BvS Henry Cavill IS Superman - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

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When people talk about tje real Superan I can't help but wonder where I cam find this real Superman. Most the comics I ever read he was frowning. Clark might laugh and smile but generally Superman just went to work when he put the outfit on.

I described what "real superman" means to me in a previous post and it goes deeper than just a smile:

The thing about "the Donnerverse smile" is that it didn't originate there, nor was it last seen there. The reassuring smile is a superman thing, not a Donner thing.

The smile isn't the only thing missing, either. There's a whole subset of classic superman qualities that are being left out of this iteration and while I was on board initially (mainly because I assumed we were moving towards a more classical version), I'm not so complacent this time.

Supes tends to be more talkative in a lot of comics. But I'm sure there are ones where he isn't. So, I guess either way, Snyder/Terrio/Cavill could claim this version is based on the comics. I'd prefer something in the middle to be their aim. I don't want him to be a wordy, old windbag that just spouts self-important speeches at every turn, but I don't want a mute who's few lines are often those of defeat ("can't stay good, didn't see it because I wasn't looking," etc.). I'd like to see him have an easy charm, confidence, and a willingness to interact with others, which would display his joy at being superman despite its challenges. And of course, when these challenges arise, he would show other emotions accordingly.

That said, I don't hate everything they did and I can respect creative license enough to recognize that this version of superman is as valid (and perhaps even source material-based) as any other. I would just prefer something different and have surmised that a decent chuck of the audience might respond better to a more classical version as well.

What would you guys think if Supes is already resurrected in JL1 in the beginning and is living a quiet life and only Bruce knows?

I got that from a thread on Reddit.

I would think "meh." We've already seen supes living a quiet and secluded life in MOS. I was fine with it then, but there's no need to retread it.
 
Terrio/Snyder are pretty much channeling Azzerello's For Tomorrow energy, with the somber lack of smiling gray world. Even the middle east chapter where he can't actually stop humans from doing what they do.
Like MsKent said, it's all there in the source, it just boils down to preference.

There are probably a crap ton of people that would prefer a different approach to superman, probably as many as would indifferently detest it as they have in the past. That's seemingly how it goes when you have alot of strong opinions about a thing of this nature. But this whole, 'the real superman' really needs to go imo.
 
Yeah...the #notmysuperman stufff has to go. I'm hearing so many say that Cav-el "wasn't Superman at all" which just isn't true. People need to stop with the hyperbole.
 
Cav-el is my favorite superman. Even now. Because there have actually been a few golden moments in both MOS and BvS during which I saw superman on screen ("Don't play games with me General," "On my world, it means hope," "You're my world").

But, the fact that my favorite superman "movies" are really superman "moments" speaks to the idea that superman needs better writing, for my tastes anyways.
 
Yep....Snyder needs to give us more of what he's doing right and less of what he's doing wrong.
 
I thought those moments where superman was funneled though mild mannered clark while championing good journalism to a now cynical Perry white was 'great' writing and very much superman. Very much a window into characterization and getting to know who he is, what he believes in...
But all of this is simply not registered due to I don't know, not being light enough maybe..in costume perhaps. I just think there is a distinction between better and different. If only this was a an original movie.
 
But, the fact that my favorite superman "movies" are really superman "moments" speaks to the idea that superman needs better writing, for my tastes anyways.

I've retroactively reverted back to Reeve being my favorite live-action Superman. Cavill has so much potential in this part, I probably would've been less disappointed if he really was just a pretty face.

Sadly I'm almost at the point where I don't even care about this iteration of the character anymore.
 
Yep....Snyder needs to give us more of what he's doing right and less of what he's doing wrong.

This. Plus he has to give more focus on the 'right' moments. The problem with Superman character in BvS isn't because he doesn't have shining moment but because that kind of moments are short and glanced over while his doomy gloomy moments get so much focus they leave bigger impression in people mind. Like...nobody seems to notice his smile in the day of the dead scene because it's too subtle and short but people remember all the uncomfortable, miserable expression because the all happen in the key moments.
 
Yep....Snyder needs to give us more of what he's doing right and less of what he's doing wrong.

Bring in a consultant to advise on how Superman should be portrayed. Snyder does massive fight scenes very well, and his version of Batman is just the right kind of dark we need. Unfortunately, when he portrays Superman, he leans back into Batman-dark, Batman-meloncholy, Batman-anger, and while that is all beautiful and interesting for Batman, it doesn't translate very well to Superman. So get someone on board to stop Snyder when he wants to go to that little dark place again with Superman. I think people might forgive one movie of it, but if it carries on for too long, they may just stop keeping up with the series altogether.
 
For me there was no problem with Superman's character. It was the story. Superman was what he was supposed to be in BvS. He was heroic, inspiring, a hope in the darkness. People cried out for him when they were in danger. Superman was Superman, just like he is supposed to be.
My issue is story. It was just too dreary. We never got a break from it. That and I feel like Superman never really got a say. This film could have been called "Everyone Talks About Superman."
 
The world building and rules from Man of Steel still applied to Batman V Superman. When you bring Batman into Superman's world (let alone Lex), things are going to get dark. With the progression of the story from Man of Steel and the world still dealing with Superman and aliens living amongst us, especially the collateral damage and the whole "God complex" then yeah, it's natural to me that we wouldn't get the classic Superman just yet.

Clearly, by the way things are unfolding with the world's view on Superman and how he's being manipulated and framed from a different type of power, the story is dark....but you see the light and beacon of hope in Superman. The DCEU is a shared Universe now. This isn't a self contained story so I'm along for the ride. I got the bada#% Supes I wanted, now I'm ready for him to come full circle and offer more of the classic Superman, but the story must continue. I hope we get there, but I'm going to allow it to be. Continuing on from MoS, it never made sense we'd get a full nostalgic; classic Superman we all love. I'm willing to see him work towards it than just become it.
 
Dying to see all those deleted scenes.

Look at this perfect Clark Kent

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The world building and rules from Man of Steel still applied to Batman V Superman. When you bring Batman into Superman's world (let alone Lex), things are going to get dark. With the progression of the story from Man of Steel and the world still dealing with Superman and aliens living amongst us, especially the collateral damage and the whole "God complex" then yeah, it's natural to me that we wouldn't get the classic Superman just yet.

Clearly, by the way things are unfolding with the world's view on Superman and how he's being manipulated and framed from a different type of power, the story is dark....but you see the light and beacon of hope in Superman. The DCEU is a shared Universe now. This isn't a self contained story so I'm along for the ride. I got the bada#% Supes I wanted, now I'm ready for him to come full circle and offer more of the classic Superman, but the story must continue. I hope we get there, but I'm going to allow it to be. Continuing on from MoS, it never made sense we'd get a full nostalgic; classic Superman we all love. I'm willing to see him work towards it than just become it.

I'm hoping for more "Classic Supes" in JL.

But I liked how Superman seemed to really struggle here :)
 
Yeah! I mean, what the hell? At the end of MOS, Superman seems to have a handle on his powers and who he needs to be. Yes, he's made some mistakes but the future looks bright and he's confident that both he and humanity can work together for good (his last line to Swanwick is "Guess I'll just have to trust you."). Yet in BvS, no one trusts him, and Supes is just like, "F*** the haters; I don't care if they think I murdered a bunch of people."

What's sad is that Cavill really, REALLY seems to get this character far better than Snyder does. You can hear it in interviews when he talks about Superman. He said multiple times that Superman would always hold back if he came to blows with Batman because he wouldn't want to kill him. But that's not really even conveyed in BvS. I mean, he plows him through an entire building and then drops him from like 20 feet in the air. Yeah, he's wearing armor but come on.

Once again. This is why I wish the movie took place really close to Man of Steel.
 
Dying to see all those deleted scenes.

Look at this perfect Clark Kent

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This just shows me, i guess, how Snyder still has a lot to learn - or just doesn't want to adapt.

Why did he shoot a 3 hour movie, where every scene was critical in terms of flow and development - only to cut it and edit it shorter to its detriment.
 
This just shows me, i guess, how Snyder still has a lot to learn - or just doesn't want to adapt.

Why did he shoot a 3 hour movie, where every scene was critical in terms of flow and development - only to cut it and edit it shorter to its detriment.

doubt he tried to shoot a 3hour movie ,age of ultorn had a 3hr and 30 minute original cut
 
It sounds like Snyder had the okay for 3 hours but WB panicked and demanded a trim. If true, it's incredibly unfortunate.
 
This just shows me, i guess, how Snyder still has a lot to learn - or just doesn't want to adapt.

Why did he shoot a 3 hour movie, where every scene was critical in terms of flow and development - only to cut it and edit it shorter to its detriment.

Snyder wanted to release the 3 hrs version. WB asked him too cut it off because they want a shorter runtime. The problem was Snyder still kept the unnecessary scenes like those dream sequences after the cut even though those scenes should have been the first to go.
 
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It sounds like Snyder had the okay for 3 hours but WB panicked and demanded a trim. If true, it's incredibly unfortunate.

I doubt that. There was no way that WB would consider releasing a 3 hour movie.
 
Snyder wanted to release the 3 hrs version. WB asked him too cut it off because they want a shorter runtime. The problem was Snyder still kept the unnecessary scenes like those dream sequences after the cut even though those scenes should have been the first to go.

What on makes you think WB would have allowed the Justice League tease elements (which they likely mandated) to be removed from this film?
 
I thought those moments where superman was funneled though mild mannered clark while championing good journalism to a now cynical Perry white was 'great' writing and very much superman. Very much a window into characterization and getting to know who he is, what he believes in...
But all of this is simply not registered due to I don't know, not being light enough maybe..in costume perhaps. I just think there is a distinction between better and different. If only this was a an original movie.

He didn't smile while he was championing the downtrodden and their serious plight.
 
I thought those moments where superman was funneled though mild mannered clark while championing good journalism to a now cynical Perry white was 'great' writing and very much superman. Very much a window into characterization and getting to know who he is, what he believes in...
But all of this is simply not registered due to I don't know, not being light enough maybe..in costume perhaps. I just think there is a distinction between better and different. If only this was a an original movie.

He didn't smile while he was championing the downtrodden and their serious plight.

There was maybe, what, two or three minutes of this total in a two and a half hour movie? With none of it being particularly compelling or insightful? I originally said four to be generous but I'm rolling that one back. There's not really much to hang your hat on here. If this were an "original movie" without all those pesky "pre-conceptions" I keep hearing about it still wouldn't be satisfactory.
Conversely, if this were an original movie, how many of you would still be defending it so adamantly? Food for thought.
 
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If the Lord of the Rings trilogy is any example, then the extended version probably would have been much better and what Snyder wanted for his final cut. LOTR flows much smoother as extended films, almost seeming to fly by quickly and clearly fill in the story. I look forward to the extended DVD when it finally comes out. Does anyone know if it will be released when the cinema version comes out?
 
I doubt that. There was no way that WB would consider releasing a 3 hour movie.
I agree - three hours is just too long for a theatrical release. I'm cool with the special Blu-ray edition.
 
Someone brought this up in the JL thread, but I fear that it may be true.

Due to how Superman has been in two films now that has been critically panned, with people being divided on how he was portrayed, I fear like this will further distance filmmakers from wanting to touch the character in a solo film.

Hell, didn't Snyder say that he didn't want to make another Superman film anymore because he thought that superman was too complicated for him now?

It feels like Snyder, in the long run, did more damage to the character's reputation than SR did.
 
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