Interstellar - Part 4

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DA_Champion said:
Slumcat dismissed The Dark Knight as a dumb comics film and pointed to the Searchers as an example of a great film.

I wonder if The Searchers was dismissed by many as a cowboy film in its time?

It did receive zero academy award nominations.

Ultimately, the reason I think that the dark knight will eventuallybbe regarded as a masterpiece even by many snobs is that so many other films are copying it. Skyfall, Avengers, First Class, Dawn of the Planet of the Apes all lift from dark knight. Some bad movies copy it as well: Thor 2, Amazing Spider Man, Robocop. This is only a partial list by the way.
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How did Avengers, First Class or Dawn of the Planet of the Apes lift from The Dark Knight?

The only thing similar in Skyfall was how the villain purposefully let himself get caught and was two steps ahead of the good guys. And it's not like The Dark Knight invented that trope.

If any film got snubbed in the 2008 Oscars it was The Wrestler anyway. I'm sure that, as well as TDK, contributed to them allowing more Best Pic nominations.
 
The Endless said:
How did Avengers, First Class or Dawn of the Planet of the Apes lift from The Dark Knight?

The only thing similar in Skyfall was how the villain purposefully let himself get caught and was two steps ahead of the good guys. And it's not like The Dark Knight invented that trope.
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For Skyfall, it was sold that way to the executives when the story was pitched. You can google more specific examples I'm on a cellphone, lewis wallace of wired has a good article.

TDK may not have invented that plot device but it popularized it.

Avengers also had the villain infiltrate the base by getting caught to destroy the base. Loki's goal was to unleash the hulk, and he's all about corrupting the other side and tricks. The Loki-Widow interrogation scene may be inspired by the joker batman interrogation scene.

The scene in Dawn of the Apes of Koba lifting his head out of the tank is thematically and stylistically identical to that of the Joker having his head outside of the police car. It's not plagiarism though -- it's an homage.

In First Class the aesthetic of the scene where Shaw converts Magneto to the dark side in the submarine is played similarly to the scene where Joker seduces Dent. They use the same camera angles and same strategy of having Shaw give a damning speech on the rest of society. The direction of First Class acknowledges the origins of this scene, as Magneto kills Shaw by flying a coin through his skull, similarly to how Dent considered sending a bullet through Joker's skull by flipping a coin.
 
Skyfall yea. I think i did read an article where Mendes said he drew influence from TDK in some aspects. But i think Skyfall is a better executed film that is very much unique in how it plays with Bond specific tropes. And let's not kid ourselves, Nolan's Bat films and overall style is influenced by Bond films of the past. I mean Lucius Fox is practically Q. So it kinda comes full circle.

The rest is tenuous at best, especially the thing about the coin. Many movies have the villain getting caught on purpose and wanting to corrupt the good guys. Hell there is movies where the good guy gets purposefully caught so he can try to reason with the bad guys, like Return of the Jedi.

First Class is more inspired by Bond movies and Shaw is more like a megalomaniacal Bond villain, monologues and all.
 
There's nothing tenuous about the coin, it's a rock-solid link. Without the link it could have been any metallic object in existence and thus most certainly not a coin. You can go through the other details too.

The Submarine is territory captured by Shaw, and the Hospital is being claimed by the Joker.
The Joker killed Rachel, Shaw killed Eric's mother.
The camera angles are the same.
Both are the climax of the central character arcs of their films.

I'm surprised that you would deny this.
 
I haven't seen it in a while so can't comment on the camera angles.

I don't see how you can compare the sub and the hospital. The sub is Shaw's, he owns it. He never captured it. Magneto goes to him, he doesn't go to Magneto like the Joker seeks out Dent. Shaw is basically trying to save his own life by persuading Magneto to follow his ideals. Magneto agrees with his ideals, but still kills him out of revenge. Dent is totally corrupted by Joker and doesn't kill him. He's a bit of a idiot really.

The coin holding personal significance to each character... ok i agree with that. But that climatic scene, the only way i see a connection is that First Class basically reverses it. Mags agrees with Shaw, but still kills him. Dent is fooled by Joker and lets him live. Dent is weak minded, Mags isn't.

Either way i think Bond influences are much stronger on First Class. Even the score purposefully incorporates Bond-esque cues. Nolan's Bat films are also heavily influenced by Bond.
 
They can be influenced by scene without using it an identical manner. The writing for FC was very good, they didn't just throw ideas into a blender like ASM2, they adapted and tweaked them to their purposes, consciously and subconsciously. If it had been exactly the same scene it would not have worked, but we can tell that it contributed to their inspiration.

The way human creativity is never the invention of something totally new and pure, but always the mixing of old ideas previously not mixed. Everything has an inspiration or many inspirations.

And yes Bond influenced both I'm not sure why you'd brong that up? I think it's widely known that Nolan loves Bond and wants to direct a Bond movie.
 
Note: Slumcat is also the same person who unironically likes 'Legend of Hercules'.
 
DA_Champion said:
They can be influenced by scene without using it an identical manner. The writing for FC was very good, they didn't just throw ideas into a blender like ASM2, they adapted and tweaked them to their purposes, consciously and subconsciously. If it had been exactly the same scene it would not have worked, but we can tell that it contributed to their inspiration.

The way human creativity is never the invention of something totally new and pure, but always the mixing of old ideas previously not mixed. Everything has an inspiration or many inspirations.

And yes Bond influenced both I'm not sure why you'd brong that up? I think it's widely known that Nolan loves Bond and wants to direct a Bond movie.
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I get what you are saying. Vaughn is a good film maker. Funnily enough i think he'd be pretty good for Bond.

I bring up Bond because i find it strange when people say the newer Bond films copied Nolan's Bat films. Considering the heavy Bond influences on Nolan's Bat films it makes me chuckle to myself.

I'm not sure i'd want Nolan for Bond though. He can't do action or sensuality. I'd like him to do a callback to 1950s film noir, but with a ambiguously supernatural bent to it. Think along the lines of Angel Heart. That'd be a film i'd watch the hell out of.
 
Octoberist said:
Note: Slumcat is also the same person who unironically likes 'Legend of Hercules'.
Click to expand...

tumblr_n0f4yvZRyd1ser0dgo1_400.gif
 
Skyfall definitely had influences. All those other movies listed totally didn't.
 
DA_Champion said:
For Skyfall, it was sold that way to the executives when the story was pitched. You can google more specific examples I'm on a cellphone, lewis wallace of wired has a good article.

TDK may not have invented that plot device but it popularized it.

Avengers also had the villain infiltrate the base by getting caught to destroy the base. Loki's goal was to unleash the hulk, and he's all about corrupting the other side and tricks. The Loki-Widow interrogation scene may be inspired by the joker batman interrogation scene.

The scene in Dawn of the Apes of Koba lifting his head out of the tank is thematically and stylistically identical to that of the Joker having his head outside of the police car. It's not plagiarism though -- it's an homage.

In First Class the aesthetic of the scene where Shaw converts Magneto to the dark side in the submarine is played similarly to the scene where Joker seduces Dent. They use the same camera angles and same strategy of having Shaw give a damning speech on the rest of society. The direction of First Class acknowledges the origins of this scene, as Magneto kills Shaw by flying a coin through his skull, similarly to how Dent considered sending a bullet through Joker's skull by flipping a coin.
Click to expand...


I definitely felt the TDK influence on Skyfall, but the Apes and First Class comparison made me LOL.
 
Travesty said:
And my point was to show that "lasting appeal in pop culture" doesn't necessarily equate to a higher amount of quality, which you were obviously trying to sell.

So basically, I was saying, is Twilight a better movie than Avatar, because it has more pop culture relevance?
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No but nobody thinks that. I believe the original point was whether or not TDK has established itself amongst films like Avatar. And I believe it has. I never once said a lasting impact means a better film. Some were saying that TDK has no right to be in the same league as Avatar but I dont believe that as TDK is still very popular today and still being spoken about as a great gamechanging that film that still influences films today. Whilst Avatar had the special effects, that isn't something unique to that movie and that alone anymore. Bringing up it's influence on pop culture is just one way to argue it.
 
Deserana said:
No but nobody thinks that. I believe the original point was whether or not TDK has established itself amongst films like Avatar. And I believe it has. I never once said a lasting impact means a better film. Some were saying that TDK has no right to be in the same league as Avatar but I dont believe that as TDK is still very popular today and still being spoken about as a great gamechanging that film that still influences films today. Whilst Avatar had the special effects, that isn't something unique to that movie and that alone anymore. Bringing up it's influence on pop culture is just one way to argue it.
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Nobody said "it has no right to be in the same league", just that it isn't in the same league. The closest thing to Avatar is Titanic.

You're just coming in making weird pop culture comparisons, trying to make it sound like TDK is this behemoth of a movie that outshines movies like Avatar or Titanic. And I'm not trying to downplay TDK here, I'm really not, but to say it has more of an impact than those two movies? I'm sorry, I just can't agree with that. It's not even a contest here.
 
Travesty said:
Nobody said "it has no right to be in the same league", just that it isn't in the same league. The closest thing to Avatar is Titanic.

You're just coming in making weird pop culture comparisons, trying to make it sound like TDK is this behemoth of a movie that outshines movies like Avatar or Titanic. And I'm not trying to downplay TDK here, I'm really not, but to say it has more of an impact than those two movies? I'm sorry, I just can't agree with that. It's not even a contest here.
Click to expand...

But it is! It changed the Oscars and how certain films today are being approached. Arguably more so than Avatar. There are clear arguments for that but okay, I'll ask, why should Avatar be held in a higher regard.
 
theShape said:
I swear, sometimes I feel like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day when visiting the Hype.
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georgec said:
groundhog-day-bill-murray-smashes-alarm-clock.gif
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Best posts of the last two pages.

At this point, only thing that needs to be said on this topic is that TDK was seen and admired by far too many people, including many Hollywood directors, to not be acknowledged as an influential and landmark 21st century film. Inception is probably in that ballpark too.

Influences don't have to be blatant, or even conscious either. Everything influences everything in art. TDK has tons of influences of its own. Everything from Heat to Empire to The Godfather to Batman 89 and more.

No movie is ever going to reinvent the wheel. The best we can hope for is for filmmakers to internalize these various influences, throw them in a blender and present them in a fresh and exciting way, and maybe push some technical boundaries along the way. You have to acknowledge what's come before in order to be a viable voice in the community that is filmmaking. Same applies to any art- music, etc.

Nolan's proven to be increasingly exceptional and pulling off the above, that's why he's so popular, plain and simple.
 
Last edited:
So, Interstellar....

when is the new trailer coming out again?
 
Is it supposed to come that soon? I certainly hope so... just hadn't heard anything in a while.
 
I hope the trailer gets nominated for an Oscar!
 
The trailer will transcend the genre of trailers.
 
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