's the good in people. He doesn't mope and sulk and he's not cynical. What was the point of ending MOS like that only to revert back to mopeyman other than to help the Batman character out?

This 'version' of Superman is quite a ways away from the kind of standard version that actually made the character popular and what he is. Over the course of 2 films that ain't good enough for a lot of Superman diehard, in fact it's down right disappointing considering the last universally accepted Superman film was released nearly 40 years ago!

 

[Greeneyes]

I'm weary of ever referencing STM because I'll inevitably be hit with that "You just want them to recreate the Donner Superman" fanboy crap that people come out with.

I don't want Donner and Reeve's Superman done over again, I want the new guy to give his own take and not do the Reeve impression Routh did, I want different stories to the Reeve films, I don't even want them to use the Williams theme again that everyone was so desperate to keep.

However, like it or not STM is a great example of Superman done CORRECT.

It's a version of Superman done correctly. And very obviously only what you will accept.

Are you Tobias and others in a 'Hate Superman and WB' group on here by any chance...

Time to get the heck out of this thread. Same old same old repeating...

 

[Greeneyes]

That's not what I meant. I meant the world in how they viewed Superman has changed in how they view Superman. The ending to BvS proved that. That's about to begin. The arc has been handled. The story is still ongoing.

This is all that needs to be said

Now we can just shut down the Boards till Justice League....

 

[DeadPresident]

It's a version of Superman done correctly. And very obviously only what you will accept.

Are you Tobias and others in a 'Hate Superman and WB' group on here by any chance...

Time to get the heck out of this thread. Same old same old repeating...

Going to be about a year of circular conversations up in here...

 

[Tony Gunk]

It's a version of Superman done correctly. And very obviously only what you will accept.

Are you Tobias and others in a 'Hate Superman and WB' group on here by any chance...

Time to get the heck out of this thread. Same old same old repeating...

If you can't debate it like an adult and add anything of substance, then yes you would be best getting out.

Thanks for living up to what I said about nutters lazily throwing the trademark "You just want the Donner Superman" line around.

 

[HELLilac]

Nobody has said otherwise...but it's 2016 and that's all it should be. An example. We're on the right track with Superman. If we're 8 movies down the road and nothing changes? Okay, talk to me then. But I believe the path, though murky, is setting up nice things. As they always say: It's always darkest before the Dawn.

My point is, if I know for certain that there're more Superman movie down the road I'd be happy with where we stand right now. I love his character arc in BvS and I know it could lead to something amazing and epic if they handle his return right. Instead the only promise I got from Snyder is another Bat-centric movie.

Knowing Cavill's contract is up after JL1 just adds more uncertainty to Superman's future.