The Dark Knight In Heath We Trust: A Ledgerbration: The TDK Joker Appreciation Thread

[Hole Shot]

His passionate and believable performance ROCKED the US and there wouldn't have been so much controversy if the film didn't really start changing how people look at love and homosexuality because of what these actors did.

You make people hate Brokeback Mountain.

Full nudity is allowed for both genders in rated R movies. It's just rarely the men because naked women are more likely to sell films =P You only get NC-17 if there is graphic sexuality, porn basically is the only thing to get an NC-17 rating.

Porn gets an X.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Respectfully disagree.

Like I said, a very fine impersonation. Impersonating however, is not acting. Not to me anyway. Heath wasn't pretending to be a person who had previously existed, he didn't have the luxury of studying video tapes and copying voices and manerisms. He had to make this wild character out of nothing, with all his extremes and yet make him seem so real and believable.

As um... quirky as this argument is I agree. I believe it would be far more difficult for a straight man to feign utter, uncontrollable passion towards another man, while also believably acting extremely repressed in 1960s Montana and torn by his own feelings, to get over any and all discomfort one might have during those intense love scenes (though they weren't that long in the film, they would have been shot for days to get them just right...) and I think that kind of bravery and openness as an actor is far more difficult and impressive than doing a funny voice.

To me, though I may be wrong, this comes across as though you've not even seen the film "Capote", and have just decided it's a mediocre performance. I don't necessarily blame you, it's an easy response to make in the face of disappointment. I really wanted Scorcese and Daniel Day-Lewis to win Best Director and Best Actor respectively for "Gangs of New York", so when Roman Polanski and Adrien Brody won instead for "The Pianist" (which I hadn't seen), I resented that, and concocted a bunch of reasons in my head for why they could have won, politics etc, and telling people "The Pianist" wasn't all that great. Then when I actually saw the film, it was great, really blew me away. And I regretted my ill-informed, premature, biased remarks from before. I think you may find yourself in the same situation should you see Philip Seymour Hoffman's performance in "Capote".

It's easy to dismiss Philip Seymour Hoffman as just "putting on a funny voice" in "Capote". But you conveniently neglect to mention that Hoffman, like Ledger, was a straight actor playing a homosexual, and, like Ledger, had romantic scenes with men. And while you may think it's easy to play a real person, it comes with a whole new kind of baggage. Namely, you're battling against people's own memories of the original by giving your own interpretation, and trying to balance putting your own creative stamp on the performance with staying true to the actual person.

Truman Capote is a figure still looked on fondly in New York society as a camp, quirky character, and Hoffman captures that, as seen in the marketing. But he goes beyond that, and beneath the surface to perform a portrait of a man who is actually petty and vindictive, and - as opposed to the image the real Capote created of himself - actually very serious. It's a portrayal that in lesser hands would make Capote an incredibly unsympathetic protagonist - a hateable one, even - but Hoffman draws out the humanity of it, underneath all the other layers, and makes us connect with this man's unique, off-key vision of the world.

I hate this trend on these forums of having to bring down "the other guy" in order to support "your guy". Ledger's performance was Oscar-worthy, yes. But Hoffman's performance was equally deserving of an Oscar. The deciding factor probably ended up being that "Capote" was the latest in a long, long line of great performances by Hoffman, none of which had received Academy Award recognition. It seemed like Ledger was still young, and had a long, great career ahead of him, plenty of time to give him an Oscar down the line. Tragically, this has turned out not to be the case.

 

[TheDarkVictory]

Full nudity is allowed for both genders in rated R movies. It's just rarely the men because naked women are more likely to sell films =P You only get NC-17 if there is graphic sexuality, porn basically is the only thing to get an NC-17 rating.

not true, it's mainly just anything that truly, deeply offends the delicate sensibilities of the morons who run the MPAA- for example, clerks was originally given an NC-17, solely for dialogue. porn usually doesn't even have a rating. NC-17 is for things that are to be theatrically released.

 

[weezerspider]

Lets be honest, if Heath wins an Oscar for Mister J, there is going to be a lot of people who are going to say it was a fluke and they gave it to him because of his tragic death. The Oscars are stupid anyways. They ignore what the people like and just go with the most "artistic" film which is not always the best.

As for Ledger, if he deserves the award, he should get it. A character like "the Joker" is hard to portray.

 

[The Senator]

Sorry, but I just find what Heath did to be utterly amazing and ground breaking. His passionate and believable performance ROCKED the US and there wouldn't have been so much controversy if the film didn't really start changing how people look at love and homosexuality because of what these actors did.

Now that's funny.

"Brokeback Mountain" came out two and a half years ago, and views towards homosexuality have yet to really change in this country. Things are still the same. Heath Ledger's performance as Enis Del Mar didn't take the nation by storm, nor did it start a revolution. And, the queer community doesn't really accept the role as all that 'groundbreaking,' considering there were countless other movies with gay characters to come before it. It was mainstream, and accepted as a mainstream film, and that's about it.

 

[The Senator]

Lets be honest, if Heath wins an Oscar for Mister J, there is going to be a lot of people who are going to say it was a fluke and they gave it to him because of his tragic death. The Oscars are stupid anyways. They ignore what the people like and just go with the most "artistic" film which is not always the best.

As for Ledger, if he deserves the award, he should get it. A character like "the Joker" is hard to portray.

I liked all of the performances which won this year. And I liked most of the performances which won last year. I think the Academy gets it right more often than not.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Now that's funny.

"Brokeback Mountain" came out two and a half years ago, and views towards homosexuality have yet to really change in this country. Things are still the same. Heath Ledger's performance as Enis Del Mar didn't take the nation by storm, nor did it start a revolution. And, the queer community doesn't really accept the role as all that 'groundbreaking,' considering there were countless other movies with gay characters to come before it. It was mainstream, and accepted as a mainstream film, and that's about it.

This is a controversial opinion, I know. But in my opinion, Gay Perry from "Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang" was a far more "revolutionary" gay character than Ennis Del Mar. I say this, because with Gay Perry, he's this kick-ass action hero, who just happens to be gay, almost incidentally. With Ennis, being gay is this horrible burden that defines his life. Fair enough, that's the nature of the story. But I think a homosexual character who heterosexual teenage boys think is bad-ass and cool is, in its own way, doing a lot more to make homosexuality "acceptable" in more mainstream circles.

 

[weezerspider]

I liked all of the performances which won this year. And I liked most of the performances which won last year. I think the Academy gets it right more often than not.

I've been pretty pleased recently, but sometimes there are some WTF moments. My biggest complaint of all probably was when Saving Private Ryan got screwed and did not win Best Picture. I will say the last two movies of the year (No Country For Old Men and The Departed) have been right on.

 

[The Senator]

This is a controversial opinion, I know. But in my opinion, Gay Perry from "Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang" was a far more "revolutionary" gay character than Ennis Del Mar. I say this, because with Gay Perry, he's this kick-ass action hero, who just happens to be gay, almost incidentally. With Ennis, being gay is this horrible burden that defines his life. Fair enough, that's the nature of the story. But I think a homosexual character who heterosexual teenage boys think is bad-ass and cool is, in its own way, doing a lot more to make homosexuality "acceptable" in more mainstream circles.

I would agree with this. Del Mar was a great character. But I don't think he was revolutionary. Nor is the story all that revolutionary, to be honest. There was an Israeli film about the same topic (except the characters were soldiers, not cowboys) which came out a few years before 'Brokeback.'

The whole premise reminds me of that 'South Park' episode where a Sundance-like film festival comes to town, and Cartman says that all independent movies are like a bunch of gay cowboys sitting around eating pudding. And wouldn't you know it, 'Brokeback' is an independent movie about two gay cowboys. I thought it just fed into more stereotypes. 'Philadelphia' was a much more mainstream and revolutionary film, with a much more sympathetic and 'revolutionary' story line.

'Brokeback' was a good movie, but it's anything but mainstream or revolutionary.

 

[The Senator]

I've been pretty pleased recently, but sometimes there are some WTF moments. My biggest complaint of all probably was when Saving Private Ryan got screwed and did not win Best Picture. I will say the last two movies of the year (No Country For Old Men and The Departed) have been right on.

That's because the Academy was split between 'Saving Private Ryan' and 'Elizabeth.' The Academy split the vote so much that a spoiler like 'Shakespeare in Love' won instead of one of two films which really deserved it. It happens a lot. That's probably why 'Crash' won in 2005, and why 'Gladiator' won in 2000.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I would agree with this. Del Mar was a great character. But I don't think he was revolutionary. Nor is the story all that revolutionary, to be honest. There was an Israeli film about the same topic (except the characters were soldiers, not cowboys) which came out a few years before 'Brokeback.'

The whole premise reminds me of that 'South Park' episode where a Sundance-like film festival comes to town, and Cartman says that all independent movies are like a bunch of gay cowboys sitting around eating pudding. And wouldn't you know it, 'Brokeback' is an independent movie about two gay cowboys. I thought it just fed into more stereotypes. 'Philadelphia' was a much more mainstream and revolutionary film, with a much more sympathetic and 'revolutionary' story line.

'Brokeback' was a good movie, but it's anything but mainstream or revolutionary.

I was going to mention "Philadelphia" too. That brought into mainstream Hollywood the idea that homosexuals shouldn't be pariahs, and we should sympathise with the plights they have to face. Thematically, at least, "Brokeback Mountain" doesn't progress that sentiment all that much.

That doesn't take away, however, from the fact that Jake Gyllenhaal, and especially Heath Ledger, gave excellent performances.

 

[The Senator]

I was going to mention "Philadelphia" too. That brought into mainstream Hollywood the idea that homosexuals shouldn't be pariahs, and we should sympathise with the plights they have to face. Thematically, at least, "Brokeback Mountain" doesn't progress that sentiment all that much.

That doesn't take away, however, from the fact that Jake Gyllenhaal, and especially Heath Ledger, gave excellent performances.

I agree. They gave excellent performances, each with a lot of depth. However, I don't believe either performance was the best of the year, in their respective categories. I thought Hoffman deserved his Oscar, and that Paul Giamatti deserved the Oscar over Gyllenhaal (though it eventually went to Clooney).

 

[weezerspider]

That's because the Academy was split between 'Saving Private Ryan' and 'Elizabeth.' The Academy split the vote so much that a spoiler like 'Shakespeare in Love' won instead of one of two films which really deserved it. It happens a lot. That's probably why 'Crash' won in 2005, and why 'Gladiator' won in 2000.

I understand that, but it would be nice if they could solve the problem without giving the award away to a "spoiler", but everything has at least a few flaws.

I gotta admit though, I love Gladiator and was glad it won.

 

[The Senator]

I understand that, but it would be nice if they could solve the problem without giving the award away to a "spoiler", but everything has at least a few flaws.

I gotta admit though, I love Gladiator and was glad it won.

I thought "Traffic" deserved it that year, but Gladiator was a close second imo.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I agree. They gave excellent performances, each with a lot of depth. However, I don't believe either performance was the best of the year, in their respective categories. I thought Hoffman deserved his Oscar, and that Paul Giamatti deserved the Oscar over Gyllenhaal (though it eventually went to Clooney).

And Clooney himself summed up the reasoning for that award in his acceptance speech:

"Well.... I guess this means I won't be winning Best Director."

 

[ThePunchLine]

Would this be old news by now?

http://empireonline.com.au/news/story.asp?NID=1000002633

 

[The Senator]

Would this be old news by now?

http://empireonline.com.au/news/story.asp?NID=1000002633

I can win a trip to Dubai! Awesome!

 

[ThePunchLine]

Lol....i suppose you overlooked the whole Heath ghost story eh

 

[The Senator]

The link only went to the Empire Online homepage for me.

 

[Loneranger]

Warner Bros. has to deal with another actor death after A young actor cast as Ravenclaw in the next Harry Potter was stabbed to death. WB said they were deeply shocked.

...Only another 7 weeks, 4 days til 'The Dark Knight.'

 

[ThePunchLine]

Must not like linking direct to stories.


Ill post the article:

23 May 2008

Producer 'haunted' by vision of Heath
Claims Michelle Williams sees him too
Source: Defamer/CYInterview

Late Australian star Heath Ledger appeared to a Hollywood producer in an eerie bathroom 'vision', in which the actor thought about his daughter, Matilda – and allegedly haunts his ex, Michelle Williiams.

In an online interview, James Van Praagh – who has a special, ahem, “gift” for channeling spiritual energy as the executive producer of the Jennifer Love Hewitt TV series The Ghost Whisperer – claims Ledger visited him two weeks after the star's untimely death.

"I was shaving and right behind on the right side in the mirror his face appeared," Van Praagh recalls, "and he said to me in my head that I screwed up. Now he knew me. We didn't know each other directly, but we had mutual friends and he knew what I did. Then he thought about his daughter and that was it."

The producer also went on to claim that Ledger’s ex, Michelle Williams, has also been haunted by visions of the star – and that he’s working on consulting with her about it.

“Then the next thing I heard about Michelle, his ex, at their apartment in Brooklyn she's been haunted by him twice. Once she was awakened at 3:00 AM by furniture moving and another time at 4:00 AM in the morning. She said she knew it was him. There was a shadowy figure at the end of her bed. She knows it's him. I do get a sense that he is restless right now and really wants to speak with her. Actually as I speak I am working on doing a reading for her.”

So, Heath Ledger: troubled poltergeist stuck in trans-dimensional limbo, perhaps waiting for that posthumous Oscar nomination for his out-there performance as The Joker? Is this simply another crackpot’s publicity scheme, or – crank up the conspiracy theory – another devious viral marketing campaign for the forthcoming Batman sequel The Dark Knight?

Luke Goodsell

 

[ThePunchLine]

I thought "Traffic" deserved it that year, but Gladiator was a close second imo.

Traffic was over-rated IMHO.

The ending was way too cliche.

Crash was another one which was OK but best film? Please.

 

[The Senator]

"Crash" gets worse every time I see it. "Good Night and Good Luck" was the best film of 2005, imo.

 

[redfirebird2008]

"Crash" gets worse every time I see it. "Good Night and Good Luck" was the best film of 2005, imo.

Blasphemy in the Batman forums on a site like this!

 

[The Senator]

Blasphemy in the Batman forums on a site like this!

Yes, it was even better than 'Batman Begins,' as far as I'm concerned.