BvS Henry Cavill IS Superman - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

[mayo23]

So, there no difference between Superman and Flash ?

They're the same and different in many ways.

 

[The Guard]

But it makes perfect sense for you that he just does it to scare him. Because, why? you said he's no threat to anyone. I mean logically what y you're saying makes no sense. If he isn't trying to kill him, then why would he smash him through the wall? It's happening way too fast for the guy to know what's happening, so how could it be scary? He's not a killer, just illogical and petty. Well, I guess it's a step up from killer at least.

Because the man just held his girlfriend at gunpoint.

It's, again, classic Superman.

He didn't, in theory, smash the man through the walls. He smashed through the walls and took the man along for the ride.

 

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

which serves what purpose other than being a dick

 

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

so like as a kid when he's bullied he controls himself from lashing out, but now as an adult im going to smash you through walls, because why not

 

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

Ok, I'd like to try and clear something up. Because some people disregard criticism of this Supes by simply saying oh you just want the donnerverse-smile at the camera in space Superman, when it really isnt that at all. The emotional arc of this character was made a mess with BVS.

The logical progression of what they seemingly wanted to do would be (this is how it should have happened, IMO):

Clark doubts his place in the world helped by Pa Kent
--> Tries to hide but in the end is revealed to the world because of some heroic act (space plane disaster, whatever)
--> the world is unsure of what to make of him
--> Goes around doing Supes things but there are consequences (ex: removes a dictator but as a result the area descends into chaos-rival factions-civil wars-things like that. Or even Pa Kents story on a larger scale-he saves one town from flooding resulting in another getting swept away.)
--> public grows against him, he starts to doubt his place in the world, is he doing more harm than good? "Superman was never real" (GAG ME)
--> Black Zero event-ZOD-Krypton had it's chance-SNAP
--> "Welcome to the planet"

Thats the proper flow for this arc, and it aint the Donnerverse.



Instead what we got was:

Doubts his place in the world helped by Pa Kent
--> hides doing Supes things
--> Black Zero event-ZOD-"Krypton had it's chance"-SNAP
--> "Welcome to the planet"
--> collateral damage (framed by Lex Luthor, which honestly lessens the impact of the damage, since Clark knows it's not actually his fault.)
--> protests and bomb (again Lex)
-- > starts to again doubt his place in the world even though he's saved it once already and has a damn statue in the city
--> "Superman was never real" (GAG ME TWICE)
--> cool fight bro
--> DOOMSDAY, "You are my world" (Cavill is the man, needs to be said)
--> and scene


So, can you see why some people view BvS as a step backwards emotionally for the character? He's emotionally stunted, I mean how much affirmation does he need.

 

[sportjames23]

He's talking about the first scene with Superman, where he saves Lois, and plows through that wall while holding that terrorist.

Even though he says in the movie "I didn't kill those men.'

I figured that's what he was talking about, but like you said, Superman told Lois he didn't kill anyone. Why some don't believe him, I don't understand.

 

[sportjames23]

Funny, in my viewings it's his very first scene

In my viewing, Superman said he didn't kill anyone. I guess that scene was cut from your viewing.

 

[MrsKent26]

The thing about "the Donnerverse smile" is that it didn't originate there, nor was it last seen there. The reassuring smile is a superman thing, not a Donner thing.

The smile isn't the only thing missing, either. There's a whole subset of classic superman qualities that are being left out of this iteration and while I was on board initially (mainly because I assumed we were moving towards a more classical version), I'm not so complacent this time.

Supes tends to be more talkative in a lot of comics. But I'm sure there are ones where he isn't. So, I guess either way, Snyder/Terrio/Cavill could claim this version is based on the comics. I'd prefer something in the middle to be their aim. I don't want him to be a wordy, old windbag that just spouts self-important speeches at every turn, but I don't want a mute who's few lines are often those of defeat ("can't stay good, didn't see it because I wasn't looking," etc.). I'd like to see him have an easy charm, confidence, and a willingness to interact with others, which would display his joy at being superman despite its challenges. And of course, when these challenges arise, he would show other emotions accordingly.

That said, I don't hate everything they did and I can respect creative license enough to recognize that this version of superman is as valid (and perhaps even source material-based) as any other. I would just prefer something different and have surmised that a decent chuck of the audience might respond better to a more classical version as well.

 

[sportjames23]

He smashed him through numerous brick walls. That guy is dead unless we want to bend over backwards and give this Superman the benefit of the doubt. Need I remind you that this is a Superman who has killed before and, for all we know, will kill again if need be. That smile he gets on his face right before he finishes the guy off says a lot.
And for the record Superman doesn't later say to Lois, "I didn't kill anyone", he says, "I didn't kill those people". Who "those people" are is pretty ambiguous and muddied as that whole scene doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. I've asked numerous people to explain it to me and no one has.

This is a Superman who has killed only in the most extreme cases (Zod about to kill a whole family after Superman pleaded with him to stop and pledged to kill off all humanity, and Zodsday, who would've finished the job his previous incarnation started).

And you're reaching now with the bolded part.

 

[KalMart]

I didn't think he actually killed that guy, but it seemed kinda' brutal for Superman's first heroic act of the film.

More of a Batman move....I mean, right through a couple of walls! I was okay with it, but it was like 'Jesus, dude....bad day at the office?'.

 

[sportjames23]

But if Supes killed the warlord, why wouldn't he kill Lex after Lex nearly murdered Lois? And why wouldn't he let DD kill Lex later?

And why wouldn't he immediately kill Bats to save his mother??

Plus, if he felt bloodlust over killing that warlord, why would we go to the senate hearing?

I swear, it's like people done lost their minds over this film. They're reading it in a way that makes zero sense just to bash it.

Which is dumb--there's other, legitimate criticisms.

Thank you!

 

[sportjames23]

For anyone who's concerned about Henry not being in the Justice League movie, he confirms it on Jimmy Kimmel's show:

[YT]rho-OdAxvV8[/YT]

 

[matt47]

For anyone who's concerned about Henry not being in the Justice League movie, he confirms it on Jimmy Kimmel's show:

[YT]rho-OdAxvV8[/YT]

To be fair. He wouldn't say when asked, "Oh yeah...I'm...I'm not in it.."

 

[HELLilac]

This.

In MOS, I forgave the lack of proactive actions because it was his first day as Superman. In BvS, I wanted to see more growth than what we got. It would have made complete sense in this narrative. Even in MOS, we saw little glimpses of a more commanding superman and that is almost non-existent in BvS.

There're quite a few of that in MOS actually. In fact it's that confident & commanding Superman that made me interested in the character in the first place. Before MOS Superman's just a boring character to me.

When he stands up and effortlessly breaks his handcuffs and tells them they can't control him. When he walks with swagger sharing his plan to the army before flying off to stop the world engine. When he dumps an Air Force drone and tells them to stop snooping, that he will continue to fight for what is right but it has to be on his own term. THAT Superman is such a boss and I miss him greatly in BvS.

 

[craigaat]

I'm I the only one okay with Superman still learning how to be a hero? It makes sense to me that all the meta-humans (and Batman) can finally reach their potential when they come together as a team.

 

[matt47]

I'm I the only one okay with Superman still learning how to be a hero? It makes sense to me that all the meta-humans (and Batman) can finally reach their potential when they come together as a team.

I would be if this wasn't 2 whole years of him being Superman.

 

[craigaat]

Two years is not a long time.

 

[matt47]

It's not. But I the way Supes fights and uses his powers (and his character) in BvS hasn't changed since MoS.

 

[sportjames23]

It's not. But I the way Supes fights and uses his powers (and his character) in BvS hasn't changed since MoS.

Well, 1) how many super-powered beings has he fought in those two years? and 2) there's no way WB would let Superman fight Batman the way he did Zod and crew because the fight would've been over in 1 second.

 

[matt47]

I'm talking about how he saves Lois in Africa, it's exactly what he would have done two years ago.

 

[DigificWriter]

Lex frames Superman in this movie for the deaths of the innocents in the warlord's camp and around it. That's who he's referring to when he says "I didn't kill those people", and it really couldn't have been any more obvious or clear as presented.

 

[titansupes]

I'm talking about how he saves Lois in Africa, it's exactly what he would have done two years ago.

I was expecting a fun moment involving Heat Vision and the gun, or a super speed dash to behind the guy... But nope, wall smash.

 

[matt47]

I was expecting a fun moment involving Heat Vision and the gun, or a super speed dash to behind the guy... But nope, wall smash.

Thank you! That's what I'm saying. Man of Steel Superman would just smash through the roof and again, smash the guy through a wall.
Would've been amazing to see him super speed and grab the gun.

 

[titansupes]

Thank you! That's what I'm saying. Man of Steel Superman would just smash through the roof and again, smash the guy through a wall.
Would've been amazing to see him super speed and grab the gun.

Yup. Imagine Lois smiling and he smiling, then there's a gust of wind--Superman's behind the guy and holding the clip from his gun. A little smirk and a wink, the guy gulps... aaaand scene.

Missed opportunity.

 

[HELLilac]

It's not. But I the way Supes fights and uses his powers (and his character) in BvS hasn't changed since MoS.

Agree with this. They should have shown his power with more creativity and flexibility. Superman's power shouldn't be all about destruction and brutality and smash and bang and boom.