"Intervention" Episode 12 Discussion Thread

[Anwar]

If it was someone he knew who was killed he would have, since he lost something personal from his inaction.

But yeah, most stories where the burglar kills someone else or doesn't kill anyone Peter always ends up as this super-rich entertainment figure who is also very egotistical and selfish.

 

[November Rain]

Besides, it was only to petty crime, he'd allow parker to carry on doing things that would endanger people's life, the sort of things that made him a hero in the first place and it was a completely selfless decision to make.

Now if he had taken money from tomstone to help actively help the criminals, that's a different story entirely.

 

[varsas]

Besides, it was only to petty crime, he'd allow parker to carry on doing things that would endanger people's life, the sort of things that made him a hero in the first place and it was a completely selfless decision to make.

Now if he had taken money from tomstone to help actively help the criminals, that's a different story entirely.

Ah but it was ignoring a petty crime that lead to Uncle Ben's death; could Peter really do that again?

I do take your point about responsibility, as you stated Peter mulls it over in the finale, it's a difficult balance especially for a teenager.

 

[November Rain]

Again peter has been inconsistent in the comics

he wears a mask to not endanger the people he loved because he's worried about what his enemies could do.

once norman remembers peter parker is spiderman, he goes after and kills gwen in the comics, yet in civil war he unmasks publically (even after many attempts over the years to make sure no one knows he's spiderman) and then gets his aunt injured.

Yeah, pete isnt the brightest bulb in the box, that's for sure. Doing something like this would be entirely up his street.

The difference with tombstone's first and second offers were the first would have been pete ultimately taking the money for himself or for his wellbeing, rather than this time, it's completely selfless for his aunt.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

Actually the unmasking in Civil War makes sense. Gwen didn't die because peter was Spider-Man, she died because of the twins and as bad a story as Sins Past was it is in continuity. And MJ and may were living in Avenger Tower at the time.

 

[varsas]

^^ I would agree that he is inconsistent in the comics and he's not absolutely squeaky clean in SSM but he's still young here compared to the comics. Would Peter really make a deal with a crime lord in the early Lee/Ditko era?

I'm not sure there is that much of a difference in the offers in that I don't think he would be selfish taking the first offer. He needs money for his aunt and himself in the first instance too, although he has started making money from taking photos but financial concerns are more pressing at the time of the second offer.

 

[November Rain]

^^ Do you really believe leaving crime alone is not evil?

No, there is ultimately worse he could have done. He's not leaving all crime alone, just the organised hits not endangering anyone. That's not evil, just desperate considering his situation.

People consider spidey 2 to be the best superhero film there and yet there and in superman 2, spidey and supes both leave their responsible roles for even less reasons, selfish reasons. Would you describe them as evil?

You mention Spidey leaving crime for longer in the comics but he's a older and more cynical character. At this point in Peter's career as the webslinger he is naive and fresh from having his self-centred nature backfire on him in Uncle Ben's death. This naivety was emphasised in first confrontation with Tombstone and in his dealing with GG. With this in mind is it not against his nature to accept a deal with the "devil"?

I don't personally think spidey's cynicism has to be related to his age, rather the situation he's in and the way he ways up the positives and negatives.

He's suppose to be a real character, he isn't right like captain america or wrong like the red skull but can do right and wrong things like the majority of us and when he's doing wrong, maybe he's not aware of it (some stuff he did to eddie), he's being influenced (by evil symbiote) or he's acting in desperation for a greater goal (kingpin offer theoretically). His whole persona is getting to grips with the motto his uncle gave him and how to bring it into practice effectively for everyone.

 

[Silver Spider]

No, there is ultimately worse he could have done. He's not leaving all crime alone, just the organised hits not endangering anyone. That's not evil, just desperate considering his situation.

People consider spidey 2 to be the best superhero film there and yet there and in superman 2, spidey and supes both leave their responsible roles for even less reasons, selfish reasons. Would you describe them as evil?

I don't personally think spidey's cynicism has to be related to his age, rather the situation he's in and the way he ways up the positives and negatives.

He's suppose to be a real character, he isn't right like captain america or wrong like the red skull but can do right and wrong things like the majority of us and when he's doing wrong, maybe he's not aware of it (some stuff he did to eddie), he's being influenced (by evil symbiote) or he's acting in desperation for a greater goal (kingpin offer theoretically). His whole persona is getting to grips with the motto his uncle gave him and how to bring it into practice effectively for everyone.

I'm not one that says that the Tombstone deal, is evil. I think that it's just irresponsible, compared to what Peter usually does in SSM. I know he was doing it for his aunt, but being passive towards crime is still not a responsible thing to do. What people seem to think is that the symbiote makes it's host evil, but it doesn't. It just alters the host's
personality/emotions and twists their morals, a little.

 

[varsas]

^^
Tbh I don't really think it's evil and go more with irresponsible as Silver Spider has put it. With Peter there's also the consideration that ignoring a petty crime lead to the death of Uncle Ben. Of course as with any real person he will struggle with this dilemma when in dire straits but I think that he's more likely to hold true to the ideal when younger and so soon after his loss.

Just watched a high quality version of the finale; I can't wait for the DVD sets!

 

[Anwar]

Exactly, Brock said in the comics that the symbiote can't make you do something that you REALLY don't want to do. All it does is amplify the negative emotions already in you and amp up your aggression. The darkness doesn't come from nowhere.

 

[Silver Spider]

Exactly, Brock said in the comics that the symbiote can't make you do something that you REALLY don't want to do. All it does is amplify the negative emotions already in you and amp up your aggression. The darkness doesn't come from nowhere.

Well said.

 

[November Rain]

I'm happy go to with somewhat irresponsible, more along the lines of naiive desperation.

But it's not evil per say or something I couldn't imagine a non symbiote spidey considering at one point or another.

 

[Ratcrawler]

I just noticed how the episode ended with symbiote goo instead of a sPider-Man fade.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I just noticed how the episode ended with symbiote goo instead of a sPider-Man fade.

Yeah, that was cool.

 

[Anwar]

That's how "Group Therapy" ended too.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

That's how "Group Therapy" ended too.

Indeed, and I liked how after Persona, we didn't see the classic Spidey fae in the background anymore. It showed how much Peter was taken over by the Symbiote.

 

[Webhead2006]

Yea that was a nice touch on those episodes.

 

[Lord Blackbolt]

They handled the Venom story better in this series than in the movie. After seeing the ending of this...this is how Spidey 3 should have ended. With Spidey confronting the Black Spidey in his mind...and have a Venom cameo at the end to tease for the next movie

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I re-watched Intervention recently and it truly is VERY intense as it was all the other times I watched it.

 

[Anwar]

They handled the Venom story better in this series than in the movie. After seeing the ending of this...this is how Spidey 3 should have ended. With Spidey confronting the Black Spidey in his mind...and have a Venom cameo at the end to tease for the next movie

Wouldn't work for a live-action movie.

Plus, all the actors' contracts were only for 3 movies and no more. They had to do the entire Venom story in one movie where they already had two major plotlines.

The entire symbiote arc, Brock and Gwen should've been left out of this. Then the next trilogy could be given to a guy who liked Venom and could use two of his movies to do the story (introduce Brock and Gwen in one of them, then do the symbiote and Venom stories in another).

Of course, it was a bigger problem to have MJ be his one and only from the start, and to not expand Peter's life beyond her, May and Harry. SM2 should've shown us that Peter had made a bunch of new friends as well like Deb Whitman, Randy Robertson, etc.

 

[Lord Blackbolt]

Well...from the beginning they should have orginally shot part 3 and 4 at the same time. They knew the movie was going to make money, why not just sign the actors and let them do it.

 

[Anwar]

Because they didn't know there'd be a fourth or that the actors would agree (since Maguire and Dunst both seemed fed up by that point). I mean, look at the X-Men movies. They made money but they still ended them by X3.

 

[Webhead2006]

Yea but sony/marvel stated around sm2/before sm3 came out they want to do 3 more movies to make the series be 6 films long.

 

[Anwar]

No, they only approved the 3 more movies after SM3's shooting had finished.

 

[red hood 4]

I think that Pete was being rather nasty to the Symbiote The poor thing only wanted somwhere to live. Even when it was combined with Brock it wasnt trying to kill spidey it

seemed to me it was just saying " see Peter you need me just as much as i need you just ask me and i will take you back" what does everyone else think.