The Dark Knight Rises Ideas For Incorporating Characters Into the Nolanverse

[jwhitehouse]

I had to register just to give this guy some applause. I also am a Penguin fan (We're in the minority) and I think ol' Oswald needs to be done some justice. Say what you want, but the "Penguin" in Batman Returns was the Penguin by name only. I wish to see this criminal done as the SANE, pompous, aristocratic mobster he is. The man who can order a man to get brutally tortured to death and then go to the opera. Most of those who dislike the character use the "boring" excuse (which I don't see...but then again it's a matter of opinion), and he's too inane and silly... He did a lot of bird themed crimes back in his heyday, but then again all of the villains had some stupid gimmick at one time or another.

+1. Penguin won't be the next villain, but if you strip the character of the ridiculous gimmicks, he's just insanely ruthless. The Joker in TDK didn't want to kill Batman, he wanted to beat Batman. At his best, the Penguin doesn't give a f***, he'd kill Batman and be annoyed if it failed.

Could Black Mask be that? Sure, but you're adding another silly gimmick (skull mask) for no reason. What's more believable, a rich socialite running the mob while wearing a mask, or using a code identity?

Now when we get into deformity and tophats and umbrellas I quickly lose interest in the Penguin. But then, I'm the guy who thinks the original version of Hugo Strange would be the logical next villain, so what do I know?

 

[Texas Zombie]

Well what if the mask has dual meaning. It strikes fear into ppl and covers his identity. Getting the gimmick from scarecrow he uses a mask to strike fear. There is actually no reason to explain his motives.

I recently saw this.

Its an army of two rios mask. Something similar could work.
look below.

 

[Texas Zombie]

Spoiler

 

[MadVillainy]

Im wondering would anybody consider Tom Wilkison for Penguin if he wasnt Falcone

 

[Hooded Justice]

+1. Penguin won't be the next villain, but if you strip the character of the ridiculous gimmicks, he's just insanely ruthless. The Joker in TDK didn't want to kill Batman, he wanted to beat Batman. At his best, the Penguin doesn't give a f***, he'd kill Batman and be annoyed if it failed.

Could Black Mask be that? Sure, but you're adding another silly gimmick (skull mask) for no reason. What's more believable, a rich socialite running the mob while wearing a mask, or using a code identity?

Now when we get into deformity and tophats and umbrellas I quickly lose interest in the Penguin. But then, I'm the guy who thinks the original version of Hugo Strange would be the logical next villain, so what do I know?

Ya mean the guy with the concentrated lightning, the fear gas, and the monster men? No thanks.

Spoiler

That does look creepy.

Im wondering would anybody consider Tom Wilkison for Penguin if he wasnt Falcone

Possibly, but he's taller than Bale though. A Penguin who's taller than Batman wouldn't work for me.

 

[Hooded Justice]

This isn't mine but I expect Clayface (if they chose him) to look like this

http://lidiev.deviantart.com/art/Clayfacee-98424998

I don't think Nolan would ever pick Clayface.

Thinking... Thinking... Thinking...
What about firefly. An arsonist with a jetpack. Maybe something along these lines.

complements of nightmare armor studios.

I don't think enough people take Firefly seriously enough.

Someone posted the idea of a live action Nolanized Batman TV show,
which wouldn't be such a bad idea once Nolan and Bale and everyone left the franchise (maybe after the 3rd movie).
So would the bad guys have to be different than they would have been in a movie then? And maybe if there was a TV show they could continue with more bad guys than we expected to see.

Would it be set in the same continuity as the movies?

It's from the more recent comics. I'm not bothered which one they use to be honest.

As long as they don't use Nigma/Nygma, I'm happy.

I had an idea hit me the other day, for using Clayface:

A lot of people brought up the idea around here that Clayface should be a killer who wears masks made of clay to hide his identity.

What if he was an expert killer who was picked up by Black Mask to help assassinate and confuse major figureheads in Gotham?

By "confuse," I mean they wouldn't be able to pin Black for the murders, but somehow, a masked figure keeps popping up and killing Gotham's most important people.

I just figured that since Black Mask is known for being good at carving up masks and other pieces of sculpture, he could be Clayface's boss/number one "supporter" in trying to achieve whatever cause Clayface is after in any particular film.

I don't think they should use Clayface in this franchise, because if they did, they'd have to change him to be more like something like what you've suggested, and then he just wouldn't be Clayface, not IMO anyway.

I know what people mean when they say this but to be honest I don't necessarily agree. Having re-watched The Dark Knight over the past few days I think the exact opposite - I think Batman needs a more cerebral opponent.

Think about it. What's more physical than The Joker in TDK? He murdered the citizens of Gotham and even had two boats full of people rigged to explode. Sure, there was no one-on-one fight with Batman but that kind of scene doesn't really fit Nolan's series. It'd fit with the previous franchise that was all about Batman vs. 'a villain', those sort of scenes were almost a necessity. Nolan's films tell a much wider story and actually show the importance of Batman to Gotham, and Gotham's importance to Bruce Wayne. In that sense hundreds of Gothamites being blown to shreds is a more worrying scenario for him than being beaten in a brawl.

I know some people think The Riddler, The Penguin or even The Black Mask would be too similar to The Joker for any sequel but I don't agree. There's one key aspect to The Joker that's been overlooked - as he put it himself, does he look like a man with a plan? Sure, he wanted to bring Harvey down to his level and toy with Batman, but he was willing to do whatever it took to get them there. Either of the other rogues I've mentioned would have a more direct goal, and only Black Mask is likely to have to employ any similar tactics to The Joker in order to obtain it.

The only real 'physical threat' I'd like to see would be Deadshot, but that's because I think he'd work well with Batman being hunted down. And even then I'd prefer him as a second-tier character.

I saw a one-on-one fight with Batman. It involved dogs and a crowbar.

^Don't forget Catwoman! She can give Batman an emotional beatdown. t:

She could give me a physical beatdown any day.

 

[jwhitehouse]

Ya mean the guy with the concentrated lightning, the fear gas, and the monster men? No thanks.

Well not that version. I was thinking more psychologically.

It's clear Nolan doesn't really care for the classic modus operandi of villains: Aside from Fear Toxin, nothing Ra's, Falcone, Joker, or Harvey does in either movie is really grounded from the comics. The closes was the cliche ninjas of the League of Shadows, but they were pushed aside asap, and only used to show that Wayne would not kill. Does anyone think the Riddler would have to leave messages at crime scenes to be an effective Riddler? Probably not, though that is workable enough to provide some leeway in reality. A closer comparison is the umbrella machine gun: That would not be a Nolan interpretation of the Penguin, and rightfully so. Analogously, Strange wouldn't have lightning.

Having someone independent obsessed with finding out who Batman is strikes a chord; there's going to be some liason with the government.

To use an analogy, I'm more concerned with the motive than the means. Figure out the logical motive of the next villain, and then fit the means into the world Nolan created.

By contrast, the Burton/Schumacher films only concerned themselves with the means, and then tried to apply them as drastically as possible. Motive was skin deep, even with a Freeze origin story that should have been done much, much better.

Who cares what tools Strange uses? Does it really matter if Penguin has an umbrella? Why so much talk about Black Mask, with so little talk about what the character of Black Mask means?

 

[Cunning Stunts]

What if Black Mask was a low-timer in the mob under Penguin? Maybe something like a hitman.

For example: Roman Sionis is a soldier for Penguin's mafia who wants to be higher up in the mob (or may want more money, more power, some sort of motivation in this area)... Perhaps, a consigliere of some sort. So, since he can't work his way up, he creates the Black Mask identity so as not to be uncovered by his fellow soldiers, and begins killing off The Penguin's closest advisors and protectors. However, this proves to be much harder than it sounds in his head, as The Penguin has his business pretty well protected- almost impenetrable.

Then, he decides, the best way to get ahead, is to begin using this masked identity to create his own mob, or- even worse- take out the bosses of other mobs, unite them, take control, and fight The Penguin for power in Gotham.

Hell, if someone wants to include Clayface as a more minor character, Black Mask could have taken Basil Karlo out of the mob with him and began making masks for him, and having him do more of the dirty work that either he can't handle or that he simply doesn't want to do.

Thoughts?

 

[Cunning Stunts]

Possibly, but he's taller than Bale though. A Penguin who's taller than Batman wouldn't work for me.

Pop quiz question number one: Who was the tallest actor who portrayed a member of the Fellowship in the Lord of the Rings trilogy?

Answer: John Rhys-Davies.

Pop quiz question number two: What character did he portray?

Answer: Gimli. A.k.a. the shortest member of The Fellowship.

Get over the aesthetics, people. They can be worked around.

 

[REDophile]

Does anyone think the Riddler would have to leave messages at crime scenes to be an effective Riddler? Probably not, though that is workable enough to provide some leeway in reality. A closer comparison is the umbrella machine gun: That would not be a Nolan interpretation of the Penguin, and rightfully so. Analogously, Strange wouldn't have lightning.

Yeah there are ways Nolan can work in the other traditional villains. Penguin can be done realistically without being deformed, with an umbrella and other weaponry rivaling that of Wayne Enterprises. For what Nolan is looking for, the Riddler is probably the easiest, a real-life, psychological criminal.

These characters are interpreted differently; the Jack Nicholson Joker was more of a circus clown while the Ledger version is simply a deranged psychopath. After TDK, Nolan should be able to offer a more realistic take to contrast the Danny DeVito Penguin and the Jim Carrey Riddler.

 

[sabetoonth]

no comment

 

[sabetoonth]

no comment

anf as far as hush goes he should be left relitivily intact, no one mentioned any one by the name of dent in bb, and then bam! here he is, and we were only shown a small part of bruces earlier years.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Hush is a *****. Yea in the recent comics he has been made a bit better. But to me, a villain that becomes a villain because his parents didn't die and Bruces did and all that crap is seriously weak.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

I don't think Nolan would ever pick Clayface.

I don't think they should use Clayface in this franchise, because if they did, they'd have to change him to be more like something like what you've suggested, and then he just wouldn't be Clayface, not IMO anyway.

The very first appearance of Clayface (Basil Karlo) was actually a distraught actor who dons the mask of a villainous character he played in a movie (also named Clayface) when he sees that his movie was being remade.

In all actuality, the option I put up really isn't that far from the original Clayface.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

Hush is a *****. Yea in the recent comics he has been made a bit better. But to me, a villain that becomes a villain because his parents didn't die and Bruces did and all that crap is seriously weak.

Honestly, as much as I like Hush (mainly because of his methods of operation, suit, and gunslinging), his motivation and backstory are just ******ed and badly told. Loeb and Lee did a terrible job at bringing Hush into the Batman rogues gallery, which shames me to say because I like both peoples' works (generally).

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea same here. He is a cool looking villain and his methods are interesting. But all that falls apart when you think about his motives.

 

[Temple Fugate]

I think the Clock King could come into the movies without much modification.

just rip him right out of the B:TAS episode "The Clock King"

 

[Artistsean]

I thought of that once, way before Nolan stepped in, I thought Christopher Lloyd could play him.
He could be a bit character even.

 

[Blaztro]

My idea for riddler is that he is a computer genius, and hacker. He therefore basically shuts down gotham power, water, gas, etc. from his secret hideout, which turns out to be Arkham, where he has his dayjob. However, he makes a sort of puzzle to turn it back on. Also, he has to have an english accent. He would wear a green trenchcoat with a question mark in black on the breastpocket. His staff is a concealed assault rifle. After being beat by batman (not physically, they haven't even met face-to-face yet), he kidnaps Alfred, havng deduced the bat's identity, and when batman finds where they are, he sneaks up on riddler, only to be attacked by the Amygdala, who is just a buff guy with anger issues. After beating the Amygdala, riddler panics and shoots at batman, who is more or less okay. Then the police come in and take them away. All three of them. But Batman "escapes" before being unmasked, which is when the Riddler's employer, and the real mastermind, is revealed: Two-Face. He flips his silver dollar, and resolves to blow up the asylum. However, Batman talks sense into hm, and he agrees to go into rehab. Then Batman is cleared of his crimes.

 

[kid dropper]

so many questions......... let me start with this : why does he HAVE to be English?

 

[Blaztro]

Because (no offense to any english people) English people have the uncanny ability to sound both suave and schitzophrenic at the same time, at least in my mind. And that would mean David Tennant would win out over Johnny Depp.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

You haven't heard me speak then!

 

[sabetoonth]

should we?

 

[Heretic]

Id change Robin into an executive at Wayne Enterprises that never speaks.

 

[sabetoonth]

why?

and no...robin...eeevvverrrrrr.