Hogwarts School of Witchcraft & Relationships

[Anita18]

This is my opinion of PUAs and the Game. I'm sure it'll work on somebody. However, if it's not who you really are, that'll eventually come out.

Right. I was reading a Quora answer thread that had to do with PUAs and The Game. There was a comment by a straight woman who actually did research into that community and actually participated in a workshop by being the practice mark.

In her opinion, it was potentially harmful to shy, awkward men, because PUAs teach you to be even more creepy and awkward. "Touch her when you say this formulated thing" only comes off natural if you already possess that kind of seductive, touchy-feely personality. But when a shy, awkward guy touches a woman because he thinks it's what he's SUPPOSED to do, it's only makes it creepier.

That and she claimed 24 out of the 25 men in the $1.5K workshop were shy, awkward guys looking for a nice girlfriend, and the PUA workshop was only really supposed to teach you how to get laid easily. Completely different thing.

 

[Anita18]

Okay I'm browsing on POF seeing why people have so much people are having issues, aside from Anita but I'm seeing attractive people on there.

There's one who made a comment about being active which I understand, but doesn't like it if you're sitting 6+ hours on the couch on Sunday and I'm like....ugh....I spend sometimes up to 12 hours depending on the games.

But maybe it's cause I live in a more densely populated area? But there seems to be a good selection of people? I know I can't fully understand as I can't contact people, just want to see why some people have trouble finding people.

I think there was some bait-and-switch going on for one of the dating sites (definitely not POF, seeing as it's free), where they'd show you really attractive people who actually didn't have profiles on the site. You'd sign up to contact them, and once they had your money, those profiles magically disappeared.

 

[knowsbleed]

As with everything in life, there needs to be a balance. A balance of opposites to keep things interesting and likenesses to keep things civil. My last relationship had a very good balance of that. She was very outgoing and adventurous yet also liked to stay at home and indulge in laziness just enough for me not to feel burdened to always put myself out there just to please her. Our commonalities were plenty but we were always remarking how opposite we were at the same time. There was always enough give and take to keep the relationship very interesting. Too much of one extreme is a major contributing factor to relationship death.

 

[Dark Raven]

So I was doing some course today (and over the next few weeks) both to learn some things and to meet new people. At least 2 women I've messaged online were in the same class and I will likely see them for the next few weeks (and may even have to interact with them) unless they drop out. One of them had specifically turned me down online (I didn't come out with any kind of message that was blatantly asking her out but had just said hi and was very casual).

So my question is:

a) re people in person: when someone has asked you out before or you have asked someone out before, and there hasn't been a positive response and you still have to interact with them afterwards, how do you deal with it? Do you feel awkward and keep thinking that this person asked you out and you didn't want to talk to them then so why should you have to put up with them further or do you act like nothing happened? And if you were the one asking, do you feel awkward or just pretend like nothing happened or do you try to say something about it to clear the air?

b) re people online: in the unlikely but not impossible event that people you message online/ who messaged you end up becoming someone you will see a fair bit of in person, what do you think and how do you respond? Do you pretend like you don't even recognise them or do you avoid them? And if you are the one who has been asked, are you thinking "oh no, that guy over there sent a message to me online and I turned him down"?

It would be better if you didn't have to see these people again, but sometimes that is just unavoidable. How do you proceed? And in this case, what should I do about these women? Will they think I'm stalking them?

Not a fan of nudity in art? There's even SOME porn where the woman is au naturel. Gosh knows I knew what a typical unshaven man looked like down there way before I got to see one in person. Which IIRC was actually in figure drawing class.

It was just one of those things that made you look immature. But the Anne Hathaway short-hair-at-the-wedding-*OMG-clutches-pearls* comment really took it over the edge for me.

Actually, quite a few girls I know who have gotten married have wanted to grow their hair out long for their wedding, particularly for the pictures. They want to look a certain way. So because Anne looks at her absolute best with long hair (and I'm not the only one to think so - a lot of other posters think the same way too) I don't see what's the problem with commenting that she might want to do the same instead of having short hair. It's nothing to do with old-fashioned values but simply having a certain look where she looks her best.

 

[terry78]

Basically confidence, cliche as it is, does play a part. You can look like you fell out the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down, but if you can maintain a conversation and keep someone captivated, you're at least partly there.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

This is my opinion of PUAs and the Game. I'm sure it'll work on somebody. However, if it's not who you really are, that'll eventually come out.

For one, people I knew he got a lot of a**, and weren't just lying about it are few and far between, and, in my experience did not act like stereotypical PUAs. They tended to be more quiet and chill. More about the listening than the talking.

Two, its hard to verify PUA claims.

My roommate swore up and down how great he was with women until he actually became single. Suddenly these women 'checking him out' turned out to actually be very creeped out by him.

Then my other roommate slew "30" phantom women in my house apparently.

Then my other other roommate swore of his illustrious 76, yet only managed 2 (3 if you count 3rd base) in the year he lived with me. Numbers don't lie after all.

Usually I find PUAs settle for a lot of trash mining for gems. Like real dawgs.

 

[Anita18]

Actually, quite a few girls I know who have gotten married have wanted to grow their hair out long for their wedding, particularly for the pictures. They want to look a certain way. So because Anne looks at her absolute best with long hair (and I'm not the only one to think so - a lot of other posters think the same way too) I don't see what's the problem with commenting that she might want to do the same instead of having short hair. It's nothing to do with old-fashioned values but simply having a certain look where she looks her best.

It wasn't the part about her having short hair (although I think she's extremely pretty either way), it was the way you worded it. You were basically saying, "Is she SURE she wants short hair for her wedding pictures?" As if she hadn't noticed her hair was really short and wasn't gonna get long in a week, unless she got extensions.

You could have said, "Is she sure she wants to get married at Big Sur instead of a fancy cathedral?" and I would have reacted the same way. It's the same attitude.

Hence my comment about it coming from an older aunt. This kind of aunt usually says things like she knows better than you. And it's just not very attractive coming from a man, unless the woman in question is a very submissive, demure (usually religious) woman.

 

[Erzengel]

So I was doing some course today (and over the next few weeks) both to learn some things and to meet new people. At least 2 women I've messaged online were in the same class and I will likely see them for the next few weeks (and may even have to interact with them) unless they drop out. One of them had specifically turned me down online (I didn't come out with any kind of message that was blatantly asking her out but had just said hi and was very casual).

So my question is:

a) re people in person: when someone has asked you out before or you have asked someone out before, and there hasn't been a positive response and you still have to interact with them afterwards, how do you deal with it? Do you feel awkward and keep thinking that this person asked you out and you didn't want to talk to them then so why should you have to put up with them further or do you act like nothing happened? And if you were the one asking, do you feel awkward or just pretend like nothing happened or do you try to say something about it to clear the air?

b) re people online: in the unlikely but not impossible event that people you message online/ who messaged you end up becoming someone you will see a fair bit of in person, what do you think and how do you respond? Do you pretend like you don't even recognise them or do you avoid them? And if you are the one who has been asked, are you thinking "oh no, that guy over there sent a message to me online and I turned him down"?

It would be better if you didn't have to see these people again, but sometimes that is just unavoidable. How do you proceed? And in this case, what should I do about these women? Will they think I'm stalking them?

Act like the conversation never happened, and you don't need to be distant but just play it cool. If you have to talk to them be cordial, and if things warm up, that's fine. If in return they are cold when you try and talk to them, only talk to them if you need to.

 

[knowsbleed]

For one, people I knew he got a lot of a**, and weren't just lying about it are few and far between, and, in my experience did not act like stereotypical PUAs. They tended to be more quiet and chill. More about the listening than the talking.

Two, its hard to verify PUA claims.

My roommate swore up and down how great he was with women until he actually became single. Suddenly these women 'checking him out' turned out to actually be very creeped out by him.

Then my other roommate slew "30" phantom women in my house apparently.

Then my other other roommate swore of his illustrious 76, yet only managed 2 (3 if you count 3rd base) in the year he lived with me. Numbers don't lie after all.

Usually I find PUAs settle for a lot of trash mining for gems. Like real dawgs.

You live with liars... are you the hot woman surrounding yourself with ugly friends to focus the attention on you?

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

You live with liars... are you the hot woman surrounding yourself with ugly friends to focus the attention on you?

Most men do lie about that sort of thing in my experience.

In fact, statistically heterosexual women report less avg partners than heterosexual males. Which is mathematically impossible. So many out there must be skewing the data.

 

[Dark Raven]

Act like the conversation never happened, and you don't need to be distant but just play it cool. If you have to talk to them be cordial, and if things warm up, that's fine. If in return they are cold when you try and talk to them, only talk to them if you need to.

If they do bring it up, should I pretend that I don't remember messaging them (as if there are so many that it's hard to keep track)? I was thinking of taking the non-recognition approach. I honestly wouldn't remember everyone, but I just happened to remember these particular ones - hence why I recognise them, otherwise I probably wouldn't have.

And do I go out of my way to talk to them (ie being friendly as one might be to anyone else you haven't "met" before where you might introduce yourself to actual strangers) or will they wonder why I'm trying to talk to them when I should have already taken the hint they weren't interested before from online?

 

[Erzengel]

If they do bring it up, should I pretend that I don't remember messaging them (as if there are so many that it's hard to keep track)? I was thinking of taking the non-recognition approach. I honestly wouldn't remember everyone, but I just happened to remember these particular ones.

I'd admit to it, but I wouldn't make a big deal out of it.

And do I go out of my way to talk to them (ie being friendly as one might be to anyone else you haven't "met" before where you might introduce yourself to actual strangers) or will they wonder why I'm trying to talk to them when I should have already taken the hint they weren't interested before from online?

I would let them make the first move and not go out of my way.

 

[Dark Raven]

I'd admit to it, but I wouldn't make a big deal out of it.


I would let them make the first move and not go out of my way.

Well, I hope that the two girls (who I'm guessing don't know each other) don't strike up a friendship and talk and then confer with each other and say "hey, you know, he sent me a message online etc" and then the other says "hey, i can't believe he did that with me too!" Then they might both think I'm stalking each of them.

I find it odd that two people could independently end up in the same course as me, but maybe by them being there I'll have to learn to deal with this kind of situation (instead of having been able to avoid it in the past), and maybe by dealing with it with more than one person (where, in a way, it shifts the focus off just one single person), it will help with similar things in the future where I still have to interact with someone who has rejected me.

 

[Erzengel]

While Batman may have contingency plans, I wouldn't be paranoid about it.

 

[knowsbleed]

Most men do lie about that sort of thing in my experience.

In fact, statistically heterosexual women report less avg partners than heterosexual males. Which is mathematically impossible. So many out there must be skewing the data.

Guys round up, women round down.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

So my date last night has me really bummed out.

He seemed really nice. Conversation flowed nicely and we were laughing a lot. Played some pool which got pretty flirty towards the end, and even resulted in him kissing me, followed by another kiss before getting into the taxi home.

Buuuuut...

I don't find him attractive at all.

I don't know if it was a nervous thing or just how he is, but he was constantly blinking to the point where it seemed like a facial tick. And it's really hard to connect with someone when you can't see their eyes when they are talking to you.

He also had buck teeth, and as much as a want to be not shallow, I find anything unattractive around the teeth and mouth is the worst place possible... cause then you're thinking about it when you're kissing

However, now I feel bad, because by flirting and kissing him despite knowing from the beginning I wasn't attracted to him, i've probably led him on haven't i?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Like I said previously, there's a 27 year old in my life right now who is just as childish and immature as any of the 19-20 year olds I deal with on a daily basis, and many of those 20-21 year olds show a pretty solid level of maturity.

But the fact is, I'm 29 years old, and at least where I live, there aren't single women in my age range. For one, women in that age range just simply don't exist where I live, and the ones that do, are already long married with kids.

Odds are, I'm not going to find a woman closer to my age that is single. People are married by my age. And where I live, women are married by 24-25 at the latest.

And yes... I have tried online... and no... there aren't single girls my age in my area online either.

Weird... there are TONNES of single people in their late 20s/early 30s over here

Thanks Hopeful this actually cheered me up a little Are we all really here coz we suck at this so much?!

I think what it really boils down to is this idea that I sort of internalized from before (and I believe we spoke about it here): one of the reasons why I got turned off from dating and the whole thing was realising that before what really got me invested (and then emotionally devastated) was this utter fear of being alone otherwise, and knowing that you had to overcome that and just be content with yourself first and be there for someone else second. Especially since not being in a relationship to begin with. I think to a large extent I'm still trying to go for that and yeah, maybe being more of a HERMIT than before. And again of course over-thinking it but this is me opening up: I can't just go from girl to girl hoping to find happiness when what I'm really dreading is being by myself. That's healthy thinking... a little right?

But maybe I took that too far to the point of being anti-social. I dunno.

Believe me, i'm the same. And TBH, I have turned a bit anti social. I am way too into my me time now.

The only reason i'm continuing to try isn't because i'm afraid of being alone. The idea of being old and still single doesn't frighten me at all anymore. In fact, i've sort of come to peace with it as a very real possibility.

It's just this sense that i'm missing out on something. That perhaps there is a feeling that I could be experiencing that would make my life fuller. You know... Love.

But you brought up an important point there about her wanting to drag me to drug parties. Basically what that guy of yours did is exactly what this gal said to me the first time, and I know her as someone who tends to have a wild night-life. She wanted to watch a movie the first time then get high. I told her I don't smoke and I thought that'd be the end of it, but she's persistent. From the start these are strong signs showing how incompatible we'd be, so why go for it right? Like I said before, I don't want to end up being her saviour or anything (yeah so damsels be in distress, but this sort of "battle" ? Said damsel ought to be fighting herself).

Yeah it defo sounds like you made the right call staying away from that one

Haha, reminds me of something Anita said about it being impossible to be turned-off by someone you already like, that even the flaws tend to look "cute." But yeah I'd favour real-life attraction over online-meet ups any day. Plus, contrary to popular belief, nice people aren't all losers

This is very true. It's just so rare to find a nice guy who is also cool!!!

Okay I'm browsing on POF seeing why people have so much people are having issues, aside from Anita but I'm seeing attractive people on there.

There's one who made a comment about being active which I understand, but doesn't like it if you're sitting 6+ hours on the couch on Sunday and I'm like....ugh....I spend sometimes up to 12 hours depending on the games.

But maybe it's cause I live in a more densely populated area? But there seems to be a good selection of people? I know I can't fully understand as I can't contact people, just want to see why some people have trouble finding people.

There are plenty out there, but that doesn't mean they are going to message you or respond to your message unfortunately.

 

[knowsbleed]

Eh, so you weren't attracted. You were curious though and probably wanted to see if a kiss would ignite any sort of sparks. Obviously, the intimacy hasn't changed your mind too much but I wouldn't consider that "leading him on". You were just testing the waters. How did you two meet?

 

[Anita18]

So my date last night has me really bummed out.

He seemed really nice. Conversation flowed nicely and we were laughing a lot. Played some pool which got pretty flirty towards the end, and even resulted in him kissing me, followed by another kiss before getting into the taxi home.

Buuuuut...

I don't find him attractive at all.

I don't know if it was a nervous thing or just how he is, but he was constantly blinking to the point where it seemed like a facial tick. And it's really hard to connect with someone when you can't see their eyes when they are talking to you.

He also had buck teeth, and as much as a want to be not shallow, I find anything unattractive around the teeth and mouth is the worst place possible... cause then you're thinking about it when you're kissing

However, now I feel bad, because by flirting and kissing him despite knowing from the beginning I wasn't attracted to him, i've probably led him on haven't i?

Hey, didn't you say you wanted someone who was less attractive than you?

Although yeah, it would a problem if they were so unattractive that you weren't attracted to them....

Also, I have extremely dry eyes and I blink a lot. What's funny is that I saw my cousin whom I hadn't seen in years and years, and he does the same thing. It's apparently some kind of genetic defect on my dad's side.

 

[Dark Raven]

So my date last night has me really bummed out.

He seemed really nice. Conversation flowed nicely and we were laughing a lot. Played some pool which got pretty flirty towards the end, and even resulted in him kissing me, followed by another kiss before getting into the taxi home.

Buuuuut...

I don't find him attractive at all.

I don't know if it was a nervous thing or just how he is, but he was constantly blinking to the point where it seemed like a facial tick. And it's really hard to connect with someone when you can't see their eyes when they are talking to you.

He also had buck teeth, and as much as a want to be not shallow, I find anything unattractive around the teeth and mouth is the worst place possible... cause then you're thinking about it when you're kissing

However, now I feel bad, because by flirting and kissing him despite knowing from the beginning I wasn't attracted to him, i've probably led him on haven't i?

I don't get why you then flirted with him and kissed him if you didn't feel any attraction and especially if you could see he had buck teeth (which you would've been thinking about when kissing him). I don't see that kissing is a prerequisite of all dates, no matter how they go or whether you find the person attractive or not.

If you didn't find him attractive, you could've just friendzoned him early on. Surely you saw his teeth and his facial tick from an early stage, and not in the closing moments of the date when, after kissing and flirting, suddenly you realised, horror of horrors, "oh no, what is that thing I never noticed before?"

 

[terry78]

Oh Hopeful, have you ever opened a can of worms up in here.

 

[Erzengel]

So my date last night has me really bummed out.

He seemed really nice. Conversation flowed nicely and we were laughing a lot. Played some pool which got pretty flirty towards the end, and even resulted in him kissing me, followed by another kiss before getting into the taxi home.

Buuuuut...

I don't find him attractive at all.

I don't know if it was a nervous thing or just how he is, but he was constantly blinking to the point where it seemed like a facial tick. And it's really hard to connect with someone when you can't see their eyes when they are talking to you.

He also had buck teeth, and as much as a want to be not shallow, I find anything unattractive around the teeth and mouth is the worst place possible... cause then you're thinking about it when you're kissing

However, now I feel bad, because by flirting and kissing him despite knowing from the beginning I wasn't attracted to him, i've probably led him on haven't i?

Yeah, you kinda put yourself in a bad spot. But hey I ended up in a relationship with someone who I probably was settling for, luckily for some reason I was dumped...but...

You might have to have an awkward conversation about yeah..sorry, I'm not really into you....

Or you could totally ignore him and just give him a complex. "But, but...we kissed!? "

 

[Nave 'Torment']

I think I made the comment to Dark Raven once about the difference between watching a football game and actually playing in one.

No one comes out dating swinging. We make mistakes and we have to learn from them.

What I said to Nell that just because I was nice or did things for them, doesn't necessarily mean people would be automatically attracted to me.

I had to learn that by going the nice route and realizing that doesn't work on everybody.

Dating is all about trial and error.

True. Very much so. Some people are just good at it naturally, maybe it's because they've had a better upbringing surrounded by people? People-skills are important for any thing and I truly believe that some of the reasons why I've failed at securing a good gal has been because of my utter lack of people-skills.

Though that isn't a reason to stop trying.

Oh, we balance each other out. I'm not nearly as introverted as he is, and I'm much more easily entertained too. I'm t: all the time, but you really do have to work to get him to crack a smile. But generally, I think having a similar energy level is easiest.

Opposites "attract" because I think aspects of your counterpart is unfamiliar to you, but even so, it's not a hard and fast rule. I mean, my direct 100% opposite would be a high school dropout who's homeless and a druggie with no job, and believe me, I don't find them attractive at all. But generally, you do find a bit of the unknown to be intriguing.

Exactly. You don't really need to go a complete 180 but I think knowsbleed gave a better answer...

As with everything in life, there needs to be a balance. A balance of opposites to keep things interesting and likenesses to keep things civil. My last relationship had a very good balance of that. She was very outgoing and adventurous yet also liked to stay at home and indulge in laziness just enough for me not to feel burdened to always put myself out there just to please her. Our commonalities were plenty but we were always remarking how opposite we were at the same time. There was always enough give and take to keep the relationship very interesting. Too much of one extreme is a major contributing factor to relationship death.

THIS. The point isn't that you should let your other balance you out, you need that balance in yourself first. Then you find someone with a similar kind of balance. It works out. The relationship endures. There's no inter-dependence on a social or emotional level because what makes you stick together isn't a balance, it's the sheer feeling you have for that other person, because you give a damn about them, because you care. Not because they're what makes you functioning and normal, but coz you're in love with them. Balance is function. I guess I'm still idealistic when it comes to love, but with things like emotions you do need to do that.

While Batman may have contingency plans, I wouldn't be paranoid about it.

I don't think Batman cares to have contingency plans for his romantic life or maybe the Don Juan public-persona is an immensely good barrier for his commitment issues.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

So my date last night has me really bummed out.

He seemed really nice. Conversation flowed nicely and we were laughing a lot. Played some pool which got pretty flirty towards the end, and even resulted in him kissing me, followed by another kiss before getting into the taxi home.

Buuuuut...

I don't find him attractive at all.

I don't know if it was a nervous thing or just how he is, but he was constantly blinking to the point where it seemed like a facial tick. And it's really hard to connect with someone when you can't see their eyes when they are talking to you.

He also had buck teeth, and as much as a want to be not shallow, I find anything unattractive around the teeth and mouth is the worst place possible... cause then you're thinking about it when you're kissing

However, now I feel bad, because by flirting and kissing him despite knowing from the beginning I wasn't attracted to him, i've probably led him on haven't i?

Well considering the fact that it was a first-date, you'd think he was moving too fast? Even if he wasn't you could politely use that as a reason to not keep it up if you ever talk to him again. If you don't find him attractive then there's no point is there? You're certainly not obligated.

Believe me, i'm the same. And TBH, I have turned a bit anti social. I am way too into my me time now.

The only reason i'm continuing to try isn't because i'm afraid of being alone. The idea of being old and still single doesn't frighten me at all anymore. In fact, i've sort of come to peace with it as a very real possibility.

It's just this sense that i'm missing out on something. That perhaps there is a feeling that I could be experiencing that would make my life fuller. You know... Love.

Exactly the death of us all. That last paragraph.

Yeah it defo sounds like you made the right call staying away from that one

This is very true. It's just so rare to find a nice guy who is also cool!!!

Heh. Well going back to the idea of "feeling obligated" I think I do feel a little towards this girl; she was telling me what I was doing this weekend again and I told her I had to take my mom to the doctor's, but that's also because I have to.

Maybe i am missing out, maybe I am more focused on me time these days. Maybe it is a barrier. But then again, everything doesn't have to perfect.

 

[Erzengel]

True. Very much so. Some people are just good at it naturally, maybe it's because they've had a better upbringing surrounded by people? People-skills are important for any thing and I truly believe that some of the reasons why I've failed at securing a good gal has been because of my utter lack of people-skills.

I was painfully shy when I was younger. My parents were very outgoing as was my sister. It just something I kind of grew out of.

How do you lack people-skills? I guess I'm looking for examples.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Yeah, you kinda put yourself in a bad spot. But hey I ended up in a relationship with someone who I probably was settling for, luckily for some reason I was dumped...but...

You might have to have an awkward conversation about yeah..sorry, I'm not really into you....

Or you could totally ignore him and just give him a complex. "But, but...we kissed!? "

No. No. NO don't give poor blinking-buck-teeth-guy a complex. Have that awkward conversation. At least you two went out on a date. I'm trying to tell pothead-girl we could be friends but not hang out together.