The Dark Knight Rises Ideas For Incorporating Characters Into the Nolanverse

[Sawyer]

I think Batman 3 should be Riddler and Penguin.
Mr. Freeze is too sci-ff, smae for Bane and Clayface
Poison Ivy would be good, so would Mad HAtter or The Ventriliquist, but I'd still preffer Edward and Oswald

I'm sorry, but you're saying that Mr. Freeze is too sci-fi, but Poison Ivy is just fine? Really?

 

[The Major]

I think Batman 3 should be Riddler and Penguin.
Mr. Freeze is too sci-ff, smae for Bane and Clayface

Freeze can fit into Nolan's universe. Read the Freeze threads.

The only thing sci-fi about Bane is Venom which can be tweaked into a realistic concept easily.

Clayface can return to his original form of being a infiltrator/spy type killer who can alter his appearance with make-up, padding and prosthetics.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

I'm sorry, but you're saying that Mr. Freeze is too sci-fi, but Poison Ivy is just fine? Really?

Yeah, that is just plain dumb. Freeze is very easily adaptable... As of yet, the best I can think of for Poison Ivy is some bioterrorist and/or an ecoterrorist.

 

[Texas Zombie]

Personally I don't like freeze, ivy, or penguin. I like the idea of penguin being a russian arms dealer. I hat pretty much every idea for poison ivy. I just plain don't like Mr. Freeze. I'm thinking about riddler more along the lines of krav maga, BJJ(braz. J. Jit.) with a cane type weapon. He's along the lines of Alex Delarge (A clockwork orange) with some genius solving skills. I like him having rolled up sleeves with two tattoo question marks, A suit with ripped off sleeves and a nice pair of green pants, he should also have a tophat and wear a tie with a question mark and some cool glasses (maybe a bandana over mouth and nose). He uses a cane mostly for fighting. The joker uses his gang of thugs that work only for him. He robs banks, kills, and questions.

For black mask I see more a of a murderous ruthless killer that has taken over the crumbling mob. He uses a revolver and always wears a suit. He has a mask oriental like this

except very similar to a skull (frightens people).

Clayface alters his appearance through surgery, makeup (movie grade), and black market means. He becomes people he has murdered and they go missing for about a week come back from vacation and then after about two weeks vanish. He has no real pattern.

I would like to see scarecrow again, maybe with an updated look. Try a black suit.

 

[ScarecrowMan666]

I really like your ideas....t:

 

[ERVysther]

I still have mixed feelings on the idea of the Mad Hatter...his recent (suggested) portrayal as a pedophile in the books would make him both quite relevant and dark, but, again, I think it's a question of taste and discretion...that's a subject line that has to be tread VERY carefully, almost too so, rendering the idea null and void almost immediately.

Any thoughts?

Actually, while I *do* like the idea of a Penguin/Riddler/Catwoman triple play, I get deja vu visions of Spiderman 3 or a very character dense three hour plus film.

(This may sound good on paper, but, face it - Dark Knight is a very intense film, and, quite literally, nearly wore my family and I out on the first viewing.)

Three major villains alone is a lot to take in and digest in terms of plot, character, pacing and intensity - and then all the other plot threads that neeed to be built up and develpoed - and, if you up the ante even more, some folks may get turned off...you can only cram so much in before you either overload people or - as in the case with Spiderman 3 - become a pardoy.

I don't see that happening - Noaln is very thorough and quality-oriented, but, I do think it would be a case of way too much information.

 

[Texas Zombie]

I think 3 villains could work as long as one is not a huge part. In the ideas I suggested I think we should see scarecrow escaping from prison have him actually kill someone (maybe even get put back in jail), I would like to see clayface (he wants to get the ultimate kill, so he goes after batman) killings on the Tv and thats where they dub him the clayface killer (have him fight batman), Black mask is one of the main villains the other two are just small. Black mask should where an oriental mask similar to the one I showed above except change it to be more freakishly scary, and the Riddler should lead his own gang he should have no more than 20. I like the idea of him not caring about what happens to the mob, and simply wanting create total freedom. What if he believes he is doing the right thing, maybe he's an anarchist. Maybe it's all lead by hush, but I don't know i'm just suggesting.

 

[Sawyer]

Riddler/Penguin/Catwoman can be easily done in one movie.

The Riddler would take on Joker's role as the main villain. IMO, Riddler should go mostly unseen in the movie, at least for the first half hour or so. It should be mostly riddles from an unseen killer.

Penguin would take on the mob role of Falcone/Maroni in the past two movies.

Catwoman would be the villain/love interest, like a mixture of Rachel and Dent. As Selina, he develops feelings for her. As Catwoman, he is attracted to her but is unsure of her motives.

Nolan could flesh out the rest of that.

 

[Joker8906]

I see the riddler in nolans world like Zodiac like and yes not seeing his face til halfway through would be insanely cool but I can also kind of see him like Jigsaw from the saw flicks because he'll set up a trap thats overly theatrical and leave a riddle thats rigged into it fail the puzzle you die.

actually it'd be sweet if like in the saw movies the riddler like left a mark on his victems like how jigsaw leaves the puzzle piece cut into the people who fail his tests.

Penguin I see as being deformed like if anyone here has seen Nip/tuck the main guys son had weird hands and he operated on him. something like that would be doable.

 

[ThePoisonPuppet]

I still have mixed feelings on the idea of the Mad Hatter...his recent (suggested) portrayal as a pedophile in the books would make him both quite relevant and dark, but, again, I think it's a question of taste and discretion...that's a subject line that has to be tread VERY carefully, almost too so, rendering the idea null and void almost immediately.

Any thoughts?

Actually, while I *do* like the idea of a Penguin/Riddler/Catwoman triple play, I get deja vu visions of Spiderman 3 or a very character dense three hour plus film.

(This may sound good on paper, but, face it - Dark Knight is a very intense film, and, quite literally, nearly wore my family and I out on the first viewing.)

Three major villains alone is a lot to take in and digest in terms of plot, character, pacing and intensity - and then all the other plot threads that neeed to be built up and develpoed - and, if you up the ante even more, some folks may get turned off...you can only cram so much in before you either overload people or - as in the case with Spiderman 3 - become a pardoy.

I don't see that happening - Noaln is very thorough and quality-oriented, but, I do think it would be a case of way too much information.

I just posted this in another thread as well, but my point was that each movie only had seven major characters and we are short three from the last movie so you can do three villains, or two villains and one anti-hero/new supporting character. This would especially work if some of the time spent on things like the mob was cut out, or Lucius who while I like, I'll admit is an expendable character. Just for example.


Batman Begins
Bruce Wayne/Batman
Rachel Dawes
Alfred Pennyworth
Lucius Fox
Jim Gordon
Dr. Crane/Scarecrow
Henri Ducard/Rhas al Ghul

The Dark Knight
Bruce Wayne/Batman
Rachel Dawes
Alfred Pennyworth
Lucius Fox
Jim Gordon
The Joker
Harvey Dent/Two-Face

BB3
Bruce Wayne/Batman
Selina Kyle/Catwoman
Alfred Pennyworth
Lucius Fox
Jim Gordon
Roman Sionis/The Black Mask
Ed Nashton/The Riddler

 

[Sawyer]

I just posted this in another thread as well, but my point was that each movie only had seven major characters and we are short three from the last movie so you can do three villains, or two villains and one anti-hero/new supporting character. This would especially work if some of the time spent on things like the mob was cut out, or Lucius who while I like, I'll admit is an expendable character. Just for example.


Batman Begins
Bruce Wayne/Batman
Rachel Dawes
Alfred Pennyworth
Lucius Fox
Jim Gordon
Dr. Crane/Scarecrow
Henri Ducard/Rhas al Ghul

The Dark Knight
Bruce Wayne/Batman
Rachel Dawes
Alfred Pennyworth
Lucius Fox
Jim Gordon
The Joker
Harvey Dent/Two-Face

BB3
Bruce Wayne/Batman
Selina Kyle/Catwoman
Alfred Pennyworth
Lucius Fox
Jim Gordon
Roman Sionis/The Black Mask
Ed Nashton/The Riddler

You know, funny enough, Hush would actually fit that style. It would be...

Bruce Wayne/Batman
Selina Kyle/Catwoman
Alfred Pennyworth
Lucius Fox
Jim Gordon
Edward Nigma/The Riddler
Thomas Elliot/Hush

Hmm...

 

[Cunning Stunts]

You know, funny enough, Hush would actually fit that style. It would be...

Bruce Wayne/Batman
Selina Kyle/Catwoman
Alfred Pennyworth
Lucius Fox
Jim Gordon
Edward Nigma/The Riddler
Thomas Elliot/Hush

Hmm...

The only issue I have with Hush being in the next film is his backstory... Jeph Loeb did a pretty shoddy job of throwing him in there where he's supposedly "always been," when there'd been zero trace of him before. I mean, I understand the character was just created, but it felt forced adding Thomas as Bruce's long-time best friend.

If they were able to fix that up a bit better, then I'd be all for it, because I love Hush's character (other than his 'forced' backstory), and think he would make an awesome addition to this film series.

 

[Changeling]

I'm gonna sum up this thread

_________can be a mob boss that __________.

 

[Sawyer]

The only issue I have with Hush being in the next film is his backstory... Jeph Loeb did a pretty shoddy job of throwing him in there where he's supposedly "always been," when there'd been zero trace of him before. I mean, I understand the character was just created, but it felt forced adding Thomas as Bruce's long-time best friend.

If they were able to fix that up a bit better, then I'd be all for it, because I love Hush's character (other than his 'forced' backstory), and think he would make an awesome addition to this film series.

Well Nolan really just takes aspects of each story and throws them into the mix. I doubt he would fully adapt Hush to film (but hopefully Bruce Timm does, in animation. Fingers crossed.)

 

[Dark Victory]

You know, funny enough, Hush would actually fit that style. It would be...

Bruce Wayne/Batman
Selina Kyle/Catwoman
Alfred Pennyworth
Lucius Fox
Jim Gordon
Edward Nigma/The Riddler
Thomas Elliot/Hush

Hmm...

But do we want Hush?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

IMO opinion you couldn't have the "propper" Hush without establishing the DC universe and introducing the rest of Batmans rogue gallery. You could have Hush as a villain, but he just wouldn't be the Hush that we really want.

 

[The Batkilt]

I still have mixed feelings on the idea of the Mad Hatter...his recent (suggested) portrayal as a pedophile in the books would make him both quite relevant and dark, but, again, I think it's a question of taste and discretion...that's a subject line that has to be tread VERY carefully, almost too so, rendering the idea null and void almost immediately.

I don't think they would have to make him a pedophile. Keep the obsession with Alice In Wonderland and perhaps have him kidnapping girls to try to 'find his Alice', but I don't think he should be portrayed as having any sexual interest towards them.

One idea I had for Mad Hatter that tried to incorporate this with his mind control devices was this: Jervis Tetch was working on an implant that surppresses the urges of pedophiles to effectively cure/control them. However, over time he begins to fear that he's becoming too desensitized to these images and seeks psychiatric help from Dr. Jonathan Crane. Crane experiments with Tetch's mind to tap into his fears, to the point that Tetch goes crazy and begins to believe he really is in Wonderland.

Not that great but I was trying to think of how to incorporate different elements of his character while also keeping it from being too fantastical.

The only issue I have with Hush being in the next film is his backstory... Jeph Loeb did a pretty shoddy job of throwing him in there where he's supposedly "always been," when there'd been zero trace of him before. I mean, I understand the character was just created, but it felt forced adding Thomas as Bruce's long-time best friend.

If they were able to fix that up a bit better, then I'd be all for it, because I love Hush's character (other than his 'forced' backstory), and think he would make an awesome addition to this film series.

In Batman Begins they Alfred and Bruce briefly talk about Bruce attending Princeton. Perhaps he met Elliott there?

 

[gwynplaine]

Al Pacino for the Mad Hatter.

 

[Texas Zombie]

Thomas Elliot could help a grieving Bruce Wayne and Hush could be a problematic villain.

 

[Sky Captain]

Any ideas for Anarky? I dug up a bunch of old Detective Comics issues and realized I really dug the character. I just used dug in two different ways.

As a young character, at least, Anarky makes more sense to bring in than a Robin. It'd definitely be interesting.

 

[jscottmarine]

i think everyone is delving a little too deep into the backstories of the possible villains. using begins and tdk as a template, nolan is more likely going to let his villain's actions define their characteristics than try and explain some complicated origin.

in this sense, i would imagine the riddler as carrying out some unabomber/oklahoma city type attacks (afterall, ted kazinski was supposedly a genius in his own right, and mcveigh definitely a little on the schizophrenic side). so, if the riddler could perhaps latch onto some specific motivation... maybe he feels gotham is becoming too degenerated or apathetic and his way to galvanize the people of gotham back into a meaningful society is to force them to come together and solve his riddles to stop the destruction of their city (afterall, in reality most evil doings are justified in the minds of their perpetrators)...

i imagine the character himself as being much older than he would usually be portrayed, definitely past middle aged, showing a touch of grey. though his background would have been from prominent gotham society, i.e. university professor (i myself imagine him as a poet of sorts... not some sort of computer programmer), his growing distrust of the city has pushed him into the country where he's hermitized himself. he's gone from wearing suits to camouflage jackets, writes letters by lamp light instead of typing emails, but hasn't let his decrease in social interaction ****** his intellect. on the contrary, his days are now spent reading endlessly... mainly fixated with history and philosophy.

with the culminating point of seeing the people of gotham strong armed by the joker, and even batman in result doing unthinkable acts (don't forget he's an accused murderer, now) this man finally breaks and sees himself becoming the riddler, a last straw, sink or swim savior of the city... and lays down the ultimatum of either get straight, or be destroyed.

at first he would have no qualms with batman (afterall he sees himself as the vigilante type willing to do whats neccessary) until the bat foils one of his key attacks (after gordon leaks him some police intel). after that, he decides to intertwine the dark knight into the final plan of the city's demise (hell i dunno what, im making this up as i go along).

as far as actors? maybe kevin spacey, but that would almost be too much of a type cast. i'm not opposed to something as off the wall as gene hackman (maybe too old), robin williams, dustin hoffman... even liam neison, but he's obviously out of the running.

as far as the penguin? i don't know... i've always thought of the penguin as kinda pointless anyway... make him the weapon's dealer that hooks the riddle up with his bombs and leave it at that.

 

[Melkay]

I do not think of the Riddler as someone whith and IDEOLOGY to guide his crimes. That's not the character in the comics and his motivations are not that elevated. Nolan already used powerful villains with ideologies in Begins and TDK... and there are still some others remaining who have strong and particular world views (Catwoman, for example). But the Riddler isn't one of them. He doesn't make riddles to cleanse Gotham. He makes them to outsmart the police.

People... do not get fixated with big villain ideas. This time the Batman must be bigger than any of his foes.

However, for those interested... click the link in my signature. You'll find several ideas regarding some posibble uses of the Riddler, Catwoman, Mr. Freeze and even the Penguin, in case some of them make it into the new movie.

Take care...

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea i've never thought of Riddler as a villain who has major goals, well physical goals anyway. I think he is just motivated by his ego, and proving that he is the greatest mind of them all.

 

[Salemdog]

Should have put this here...posted in wrong place..but here is some old stuff


For your consideration, in keeping with Nolan's realverse, could the casting change or solidify with the following scenerios.

1.The triad, pissed that their guy was snatched by Bats, sends Lady Shiva to Gotham to take him out. In the mean time the Riddler, using modern tech, hacking, etc. to hit the banks and such is wrecking havoc. So Bats has to get the Riddler and avoid being exed by L. Shiva.

2.Penguin shows up in Gotham. He's a international arms dealer who got his moniker by having a tendency to wear traditional tuxes, is diminutive in size, and has a walk resembling a waddle due to a bum leg. He already has heard about Batman and sent Deadshot ahead to take him out, or at least distract him while he does business. (Don't forget a nasty brella)

3. Riddler, same as above, steals something valuable(as in extreme database) but Catwoman steals it from him(not knowing what it is) and Batman has to deal with getting it back from her, nailing the Riddler, and perhaps even protecting her from the Riddler.


Yeah, I know,pretty basic. But in a way so was Dark Knight, made extreme by the characters. Now, each though, has a real world vibe that I can see Nolan seeing in the next flick. And each has a Major and Minor villain arc Nolan seems to prefer. By the way I used these a few years back and just rehashing them a bit.


Sorry for being brief but time constrant has only allowed to get the basics out and I'm sure you get the gist of it.

 

[The Major]

Any ideas for Anarky? I dug up a bunch of old Detective Comics issues and realized I really dug the character. I just used dug in two different ways.

A Joker fanatic or someone inspired by what Joker did in DK.

Could be either a minor villain or a cameo villain who Batman fights or the cops deal with who leads a gang of saboteurs and pranksters that rebel against society like the Mutants in DKR.

As a young character, at least, Anarky makes more sense to bring in than a Robin. It'd definitely be interesting.

I agree.