The Dark Knight Rises How smart is nolan's batman?

[antsman41]

What issue is that!?

Graham Nolan era (best artist ever), probably between 96-99...

 

[chamber-music]

But see, here's the thing. Bruce Wayne doesn't come across with as many detective skills as Mac Taylor, Horatio Caine or Gil Grissom. I put them in that order because Gil Grissom was more of a lab nerd and wasn't a formally qualified detective, and Horatio Caine is more of an over-the-top supercop. Mac Taylor is the most down-to-earth of the three.

I did mention CSI in my first post when I was comparing them.

I wasn't suggesting Batman be an old school detective with a magnifying glass though. That's why I mentioned Detective Goren (Vincent D'Onofrio) from Law and Order: Criminal Intent. He is a modern detective, but brilliant, able to think on his feet, very observant etc. He would ideally be the template for Bruce Wayne's abilities, as he comes from a very troubled background and can be very unorthodox with his methods.

I also mentioned the RDJ Sherlock Holmes franchise as that is more like Batman with the physicality.

The only reason I mentioned Murder She Wrote was because Jessica Fletcher was an amateur detective who wasn't formally qualified as such, but stuck her nose into police business because she just couldn't help her curiosity. The modern version of her is Richard Castle (Nathan Fillion), but even he has a lot of help and support from the police and their resources.

I could've also mentioned Cal Lightman (Tim Roth, "Lie to Me") but he is more of a specialist who has studied his craft on micro expressions for years. There's also Patrick Jane (Simon Baker, "The Mentalist"), or any of the NCIS team - particularly Leroy Gibbs (Mark Harmon). All of these are modern "detectives".

My point before is that Bruce Wayne should be at least have the same detective abilities as these characters I've listed.

I get what your saying. This isn't the type of Batman Nolan or Burton or Schumacher have gone for though.

Perhaps a future Batman director may do a more detective centred Batman the way you want in the future.

 

[Doc Samson]

I think given the breath and weight of both movies, Batman showed sufficient detective skills with the time allotted. Remember, in BB they had to show his whole growth as a character and how he came to be, while simultaneously setting up the villains, plot & secondary characters.

TDK was even worse, with a much more frenetic pace, but oddly, I think he showed even more intellect. Sure, Fox gives him the tech, but he took it further by developing the sonar on a citywide scale by himself. He did the forensics with the bullet basically by himself. He quickly deciphered the Joker's antics with switching the hostages, and showed some quick thinking in order to deal with that situation. He gave Gordon the marked bills to track the mob money.

I don't think there's ever going to be enough time to show Batman in detective mode to the extent most of you guys want, not in a live action movie. However I think he's still shown himself as being quite sharp

 

[Godzilla2014]

I think given the breath and weight of both movies, Batman showed sufficient detective skills with the time allotted. Remember, in BB they had to show his whole growth as a character and how he came to be, while simultaneously setting up the villains, plot & secondary characters.

TDK was even worse, with a much more frenetic pace, but oddly, I think he showed even more intellect. Sure, Fox gives him the tech, but he took it further by developing the sonar on a citywide scale by himself. He did the forensics with the bullet basically by himself. He quickly deciphered the Joker's antics with switching the hostages, and showed some quick thinking in order to deal with that situation. He gave Gordon the marked bills to track the mob money.

I don't think there's ever going to be enough time to show Batman in detective mode to the extent most of you guys want, not in a live action movie. However I think he's still shown himself as being quite sharp

I agree.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

In Nolan's Batman, Bruce's technology does all the detective work for him. I think what alot of fans want is a Batman who proves he's the "world's greatest detective" because he figures out things and unravels mysteries with his mind and not always with the help of expensive tech.

Mental prowess is what would decides if someone is the greatest detective, not expensive forensic equipment.

 

[Godzilla2014]

In Nolan's Batman, Bruce's technology does all the detective work for him. I think what alot of fans want is a Batman who proves he's the "world's greatest detective" because he figures out things and unravels mysteries with his mind and not always with the help of expensive tech.

Mental prowess is what would decides if someone is the greatest detective, not expensive forensic equipment.

Nolan's Batman does in fact do things like interrogate people, investigate leads, and examine evidence in both Batman Begins & The Dark Knight. Things like identifying prints are far more efficient for a computer with a database to do than a person. Plus he did come up with ideas like the marked bills, et cetera. He's a smart crime-fighter of the 21st century. He's shown plenty of mental prowess in the Nolan films.

 

[antsman41]

In Nolan's Batman, Bruce's technology does all the detective work for him. I think what alot of fans want is a Batman who proves he's the "world's greatest detective" because he figures out things and unravels mysteries with his mind and not always with the help of expensive tech.

Mental prowess is what would decides if someone is the greatest detective, not expensive forensic equipment.

My favorite Bruce moment is BEGINS is when he researching allies and enemies in his study room and all of the scene hanging out and spying on people. Also, he totally was "detecting" the drugs by scooping out that apartment...

 

[BatScot]

I don't think there's ever going to be enough time to show Batman in detective mode to the extent most of you guys want, not in a live action movie. However I think he's still shown himself as being quite sharp

I recall back when Aronofsky was "attached" to the project that the idea for the films was much smaller, more character oriented, more 'of the street'. While Nolan has made good films, one can argue they are Bond-esque summer fare and TDKR looks to be more of the same. No thinking man's Batman here, just fists and explosions. I suppose that's the nature of these sorts of things, look at what they did to Sherlock Holmes. Again, a decent enough film, but... meh, maybe one day someone will make CSI: Gotham.

 

[Godzilla2014]

My favorite Bruce moment is BEGINS is when he researching allies and enemies in his study room and all of the scene hanging out and spying on people. Also, he totally was "detecting" the drugs by scooping out that apartment...

Exactly. Technology is a tool used in detective work, not a replacement for it.

 

[DaveMoral]

A good angle to fit Robin in is as thr Watson to Batman's Holmes as Kane intended him.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Screw Kane that is what Bill Finger wanted and wrote. Bob Kane was the most over appreciated man in the biz. All he came up with was the name.

 

[Dark Raven]

Nolan's Batman does in fact do things like interrogate people, investigate leads, and examine evidence in both Batman Begins & The Dark Knight. Things like identifying prints are far more efficient for a computer with a database to do than a person. Plus he did come up with ideas like the marked bills, et cetera. He's a smart crime-fighter of the 21st century. He's shown plenty of mental prowess in the Nolan films.

But his interrogation doesn't seem quite as effective as, say, someone like Det Goren from Criminal Intent. I would've loved a scene between Batman and the Joker (or any other criminal) in the same vein as you'd get with Goren when he's facing off against the criminals in the end and playing all kinds of psychological mind games.

Also, we didn't see Batman observing inconsistencies or profiling criminals. He doesn't have to do all the donkey work of processing evidence and DNA, but he should be the one figuring out how it all points to someone and the one breaking a case.

 

[antsman41]

Screw Kane that is what Bill Finger wanted and wrote. Bob Kane was the most over appreciated man in the biz. All he came up with was the name.

Finger got FINGER'D.

Sad, he doesn't get much credit. Even hardcore fans know little of his imput...

 

[PSYLENTGuardian]

I heard a rumor going around of [BLACKOUT]Lucius dying[/BLACKOUT]. That could be a catalyst for Bruce making his own stuff.

 

[The_Joker_hahah]

I feel Nolan's Batman is really smart. Granted he couldnt quite figure out the Joker because that man was completely insane. And its hard to be one step ahead of something that moves in erratic patterns. But there were alot of moments in the Movie where Batman was actually smarter than the Joker. Especially the end, where he takes out the Swat team and finally the Joker. Batman did whatever it took to hunt and take him down. Even when the Joker threatened to blow up a hospital if Reese wasnt offed, and Bruce was tracking down potencial cops with family members admitted in hospitals, he seemed to know every single cop by name. Theres no way a normal person could ever hope to do that.

 

[JackWhite]

The Sonar system Bruce concocted in TDK was a damn fine accomplishment on his part.

I can only assume that in TDKR Bruce will only get more clever and sly with his intellect.

 

[Doc Samson]

I recall back when Aronofsky was "attached" to the project that the idea for the films was much smaller, more character oriented, more 'of the street'. While Nolan has made good films, one can argue they are Bond-esque summer fare and TDKR looks to be more of the same. No thinking man's Batman here, just fists and explosions. I suppose that's the nature of these sorts of things, look at what they did to Sherlock Holmes. Again, a decent enough film, but... meh, maybe one day someone will make CSI: Gotham.

I feel there's different aspects to intelligence though. I feel this version of Batman is more of a tactical strategist, which does require knowledge too, just a different kind.

I could understand if he didn't survey the crime scenes at all, like the Burton/Schumacher flicks. But here, he still checks in with Gordon, takes and looks at evidence. They just incorporated Fox on a technical level. I would call it more of a collaboration than anything, and given the time period, I don't mind as much as I would if this were, say, Year 5.

As you stated, these are Summer Blockbusters after all, I'm not sure how much of a market there is for CSI: Gotham, as you called it. I'm astonished people concentrated enough through the first half of BB. I'd be really shocked if the GA could sit through actual, hardcore detective work in mid-July.

 

[Marvin]

The Sonar system Bruce concocted in TDK was a damn fine accomplishment on his part.

I can only assume that in TDKR Bruce will only get more clever and sly with his intellect.

probably would have been more apparent if he did it from scratch.
It was already "Damn fine" impressive tech. Attaching it to your orbiting satellites in such a way could be either or hard or not so much.

the fact that he did it without fox kinda speaks to how difficult a task it probably was.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Graham Nolan era (best artist ever), probably between 96-99...

Do you know the issue though?

 

[Dark Raven]

You know what Batman needs? To get smart. Then he could have Agent 99 as his sidekick.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

But his interrogation doesn't seem quite as effective as, say, someone like Det Goren from Criminal Intent. I would've loved a scene between Batman and the Joker (or any other criminal) in the same vein as you'd get with Goren when he's facing off against the criminals in the end and playing all kinds of psychological mind games.

Also, we didn't see Batman observing inconsistencies or profiling criminals. He doesn't have to do all the donkey work of processing evidence and DNA, but he should be the one figuring out how it all points to someone and the one breaking a case.

Yeah, not sure if that works with the Joker.

Also, don't see what case Batman would of had to break in the first two films. The enemies make themselves apparent from the word go.

 

[Marvin]

The interrogation scene really put batman's mental prowess on display, in these movies he's just so so.

Joker on the other hand may as well have been Xena for all his smarts.

 

[Dark Raven]

Yeah, not sure if that works with the Joker.

Also, don't see what case Batman would of had to break in the first two films. The enemies make themselves apparent from the word go.

But it would be so much more interesting and intimidating if he breaks a criminal psychologically (like Det Goren) than just growling and saying lines like "swear to me!"

 

[Bat-Mite]

They should have given us a mediocre Joker to make Batman look smarter. That makes a lot more sense than having a novice Batman learn that his prejudices about criminals being simple aren't true, to the point where he has the Joker's mindset completely figured out by the end of the movie. Character growth is overrated.

 

[moviedoors]

And even if he is like Holmes, he doesn't need to be like the traditional version. Robert Downey Jr portrayed Holmes almost like a version of Batman who was also skilled in fighting etc. That's how Nolan's Dark Knight should really be.

Ugh, let's keep Ritchie's Holmes as far away from Batman as possible.

I've never seen that much in common with Batman and Holmes anyway. Yeah, yeah, they're both detectives, but Holmes is more or less a genius with an extreme case of Asperger's Syndrome. His obsession with certain details (like cigar ashes) and his complete lack of knowledge about others (doesn't know that the Earth orbits the sun) are comical and bring a levity to the character. I'd say that's pretty different from Batman.