The Dark Knight Rises How smart is nolan's batman?

[CrimsonDeath]

The guy made his own giant spy computer..... let's not pretend that taking technology from a little cell phone and enhancing it with a super computer (built singlehandedly, it seems---Fox was COMPLETELY in the dark about it) isn't a major accomplishment. That kind of thing is beyond anyone posting here and beyond 99% of people living in the real world.

Exactly and agreed.

 

[Godzilla2014]

If you'talking about the never can fail, deus ex machina, "I'm Batman; I can plan for anything..." perfectionist Batman.

This is a believable Batman, and he's still very intelligtent. He built that city-wide sonar system that even Lucuis was surprised about.

To a degree, I agree with you. I like Batman to not know everything about crime-fighting when he starts out. For example, I loved how he was thrown for a loop by Joker's atypicality in The Dark Knight, and he couldn't figure out immediately. He made assumptions that Joker was after material gain, like most criminals are, and that assumption is proven wrong.
I like a Batman who still has things to learn from experience when he first puts on the cowl.

No way Batman Begins (or TDK) could realistically explain how he'd be an expert at fighting, detecting, chemistry, engineering, biology, genetics, physics, precognition, baking, window cleaning, car salesmanship, Klingon, Mega Man 2, and Godslaying like he can in the comics...

I think Nolanverse Batman's skills and intelligence is just right.

Pretty much. I can buy that Batman would be an expert at things directly related to his crimefighting crusade, like martial arts, detective work, tactical/strategic skills, et cetera. But when he can build the Batmobile, the perfect vehicle for a one-man war on crime by himself, that really starts to stretch what he should be capable of, depending on the tone of the work in question.

 

[seifergt]

Meh, it's hard to convey how great of an intellect, fighter, tactician, detective and just general Bad A** Batman has been in the comics when you only get two movies, and time in that has to be devoted to other character's development etc. Yea, a little bit more could have been done in the movies, but given the "reality" tone and ridiculously high bar I don't think he is going to be as smart as the comic version.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Even the comic book version started out using vehicles and equipment from his own company.....

I am guessing though later on he did learn to upgrade his own stuff by himself, and perhaps we'll get some of that this time around after the Mr. Reese incident from last time.

In the comics he also had help from Harold, a deformed man that lived in the caves and who was killed in the Hush storyline.

In these movies, he has shown to be very inventive with the technology he uses, like the sonar machine near the end of TDK. I do agree that the movies could show even more forensic detective work, but what has been shown has been properly done and enough for me.

What issue is that!?

 

[DRMRSIR]

having actually been a detective...
i'll say even detectives don't do that much detective work anymore

pretty much everything is computer based
lot's of work is done for you

 

[ThePhantasm]

The Batman in Nolan's film is smart in that he is adaptable. He rises to meet any challenge. It doesn't mean he is unrealistically prepared for everything (at least, not yet) but he always finds a way to beat it, and quickly.

He's been learning for the past two movies. I'm hoping now to see more of a fully formed crime fighter in this one, batcave and all. I don't want him ready for everything, but the Joker's rise should have changed him to some extent - he needs to have really grown from that experience.

 

[Dark Raven]

The guy made his own giant spy computer, he DID make things in the cave in the first film (which the OP seems to ignore), etc. People who use this argument that Nolan's Batman isn't smart also ignore the subtle little details that show his detective work without blatantly putting him in a Sherlock Holmes hat and playing with beakers, such as knowing who Thomas Schiff was when he confronted an angry Harvey Dent. He'd obviously done his homework ahead of time to know Schiff's name and to know he was an inmate at Arkham.

People ***** and moan about how he made that giant computer based on Lucius' technology, but let's not pretend that taking technology from a little cell phone and enhancing it with a super computer (built singlehandedly, it seems---Fox was COMPLETELY in the dark about it) isn't a major accomplishment. That kind of thing is beyond anyone posting here and beyond 99% of people living in the real world.

But it's not enough to say that Batman knows certain things without showing how he came by that knowledge or information in the first place. He doesn't have to necessarily be Sherlock Holmes smart, but at least he should be as smart as any other detective in a cop show. I don't see this as being unrealistic. Most of these characters aren't geniuses. They're just extremely observant or have studied in their own time (or write crime novels and have therefore thought about these things).

Batman doesn't need to be technologically smart as in the comics, but he should have good detective skills on par with Castle, Monk, Goren, Columbo, Jessica Fletcher, if not Holmes.

And even if he is like Holmes, he doesn't need to be like the traditional version. Robert Downey Jr portrayed Holmes almost like a version of Batman who was also skilled in fighting etc. That's how Nolan's Dark Knight should really be.

 

[Tatsumarushinob]

Even the comic book version started out using vehicles and equipment from his own company.....

I am guessing though later on he did learn to upgrade his own stuff by himself, and perhaps we'll get some of that this time around after the Mr. Reese incident from last time.

In the comics he also had help from Harold, a deformed man that lived in the caves and who was killed in the Hush storyline.

In these movies, he has shown to be very inventive with the technology he uses, like the sonar machine near the end of TDK. I do agree that the movies could show even more forensic detective work, but what has been shown has been properly done and enough for me.

It would have been far better in my opinion if a scene like this took place in BB where Bruce would actually disguise himself and steal his own stuff from a warehoused division with lots of military/combat technology stuff in it. That way you can have Fox as his financial runner, rather than his own Q. That's too James Bond-ish for me.

 

[DaveMoral]

Arguably Sherlock Holmes is the original Batman. Complete with the mastery of martial arts. RDJ's Holmes is really the first to put a focus on that aspect of Doyle's character.

 

[Godzilla2014]

The Batman in Nolan's film is smart in that he is adaptable. He rises to meet any challenge. It doesn't mean he is unrealistically prepared for everything (at least, not yet) but he always finds a way to beat it, and quickly.

He's been learning for the past two movies. I'm hoping now to see more of a fully formed crime fighter in this one, batcave and all. I don't want him ready for everything, but the Joker's rise should have changed him to some extent - he needs to have really grown from that experience.

I completely agree. I think he has grown from his experience with the Joker. He seemed to realize that how to handle the Joker to a certain extent by the climax at the Prewitt Building in TDK.

 

[Steyin]

Smart enough to see why kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch.

 

[Elevator Man]

It would have been far better in my opinion if a scene like this took place in BB where Bruce would actually disguise himself and steal his own stuff from a warehoused division with lots of military/combat technology stuff in it. That way you can have Fox as his financial runner, rather than his own Q. That's too James Bond-ish for me.

I've always believe BB should've handled how he got his gadgets this way. It's a lot better than Wayne making silly excuses to Lucius about why he wants to use the technology. Wayne in Nolans films is semi -smart but compared to the comics is only as smart as Supes. Not nearly as intelligent as he should be early years or not.

 

[EliteF50]

Average intelligence.

 

[EliteF50]

Smart enough to see why kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch.

False. Intellect has nothing to fo with Cinnamon Toast Crunch's magical flavour. It's a taste only kids can see!

 

[sly]

Would you like to elaborate on your yellow faces and how my statement was confusing to you? Words and sentences would help! <--- see, face comes after words. Make for less

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Would you like to elaborate on your yellow faces and how my statement was confusing to you? Words and sentences would help! <--- see, face comes after words. Make for less

Maybe it has something to do with you saying Bruce couldn't possibly build a cave and toys, though he builds toys in Begins and a batcave in Knight.

 

[sly]

Maybe it has something to do with you saying Bruce couldn't possibly build a cave and toys, though he builds toys in Begins and a batcave in Knight.

I was comparing Nolan Batman to comic book Batman, like the OP was doing. They aren't on the same level, because one is completely imaginary and Nolan created a Batman in a hyper-realistic world. He's trying to show how it COULD be possible for a Batman to exist in our world.

And Bruce doesn't build all the toys from scratch in BB or TDK (the scene in BB with Alfred talking about the order from a supplier comes to mind). Bruce still of course assembles things... improves them, etc... but WayneTech has a lot to do with it.

 

[chamber-music]

First of all keep in my mind this is rookie Batman still learning the ropes not the modern comic book version with years of experience.

On his intellect how about Bruce sets up buying shares through shell companies becoming the majority shareholder and regaining control of Wayne Enterprises under Mr Earles nose that was intelligent.

Bruce doesn't create his tech and gadgets himself but he does modify them for his use as Batman.

As for detective skills Bruce carries out surveillance in Batman begins and (probably breaking in some places) tosecures files to use as leverage which he gives to Rachel, he shakes down Flass for information, he carries out ballistics, takes DNA samples, finger prints and has Alfred hack into Arkham files to get information on the Jokers henchman who tried to assainate the mayor in The Dark Knight.

Nolans Batman is more CSI Gotham than say Columbo.

I understand some fans wanting to see a old school detective style approach with magnifying glass, shelocks style deduction ect but that would be boring for most modern audiences. This is a summer blockbuster movie not Murder See Wrote. Even Sherlock Holmes is more action based in movies these days and keep in mind WB wants kids to see these movies and they want to see Batman kick ass not sit in the Batcave going over soil samples.

 

[Bat-Mite]

First of all keep in my mind this is rookie Batman still learning the ropes not the modern comic book version with years of experience.

On his intellect how about Bruce sets up buying shares through shell companies becoming the majority shareholder and regaining control of Wayne Enterprises under Mr Earles nose that was intelligent.

Bruce doesn't create his tech and gadgets himself but he does modify them for his use as Batman.

As for detective skills Bruce carries out surveillance in Batman begins and (probably breaking in some places) tosecures files to use as leverage which he gives to Rachel, he shakes down Flass for information, he carries out ballistics, takes DNA samples, finger prints and has Alfred hack into Arkham files to get information on the Jokers henchman who tried to assainate the mayor in The Dark Knight.

Nolans Batman is more CSI Gotham than say Columbo.

I understand some fans wanting to see a old school detective style approach with magnifying glass, shelocks style deduction ect but that would be boring for most modern audiences. This is a summer blockbuster movie not Murder See Wrote. Even Sherlock Holmes is more action based in movies these days and keep in mind WB wants kids to see these movies and they want to see Batman kick ass not sit in the Batcave going over soil samples.

Wha... could it be? A post with some common sense!

Really, if Nolan's Batman was as simple as many here are suggesting, he never would have caught the Joker and Mr. J would be running Gotham with Batman as his lapdog.

 

[Shazam]

That's kinda the point of Nolan's movies. Batman of the comics was basically of super intelligence, right? This is more of a "real world" Batman... with all the human elements and flaws involved. This Bruce does craft and assemble certain things himself (watch Batman Begins), but there's no way possible a human has the capability and time to build a Batcave and all those toys from scratch. WayneTech gives Bruce that advantage and makes it possible in a hyper-real world scenario.

So "super intelligent " people are not "real world"???

Bill Gates?? Einstein??? People are desidning high tech toys for Waynes own company. So why has Wayne been shown with that aptitude? It was be a lot safer than stealing his own tech witht he risk of one one of his employees recognizing his/her design on TV....right??

 

[Shazam]

Well he may not be able to build his own vehicles but he sure can make a good chicken cordon bleu.

LOL!! You got my typo!! Sorry!! t:

 

[Shazam]

He's by no means the genius he is in the comics... and I thank God for that.

Why??

 

[Shazam]

He needs to show his detective and crime solving skills. He hasn't done that very much at all in any of the comic movies. Sure, people can try to point to examples of his detective work, but it's more of a stretch to find it. It's not like you can see it clearly as in the example of other detectives such as Det Goren (Law & Order Criminal Intent), Columbo, Monk, Castle, even the detectives from the CSI franchises.

Batman should have expert profiling skills, be able to spot details and inconsistencies, be able to play the criminals off each other (like Goren), and have expert forensic skills and specialist forensic equipment. I can't see that this Batman is even half the detective that some of these other characters are, and he's supposed to be the world's greatest detective.

Add Sherlock Holme to that list....Downey Jr. was excellent in that. I think those that say he displayed these skills , really are wishing it into the movie. Heck...it would be nice to see this.

 

[sly]

So "super intelligent " people are not "real world"??? Bill Gates?? Einstein???

Wow, okay... let's try again.

Did Bill Gates build a giant Microsoft facility by himself (or with the help of his butler and maybe one other person)? For this arguments sake, let's assume he or someone of his brain power actually did have the time and ability to do this. Does that person also possess elite strength, fighting, and detective ability? Of course not... no human has all that. Which is why Batman from the comics is different than Batman in Nolan's world.

WayneTech has an entire TEAM of military designers and builders... plus Bruce was shown in Batman Begins to have access to obscure military suppliers from around the world. A human being can't possibly pull all that off by himself, or without help from a number of other people, companies, underground suppliers, money, power, etc. etc. Nolan is at least showing his interpretation of what it would take.

 

[Dark Raven]

Nolans Batman is more CSI Gotham than say Columbo.

I understand some fans wanting to see a old school detective style approach with magnifying glass, shelocks style deduction ect but that would be boring for most modern audiences. This is a summer blockbuster movie not Murder See Wrote. Even Sherlock Holmes is more action based in movies these days and keep in mind WB wants kids to see these movies and they want to see Batman kick ass not sit in the Batcave going over soil samples.

But see, here's the thing. Bruce Wayne doesn't come across with as many detective skills as Mac Taylor, Horatio Caine or Gil Grissom. I put them in that order because Gil Grissom was more of a lab nerd and wasn't a formally qualified detective, and Horatio Caine is more of an over-the-top supercop. Mac Taylor is the most down-to-earth of the three.

I did mention CSI in my first post when I was comparing them.

I wasn't suggesting Batman be an old school detective with a magnifying glass though. That's why I mentioned Detective Goren (Vincent D'Onofrio) from Law and Order: Criminal Intent. He is a modern detective, but brilliant, able to think on his feet, very observant etc. He would ideally be the template for Bruce Wayne's abilities, as he comes from a very troubled background and can be very unorthodox with his methods.

I also mentioned the RDJ Sherlock Holmes franchise as that is more like Batman with the physicality.

The only reason I mentioned Murder She Wrote was because Jessica Fletcher was an amateur detective who wasn't formally qualified as such, but stuck her nose into police business because she just couldn't help her curiosity. The modern version of her is Richard Castle (Nathan Fillion), but even he has a lot of help and support from the police and their resources.

I could've also mentioned Cal Lightman (Tim Roth, "Lie to Me") but he is more of a specialist who has studied his craft on micro expressions for years. There's also Patrick Jane (Simon Baker, "The Mentalist"), or any of the NCIS team - particularly Leroy Gibbs (Mark Harmon). All of these are modern "detectives".

My point before is that Bruce Wayne should be at least have the same detective abilities as these characters I've listed.