The Dark Knight Rises How does TDKR make you feel? How do you feel about TDKR? Hate it?

[Schlosser85]

"Hi, I'm Wanda. Wanda Al Ghul."

And yea, there's never any indication Blake has any training besides basic cop stuff. Bruce may have just ran off to Italy with his girlfriend and left his number one fanboy to die a gruesome death at the hands of some Gotham psycho about half an hour after the end of the movie.

 

[BatLobster]

How about all those "Nolan will never introduce or hint at Robin, he's in a baby carriage somewhere". Yeah, a baby carriage at St. Swithens!

*Ahem*

Technically Nolan said Dick Grayson was in a crib somewhere. Which would put him at about 9 years old at the time of TDKR.

Spoiler

"Hi, I'm Wanda. Wanda Al Ghul."

And yea, there's never any indication Blake has any training besides basic cop stuff. Bruce may have just ran off to Italy with his girlfriend and left his number one fanboy to die a gruesome death at the hands of some Gotham psycho about half an hour after the end of the movie.

Nor is there any indication that he'd be going out there immediately (why would he need to anyway?). He's roughly Bruce's age at the time Bruce left Gotham. Plenty of time to train.

 

[Human Torch]

Eh. I wouldn't go so far as to say Blake was Robin. More like he was the closest Nolan was ever willing to get to Robin with a ten foot pole.

He was a nod to Robin, not literally Robin.

That's what I mean about quibbling,though.As far as Nolan was concerned,Blake WAS Robin,'cause he had no use for the actual comic version.Same as Killian WAS the Mandarin as far as Black was concerned,'cause he hated the comic character.

6 of one,half a dozen of the other.

 

[milost]

I also remember this guy who claimed to have the script and was babbling in lengthy detail about Bane's "earthquake machine", how Gotham actually gets leveled at the end of the movie, etc.

Oh, and Foley is working for Bane and murders Blake, and Miranda/Talia kills Lucius Fox.

And there were also three different endings filmed or whatever.

I still think there's more to the end than meets the eye though, behind the scenes anyway. That shot of Batman on the bridge in the movie before he meets up with Selina just seems so pointless. It's almost frivolous in a sense. Why is he there before he goes down in the sewers?

Seems like a lot of work for what amounts to a few seconds for a trailer.

It's not even described in the "final script". Makes me wonder if there was a different shooting script completely, possibly with a different ending. Or maybe they filmed Batman just finishing up his gasoline masterpiece before he saves everyone.

 

[BatLobster]

According to Jonah Nolan, it's a nod.

There's an obvious place for an audience surrogate/son figure in the Batman mythos. They chose not to use a costumed sidekick to fill that role, instead using their own original character that had different aspects of the various Robins, and then tipped their hat to the icon of Robin with the shout out at the end.

I thought it was a nice gesture.

 

[Schlosser85]

According to Jonah Nolan, it's a nod.

There's an obvious place for an audience surrogate/son figure in the Batman mythos. They chose not to use a costumed sidekick to fill that role, instead using their own original character that had different aspects of the various Robins, and then tipped their hat to the icon of Robin with the shout out at the end.

I thought it was a nice gesture.

Agreed.

 

[milost]

Nor is there any indication that he'd be going out there immediately (why would he need to anyway?). He's roughly Bruce's age at the time Bruce left Gotham. Plenty of time to train.

With who? LoS 3.0?

 

[shauner111]

He has time to train just like Bruce did when he was in his 20's.

I think (well,at least IMO) the characters should stay "frozen in time" so to speak.I mean,that's why I wasn't a big fan of Batman Beyond.I don't ever really wonder what Batman would do when he gets too old to be Batman.To me,he'll always be 40-ish.

Another reason I'm so impressed with the BF Robin,is because I'm doubtful we'll ever get the whole "Circus tragedy" angle in another film version.I think chances are they'll steer clear of Robin and go straight to Nightwing at this point.

Yeah the circus was done fine. I dont think we'll see it on film either. At least not for a long time.

I literally face palmed when he said his name was Robin. I almost stood up and shouted "are you kidding me?!?".

Why? It's just a nod to the character for the fans. He's not literally Robin, what's the big deal.

Sure, he's influenced by elements of Dick Grayson and Tim Drake. That's obvious. But he's not Robin. Like John Campea from AMC said, he's not 10 years old or some teenager, he doesn't get adopted by Bruce Wayne, his parents weren't circus performers, his name is different, he's like 25 or older, he's not actually Robin. He becomes Batman.

*Ahem*

Technically Nolan said Dick Grayson was in a crib somewhere. Which would put him at about 9 years old at the time of TDKR.

He could have been like a year old in TDK, making him close to 10 in TDKR.....

HMMMMMMMMM...

 

[shauner111]

With who? LoS 3.0?

So the league of shadows are the only people who can train individuals to become martial artists/ninjas?

 

[BatLobster]

Yeah, I guess without Liam Neeson all aspiring heroes are truly doomed.

PS, everyone go see The Lego Movie. Everything is awesome!

 

[milost]

So the league of shadows are the only people who can train individuals to become martial artists/ninjas?

Here we go again.


I remember when I mentioned that Bruce was training for years before he met Ducard, and I believe it was you (or coulda been Lobster) was like "eh, he was lost. He didn't find himself and got all the important training till he met Ra's". Now you don't feel that way? Maaaaaan. Flip, flop, flip, flop.


Maybe he goes out and finds this guy, Roger Ghul. Whoever the hell he was.

 

[Green Goblin]

So the league of shadows are the only people who can train individuals to become martial artists/ninjas?

He's going to join Justice League.

Just make sure it's not Snyder's Superman doing it because he might forget the not killing part

 

[shauner111]

Here we go again.


I remember when I mentioned that Bruce was training for years before he met Ducard, and I believe it was you (or coulda been Lobster) was like "eh, he was lost. He didn't find himself and get all the important training till he met Ra's". Now you don't feel that way? Maaaaaan. Flip, flop, flip, flop.


Maybe he goes out and finds this guy, Roger Ghul. Whoever the hell he was.

I dont know what you mean. What does that have to do with this? Bruce was lost, he didn't get the important training til he met Ras, correct. Ras gave him the tools to be Batman. But Ras is the head of one ninja organization. Im sure there are many others who specialize in training people to become ninjas , not just Ras. Blake will be his own Batman anyway since he's his own person.

 

[milost]

I dont know what you mean. What does that have to do with this? Bruce was lost, he didn't get the important training til he met Ras, correct. Ras gave him the tools to be Batman. But Ras is the head of one ninja organization. Im sure there are many others who specialize in training people to become ninjas , not just Ras. Blake will be his own Batman anyway since he's his own person.

There's more than one super secret Ninja organization!

You're a trip Shauner! Yeah, because Blake is just rolling in money, has a butler to come pick him up when he's done, and there's an organization out there that is interested in the little, insignificant orphan turned cop named "Robin John Blake". Remember, Ducard scoped BRUCE out. He was the prince of Gotham, the League was following him closely. If Ra's hadn't come to him, Bruce might have been in that prison forever.

Blake's going to know to "travel the world" when he has all that gear? Who is going to seek out Blake for training?

That's why leaving off with that is stupid. Blake is a goner. If anything, instead of doing that lame Italy subplot, you could have had Bruce still around and taking Blake in as a sort of protege. "Oh, you're disillusioned with the police. I can help you". Bruce could be the "good Ducard". That would have been better than, "here's the GPS, here's my stuff". To be this Batman, you had to go to LoS training camp for a bit up in the mountains to learn how to disappear and reappear AND to walk on ice.

 

[BatLobster]

Here we go again.


I remember when I mentioned that Bruce was training for years before he met Ducard, and I believe it was you (or coulda been Lobster) was like "eh, he was lost. He didn't find himself and get all the important training till he met Ra's". Now you don't feel that way? Maaaaaan. Flip, flop, flip, flop.

Of course he got martial arts training before Ra's, I've always argued that to people who said Bruce didn't spend enough time training in BB. But he was lost and Ra's helped him direct his anger and showed him the importance of becoming a symbol. Something Bruce talks about with Blake in the film, though Blake already understands and values the symbol of Batman.

Blake just really needs to train his body more than anything. He could find himself a kung fu instructor in Gotham for all I care.

But if you're the one saying that Ra's isn't essential, then who's flip flopping?

 

[shauner111]

There's more than one super secret Ninja organization!

You're a trip Shauner! Yeah, because Blake is just rolling in money, has a butler to come pick him up when he's done, and there's an organization out there that is interested in the little, insignificant orphan turned cop named "Robin John Blake". Remember, Ducard scoped BRUCE out. He was the prince of Gotham, the League was following him closely. If Ra's hadn't come to him, Bruce might have been in that prison forever.

Blake's going to know to "travel the world" when he has all that gear? Who is going to seek out Blake for training?

That's why leaving off with that is stupid. Blake is a goner. If anything, instead of doing that lame Italy subplot, you could have had Bruce still around and taking Blake in as a sort of protege. "Oh, you're disillusioned with the police. I can help you". Bruce could be the "good Ducard". That would have been better than, "here's the GPS, here's my stuff". To be this Batman, you had to go to LoS training camp for a bit up in the mountains to learn how to disappear and reappear AND to walk on ice.

Ducard scoped Bruce out. That was their way. How do people in the world become martial artists? Hmmm, i wonder? Ras apparently has the only ninja teaching place on earth? Huh! News to me.

Ever hear of Blake seeking it out for himself? I guess you think he has to do every single thing like Bruce..

 

[milost]

Bruce knew MMA before Ra's. Look where that got him. That was one of the old discussions we had and the point I was trying to make, then you threw it in my face that Bruce learned more with Ra's and needed him to further his training to be Batman, to find himself.

But now, Blake doesn't need that. He can find a different way to find get what he needs. How convenient.

 

[shauner111]

It seems like Bruce learnt the basics on his own. The different moves he gives to Ras in the temple. But he gets deep into it with the League. The main thing there was to show him theatricality and a path for himself. The training was actually the last thing he needed. "Training is nothing, will is everything". Blake isn't as lost, he's got the "will" down, he just needs to train his body like Lobster says. He doesnt need the League of Shadows, he need s a master of martial arts. He has plenty of months, years, to seek that out for himself. He'll do it in a different way from Bruce, because he is not Bruce Wayne.

 

[milost]

Of course he got martial arts training before Ra's, I've always argued that to people who said Bruce didn't spend enough time training in BB. But he was lost and Ra's helped him direct his anger and showed him the importance of becoming a symbol. Something Bruce talks about with Blake in the film, though Blake already understands and values the symbol of Batman.

Blake just really needs to train his body more than anything. He could find himself a kung fu instructor in Gotham for all I care.

But if you're the one saying that Ra's isn't essential, then who's flip flopping?

Takin' my material I see!

If Robin John Blake survives being hanged by his backpack which triggers the platform to lower back down, drowning him, then I think it's more plausible that Bruce Wayne anticipated Robin coming into the batcave and programmed his brain algorithms into the batcomputer to create a virtual training simulation for him.

That's more plausible than, "he learned kung fu to be Batman from the instructor who also has a part time job at the Chinese restaurant on the corner in the back".

 

[BatLobster]

Had to do it haha, that gif never gets old no matter who uses it.

But alright guys, I'm retiring for the night for some V-Day festivities with the missus. No more unhealthy TDKR discussion for me tonight.

 

[milost]

Give her a kiss from Milost.

 

[shauner111]

Bruce knew MMA before Ra's. Look where that got him. That was one of the old discussions we had and the point I was trying to make, then you threw it in my face that Bruce learned more with Ra's and needed him to further his training to be Batman, to find himself.

But now, Blake doesn't need that. He can find a different way to find get what he needs. How convenient.

And i stand by that. But what does that have to do with anything? LOL. He's not Bruce Wayne, Ras isn't the only teacher on the planet. Blake doesn't need to go through the same thing in order to be Batman, he just needs training. His own. It has to be that way anyway because the old league of shadows are dead.

 

[Schlosser85]

While I agree that it's a little flimsy that Blake just gets left with the Batcave, why is it so hard to believe that he just takes martial arts classes (surely a big city like Gotham has any number of locations for those?)?

It doesn't make him "Batman" in and of itself--if that's exactly what he's even trying to be---but it's a start.

He has Batman's armor, weapons, etc. He can take fight classes. Other things, he'll learn from experience and time....if he survives that long.

Blake isn't Bruce, so Bruce's means of training aren't really relevant to Blake's future.

 

[shauner111]

Give her a kiss from Milost.

 

[shauner111]

While I agree that it's a little flimsy that Blake just gets left with the Batcave, why is it so hard to believe that he just takes martial arts classes (surely a big city like Gotham has any number of locations for those?)?

It doesn't make him "Batman" in and of itself--if that's exactly what he's even trying to be---but it's a start.

He has Batman's armor, weapons, etc. He can take fight classes. Other things, he'll learn from experience and time....if he survives that long.

Blake isn't Bruce, so Bruce's means of training aren't really relevant to Blake's future.

Exactly.