Hogwarts School of Witchcraft & Relationships

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

See, now there's the entire problem.

First, I'm "not aggressive enough". Now I "try too hard". Which is it, because it can't be both... but no matter what I do, there's someone waiting around to tell me that I'm one or the other. If I try to take my time with a girl, take my time getting to know her before I ask her out or make a move, I'm "not aggressive enough", if I try to make a move from the get go, I "try too hard". I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.

Was I "trying too hard" with this last girl, by getting to know her over the course of a couple weeks, developing a connection with her over some things in common which sparked even further conversation, and then asking her out because we had some things in common and mutual interests that were sparking conversation?

Last I checked, that's how you're typically supposed to go about it, and that's what I do. Despite this idea that I just go for anything and everything that has boobs and a heartbeat, I don't. With my ex, I ended up spending a bunch of time with her at a theater festival we were at because of a show I was in, and after spending a bunch of time with her over the period of a week, and realizing that we were getting along really well and had personalities that meshed really well, I asked her out when we got back. If that's "trying too hard", well then... I guess I "try too hard".

As far as calling / texting... Was it "trying too hard" when I texted this last girl a couple days after asking her out and getting her number, making conversation and asking about her, learning something else about her, something else that happened to be something her and I had in common, building conversation off of that, and then trying to make plans since her and I both had some free time? I mean, I guess if calling / texting a couple days after getting the number, making conversation, and then making plans with them is calling / texting too much, well then... I guess I "try too hard", because that's how I typically go about it.

And as far as the prom went... I wanted a date, I didn't want to go by myself. I wasn't necessarily trying to "get laid", and as far as the girl I went with goes... it depends on what you mean by "like" her. She was a pretty girl that I knew, and got along well with, so I liked her in that sense. I didn't necessarily "like" her in the "I want her to be my girlfriend" sense.

But yea, it's pretty much a case of "damned if I do, damned if I don't", because if I do try to hit on a girl / ask her out / get her number, I get hit with the "you're trying too hard" bit, and if I don't try to hit on a girl / ask her out / get her number, there's someone else saying "why didn't you hit on that girl? You should have tried to talk to her", and if I do take my time getting to know a girl before asking her out / getting her number, there's yet someone else saying "you're not aggressive enough". So I don't know what to do, because literally everything I do is "wrong"

 

[Erzengel]

Do you think it's an age issue?

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Good. Only pursuing theatre girls will kill your soul. So what kind of women do you "go after"?

I don't really have a "kind" of girl that I "go after". Yes, I have gone for theater girls in my department. I have gone for non-theater girls outside the department. I have gone for girls that I've met at work, working retail and restaurants. I've gone after girls that I've met through friends and gotten along with. Very rarely, but I've done it, where I start chatting up girls at concerts, or other social gatherings. I've gone after white girls, black girls, asian girls, hispanic girls, blondes, brunettes, redheads, girls with no kids, girls with kids, I've gone after sorority girls who are "out of my league", and I've gone after the shy, quiet "plain Jane" who sits in the corner... I don't really have a "type".

Do you have any idea why that is?

Nope. If I did, I wouldn't have this problem.

I'd like to consider myself a handsome, good looking guy, I know how to dress and present myself, I work, have my own place, have a car, I'm going to college to better myself, I'm even doing something artistic in college, I mean on paper I've got my **** together and I'd like to consider myself a pretty good catch. The biggest flaw about myself is probably that I'm overweight and don't work out like I should, but even then it's not like I'm just some sloppy fat dude that doesn't know how to present himself either.

Do you think that its really that those girls are the only ones that have interest in you...or is it that you have had tended to have the most interest in people who often have emotional issues, boyfriends, etc?

If it's the latter, then it's certainly subconscious because I certainly don't actively seek these girls out who have boyfriends and emotional issues. But I also don't see much interest coming my way from girls that don't have those issues, so at the very least, it's easy for me to believe the former.

I get that. You're someone who requires proof, and its difficult to believe otherwise when you've never experienced it.

I'll echo what several others have said; it may not feel like it, but it sounds like you might be trying a bit too hard in general. I find that romantic stuff goes better when you're not trying at all, and for some reason, relationships seem to happen more when you're not expecting them, hoping for them, planning to make them happen, and making that the focus of your hopes, but rather building some confidence and self esteem and generally being happy with yourself via the pursuit of other aspects of life. For some reason, a lot of people get initially interested and then immediately turned off by "effort". I'm sure they often perceive it as desperation. And girls who perceive desperation, especially those with underlying emotional issues, serious insecurities or unsatisfying relationships, many of them will use that to stroke their egos and to make themselves feel better about themselves, even if they have no real interest in you, or a passing interest.

My response to this is... I'm a guy... which means if I want something to happen, I need to make the move and make it happen. A girl isn't going to fall into my lap. If I want a date, I have to actively make it happen.

But half jokes aside, more importantly, is I do all that other stuff. I do so much other stuff with my life, and I have accomplished so much with my life, and I am setting myself up to accomplish so much more, and I can genuinely say that I am proud of the person that I have become, and I am excited about the future that I am setting myself up for. It took me awhile, it really did, but I absolutely am confident of the person that I am, and I am 100% comfortable in the person that I am.

Women is literally the only area of my life that I am not confident in. Women is the only area of my life where I feel I am unsuccessful. In every other area of my life, even if it took me awhile to reach that point, I feel that I am successful and will continue to be successful. I have great friends, great family, in going back to school I've already accomplished so much more with myself than I even thought I would, I've proven to myself and to everyone else around me that I have both the ability and the determination to succeed in what I put my mind to, and I've also proven to myself and everyone else around me that I am willing to stand up for things that I believe in, even in the face of some pretty bad consequences. I've spent the past 4 or 5 years or so working on "me", and bettering "me", and I couldn't be happier with the person that I've become.

The only issue is that the opposite gender doesn't seem to appreciate that, or me.

I've literally had a girl tell me she would rather be with a particular guy that she knows would treat her poorly and blatantly disrespect her, than to be with me, when she knows that I would treat her the way she feels she deserves to be treated.

That's what I deal with.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Do you think it's an age issue?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Like I said previously, there's a 27 year old in my life right now who is just as childish and immature as any of the 19-20 year olds I deal with on a daily basis, and many of those 20-21 year olds show a pretty solid level of maturity.

But the fact is, I'm 29 years old, and at least where I live, there aren't single women in my age range. For one, women in that age range just simply don't exist where I live, and the ones that do, are already long married with kids.

Odds are, I'm not going to find a woman closer to my age that is single. People are married by my age. And where I live, women are married by 24-25 at the latest.

And yes... I have tried online... and no... there aren't single girls my age in my area online either.

 

[Erzengel]

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Like I said previously, there's a 27 year old in my life right now who is just as childish and immature as any of the 19-20 year olds I deal with on a daily basis, and many of those 20-21 year olds show a pretty solid level of maturity.

But you're talking about 1 woman vs. how many girls from a college?

But the fact is, I'm 29 years old, and at least where I live, there aren't single women in my age range. For one, women in that age range just simply don't exist where I live, and the ones that do, are already long married with kids.

Odds are, I'm not going to find a woman closer to my age that is single. People are married by my age. And where I live, women are married by 24-25 at the latest.

And you've already stated how you're in your last year. I mean what would you do if you met a 19-22 who still has a few more years or even graduate school?

This sounds like a college town, and is this a place you'd consider staying in after you graduate?

And yes... I have tried online... and no... there aren't single girls my age in my area online either.

What sites did you try? When you mentioned the possibility of trying online, you'd almost sounded like it was something you were forced into doing.

 

[The Guard]

See, now there's the entire problem.

First, I'm "not aggressive enough". Now I "try too hard". Which is it, because it can't be both... but no matter what I do, there's someone waiting around to tell me that I'm one or the other. If I try to take my time with a girl, take my time getting to know her before I ask her out or make a move, I'm "not aggressive enough", if I try to make a move from the get go, I "try too hard". I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.

Which is it? It most certainly CAN be both, and it sounds like it is. It sounds like you need to find a better balance between "aggressive" and "passive" approaches.

"Trying too hard" doesn't refer to "trying at all". It refers to putting too much effort into something that doesn't warrant it.

And "aggressive" doesn't mean "thorough". It means "aggressive", or more to the point, "assertive".

You probably shouldn't be making a move from the get go. You should get to know a girl at least moderately, but that might be the first night you meet her. That might be within the hour, or the half-hour, or whatever the timeframe is.

Was I "trying too hard" with this last girl, by getting to know her over the course of a couple weeks, developing a connection with her over some things in common which sparked even further conversation, and then asking her out because we had some things in common and mutual interests that were sparking conversation?

I suppose it depends on the specifics, and how much time and energy you spent doing so, but...yes, potentially. If you wanted to be romantically involved with her, you probably were trying too hard with all the "getting to know her" before an actual date. Because if you were that interested in her, then you probably should have just asked her out and gotten to know her in that context.

Last I checked, that's how you're typically supposed to go about it, and that's what I do.

I don't know about typically. This is not how most people go about it, and so, to most people (and girls), it may well appear that you are befriending a girl, not attempting to woo her.

Despite this idea that I just go for anything and everything that has boobs and a heartbeat, I don't.

So what do you go for? Do you have a type? What kinds of qualities do you like in a woman?

With my ex, I ended up spending a bunch of time with her at a theater festival we were at because of a show I was in, and after spending a bunch of time with her over the period of a week, and realizing that we were getting along really well and had personalities that meshed really well, I asked her out when we got back. If that's "trying too hard", well then... I guess I "try too hard".

No, that's not trying too hard, that's probably more along the lines of not being "aggressive enough". It worked to get you a girlfriend in this particular case...but it won't always. In fact, this will rarely work the older you get, based on my experience.

As far as calling / texting... Was it "trying too hard" when I texted this last girl a couple days after asking her out and getting her number, making conversation and asking about her, learning something else about her, something else that happened to be something her and I had in common, building conversation off of that, and then trying to make plans since her and I both had some free time? I mean, I guess if calling / texting a couple days after getting the number, making conversation, and then making plans with them is calling / texting too much, well then... I guess I "try too hard", because that's how I typically go about it.

It depends again, on how much time and energy was involved, on how much calling/texting there was and what the content of it was, but yes. That may well be trying too hard. You asked her out, got her number, and then basically rushed what would have happened if you had gone out anyway. My guess is that eliminates some of the mystery surrounding you, and she (and other girls) would feel less inclined to want to go out and get to know you better, since you've already given it to them up front.

But yea, it's pretty much a case of "damned if I do, damned if I don't", because if I do try to hit on a girl / ask her out / get her number, I get hit with the "you're trying too hard" bit, and if I don't try to hit on a girl / ask her out / get her number, there's someone else saying "why didn't you hit on that girl? You should have tried to talk to her", and if I do take my time getting to know a girl before asking her out / getting her number, there's yet someone else saying "you're not aggressive enough". So I don't know what to do, because literally everything I do is "wrong"

.

There is no "right" and "wrong". But there is productive and counterproductive dating behavior. It doesn't sound like you hit on girls and ask them out most often so much as you befriend them over a period of time and hope it will lead to something more. Which is all well and good, but if that's the way you proceed, understand that many (most) women will not respond to this positively by wanting to be with you. It sounds like you're landing in the friend zone a lot, perhaps because you're not assertive enough early on. And if you do hit on them and ask them out right away, then odds are they're not comfortable enough with you yet. And the difference in comfort level could be them getting to know you for a few hours VS a few days/weeks, etc, where you become too familiar/friendly to them.

I don't really have a "kind" of girl that I "go after".

Ok, so you don't have a type. What causes you to pursue a woman, then?

Yes, I have gone for theater girls in my department. I have gone for non-theater girls outside the department. I have gone for girls that I've met at work, working retail and restaurants. I've gone after girls that I've met through friends and gotten along with. Very rarely, but I've done it, where I start chatting up girls at concerts, or other social gatherings. I've gone after white girls, black girls, asian girls, hispanic girls, blondes, brunettes, redheads, girls with no kids, girls with kids, I've gone after sorority girls who are "out of my league", and I've gone after the shy, quiet "plain Jane" who sits in the corner... I don't really have a "type".

What attracts you to the women you have gone after?

Nope. If I did, I wouldn't have this problem.

Have you tried asking friends, or these girls themselves, after you've either befriended them or it hasn't worked out?

I'd like to consider myself a handsome, good looking guy, I know how to dress and present myself, I work, have my own place, have a car, I'm going to college to better myself, I'm even doing something artistic in college, I mean on paper I've got my **** together and I'd like to consider myself a pretty good catch. The biggest flaw about myself is probably that I'm overweight and don't work out like I should, but even then it's not like I'm just some sloppy fat dude that doesn't know how to present himself either.

What do you mean you don't work out like you should?

If it's the latter, then it's certainly subconscious because I certainly don't actively seek these girls out who have boyfriends and emotional issues. But I also don't see much interest coming my way from girls that don't have those issues, so at the very least, it's easy for me to believe the former.

That kind of thing usually is subsconscious. If I had to guess, you might be subconsciously drawn to a girl who acts a certain way, or who has certian qualities...qualities often found in girls with emotional issues/insecurities/obstacles. Happens to the best of us.

My response to this is... I'm a guy... which means if I want something to happen, I need to make the move and make it happen. A girl isn't going to fall into my lap. If I want a date, I have to actively make it happen.

By all means, make the move. What I'm saying is that you don't neccessarily need to put so much effort into something without guaranteed return of effort. Is it making you feel good about yourself to get to know girls who (pardon my assumption) don't really seem to want to get to know you?

But half jokes aside, more importantly, is I do all that other stuff. I do so much other stuff with my life, and I have accomplished so much with my life, and I am setting myself up to accomplish so much more, and I can genuinely say that I am proud of the person that I have become, and I am excited about the future that I am setting myself up for. It took me awhile, it really did, but I absolutely am confident of the person that I am, and I am 100% comfortable in the person that I am. Women is literally the only area of my life that I am not confident in. Women is the only area of my life where I feel I am unsuccessful. In every other area of my life, even if it took me awhile to reach that point, I feel that I am successful and will continue to be successful. I have great friends, great family, in going back to school I've already accomplished so much more with myself than I even thought I would, I've proven to myself and to everyone else around me that I have both the ability and the determination to succeed in what I put my mind to, and I've also proven to myself and everyone else around me that I am willing to stand up for things that I believe in, even in the face of some pretty bad consequences. I've spent the past 4 or 5 years or so working on "me", and bettering "me", and I couldn't be happier with the person that I've become.

The only issue is that the opposite gender doesn't seem to appreciate that, or me.

And, I would imagine, that you don't feel good about that aspect of yourself
because they don't.

It shouldn't really be about whether the opposite gender appreciates it. Women at the outset of a relationship usually want someone who appreciates them and who makes them feel good about themselves anyway. Appreciating your better qualities, that kind of thing is for friends and for later in most relationships, when people start to truly dig deeper than the surface of a person.

But mainly it shouldn't be about whether they appreciate you because you can't control that. What you need to be able to do is get yourself to a point confidencewise where you feel confident in your interactions, approaches and attempts with women, and if they don't appreciate it, its their loss. That may mean changing someone of your tactics, and making some compromises about what you want or think you need, or involving what you think relationships should be like.

I've literally had a girl tell me she would rather be with a particular guy that she knows would treat her poorly and blatantly disrespect her, than to be with me, when she knows that I would treat her the way she feels she deserves to be treated.

That's what I deal with.

You deal with women.

But the fact is, I'm 29 years old, and at least where I live, there aren't single women in my age range. For one, women in that age range just simply don't exist where I live, and the ones that do, are already long married with kids.

Where do you live that there are no single women within your age range?

Odds are, I'm not going to find a woman closer to my age that is single. People are married by my age. And where I live, women are married by 24-25 at the latest.

It kind of sounds like you live in a smaller town, where people have a small town mentality. True or false?

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I don't think the age factor is as serious as you make it out to be. The fact is, as a 29 year old man, anywhere I go, single women my age are going to be few and far between. I'm not going to find a woman my age. There are 21 year olds that are plenty mature, just as there are 27 year olds that are plenty immature.

As far as what I would do if I met a girl that still has time before she graduates... well I actually have to meet that girl and start something with her before that's even an issue now, don't I? Let's worry about one problem at a time, and not cross bridges until we come to them. I need to worry about just being able to get a date before I worry about whether or not I'm going to stick around in an area I don't want to be in for a hypothetical girl that I don't even know exists. No, I don't want to be in this area, but I don't know where I'm going to be in a year, I don't know where my post-grad opportunities are going to be. I'll figure out staying here or leaving when the time comes, and I know what each possible location has to offer me, romantically, professionally, and personally.

And online, I've tried OkCupid and POF. I won't pay for an online dating service.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I don't think the age factor is as serious as you make it out to be. The fact is, as a 29 year old man, anywhere I go, single women my age are going to be few and far between. I'm not going to find a woman my age. There are 21 year olds that are plenty mature, just as there are 27 year olds that are plenty immature.

You don't honestly believe that do you? Tons of people are single into their thirties.

 

[Erzengel]

I don't think the age factor is as serious as you make it out to be. The fact is, as a 29 year old man, anywhere I go, single women my age are going to be few and far between. I'm not going to find a woman my age. There are 21 year olds that are plenty mature, just as there are 27 year olds that are plenty immature.

Maybe in this area, but I know women into their 30s single.

And online, I've tried OkCupid and POF. I won't pay for an online dating service.

Well how many people did you try and contact? Did you invest a significant amount of time into this? Like I said, you really almost seemed indignant to the idea.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

See, now there's the entire problem.

First, I'm "not aggressive enough". Now I "try too hard". Which is it, because it can't be both... but no matter what I do, there's someone waiting around to tell me that I'm one or the other. If I try to take my time with a girl, take my time getting to know her before I ask her out or make a move, I'm "not aggressive enough", if I try to make a move from the get go, I "try too hard". I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.

Was I "trying too hard" with this last girl, by getting to know her over the course of a couple weeks, developing a connection with her over some things in common which sparked even further conversation, and then asking her out because we had some things in common and mutual interests that were sparking conversation?

Last I checked, that's how you're typically supposed to go about it, and that's what I do.

Well, you really can't check, number one, because you lack experience. It's kind of like if I designed a space shuttle, then checked it and said it was good despite not knowing anything about that kind of thing.

It sounds to me in the above example, to parrot Guard, that you spin your wheels. Befriend them, never really ask them out, more or less talk them to death before finally doing something about it.

I mean you don't need a 'connection' with a date, that's what the date is determining.

Some girls will take longer warming up to the idea of dating or sex, but generally you should keep kind of an aloof distance from those girls because it's not really benefitial to you to wait on them.

That's why you should always at least bring it up. Bring up their schedule, your schedule, ask when they're free or what they're doing. Basically, outside of keeping them entertained long enough to snag a number in all you need to 'get to know' before asking them out.

 

[Anita18]

You don't honestly believe that do you? Tons of people are single into their thirties.

Maybe not in TN.

 

[Dark Raven]

Then I don't understand why you're asking us such specific questions about how to online date!

I'm sure ONE woman would have given you a chance in 20 years. Believe me, we are not that picky.

I'm not saying that, technically speaking, I haven't met one-to-one with a woman for an appointment in 20 years. However, those have, in almost all cases been with the unspoken understanding (at least from their point of view) that we were just meeting as friends to "catch up" and that it would not be leading to anything more. In most of the cases where it wasn't thought of in these terms, they were the blind dates from people online. The only other odd case was the woman I referred to who looked like a man. In the cases where I did specifically frame it in a potentially romantic light, the women wouldn't bite. You can say that you are sure at least ONE would have, but the fact is they didn't. My very reasoning is also that, statistically speaking, at least ONE should have, but they haven't.

Back several relationship threads ago, you basically posed the question of "what if you are so unattractive that no woman will give you a chance?" It's probably assuming too much to think that it was merely a question for a friend.

In the dating context, it doesn't really matter where you think you're unattractive or whether you think THEY think you're unattractive. The attitude of "no woman will give me a chance because of my looks" is the same. Even in this thread, you were trying to find validation that being a friend with a woman first is better than trying to get one to date you outright, because if you were their friend, they'd get over your looks.

Not necessarily as friends per se, but rather that, if they got to know me in person in a different context, they wouldn't be automatically thinking in terms of whether they wanted to date me or not, so with that out of the way, they could get to know me and might then be able to overlook my appearance.

Off the top of my head, you were making pretty immature (even for a joking teenage SHHer, let alone a 40-year-old one) comments about how the Selina swimsuit drawing must shave down there. It screamed of complete ignorance as to how a woman naturally looks and what women do. I called you out on it and you never responded.

And then there was that one a few days ago when you expressed surprise that Anne was getting married so fast due to physical impossibility (she's been engaged almost half a year!) and whether she REALLY wanted to have short hair for her wedding photos. When I picture someone saying that, it's usually a 60-year-old aunt who hasn't gotten out of the 1950s. If it's a man uttering that, sorry dude, total turn-off.

Well since I've not ever actually seen a woman down there (or nude) in real life or ever had the chance to ask a woman about it, why should I be expected to know what a woman naturally looks like? I don't spend my time researching that kind of thing online in the meantime either.

I do find it very improbable that you're saying that kind of crap in an initial message though. But I did find this from way back:


http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=22453963&postcount=127

That exchange was from early February.

PLEASE tell me you're not using that kind of voice for an initial message still. If you still are, I think we've found the reason why you aren't getting any responses. It sounds like you're a spambot sending an email blast to as many women as possible. It doesn't sound like you have a voice.

Also, stop at "hope to hear from you soon" because if you give a woman an out in an initial message, they think you have no backbone and then they'll take that out with pleasure.

What I wrote was a generic, catch-all example to give you an idea, but without specifics, because that would require me to actually share the messages which would involve personal information. So yes, on the one hand they might slightly resemble those examples, but on the other hand they are obviously more personalised than that and specific to each person, and so not as spambot-ish as you think.

 

[Anita18]

Well since I've not ever actually seen a woman down there (or nude) in real life or ever had the chance to ask a woman about it, why should I be expected to know what a woman naturally looks like? I don't spend my time researching that kind of thing online in the meantime either.

Not a fan of nudity in art? There's even SOME porn where the woman is au naturel. Gosh knows I knew what a typical unshaven man looked like down there way before I got to see one in person. Which IIRC was actually in figure drawing class.

It was just one of those things that made you look immature. But the Anne Hathaway short-hair-at-the-wedding-*OMG-clutches-pearls* comment really took it over the edge for me.

What I wrote was a generic, catch-all example to give you an idea, but without specifics, because that would require me to actually share the messages which would involve personal information. So yes, on the one hand they might slightly resemble those examples, but on the other hand they are obviously more personalised than that and specific to each person, and so not as spambot-ish as you think.

Even so, responding to profile information or not, that message still doesn't have one iota of personality. Women do respond to personality, not rote by-the-book "I was told I had to get to know you so I'm going by a checklist" sort of thing.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Dude, we're all in here because we personally suck at this one way or another, or we used to suck at it (looking at Anita and Erz ). I wouldn't call it pathetic.

I'm gonna respond point by point.

1) You can always make time to date if you really like a person. It's a question of whether they are worth making the time for, and only you know that.

2) Yeah i've done my fair share of 'rescueing'. I even got into a casual relationship with a guy who was just getting off of heroin, and we literally cleaned out his room off all the foil and needles and stuff, turned his furnite around... whole new start. But he's been back too it since. We're still really good friends, but that relationship could NEVER have been anything more than it was because there would be no room for me to breathe.

Obviously it's totally diff when it's just weed we're talking about, but at the same time I know I wouldn't wanna date a pot head. In fact, a guy I kind of liked was hitting on me and flirting with me and I gave him my number. But as soon as he text me saying 'Hey was wondering if you wanted to hang out at mine and watch a movie and have a smoke' I got put off. That's not my idea of a nice first date!

You wanna be with someone who enjoys the same things in life as you do, or you'll constantly be dragging each other to places the other doesn't really enjoy IMO.

If she was dragging you to drug parties, and you were dragging her to 'boring' sober fun... it probably wouldn't work very well.

3) Well that's the only excuse that has no merit. Cause you'll only stop being jaded when you fall for someone, and you'll only fall for someone if you don't let that jaded attitude get in the way!

Thanks Hopeful this actually cheered me up a little Are we all really here coz we suck at this so much?!

I think what it really boils down to is this idea that I sort of internalized from before (and I believe we spoke about it here): one of the reasons why I got turned off from dating and the whole thing was realising that before what really got me invested (and then emotionally devastated) was this utter fear of being alone otherwise, and knowing that you had to overcome that and just be content with yourself first and be there for someone else second. Especially since not being in a relationship to begin with. I think to a large extent I'm still trying to go for that and yeah, maybe being more of a HERMIT :P than before. And again of course over-thinking it but this is me opening up: I can't just go from girl to girl hoping to find happiness when what I'm really dreading is being by myself. That's healthy thinking... a little right?

But maybe I took that too far to the point of being anti-social. I dunno.

But you brought up an important point there about her wanting to drag me to drug parties. Basically what that guy of yours did is exactly what this gal said to me the first time, and I know her as someone who tends to have a wild night-life. She wanted to watch a movie the first time then get high. I told her I don't smoke and I thought that'd be the end of it, but she's persistent. From the start these are strong signs showing how incompatible we'd be, so why go for it right? Like I said before, I don't want to end up being her saviour or anything (yeah so damsels be in distress, but this sort of "battle" ? Said damsel ought to be fighting herself).

I dunno, this POF guy is just unrisky fun to me. The other guy... wow I could fall for him.

When we were at the festival, we ran into a friend of ours who has a toddler, and watching the way he was with this kid made my heart go floopy. And looking at his facebook profile, he's just into all sorts of awesome stuff, and seems like a genuinely nice person.

And i'm NEVER attracted to nice people! So this is very new to me, I must be growing up!

My friend has said she will try and set up and night where we can at least be in the same room so I can see a bit more if it's worth trying. And if I still feel good about him after that, maybe i'll message him and just see if he fancies going for a drink one night... who knows

Haha, reminds me of something Anita said about it being impossible to be turned-off by someone you already like, that even the flaws tend to look "cute." But yeah I'd favour real-life attraction over online-meet ups any day. Plus, contrary to popular belief, nice people aren't all losers :P

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Some girls really like to be the one to get a guy out of his shell. I gotta say, it's really fun for me to randomly go t: and do something silly at my fiance so he'll laugh and crack a smile, cause usually he's .

As for drugs, dependency is a factor. I'm fine with occasional pot or alcohol, but as hopeful said, being a "pothead" is another level. I couldn't relate with someone who depended on pot or even alcohol (let alone anything harder) to have fun.

And as hopeful also said, if the person is really special to you, you'll make time. Right now it's a novelty to have a cute girl be attracted to you, but you have these other things making you pause, so that's why you aren't jumping in right away.

Well she does have a rep about being a pothead and really just the opposite of me in being actively social. Maybe that worked as double red-signals on my end.

I do feel a bit guilty about turning her down though. But who the hell goes on a "courtesy date" ?! Is she attractive? Yes, very much so. She's showing interest. But am I disinterested? I think that's also the case, otherwise I wouldn't be finding all those signals to begin with right?

Er, that's not exactly how it works. I'm probably more secure with my fiance than anyone else. I mean, do your female friends talk frankly about sex with their male friends? Or hang around with them completely naked?

And what do you mean by secure? With one's body? I feel no need to ask my fiance how I look today. Whatever I wear doesn't affect how he treats me. (We've been lounging around the apartment in only our underwear since it's been so hot, so nudity is no longer a novelty. ) I do put on something nice or sexy every so often because I like the way it makes ME feel (and how it makes me feel around him), not because I want to impress him.

Well, no; sure one female friend of mine is very open about it but I've known her all my life so it's become a non-factor. The rest in general talking about sex and being naked? I wish! (or maybe not depending on the person...)

But that's intimacy you're talking about isn't it? By secure, even physically secure, I meant simply not being insecure; of the sort most people (including myself) are prone to.

 

[Anita18]

Well she does have a rep about being a pothead and really just the opposite of me in being actively social. Maybe that worked as double red-signals on my end.

I do feel a bit guilty about turning her down though. But who the hell goes on a "courtesy date" ?! Is she attractive? Yes, very much so. She's showing interest. But am I disinterested? I think that's also the case, otherwise I wouldn't be finding all those signals to begin with right?

It really depends. I'm glad that my fiance is very introverted like I am - we can spend a lot of time being together but not interacting with each other and it's totally cool. Introvert with extrovert takes a lot more wrangling, in terms of the extrovert going out a lot and the introvert staying home. There has to be a lot of trust and other mutual interests going on. Not saying it's impossible, but it's IMO more difficult.

Well, no; sure one female friend of mine is very open about it but I've known her all my life so it's become a non-factor. The rest in general talking about sex and being naked? I wish! (or maybe not depending on the person...)

But that's intimacy you're talking about isn't it? By secure, even physically secure, I meant simply not being insecure; of the sort most people (including myself) are prone to.

But you were insinuating that only friends are secure around each other, not lovers. In my experience, insecure lovers make for very volatile relationships where they fight over the most petty thing. Both partners need to be secure (or one should be willing to heed the insecure partner's every demand ) for a relationship to work out.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

See, now there's the entire problem.

First, I'm "not aggressive enough". Now I "try too hard". Which is it, because it can't be both... but no matter what I do, there's someone waiting around to tell me that I'm one or the other. If I try to take my time with a girl, take my time getting to know her before I ask her out or make a move, I'm "not aggressive enough", if I try to make a move from the get go, I "try too hard". I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.

I can relate. But maybe like TheGuard said, it's both? I think the reason behind this confusion is simple people-skills. I know I lack them so it gets weird for me to actually maintain that balance between keeping my distance and getting too close (and thus boring) when it comes to social interactions. But y'know maybe it's their fault as well? I tried "not to overthink" and realizing how much that's impossible, I'm thinking of going the extra-mile and overthinking to the point of ridiculousness. I'll try to read a girl and see if she's the sort who prefers the aggressive approach or someone who likes to take it slow, because obviously it varies from person to person (and even for a single person, from time to time).

Take that "get to know her" bit and put it in the same time-span as "being aggressive." If that makes any sense. Once you get a good idea about the kind of person she is, you'll know how to work it out.

Alternatively, you could just let go and see if something happens. Because if she's attracted to you you will be seeing signals. And I think at the end of the day that matters more, not that you're attracted to the girl but if she's attracted to you. I think reading into that would be better.

As for the being single thing, I think it goes back to my idea of being content with oneself first. So you're 30 and single, so you're 40 and single, so you're life isn't "perfect" SO WHAT? You don't need women to make you happy and emotionally fulfilled, when you do get a girl in your life you can then think about emotional fulfillment with her. Without someone special, that emotion is pretty much not there to be bothered with.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

It really depends. I'm glad that my fiance is very introverted like I am - we can spend a lot of time being together but not interacting with each other and it's totally cool. Introvert with extrovert takes a lot more wrangling, in terms of the extrovert going out a lot and the introvert staying home. There has to be a lot of trust and other mutual interests going on. Not saying it's impossible, but it's IMO more difficult.

I've always believed that and YET the general consensus seems to be that "opposites attract," that a couple has to "balance each other out" and that one should be "complimenting" the other. I think that would be a stereotypical and immature way to explain relationships. Especially so when sex is considered and it's a heterosexual relationship! Yes opposites attract, yes you can "balance" each other out and yeah you're probably going to look cute with a little asymmetry, but if you're not compatible on a much deeper level I just don't think it can work. The very reason that opposites attract is because they're compatible, sexually, emotionally, or otherwise. I think that compatibility should be the first consideration, but what we're taught is that complimentary features make for the sexiest couple, and so we have the Seinfield answer:

"She's so much like me! But then I realized I hate myself."

But you were insinuating that only friends are secure around each other, not lovers. In my experience, insecure lovers make for very volatile relationships where they fight over the most petty thing. Both partners need to be secure (or one should be willing to heed the insecure partner's every demand ) for a relationship to work out.

Couldn't have agreed more. I think my folks are a terrific example of that! I was saying that friends do feel secure around each other and that if someone just appears too sexually secure to the point of indifference, maybe it's because they are? But I understand what you're saying about lovers being secure, and yes, you're right there. You can't build trust or affection if you're insecure around the person you're supposed to love! Not to mention the dangers of that going into something abusive.

 

[knowsbleed]

It's all a matter of farting. Once you get to that level of comfortability... there's nothing else to look forward to. *kill relationship*

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Edit: Eh... emo explosion, I just need to get over myself.

 

[knowsbleed]

Your "emo explosion" is very common... realize whom you're speaking to. Your audience can relate.

 

[Erzengel]

Dude, we're all in here because we personally suck at this one way or another, or we used to suck at it (looking at Anita and Erz ). I wouldn't call it pathetic.

I think I made the comment to Dark Raven once about the difference between watching a football game and actually playing in one.

No one comes out dating swinging. We make mistakes and we have to learn from them.

What I said to Nell that just because I was nice or did things for them, doesn't necessarily mean people would be automatically attracted to me.

I had to learn that by going the nice route and realizing that doesn't work on everybody.

Dating is all about trial and error.

Nell from what I am reading, it seems like you're trying to hard. Also I'd highly recommend reading The Game by Neil Strauss. Tons of valuable advice in there.

I would not reccommend that book.

This is my opinion of PUAs and the Game. I'm sure it'll work on somebody. However, if it's not who you really are, that'll eventually come out.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Your "emo explosion" is very common... realize whom you're speaking to. Your audience can relate.

I guess that depends on if you saw what I wrote before my edit.

 

[Erzengel]

Okay I'm browsing on POF seeing why people have so much people are having issues, aside from Anita but I'm seeing attractive people on there.

There's one who made a comment about being active which I understand, but doesn't like it if you're sitting 6+ hours on the couch on Sunday and I'm like....ugh....I spend sometimes up to 12 hours depending on the games.

But maybe it's cause I live in a more densely populated area? But there seems to be a good selection of people? I know I can't fully understand as I can't contact people, just want to see why some people have trouble finding people.

 

[Anita18]

I've always believed that and YET the general consensus seems to be that "opposites attract," that a couple has to "balance each other out" and that one should be "complimenting" the other. I think that would be a stereotypical and immature way to explain relationships. Especially so when sex is considered and it's a heterosexual relationship! Yes opposites attract, yes you can "balance" each other out and yeah you're probably going to look cute with a little asymmetry, but if you're not compatible on a much deeper level I just don't think it can work. The very reason that opposites attract is because they're compatible, sexually, emotionally, or otherwise. I think that compatibility should be the first consideration, but what we're taught is that complimentary features make for the sexiest couple, and so we have the Seinfield answer:

"She's so much like me! But then I realized I hate myself."

Oh, we balance each other out. I'm not nearly as introverted as he is, and I'm much more easily entertained too. I'm t: all the time, but you really do have to work to get him to crack a smile. But generally, I think having a similar energy level is easiest.

Opposites "attract" because I think aspects of your counterpart is unfamiliar to you, but even so, it's not a hard and fast rule. I mean, my direct 100% opposite would be a high school dropout who's homeless and a druggie with no job, and believe me, I don't find them attractive at all. But generally, you do find a bit of the unknown to be intriguing.