Iron Fist Iron Fist General Discussion Thread - Part 4

[chamber-music]

A new showrunner has already been announced. Buck is running the Inhumans now.

 

[Dark Raven]

A new showrunner has already been announced. Buck is ruining the Inhumans now.

Fixed.

 

[Limonade]

Finn having more time to learn the fight choreography, iron fist getting a costume and better writing will certainly help improve the next season of iron fist.

Yup.

Or at least, I just want him to don the mask, people. That way you can probably get actual stand-ins for good martial artists from around the world. And shoot the fight scenes better. Too many cuts make it all look fake to me.

My hope is that the action leans more towards Into the Badlands. Spend all the good $$$ on the fight scenes and less on overly complex storylines. Get his core appeal back.

 

[Nathan]

Really don't understand why he hasn't been given a mask from the start. Even if he doesn't view himself as a superhero, so he doesn't have a costume, at the very least the Monks of K'un-Lun should have given him the mask. Just something ceremonial, passed down to each new Iron Fist.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Really don't understand why he hasn't been given a mask from the start. Even if he doesn't view himself as a superhero, so he doesn't have a costume, at the very least the Monks of K'un-Lun should have given him the mask. Just something ceremonial, passed down to each new Iron Fist.

Because Scott Buck hates costumes.

 

[Nathan]

Even if he hates costumes, it's really completely moronic to pass on the perfect opportunity to hide your main actor, who's horrible at martial arts. Really glad he's not returning for Season 2.

 

[coluanprime]

Watching the Magicians, which is produced on a tiny Syfy budget, IF's general lack of vfx becomes even more disappointing. If a Syfy channel can afford a decent dragon, why can't Netflix?

 

[Verick808]

Doesn't really seem like any of the marvel shows on Netflix have very high budgets to be honest. I'm just happy it was really a dragon and not some guy everyone called a dragon.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Yeah, Iron Fist played it straight, which I appreciated (although Zhou Cheng was absolutely not played straight and that bothered me, even if his scenes were a highlight).

The Netflix shows don't seem to want CG constructions. Whether that's a product of world building or a desire for a certain look of the show, I don't know, but they've been consistent in spite of Iron Fist needing it a little more than the rest.

 

[Random490]

Watching the Magicians, which is produced on a tiny Syfy budget, IF's general lack of vfx becomes even more disappointing. If a Syfy channel can afford a decent dragon, why can't Netflix?

I haven't seen The Magicians, but I'm guessing the dragons are they just in a dark corner or do the live action actors interact with it in an action sequence? A shot like that could easily be a shark jumping moment if not done right. In a show like The Magicians you have a lot more leeway with fantastical elements because it's consistent with the rest of the show. The netflix shows are focused on fighting crime in New York, tonally it would feel out of place if it was anything more than a quick shot in shadows. I think the fight with the dragon should be vague, give the audience a sense that only other Iron Fist could truly relate to, give it that air of mystery.

Someone on here once suggested that the opening credits sequence should have depicted the fight with the dragon and that would have been prefect and much better than just some guy in sweat pants and a sweat shirt doing kung fu

Doesn't really seem like any of the marvel shows on Netflix have very high budgets to be honest. I'm just happy it was really a dragon and not some guy everyone called a dragon.

Filming in NYC is incredibly expensive and they take full advantage of it, not like a lot of shows where they film in LA and use green screens or fly out for two weeks of quick shots. The city is a character itself and well worth the sacrifice. It's easy to assume about budgets but I guarantee that if you sat down with a tv producer and go through line by line what you need to spend money on for a show you'll wonder how anything can get made. Also keep in mind tons of shows have gone big on effects and scope, have good ratings, but get canceled because they ratings weren't spectacular enough to justify the budget. Bigger budget, bigger effects, bigger scope doesn't always equal success.

Personally if they get an increase budget I want them to spend it on giving production more time to choreograph, rehearse, and film action scenes, make Kun Lun sets and wardrobe, and have more of the iron fist (love that effect, much better that what I was expecting them to do) than see a dragon.

 

[TheVileOne]

http://www.ign.com/videos/2017/04/03/the-magicians-dealing-with-a-dragon-isnt-easy

Here's footage of the dragon in The Magicians. It's kept obscured most of the scene. But you do see it's face and head.

 

[OB12]

Yeah, Iron Fist played it straight, which I appreciated (although Zhou Cheng was absolutely not played straight and that bothered me, even if his scenes were a highlight).

The Netflix shows don't seem to want CG constructions. Whether that's a product of world building or a desire for a certain look of the show, I don't know, but they've been consistent in spite of Iron Fist needing it a little more than the rest.

One factor that may lead to more CG in s2 is the showrunner. With Metzger's work on Falling Skies, they really embraced the fantastical and the aliens were actually quite well done. Of course, I have not idea how the budgets compare for the two shows.

 

[Mike Murdock]

While budget is undoubtedly a factor, I think Netflix is honestly a factor too. I think Marvel and Netflix discussed a specific vision for these shows that feel like they're genuinely set in the New York you could walk around in. Iron Fist, however, needs to push back at that a little. I hope everyone sees that after the first season, but I don't think it's entirely a money issue.

Honestly, if I were showrunner for Iron Fist, I'd probably have constructed a K'un Lun set (it doesn't have to be overly expensive because they can be austere monks as portrayed in the show) and have made the first two episodes relative bottle episodes as Danny fights with everyone else for the privilege of being the Iron Fist (cutting back to flashbacks as his father and mother are explicitly killed at the hands of Harold Meechum and wolves respectively). The second episode would have a ten minute fight with a dragon (maybe some cat and mouse stuff where the dragon is obscured and you only get fire, but undeniably a dragon). Then he would go to New York for revenge against Harold and the rest of the story. The hope would be that filming in a studio for two episodes would save some money they could spend on a real live dragon.

 

[metaphysician]

*cough* I still think they missed an easy opportunity, by not making the credits scene a stylized portrayal of the dragon fight. It would let them have their cake and eat it too.

 

[Random490]

http://www.ign.com/videos/2017/04/03/the-magicians-dealing-with-a-dragon-isnt-easy

Here's footage of the dragon in The Magicians. It's kept obscured most of the scene. But you do see it's face and head.

Oh they could have definitely done something like that on a reasonable budget, so their reason not to is a creative one. Also have to remember that these decisions has to be made early in development and can something like that can easily pull people out of the story which focuses is on vigilantes in NYC.

While budget is undoubtedly a factor, I think Netflix is honestly a factor too. I think Marvel and Netflix discussed a specific vision for these shows that feel like they're genuinely set in the New York you could walk around in. Iron Fist, however, needs to push back at that a little. I hope everyone sees that after the first season, but I don't think it's entirely a money issue.

Honestly, if I were showrunner for Iron Fist, I'd probably have constructed a K'un Lun set (it doesn't have to be overly expensive because they can be austere monks as portrayed in the show) and have made the first two episodes relative bottle episodes as Danny fights with everyone else for the privilege of being the Iron Fist (cutting back to flashbacks as his father and mother are explicitly killed at the hands of Harold Meechum and wolves respectively). The second episode would have a ten minute fight with a dragon (maybe some cat and mouse stuff where the dragon is obscured and you only get fire, but undeniably a dragon). Then he would go to New York for revenge against Harold and the rest of the story. The hope would be that filming in a studio for two episodes would save some money they could spend on a real live dragon.

Personally I would keep the battle with the dragon off screen and would keep flashbacks brief but meaningful, like the scene of Davos finding Danny after the trial. I enjoy how the series opening and would have flashbacks. Like a scene of him training as an adult, a scene where he's walking with a monk discussing the Iron Fist tournament and trial(set it in a Kun Lun market place allowing us to see the city as a living breathing place), A scene of him winning the tournament, and a scene of him entering Shou-Lao's cave with a quick shot of the dragon attacking from the shadows. I'd want these sprinkled throughout the season, so that when we finally see the dragon we're more willing to believe it given the rest of the series more grounded story.

I don't think you can really show the fight beyond mere glimpses of the battle. Given in The Defenders [BLACKOUT]the size of the dragon skeleton in the hole it would be really hard to convince us that Danny beat it with his bare hands[/BLACKOUT]. If it were a movie you'd have so much more time to plan, film, and add effects you can make that work. I think for this show's direction and budget the fight is better left to our imaginations, but you have to get our imaginations running. Showing the scenes I describe, particularly the Monk's description of the trial and Danny entering the cave. That would have gotten our minds thinking about it in a way that could have been far more effective that telling or showing it. If you don't build it up in our minds you lose the effectiveness of it. In film sometimes what you don't see has the best effect and I wish they realized that.

I'm hoping season 2 can show us scenes like this, I think using Davos' perspective would do nicely. Not only make it less awkward why we didn't see these scenes in season one, but can also help define his motivation.

*cough* I still think they missed an easy opportunity, by not making the credits scene a stylized portrayal of the dragon fight. It would let them have their cake and eat it too.

Couldn't agree more, would have been a perfect opening. I can clearly picture it in my head.

 

[TheVileOne]

Game of Thrones has sort of spoiled the well for a lot of shows in terms of what's achievable on making TV look more cinematic and on par with major blockbusters.

 

[KevTravels]

any expected budget increase for the second season?

 

[TheVileOne]

any expected budget increase for the second season?

There's no reason to really expect that.

 

[Mike Murdock]

The only hope is for the same budget, which would be more per episode.

 

[metaphysician]

I really doubt they actually *need* more budget. The problems with Iron Fist were not "too little money", they were "incompetent leadership". Daredevil didn't have any more money, and both seasons were far better.

 

[TheVileOne]

My problem is no one really wanted to embrace the cool fantasy martial arts aspects.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I really doubt they actually *need* more budget. The problems with Iron Fist were not "too little money", they were "incompetent leadership". Daredevil didn't have any more money, and both seasons were far better.

Daredevil also didn't have a dragon.

 

[chamber-music]

After this season of Game of Thrones I think any show which features a dragon is going to be better t:

I don't like The Big Bang Theory but if they had a dragon swooped in and start burning people alive I think I might start watching that show

 

[TheVileOne]

Seriously, every show should have ****ing dragons in it. Iron Fist lore has an actual dragon, and we get zip!

 

[Darepool]

I really doubt they actually *need* more budget. The problems with Iron Fist were not "too little money", they were "incompetent leadership". Daredevil didn't have any more money, and both seasons were far better.

Not many people would have truly cared that much if the writing was great.

They are slipping a bit at Marvel TV. I hope Loeb gets some Bronx cheers at NYCC. Inhumans should be an embarrassment to his 'leadership' and as much as I enjoyed the Defenders it was was a BIG step down from DD and JJ.