"Intervention" Episode 12 Discussion Thread

[November Rain]

When did he consort "directly to do deals with the devil for his aunt"? I don't remember this happening in the series.

In the future I would agree that that it is not completely out of character to act this way when he's older and more cynical but right now I don't think it is in character at all.

He isn't a saint but originally iirc all he was going to do was take pictures from the skylight; I'm not sure if he was going to break into the lab. However that sort of stubbornness can be put down to being a teenager.

Oh i was referring to spidey during the comics. OMD spidey as well as easily influenced civil war spidey.

To be fair, spidey in the comics has shown moral fibre weakness towards his friends, He has let harry a terrorist go free without any sort of justice being done, not to mention siding with the black cat. I think they are showing him to already flimsy (even though we can argue it gets worse the older he gets). We know he believes with great power comes great responsibility but he does shake with where he believes his true responsibilities lie

He's just as flimsy with his logic towards friends and family now as he ever will be. This will probably become more apparent to see how he deals with venom

 

[November Rain]

All he wanted was to see the symbiote with his own eyes, nothing more.

Dude, he sold the pics....

That's completely irresponsible and he did the same thing with conners.

This spidey has acted like an ****** on some occasions.

 

[varsas]

Oh i was referring to spidey during the comics. OMD spidey as well as easily influenced civil war spidey.

To be fair, spidey in the comics has shown moral fibre weakness towards his friends, He has let harry a terrorist go free without any sort of justice being done, not to mention siding with the black cat. I think they are showing him to already flimsy (even though we can argue it gets worse the older he gets). We know he believes with great power comes great responsibility but he does shake with where he believes his true responsibilities lie

He's just as flimsy with his logic towards friends and family now as he ever will be. This will probably become more apparent to see how he deals with venom

You're right that he had a stronger moral stance that he would have handed his best friend in but he is a teenager and so his character still needs to develop although it has been given a huge boost in the right direction by Uncle Ben. He did side with BlackCat but I doubt he would have let her get away if he knew she stole something under his watch.

Dude, he sold the pics....

That's completely irresponsible and he did the same thing with conners.

This spidey has acted like an ****** on some occasions.

Yes, he's acted like a teenager.

 

[FNSpidey]

It is immoral and bad especially if you're meant to be a hero; if you're a cop and you're on the take it's not immoral or bad???

Imho Eddie never has a good reason to be Venom even in previous incarnations either since losing his job and his reputation is something he can get over. In this case, the symbiote survives but clearly Eddie is unstable and that is the reason the rage does not subside as it would in most people i.e. he does not think clearly especially when the symbiote is released and show Eddie all the bad aspects of Peter as Spider-Man.

Yes a convenient device at the end; he should have checked that the symbiote was really dead after being frozen solid.

It is immoral, I'm not arguing that. It's just not very bad or too unexpected from a very troubled man, especially a young one.

Eddie's reasons have always had some problems but there's a big difference between a) losing your job AND your reputation (thus being unable to get another job on the field) AND having a person to reasonably place the blame on and b) not really losing anything and going after someone because supposedly "you're unstable".

The first one could be written excellently and has been written reasonably well. The second, no matter how you cut it, is just a contrived reason to create a villain. Add to that Spidey very conveniently leaving the symbiote with Eddie and you have a really forced origin for a villain.

 

[Anwar]

Dude, he sold the pics....

That's completely irresponsible and he did the same thing with conners.

This spidey has acted like an ****** on some occasions.

Taking and selling pictures of superhuman crime is his job, and any other photographer would have done the same in his place. Why does it matter so much that it's the Connors' lab where it happened? Connors would have reported the theft and the media found out anyways.

As for Connors, everyone was unethical in that episode for not turning Connors in for his abuse of science.

 

[November Rain]

Taking and selling pictures of superhuman crime is his job, and any other photographer would have done the same in his place. Why does it matter so much that it's the Connors' lab where it happened? Connors would have reported the theft and the media found out anyways.

As for Connors, everyone was unethical in that episode for not turning Connors in for his abuse of science.

Parker was specifically asked by eddie not to approach the place, no one was authorised to be in that viscinity. Parker cashed in on the situation even though he was fully aware of what that might affect eddie. A friend had forgiven him for doing something similar to that earlier and he went back and repeated teh same thing over.

Well fair enough, they are all in the wrong for conners but that furthers provides evidence that parker's moral fibre isn't completely intact or at least has a way of being swayed given the right situation.

I mean ultimately if spidey was really clean cut, would he take pictures of himself taking out crime? I still feel that's not particularly responsible but it's part of who he's always been so meh. I was kinda happy when he no longer did so in the comics.

 

[Anwar]

I don't see how taking pictures of the symbiote through the skylight would've been bad just because Eddie told Peter he couldn't let him into the lab. He never said "don't come and take pictures" just that Martha wasn't going to let anyone INTO the lab.

And Eddie can't have been so naive to think that no major media would try to get pictures or information on the symbiote.

 

[Anwar]

One thing that took me a second viewing to recognize and appreciate was how powerless the symbiote was once Peter had rejected it and realized in fed off of negative emotion. It was literally nothing more than goop in a bucket. It showed that for all the power it seemed to give, it was only as strong as Peter allowed it to be. That his "demon" wasn't invincible.

 

[UltimateJustin]

Spiderman is an idiot for not working with Tombstone. Whats his problem? That guys cool. He could focus on stopping disasters, stopping supervillians, rescuing people in trouble and save more peoples lives doing that. He is never going to stop all crime in New York, he can't cover that proximity. But he just has to stop robberies and drug dealers and basic "criminals" who we all know by now are basically just people with sick daughters or are unlucky, even though doing all that is going to be essentially futile. Who cares if money is displaced or a jewel is taken, he shouldn't be worried about that as much.

 

[November Rain]

The fear of getting caught by spidey was stopping the petty thug from actually going about their daily business.

He was literally scaring crime off the streets.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Spiderman is an idiot for not working with Tombstone. Whats his problem? That guys cool. He could focus on stopping disasters, stopping supervillians, rescuing people in trouble and save more peoples lives doing that. He is never going to stop all crime in New York, he can't cover that proximity. But he just has to stop robberies and drug dealers and basic "criminals" who we all know by now are basically just people with sick daughters or are unlucky, even though doing all that is going to be essentially futile. Who cares if money is displaced or a jewel is taken, he shouldn't be worried about that as much.

Because more than likely, the money Tombstone would be paying him with came from the fear and blood of someone, somewhere who is innocent.

 

[Anwar]

And not stopping a normal criminal is what got Ben killed. Peter doesn't want anyone else to lose someone they loved or suffer because he didn't do anything.

 

[varsas]

Spiderman is an idiot for not working with Tombstone. Whats his problem? That guys cool.

...the problem is that Spider-Man is a good guy, a hero and it would be completely wrong to turn a blind eye to crime no matter how minor.

I don't see how taking pictures of the symbiote through the skylight would've been bad just because Eddie told Peter he couldn't let him into the lab. He never said "don't come and take pictures" just that Martha wasn't going to let anyone INTO the lab.

And Eddie can't have been so naive to think that no major media would try to get pictures or information on the symbiote.

In theory Peter has every right to go and take the pictures because that is his job but the crucial difference between him and other photographers is that he has a connection to the people involved. As it is he has come across as being incredibly selfish as far as the Connors, Eddie and Gwen are concerned and further incidents only help to reinforce this perception.

For example, if you're best friends with a celebrity and they do something foolish that paparazzi could take pictures of and you are also a newspaper photographer would you take advantage or pass up that chance?

 

[UltimateJustin]

Because more than likely, the money Tombstone would be paying him with came from the fear and blood of someone, somewhere who is innocent.

He shouldn't be on his payroll, they should just strike a deal that Spiderman lets criminals steal/sell drugs and Tombstone tries to get his guys to lay off of murdering fools and stop creating supervillians. Then Spiderman won't have to worry about Tombstone/supervillains sidetracking him and causing insane destruction and he can rescue people like those people who had to battle a real dragon on an island recently when they were swept away by waves. He could also attack other, out of control gangs and criminals but work with Tombstone to tighten up his operation so things go smoother aka no causalties.

He would then be free to do other things like fundraisers and raise money for the victims of Hurricaine Katrina. Man, thats what I'd do if I were Spiderman. I mean Spiderman is an all right guy but he is basically just doing this because of guilt he can't live down, he's really no hero, not like the Daredevil, who could beat Spiderman's ass.

 

[kane9321]

this episode was just........badass

 

[UltimateJustin]

this episode was just........badass

I like how it became an artistic B&W foray into Pete's mental state in dealing with the suit. It was exactly like this one episode of As Told By Ginger where she writes a depressing story.

 

[Sarcastic Fan]

I cannot believe some of what I'm reading in this thread.

"Leaving crime alone for a week isn't evil."

WAKE UP! Leaving crime alone for a second got his Uncle Ben murdered. Murdered. Spidey isn't just saving people's money and property, he's saving lives.

You don't need to be a supervillain to do damage. All you need is a gun, a knife, hell, even your hands.

Don't fight crime for a week. That's pretty much spitting on Uncle Ben's grave.

Hey, what if the cops in your home cities decided not to fight crime for a week.

Seriously, people. Think.

 

[Anwar]

It's just that one guy UltimateJustin saying that, and he doesn't seem to be much of a Spidey fan anyways.

 

[Sarcastic Fan]

It's just that one guy UltimateJustin saying that, and he doesn't seem to be much of a Spidey fan anyways.

November Rain also said "not fighting crime for a week isn't evil".

 

[amazingfantasy15]

I really liked the second half of the episode of Spidey/Pete trying to reject the symbiote. Really clever way of doing it, plus the way it showing Eddie who Pete was to convince him to bond was great. I'm not so sure how I felt about the first half though, Pete went a-hole a little too quick, would've liked an additional episode in between just so Pete became an a-hole just a little slower. Would've also liked a little more of Eddie, his development seemed a bit too hasty too. Overall the symbiote and origin of Venom was done well, mixing elements of the original comics, cartoon, movie and ultimate into one, just felt an extra episode of development would've made an already good to great arc truly spectacular.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

I cannot believe some of what I'm reading in this thread.

"Leaving crime alone for a week isn't evil."

WAKE UP! Leaving crime alone for a second got his Uncle Ben murdered. Murdered. Spidey isn't just saving people's money and property, he's saving lives.

You don't need to be a supervillain to do damage. All you need is a gun, a knife, hell, even your hands.

Don't fight crime for a week. That's pretty much spitting on Uncle Ben's grave.

Hey, what if the cops in your home cities decided not to fight crime for a week.

Seriously, people. Think.

Funny that someone named Sarcastic Fan can't pick up on the sarcasm in UltimateJustin's posts.

 

[Anwar]

Let's be honest, most of the stuff Peter did (aside from the Tombstone thing) isn't too much removed from what he'd have done without the suit. He's supposed to give a ***** about Brock and his complaints while May's had a heart attack? He's supposed to feel all good that the girls "want to be his friends" when all they're really doing is giving him empty words?

We can talk about how "good and dark" he was here, but he was still darker in TAS and SM3 where he actually did truly bad things like "kill" Sandman, come within an inch of killing Harry, nearly killing Rhino and Shocker, etc.

 

[Sarcastic Fan]

Funny that someone named Sarcastic Fan can't pick up on the sarcasm in UltimateJustin's posts.

I had not even read his posts when I wrote that. It was a reply to November Rain.

 

[Sarcastic Fan]

Let's be honest, most of the stuff Peter did (aside from the Tombstone thing) isn't too much removed from what he'd have done without the suit. He's supposed to give a ***** about Brock and his complaints while May's had a heart attack? He's supposed to feel all good that the girls "want to be his friends" when all they're really doing is giving him empty words.

Empty words? No, I think the sympathy they were offering was real. They were trying to be his friends. Sincerely. It may have not paid the bills, but damn it's still something.

Without the symbiote, he would not have flipped out like that on them.

Hmm, did anyone else miss the part where he nearly impaled Doc Ock on his own tentacle? Granted that was the symbiote, but then in those other incarnations, it was also the symbiote.

 

[Silver Spider]

Funny that someone named Sarcastic Fan can't pick up on the sarcasm in UltimateJustin's posts.

I'm not so sure about that, I mean sometimes UltimateJustin is like that.

Let's be honest, most of the stuff Peter did (aside from the Tombstone thing) isn't too much removed from what he'd have done without the suit. He's supposed to give a ***** about Brock and his complaints while May's had a heart attack? He's supposed to feel all good that the girls "want to be his friends" when all they're really doing is giving him empty words?

We can talk about how "good and dark" he was here, but he was still darker in TAS and SM3 where he actually did truly bad things like "kill" Sandman, come within an inch of killing Harry, nearly killing Rhino and Shocker, etc.

I will agree that Peter never did anything insanely bad; but what is so hard for you guys to understand, that compassion is not just a bunch of empty words?