Iron Fist Iron Fist General Discussion Thread - Part 3

[Dark Raven]

If his fighting looks really bad, he shouldn't be telling anyone anything about martial arts regardless of what color skin he is.

 

[SuperT]

If his fighting looks really bad, he shouldn't be telling anyone anything about martial arts regardless of what color skin he is.

 

[Darepool]

Tbh Finn's line delivery has had me worried since the first trailer. I've seen the word "awkward" thrown around (although I'm not sure if that was strictly on his performance)... I have to agree.

It was very awkward, and the trailers were pretty bad in general as well.

 

[Pokkle]

Josh Wilding review on the site that shall not be named is positive.

 

[BatsDC]

He gives everything a positive review.

 

[Dr. Evil]

So it's even worse than Agents of SHIELD season one before the events of Winter Soldier?

 

[Dasher10]

Knowing who the showrunner is now, this question comes to mind: The **** were Loeb and co thinking in hiring him?

That Iron Fist was good enough that they're having this guy also be in charge of Inhumans. I think that Marvel Studios has finally found their Chuck Austen. Considering that he's managed to ruin the street-level heroes of the MCU and is now dead-set on tearing down the cosmic side, I worry that he could derail the entirety of Marvel Studios.

From the sounds of reviews, here's what needs to change with Season 2 (assuming there is one)

1. Make Danny more culturally American. He's been in New York for a while now. Stop with the random Buddhist koans. Make him more of the likable (although occasionally dopey) protagonist from the comics.

2. Give him a costume. The fight scenes are said to be horrible. A costume allows for a stunt double who can actually fight which means less choppy fight scenes. The costume is also comic accurate and helps the series feel less bland.

3. Do a Shang Chi series. Readers only accepted Iron Fist as a white guy because Master of Kung Fu debuted a year earlier with an Asian protagonist. Shang Chi is set in Hong Kong and Iron Fist so they'll likely never interact but it takes the heat off of Iron Fist.

4. Fire the screenwriters. The problem with the show is allegedly the script. This is a show that's supposed to be about people punching each other in the face. Giving us too many boardroom meetings is lame. A lack of a main antagonist throughout the season is lame. There are complaints about stilted dialog and unnatural character interactions. That's entirely the fault of the writers. Considering that there are pacing issues as well, I'd also ask Marvel to consider firing Scott Buck if Inhumans is equally as horrible.

5. Give us a bad guy we care about. Zhou Cheng and Harold Machum are already completely wasted... Which is a shame since Zhou Cheng is awesome in the comics. Steel Serpent needs to be part of the show at some point. And Steel Serpent actually addresses why people are bothered by a white Iron Fist so the audience will actually sympathize with him. Also show a previous white Iron Fist named Orson Randall who is still alive and make him a supporting cast member and show how Steel Serpent is mostly driven by his desire to stop seeing foreigners take up the mantle of Iron Fist, which is completely justifiable.

6. Redeem the character in Luke Cage Season 2 before beginning production on Season 2 of Iron Fist. Defenders is being handled by the Daredevil team. Danny needs to show up in Season 2 of Luke Cage as his sidekick for a few episodes to redeem the character and prove that he can work. Thor 2 wasn't very good but thankfully he still appeared in Age of Ultron before Thor 3 hits later this year. Don't cancel the series. Instead correct course.

7. Watch Scott Buck like a hawk during Inhumans production. Get the studio involved in supervising him to ensure that he doesn't run tow franchises into the ground. Right now, Marvel's Phase 3 is at risk of being derailed if there's a single other flop. Sure, Hulk didn't find much of an audience and actually lost money in Phase 1. And yes, TTDW and the first half of Agents of SHIELD's first season in Phase 2 were both not things that I have any interest in rewatching. But Iron Fist looks to be Marvel Studios' first complete failure since Howard the Duck. Like, if people wind up not bothering with Defenders and Punisher because Iron Fist was bad

8. Change the tone. Now that Iron Fist has been established, stop trying to make him gritty since it really just makes him boring. It's ultimately for the same reason why Josh Trank's Fantastic Four failed. Lighten the tone and embrace that it's a series inspired by old Shaw Bros Kung Fu films. The positive reviews state that Iron Fist is at its best when it's trying to not take itself too seriously and during fight scenes. That's what the show needs. It needs to be more of an action series that focuses on fight scenes than it should on character drama.

That's just what I'd do.

 

[StormC]

Scott Buck is showrunner? Good lord. As a previously big Dexter fan... Marvel really couldn't find anyone better?

 

[Pokkle]

They liked the 6 first episode in this french review:
http://www.comicbox.com/index.php/articles/marvels-iron-fist-episodes-1-a-6/

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Well when you have a scene in the show that has Danny, a white male, telling Colleen how to run her own dojo correctly I can see why people may have a problem with it and that's just one scene. Lord know what else they have in the back half...

You do know that white people, black people, Hispanic people, South American people, and really any other race or culture of people run dojos right? Or do you not know how martial arts work?

 

[Spider-Fan]

That Iron Fist was good enough that they're having this guy also be in charge of Inhumans. I think that Marvel Studios has finally found their Chuck Austen. Considering that he's managed to ruin the street-level heroes of the MCU and is now dead-set on tearing down the cosmic side, I worry that he could derail the entirety of Marvel Studios.

From the sounds of reviews, here's what needs to change with Season 2 (assuming there is one)

1. Make Danny more culturally American. He's been in New York for a while now. Stop with the random Buddhist koans. Make him more of the likable (although occasionally dopey) protagonist from the comics.

2. Give him a costume. The fight scenes are said to be horrible. A costume allows for a stunt double who can actually fight which means less choppy fight scenes. The costume is also comic accurate and helps the series feel less bland.

3. Do a Shang Chi series. Readers only accepted Iron Fist as a white guy because Master of Kung Fu debuted a year earlier with an Asian protagonist. Shang Chi is set in Hong Kong and Iron Fist so they'll likely never interact but it takes the heat off of Iron Fist.

4. Fire the screenwriters. The problem with the show is allegedly the script. This is a show that's supposed to be about people punching each other in the face. Giving us too many boardroom meetings is lame. A lack of a main antagonist throughout the season is lame. There are complaints about stilted dialog and unnatural character interactions. That's entirely the fault of the writers. Considering that there are pacing issues as well, I'd also ask Marvel to consider firing Scott Buck if Inhumans is equally as horrible.

5. Give us a bad guy we care about. Zhou Cheng and Harold Machum are already completely wasted... Which is a shame since Zhou Cheng is awesome in the comics. Steel Serpent needs to be part of the show at some point. And Steel Serpent actually addresses why people are bothered by a white Iron Fist so the audience will actually sympathize with him. Also show a previous white Iron Fist named Orson Randall who is still alive and make him a supporting cast member and show how Steel Serpent is mostly driven by his desire to stop seeing foreigners take up the mantle of Iron Fist, which is completely justifiable.

6. Redeem the character in Luke Cage Season 2 before beginning production on Season 2 of Iron Fist. Defenders is being handled by the Daredevil team. Danny needs to show up in Season 2 of Luke Cage as his sidekick for a few episodes to redeem the character and prove that he can work. Thor 2 wasn't very good but thankfully he still appeared in Age of Ultron before Thor 3 hits later this year. Don't cancel the series. Instead correct course.

7. Watch Scott Buck like a hawk during Inhumans production. Get the studio involved in supervising him to ensure that he doesn't run tow franchises into the ground. Right now, Marvel's Phase 3 is at risk of being derailed if there's a single other flop. Sure, Hulk didn't find much of an audience and actually lost money in Phase 1. And yes, TTDW and the first half of Agents of SHIELD's first season in Phase 2 were both not things that I have any interest in rewatching. But Iron Fist looks to be Marvel Studios' first complete failure since Howard the Duck. Like, if people wind up not bothering with Defenders and Punisher because Iron Fist was bad

8. Change the tone. Now that Iron Fist has been established, stop trying to make him gritty since it really just makes him boring. It's ultimately for the same reason why Josh Trank's Fantastic Four failed. Lighten the tone and embrace that it's a series inspired by old Shaw Bros Kung Fu films. The positive reviews state that Iron Fist is at its best when it's trying to not take itself too seriously and during fight scenes. That's what the show needs. It needs to be more of an action series that focuses on fight scenes than it should on character drama.

That's just what I'd do.

Really? Iron Fist and Inhumans could derail the whole massively profitible MCU and the other Netflix widely successful shows? This is totally absurd. Yeah, Iron Fist not being a critical success may sting a little, but 3/4 shows are well regarded, all getting 2nd seasons, and I am sure Netflix is more than happy with their current Marvel in take. Inhumans failing would be worse given the IMAX connection and higher budget, but that doesn't mean no MCU either. The films make billions and there are still tons of shows in very active development. The MCU will be fine. This is a gross overreaction, and the show isn't even out yet.

 

[Darepool]

That Iron Fist was good enough that they're having this guy also be in charge of Inhumans. I think that Marvel Studios has finally found their Chuck Austen. Considering that he's managed to ruin the street-level heroes of the MCU and is now dead-set on tearing down the cosmic side, I worry that he could derail the entirety of Marvel Studios.

From the sounds of reviews, here's what needs to change with Season 2 (assuming there is one)

1. Make Danny more culturally American. He's been in New York for a while now. Stop with the random Buddhist koans. Make him more of the likable (although occasionally dopey) protagonist from the comics.

2. Give him a costume. The fight scenes are said to be horrible. A costume allows for a stunt double who can actually fight which means less choppy fight scenes. The costume is also comic accurate and helps the series feel less bland.

3. Do a Shang Chi series. Readers only accepted Iron Fist as a white guy because Master of Kung Fu debuted a year earlier with an Asian protagonist. Shang Chi is set in Hong Kong and Iron Fist so they'll likely never interact but it takes the heat off of Iron Fist.

4. Fire the screenwriters. The problem with the show is allegedly the script. This is a show that's supposed to be about people punching each other in the face. Giving us too many boardroom meetings is lame. A lack of a main antagonist throughout the season is lame. There are complaints about stilted dialog and unnatural character interactions. That's entirely the fault of the writers. Considering that there are pacing issues as well, I'd also ask Marvel to consider firing Scott Buck if Inhumans is equally as horrible.

5. Give us a bad guy we care about. Zhou Cheng and Harold Machum are already completely wasted... Which is a shame since Zhou Cheng is awesome in the comics. Steel Serpent needs to be part of the show at some point. And Steel Serpent actually addresses why people are bothered by a white Iron Fist so the audience will actually sympathize with him. Also show a previous white Iron Fist named Orson Randall who is still alive and make him a supporting cast member and show how Steel Serpent is mostly driven by his desire to stop seeing foreigners take up the mantle of Iron Fist, which is completely justifiable.

6. Redeem the character in Luke Cage Season 2 before beginning production on Season 2 of Iron Fist. Defenders is being handled by the Daredevil team. Danny needs to show up in Season 2 of Luke Cage as his sidekick for a few episodes to redeem the character and prove that he can work. Thor 2 wasn't very good but thankfully he still appeared in Age of Ultron before Thor 3 hits later this year. Don't cancel the series. Instead correct course.

7. Watch Scott Buck like a hawk during Inhumans production. Get the studio involved in supervising him to ensure that he doesn't run tow franchises into the ground. Right now, Marvel's Phase 3 is at risk of being derailed if there's a single other flop. Sure, Hulk didn't find much of an audience and actually lost money in Phase 1. And yes, TTDW and the first half of Agents of SHIELD's first season in Phase 2 were both not things that I have any interest in rewatching. But Iron Fist looks to be Marvel Studios' first complete failure since Howard the Duck. Like, if people wind up not bothering with Defenders and Punisher because Iron Fist was bad

8. Change the tone. Now that Iron Fist has been established, stop trying to make him gritty since it really just makes him boring. It's ultimately for the same reason why Josh Trank's Fantastic Four failed. Lighten the tone and embrace that it's a series inspired by old Shaw Bros Kung Fu films. The positive reviews state that Iron Fist is at its best when it's trying to not take itself too seriously and during fight scenes. That's what the show needs. It needs to be more of an action series that focuses on fight scenes than it should on character drama.

That's just what I'd do.

Marvel TV is not Marvel Studios. Other coast.

 

[BatsDC]

Scott Buck is showrunner? Good lord. As a previously big Dexter fan... Marvel really couldn't find anyone better?

Apparently not. They wanted a very grounded show that would suppress the more fantastical elements enough to fit the Netflix mould; it looks like Buck gave the only pitch that did that to the extent Marvel was happy with.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Kevin Feige has no involvement whatsoever in the TV shows, so it's not going to affect his movies.

 

[Web-Head]

Really? Iron Fist and Inhumans could derail the whole massively profitible MCU and the other Netflix widely successful shows? This is totally absurd. Yeah, Iron Fist not being a critical success may sting a little, but 3/4 shows are well regarded, all getting 2nd seasons, and I am sure Netflix is more than happy with their current Marvel in take. Inhumans failing would be worse given the IMAX connection and higher budget, but that doesn't mean no MCU either. The films make billions and there are still tons of shows in very active development. The MCU will be fine. This is a gross overreaction, and the show isn't even out yet.

Exactly

 

[DarthSkywalker]

We have a guy with unbreakable skin who takes acid baths, a blind man who fights undead ninjas, a super strong woman whose greatest enemy is a guy who makes people do what he wants with pheromones. I am going to have to ask what needed to be grounded exactly?

 

[TheVileOne]

Knowing who the showrunner is now, this question comes to mind: The **** were Loeb and co thinking in hiring him?

My guess is that Scott Buck was affordable and available.

 

[Spider-Fan]

We have a guy with unbreakable skin who takes acid baths, a blind man who fights undead ninjas, a super strong woman whose greatest enemy is a guy who makes people do what he wants with pheromones. I am going to have to ask what needed to be grounded exactly?

To be fair, man fighting ninjas isn't as out there as guy fighting mystical dragon, LOL! But fundamentally, I agree with this.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

My guess is that Scott Buck was affordable and available.

There is an obvious reason for those two things.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

To be fair, man fighting ninjas isn't as out there as guy fighting mystical dragon, LOL! But fundamentally, I agree with this.

I agree if it was only the first season of Daredevil. Madame Gao was the only really "mystical" bit. But the second season turned it up. We people coming back from the dead, weird mystical bloody transfusions and something called Black Sky.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Because he sucks. Yes, I just stated the obvious.

 

[TheVileOne]

Apparently not. They wanted a very grounded show that would suppress the more fantastical elements enough to fit the Netflix mould; it looks like Buck gave the only pitch that did that to the extent Marvel was happy with.

I don't think we can lay all the blame at the feet of Scott Buck. Some of it has to go to Marvel TV, ABC, and Netflix. Marvel probably did want something like you described.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Because he sucks. Yes, I just stated the obvious.

Someone had to.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don't think we can lay all the blame at the feet of Scott Buck. Some of it has to go to Marvel TV, ABC, and Netflix. Marvel probably did want something like you described.

They hired him. Of course it is their fault.

 

[BatsDC]

I don't think we can lay all the blame at the feet of Scott Buck. Some of it has to go to Marvel TV, ABC, and Netflix. Marvel probably did want something like you described.

I'd argue Marvel deserve more of the blame, because what Buck has apparently delivered is exactly what they wanted - a watered down, super-grounded and dull adaptation of the Iron Fist mythos that ignores anything remotely fantastical in favour of grounded realism. They knew exactly what they were getting, which is in turn exactly what they wanted.

Buck deserves the blame for the execution, but not the concept.