BvS Henry Cavill IS Superman - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

Captain America is doing that. He spent the whole of the second film questioning what his role was and whether he belongs under an authority that he questions the motives of.
CA brooded the whole way through that movie and nobody had a problem with it.

Cap questioned how he had been manipulated, he wasn't questioning himself or his values, and he didn't brood. Lol

 

[Quasimod0]

Cap's character was perfect after his first few scenes as a skinny guy. We see his motivation, we sympathize and root for him, and we get a feel of what his values are.

 

[Tony Gunk]

Exactly. I'm not sure why people are desperate to spin this thing about other heroes needing 3 films to become the characters they're supposed to be

Made all the more ludicrous by the fact this apparent arc was never planned, it all changed when they threw batman in for the big bucks. They've been making it up as they go along, and it really shows

 

[lukebrodyg]

I get that fine, I just pointed out an angle at which the question is kinda pointless. Depending on the day of the week, the movie is a sequel and or it's not. I personally thought for being a 'mos sequel' the man of steel had alot to do and was the impetus for almost everyone's game. Lots of heavy lifting at the end there but it is what it is.

I felt the same way.

 

[STARMAN]

The mistake is Snyder continues to use Superman as a plot device and not a person. Snyder continues to use Superman as a metaphor for God. They make him so emotionally detached from humanity that real life audiences are emotionally detached from him.

 

[javonstokess]

Captain America is doing that. He spent the whole of the second film questioning what his role was and whether he belongs under an authority that he questions the motives of.
CA brooded the whole way through that movie and nobody had a problem with it.

LMAO!!

You forget that he spent almost the entirety of his first movie HAPPY to have super powers and taking part in WW2. We actually got a sense of his character and who he is.

His second movie was essentially about him readjusting to the "new world" he found himself in and even then he wasn't a overly stoic, silent, angry idiot. He had moments of levity with Widow & Falcon, he was still the confident in his decisions Cap we know and he ended the movie being the Captain America we love by taking down Hydra/SHIELD.

It didn't take 2 movies to make him "Cap". He was Captain America for the better part of the 1st movie.

 

[lukebrodyg]

The mistake is Snyder continues to use Superman as a plot device and not a person. Snyder continues to use Superman as a metaphor for God. They make him so emotionally detached from humanity that real life audiences are emotionally detached from him.

While I liked MOS and BVS, I admit that this is a great point.

 

[lukebrodyg]

I don't really feel like looking to Cap and Marvel as a constructive argument for or against the treatment of Superman. With cap, without question (for me) Marvel's done a great job of showing how people, his teammates and he views himself.

However, I'm still willing to give Snyder time to flesh out the character. If you listen to Cavill in one of his BVS interviews, he talks about his desire to see the character through. I think he and Snyder have had these discussions and I would even go so far as to say they anticipated many would be upset that Superman still hasn't been fleshed out.

 

[javonstokess]

I don't really feel like looking to Cap and Marvel as a constructive argument for or against the treatment of Superman. With cap, without question (for me) Marvel's done a great job of showing how people, his teammates and he views himself.

However, I'm still willing to give Snyder time to flesh out the character. If you listen to Cavill in one of his BVS interviews, he talks about his desire to see the character through. I think he and Snyder have had these discussions and I would even go so far as to say they anticipated many would be upset that Superman still hasn't been fleshed out.

He had 2 movies and 200+ million dollars...he had his shot. I'm done with him.

 

[Tobias]

I think Donner's Superman isn't that interesting, but he is captivating. Which is what Superman should be, first and foremost.

Doesn't being captivating make one interesting?

 

[lukebrodyg]

He had 2 movies and 200+ million dollars...he had his shot. I'm done with him.

If they do indeed drop Snyder, then I feel they should also seek others for script and screenplay duties as well. IMO, if you fire Snyder then send Goyer and Chris T. packing. I largely enjoyed what all three brought to BVS (and MOS for Snyder and Goyer) but I'd rather see a complete overhaul than halfway.

And honestly, that includes Nolan.

BUT...and this is huge for me...KEEP CAVILL!

 

[Tobias]

I don't really feel like looking to Cap and Marvel as a constructive argument for or against the treatment of Superman. With cap, without question (for me) Marvel's done a great job of showing how people, his teammates and he views himself.

However, I'm still willing to give Snyder time to flesh out the character. If you listen to Cavill in one of his BVS interviews, he talks about his desire to see the character through. I think he and Snyder have had these discussions and I would even go so far as to say they anticipated many would be upset that Superman still hasn't been fleshed out.

Good points.

Cavill said several times this past year that Superman in BvS would not be the Superman we know and love. He used the word "we".

Snyder is too much a Batman fan to do justice to Superman. IMO. The Forbes article on how he loves Superman was heartfelt on the part of the author IMO and well written but .. when one has to go into such detail to explain how BvS shows Snyder loves Superman it rings hollow to me.

In a follow-up BvS interview with Snyder the author and Snyder end up discussing mostly TDKR and that reveals a lot IMO.

Cavill's interviews so far have been pre-release. I hope to see a post-release interview and what he says. Or how much he says.

 

[Nemeres]

LMAO!!

You forget that he spent almost the entirety of his first movie HAPPY to have super powers and taking part in WW2. We actually got a sense of his character and who he is.

His second movie was essentially about him readjusting to the "new world" he found himself in and even then he wasn't a overly stoic, silent, angry idiot. He had moments of levity with Widow & Falcon, he was still the confident in his decisions Cap we know and he ended the movie being the Captain America we love by taking down Hydra/SHIELD.

It didn't take 2 movies to make him "Cap". He was Captain America for the better part of the 1st movie.

He also didn't question or abandon his purpose when others made him. His conviction was solid, the way a real-life person's could be.

 

[Tony Gunk]

If they do indeed drop Snyder, then I feel they should also seek others for script and screenplay duties as well. IMO, if you fire Snyder then send Goyer and Chris T. packing. I largely enjoyed what all three brought to BVS (and MOS for Snyder and Goyer) but I'd rather see a complete overhaul than halfway.

And honestly, that includes Nolan.

BUT...and this is huge for me...KEEP CAVILL!

Me too. I don't like the absolute overload of Christ imagery and Catholicism in these films too, they really beat you over the head with it. Hopefully a new team would tone that down

 

[lukebrodyg]

Whatever they decide to do, I truly hope they realize the overwhelming support for Henry in the role and his enthusiasm for the character.

 

[Tobias]

The past several years have seen Cap become a more popular character on film than is Superman. How - by being portrayed as a Boy Scout (generally) while Superman, who is the original superhero Boy Scout, has not so been portrayed.

It belies the argument that "goody two shoes" type characters can't work in superhero films.

The failure to unitize Cavill's natural charm and engaging personality as a part of this Superman version was a mistake IMO.

Not to go back to S:TM, but what other reference point is there?

Check out the rooftop interview scene with Lois and Superman. Look at the twinkle in Reeve's eyes. Look at the natural banter. No camp.

Now imagine Cavill in a scene like that.

Engaging, sharp humor, quick witted. This is the Superman I think Cavill refers to when he says this is not the Superman we know and love.

This is what has been missing for two films now IMO.

That Snyder is this far in and has failed to utilize Cavill's natural charm as part of his Superman version is befuddling and unfortunate.

 

[Flint Marko]

There was an article/video on USA today theorizing that Cap has supplanted Superman as Americas favorite hero, or something along those lines. I'm gonna go back and give it a watch.

What s really infuriating is I think the angst y thing could've worked, but the way it's played out is it so so dumb. When your defenders are actually out saying "he'll be ready by the end of the third movie" tis safe to say youve done something wrong.

It's a poor creative choice made even worse with the execution.
"I know this is the second big budget film with Superman as the titular character but he's still not the Superman we know and love yet.

Spoiler

Also we're going to kill him off in this one. But he's still not the character we know and love."

Brilliant, WB. Absolutely brilliant.

 

[javonstokess]

If they weren't going to make the Superman that "we all know and love" then they should have used a different character.

Like I've said before: a 10 year old kid could better describe Superman than how Snyder portrays him.

 

[Tobias]

If they weren't going to make the Superman that "we all know and love" then they should have used a different character.

Like I've said before: a 10 year old kid could better describe Superman than how Snyder portrays him.

True. Snyder reportedly said years a go he did not want to do a Superman film as he didn't get the character. Words to that effect.

Its fine to be a huge Batman fan and still have done MOS but not getting the Superman character, if that reported comment is true, should have disqualified him from directing that film. IMO.

Cavill though has seemed tight with Snyder and has said he is happy with the WB/Snyder vision.

 

[STARMAN]

Snyder doesn't deserve another solo movie but Cavill does. Give him a fan favorite director and give us a fully formed Superman.

 

[javonstokess]

Snyder doesn't deserve another solo movie but Cavill does. Give him a fan favorite director and give us a fully formed Superman.

I can agree with this.

Though, I'm also one of the people who thinks Brandon Routh deserved another shot at being Supes too.

 

[Cats]

I'm also one of the people who thinks Brandon Routh deserved another shot at being Supes too.

That ship has sailed, my friend. Anyway he's doing fine as The Atom on Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow. Wouldn't want to see him anywhere else now.

 

[Tobias]

If they weren't going to make the Superman that "we all know and love" then they should have used a different character.

Like I've said before: a 10 year old kid could better describe Superman than how Snyder portrays him.

Snyder portrays him akin to the New 52 Superman. IMO.

Maybe that is all he is informed by as, it seems, he is not a Superman fan and may not have read the broad scope of source material that is out there.

Cavill seems to have read a larger set of books and seems more familiar with the source material. When asked his favorite Superman stories he included Red Son as I recall. Which way pre-dates the New 52.

Irony is the DC Rebirth is re-tooling Superman to a pre-New 52 version. More classic.

Jurgens is writing a regular book again. Following on his mini-series from a year ago which seems to have been a prelude to the Rebirth Superman.

Cavill refers to a Superman that is pre New 52 and not Snyder's version.

DC seems to have figured out comic book readers seem to want a more "classic" Superman. Too bad Snyder did not get the message.

 

[I Am The Knight]

The mistake is Snyder continues to use Superman as a plot device and not a person. Snyder continues to use Superman as a metaphor for God. They make him so emotionally detached from humanity that real life audiences are emotionally detached from him.

That is exactly the problem with Snyder's Superman, in both movies he feels more like a concept than an actual character.

 

[Baneis8feettall]

Snyder's superman is somewhere between Dr.Manhattan and Superman.