Interstellar - Part 4

[titansupes]

Sums it up.

 

[Deserana]

It seems an entirely absurd notion to me that one single film would make the Academy change something they have had for decades. I mean seriously for TDK? Its not even the most critically acclaimed or the est of its year much less of 50 years to make the Academy change its rules.

Why? When a movie had such a big impact on the film world why is it so absurd? You can't deny that TDK impacted the zeitgeist at the time.

Its an fan notion to me. Specially like I said that the Academy did not in any way honor on its supposed intention to let in "more popular" films. People said it was 5 films earlier nominated that were Academy type. We instead now have 9-10 Academy type movies nominated.

That's simply what they said, I don't think anybody believed they would go through with it. And besides it wasn't simply because it was popular! It was because TDK was a very very good film that was worthy. It wasn't simply a schmucky film that got a billion dollars and everyone was "duhhh hey guys u dnt lyk da film dat i lykeed"! It was a film that featured memorable performances, strong dialogue, strong script and story. It was a film worthy of a nomination that was completely looked over because it was bellow them.

If this was simply the popular film getting bashed I'd slightly agree with you but not since has any billion dollar movie or "popular" film had even remotely the same push as TDK got from people. It is unique to TDK.

Neither the quality of the movie in question nor the Academy's choices post the change indicate that said movie was responsible. Hell they changed the best picture system again in 2011 after 2009. Tells you how much a single movie has an impact.

So? That's because in the next year the popular films included Harry Potter 6, Transformers 2, Ice Age 3 and 2012. The "Popular" film of the year was Avatar. And that was nominated. In 2010 the "popular" film was Inception and that was nominated.

The reason these other popular films weren't even considered nomination is because they weren't even anywhere near the same same quality as TDK to many many people. We aren't simply talking about popular we're talking about popular AND great.

I could mention Mike Leigh's Happy Go Lucky and say it wasn't nominated for Best Picture so Academy changed its rules. Its neither here nor there. One Academy member does not reflect the sentiments of the entire Academy nor has the power to change rules.

Oh come on. That isn't even a reasonable argument. People were saying TDK was oscar worthy after it came out long before the nominations from both the public and critics and those voices got louder and louder after it was snubbed in a time where those voices could actually be expressed and heard. How can you compare that to a small Mike Leigh film?

The Academy is absolutely immune to public pressure or critical pressure. Favorites of critics and GA routinely fall by the wayside in the Oscar race.

Again I find it entirely absurd that - that one single film (TDK at that) triggered the Academy into changing their rules - is found to be a believable notion in any way.

Why? People sight single films all the for how they changed cinema. People say Star Wars began the blockbuster and that Die Hard defined thee action film. It is hardly an incomprehensible notion that one film had a strong hand in changing the oscars. Same way as some say that some acting awards are given out to actors as an "apology" for not getting an award previously.

 

[redfirebird2008]

The King's Speech – Iain Canning, Emile Sherman, and Gareth Unwin
127 Hours – Danny Boyle and Christian Colson
Black Swan – Scott Franklin, Mike Medavoy, and Brian Oliver
The Fighter – David Hoberman, Todd Lieberman, and Mark Wahlberg
Inception – Christopher Nolan and Emma Thomas
The Kids Are All Right – Gary Gilbert, Jeffrey Levy-Hinte, and Celine Rattray
The Social Network – Dana Brunetti, Ceán Chaffin, Michael De Luca, and Scott Rudin
Toy Story 3 – Darla K. Anderson
True Grit – Ethan Coen, Joel Coen, and Scott Rudin
Winter's Bone – Alix Madigan and Anne Rosellini

Though The King's Speech was clearly not the best movie, it's not obvious that Inception was.

I didn't say it was. Nolan should have been nominated for Director though.

 

[The Shape]

Okay, so apparently TDK wasn't a big deal then?
I'll just go ahead and agree with you guys. You're all correct. TDK was just a regular movie. I'll stop posting on the matter.

I don't think anyone is suggesting anything close to that, but it really just doesn't matter at this point. There's no need to debate TDK's greatness or impact.

 

[Travesty]

TDK was a big deal. It did have a huge impact. But to start "rationalizing" that every Nolan movie will surpass, or is even in the same league, as Avatar or Titanic is just asinine. You do it every time.

 

[Deserana]

Titanic I understand. But Avatar I'm 50/50 with. Yes it was revolutionary with Special effects but TDK is still very much within today's culture and is still brought up regularly among film discussions Avatar really isn't outside of it's technological advances which now isn't unique with Avatar after the intriduction of motion capture and continuously advancing special effects. TDK still to this day is having an impact on how movies are being made. The darker comic book movies and darker tones to recently more light franchises. Even now people compare DawnOTPOTA to TDK in its approach and tone. You don't have many people comparing to Avatar. When there is a lot of people questioning whether or not it is too late for your sequels you should be worried. But I'd argue that TDK is currently is still strongly amongst today's film culture wheras as Avatar has ever so slightly been shoved off to the side a little.

Yes the discussion of TDK's impact may be old but aren;t we here to discuss movies and there isn't a lot of Interstellar news around

 

[DA_Champion]

Slumcat dismissed The Dark Knight as a dumb comics film and pointed to the Searchers as an example of a great film.

I wonder if The Searchers was dismissed by many as a cowboy film in its time?

It did receive zero academy award nominations.

Ultimately, the reason I think that the dark knight will eventuallybbe regarded as a masterpiece even by many snobs is that so many other films are copying it. Skyfall, Avengers, First Class, Dawn of the Planet of the Apes all lift from dark knight. Some bad movies copy it as well: Thor 2, Amazing Spider Man, Robocop. This is only a partial list by the way.

 

[DA_Champion]

I didn't say it was. Nolan should have been nominated for Director though.

I'm sorry, I misunderstood your post

 

[Rocketman]

Slumcat dismissed The Dark Knight as a dumb comics film and pointed to tge Searchers as an example of a great film.

I wonder if The Searchers was dismissed by many as a cowboy film in its time?

It did receive zero academy award nominations.

Ultimately, the reason I think that the dark knight will eventuallybbe regarded as a masterpiece even by many snobs is that so many other films are copying it. Skyfall, Avengers, First Class, Dawn of the Planet of the Apes all lift from dark knight. Some bad movies copy it as well: Thor 2, Amazing Spider Man, Robocop. This is only a partial list by the way.

100% correct. It was a trend-setter. Skyfall and Star Trek Into Darkness are the biggest examples to me.

 

[Rocketman]

Titanic I understand. But Avatar I'm 50/50 with. Yes it was revolutionary with Special effects but TDK is still very much within today's culture and is still brought up regularly among film discussions Avatar really isn't outside of it's technological advances which now isn't unique with Avatar after the intriduction of motion capture and continuously advancing special effects. TDK still to this day is having an impact on how movies are being made. The darker comic book movies and darker tones to recently more light franchises. Even now people compare DawnOTPOTA to TDK in its approach and tone. You don't have many people comparing to Avatar. When there is a lot of people questioning whether or not it is too late for your sequels you should be worried. But I'd argue that TDK is currently is still strongly amongst today's film culture wheras as Avatar has ever so slightly been shoved off to the side a little.

Yes the discussion of TDK's impact may be old but aren;t we here to discuss movies and there isn't a lot of Interstellar news around

Stop making sense. Travesty doesn't like that.

 

[DA_Champion]

OT: The laziest mimics of The Dark Knight are those that put the word "dark" into the titles of their movie.

Star Trek into Darkness
Thor: The Dark World.

 

[Brother Jack]

Sums it up.

Especially the bat-boards or pretty much any time Batman and/or Nolan is brought up.

 

[Travesty]

Stop making sense. Travesty doesn't like that.

Heh, and what did you tell me again? TDKR was going to surpass Avatar? The Avengers was going to do nothing at the box office? And that now TDK was the biggest movie since Titanic? How did all these things turn out?

Yes, please, by all means, "stop making sense", Rocketman. Your wisdom and foresight is too much for me to bear

 

[Kane52630]

Heh, and what did you tell me again? TDKR was going to surpass Avatar? The Avengers was going to do nothing at the box office? And that now TDK was the biggest movie since Titanic? How did all these things turn out?

Yes, please, by all means, "stop making sense", Rocketman. Your wisdom and foresight is too much for me to bear

Now that's a burn for yo ass.

 

[DA_Champion]

I wouldn't mind seeing a professional analysis of the pop culture impact of TDK.

 

[Deserana]

It's huge. Yes I'm a big Nolan fan but I consider myself quite reasonable, I'm one of the people who feel Interstellar could underperform rather than "OHMAGEEZ it's gona mke jJABEZILJLLION DOLLARRZ! nolan *** YAAAA! FTW".
But just the other week there was british TV show with someone dressing up as Heath Ledger's Joker. Even saying "Why So Serious", it was Ledger's Joker not The Joker, Ledger's.

Just at first glance you can tell any element of that movie. Avatar whilst of course had huge impacts on movie technology is nowhere near is popular amongst the general pop culture.

I can't even think of anything I've seen this year that even referenced Avatar, The TDK trilogy I could easily name many from the last few years. The Office had a gag with multiple people dressing up as Ledger's Joker, Community had someone as Ledger's Joker, We're The Millers Jason Sudekis does Bane, Parks and Rec had a few TDK specific jokes, The Newsroom had a few mentions of the film in an episode whilst trying to explain the plot of their own episode, Neighbors just recently had a scene where they were doing Bale impressions, The Lego Movie of all Batman films to pull stuff from pulled quotes from TDK. I literally just pulled them from mind and I'm sure there is more.

Titanic of course is a different beast and I cant honestly say TDK had more of an impact than that. Maybe in 10 years that argument can be made if TDK is still as popular but Titanic is still very much in the public consciousness 15 or so years on. Heck just look at Leo on SNL with Jonah Hill even on mute you know exactly what they're replicating. If you had Sam Worthington recreating a scene from Avatar on SNL it would probably take you a few seconds to realise what it was.

 

[The Shape]

But...who cares and why does this matter right now?

 

[Deserana]

It doesn't. In the wider scale nothing in the movie industry "matters". It was simply the topic being discussed. What's the point of a movie forum if when a subject is discussed, even if it is the 100 times, people moan about the topic. I'd happily talk Interstellar but there isn't much Interstellar going around.

 

[Travesty]

I can't even think of anything I've seen this year that even referenced Avatar, The TDK trilogy I could easily name many from the last few years. The Office had a gag with multiple people dressing up as Ledger's Joker, Community had someone as Ledger's Joker, We're The Millers Jason Sudekis does Bane, Parks and Rec had a few TDK specific jokes, The Newsroom had a few mentions of the film in an episode whilst trying to explain the plot of their own episode, Neighbors just recently had a scene where they were doing Bale impressions, The Lego Movie of all Batman films to pull stuff from pulled quotes from TDK. I literally just pulled them from mind and I'm sure there is more.

Well, if we're going to go by that rational, I can cite just as much, if not more, Twilight references within TV shows/pop culture. Are you to tell me that Twilight had a bigger impact than Avatar, or was just as big, if not more than TDK?

 

[DA_Champion]

Well, if we're going to go by that rational, I can site just as much, if not more, Twilight references within TV shows/pop culture. Are you to tell me that Twilight had a bigger impact than Avatar, or was just as big, if not more than TDK?

Just because Twilight is mediocre doesn't mean it can't have a pop culture impact. It is extremely widely read, and unlike Avatar, widely loved.

Though to be honest I don't see it referenced much.

 

[Deserana]

If you'd like. It doesn't really ruin my argument. I was simply comparing the lasting impact between Avatar in TDK, two films both huge succeses and in different ways groundbreaking one of which recognised at the oscars and one (seen by many as unfairly) not and IMO the one that didn't wins it out by a large margin. If you want to needlessly throw Twilight in there then ok. But I dont know why.

 

[DA_Champion]

If you'd like. It doesn't really ruin my argument. I was simply comparing the lasting impact between Avatar in TDK, two films both huge succeses and in different ways groundbreaking one of which recognised at the oscars and one (seen by many as unfairly) not and IMO the one that didn't wins it out by a large margin. If you want to needlessly throw Twilight in there then ok. But I dont know why.

People often bring up Twilight/Transformers when they're too lazy or otherwise incalable of constructing a genuine argument.

 

[weezerspider]

I work in the industry, have studied film basically all of my life. Myself and 90% of my fellow colleagues in the industry love TDK. Some people in the industry may not hold it quite as high as fanboys, but it and Nolan are very well respected in the industry from an artistic and commercial standpoint. Denying that is honestly, well, wrong. There's not really any other way to put it.

 

[Travesty]

If you'd like. It doesn't really ruin my argument. I was simply comparing the lasting impact between Avatar in TDK, two films both huge succeses and in different ways groundbreaking one of which recognised at the oscars and one (seen by many as unfairly) not and IMO the one that didn't wins it out by a large margin. If you want to needlessly throw Twilight in there then ok. But I dont know why.

And my point was to show that "lasting appeal in pop culture" doesn't necessarily equate to a higher amount of quality, which you were obviously trying to sell.

So basically, I was saying, is Twilight a better movie than Avatar, because it has more pop culture relevance?

 

[jmc]

It seems an entirely absurd notion to me that one single film would make the Academy change something they have had for decades. I mean seriously for TDK? Its not even the most critically acclaimed or the est of its year much less of 50 years to make the Academy change its rules.

Its an fan notion to me. Specially like I said that the Academy did not in any way honor on its supposed intention to let in "more popular" films. People said it was 5 films earlier nominated that were Academy type. We instead now have 9-10 Academy type movies nominated.

Neither the quality of the movie in question nor the Academy's choices post the change indicate that said movie was responsible. Hell they changed the best picture system again in 2011 after 2009. Tells you how much a single movie has an impact.

I could mention Mike Leigh's Happy Go Lucky and say it wasn't nominated for Best Picture so Academy changed its rules. Its neither here nor there. One Academy member does not reflect the sentiments of the entire Academy nor has the power to change rules.

The Academy is absolutely immune to public pressure or critical pressure. Favorites of critics and GA routinely fall by the wayside in the Oscar race.

Again I find it entirely absurd that - that one single film (TDK at that) triggered the Academy into changing their rules - is found to be a believable notion in any way.

Then Academy president Sid Ganis after the expansion:

“I would not be telling you the truth if I said the words ‘Dark Knight’ did not come up.”

Seems pretty black and white to me.