Is America still America?

[Morgoth]

I have had enough of all the changes for strangers to our country.

How can they stop saying the Pledge in our schools.

It's a shame and an insult. Don't come over here saying we have to stop our traditions that have been going on for years!

Would they like it if we went to another country and said they couldn't do their things.

Let's start a comic strip with Mohamed, or however you spell it, I don't care, but NO, that would cause all sorts of crap.

So does America have a back bone any more.

Just like how in Britain they can't talk about the Holocaust 'cause it upsets Muslims! What the Hell is that?!!! They just have to forget a part of history to suit them, just 'cause it upsets them. WTF!

That is enough!!!!

We have to keep our traditions, or we become something else.

I went into Walmart the other day and they didn't have soundtracks anymore, but they had a whole wall for mexican music! And a whole section for mexican food.

I've asked before so, do you have Irish music or Polish music since you have that, and the answer is always, no.

So stupid. With all the ghetto crap, and spanish morons who don't even try to speak the language, and stopping our traditions, this country is going to hell.

My Uncles and Father didn't fight for this Country for nothing.

 

[GoldenAgeHero]

i share your sentiments to a lesser degree. the whole language thing s really bothering me. if your from another country coming here, learn to speak english, don't ask us to conform to your native tongue. but at the same time, i think we should be more culturally aware, and think that speaking different lnguages should be apart of school lessons earlier in school, leanring spanish in highschool is a flppin joke.

 

[04nbod]

Just like how in Britain they can't talk about the Holocaust 'cause it upsets Muslims! What the Hell is that?!!! They just have to forget a part of history to suit them, just 'cause it upsets them. WTF!

thats not true- the holocaust is taught in every school no matter what religion. Why would muslims get upset by it anyway, they weren't the ones being massacred

 

[black_dust]

Deal with it

 

[Mee]

"This is ourrrr count-reeEEE!"

 

[Erzengel]

Disregarding your Mexican soundtrack points, some of your other points you make goes with my theory about the *****fication of America. I think it was around the early to mid 90's where society started listen to the minority few who got upset as opposed to the majority who didn't.

Now we live in a society where we can't upset the person next to us, or else they are going to write a letter, or boycott or worse yet sue.

We live in a country where people have given up on giving out 1st place trophies in exchange for trophies for everyone because we can't kids feel bad if they lose. Then they might not grow up right and sue.

I am kinda sick of having to adjust my life just because a few people are offended what they see on tv, or on the radio. Too many people are seriously such a waste of oxygen that they need to complain about something just to complain.

Some things come to mind over the past few years.

Star Wars Attack of the Clones, criticism that clones were an attack of Mexican immigration and claiming that Fett even looked Hispanic, he was a New Zealander actually.

The 2 guys kissing during that Snickers commerical.

And the one that just took censorship to a whole new level was Janet Jackson's boob being exposed during the Super Bowl.

Who cares? Evidently 20 people who seem to be able to make broadcasters, advertisers, studios, networks, sh't themsevles in response. x 1,000,000

 

[Maxwell Smart]

You honestly sound prejudiced. Sorry, I can't say I share your sentiments. The only thing I'm worried about is how illegal immigration affects wages in this country.

Quite frankly, I like Mexican music and Latin Music in general. This is a free market and not a Communist country. If people will buy Mexican music you're wrong to fault businesses like Wal-Mart for selling it or having a section for it. I don't even know what you're talking about with the Pledge or with people in Britain supposedly not being able to discuss the Holocaust due to Muslims. That doesn't even make sense, dude. Did you mean to say its because of Jewish people? I can't figure out why Muslims would be getting offended about the Holocaust being discussed.

So you think we should insult and provoke other cultures as nation? (referring to your suggestion about Muhammed cartoon strips) I don't think thats wise. Its not about "not having a back bone" its about having a little common sense and maturity.

You say we keep our traditions or become something else? God what simplistic thinking. Slavery, women being treated like children, grown adults not having the right as far as society is concerned to have sex with who they want to- all those things were traditions at one time. However the Abolitionist movement, the Women's Suffrage and Women's rights movement and the Sexual revolution changed all the 'traditions' I mentioned. Things change and that isn't always a bad thing.

And btw saying "stupid ghetto crap" and especially calling people "spanish morons" is pretty much blatant racism. I'd say you're cruising for a ban with that kind of talk. Just calm down.

 

[Maxwell Smart]

some of your other points you make goes with my theory about the *****fication of America. I think it was around the early to mid 90's where society started listen to the minority few who got upset as opposed to the majority who didn't.

Well I do agree with you to a point on the whole '*****fication of America' thing(did you hear about how this one Little League in Cincinatti banned players from talking during games because it might hurt people's feelings? No more 'hey battah battah...'), I want to make a point here.

In a republic it is EXTREMELY important that the rights of the minority are protected against the majority. A republic is NOT about majority rule. Thats direct democracy. EVERYONE's rights are supposed to be respected in a Democratic Republic. Thats so that you avoid stuff like the majority who happen to be straight passing legislation that says the minority who is gay has less rights than they do/that they can't get married.

 

[04nbod]

Morgoth I don't think your problem is with america its with the entirity of western society and i think its wrong. Your country was called the 'melting pot' for a reason. I know the people from other countries have greatly enhanced my society whether that be the person at the local chinese takaway to the music i buy. It seems you can't deal with the concept of a world society but really isn't what makes your country its values more than what is on your supermarket shelves

 

[Maxwell Smart]

Morgoth I don't think your problem is with america its with the entirity of western society and i think its wrong. Your country was called the 'melting pot' for a reason.

Yeah but those people who came before were WHITE people and not uppity brown and yellow people.

Its a bit transparent that that was the type of thinking going on here. It might be only on a subconcious level but I'm sure its there after reading his post.

Btw Morgot, what if *I* as a white person want to eat Mexican food? Listen to Tejano/Norteño music? Apparently in Morgoth's world white people only eat 'white people' food and only listen to good ol' American music. Its not like consumers should have a choice, they should just buy within the stereotypes of their own ethnicity so we keep our traditions.

 

[Erzengel]

Well I do agree with you to a point on the whole '*****fication of America' thing(did you hear about how this one Little League in Cincinatti banned players from talking during games because it might hurt people's feelings? No more 'hey battah battah...'), I want to make a point here.

In a republic it is EXTREMELY important that the rights of the minority are protected against the majority. A republic is NOT about majority rule. Thats direct democracy. EVERYONE's rights are supposed to be respected in a Democratic Republic. Thats so that you avoid stuff like the majority who happen to be straight passing legislation that says the minority who is gay has less rights than they do/that they can't get married.

Well now we are talking about apples and oranges, it's one thing to protect everyones rights. But everything I said goes along the lines of the people being offended and getting something cancelled or banned even for just the sake of having something to b'tch about.

Your example of the little league is actually not surprising for me. Everybody wins, nobody loses and gets their feelings hurt. Bullsh't. There's no competitiveness anymore, and no strive for #1 that's making a lot of kids just settle for participating instead of actually trying.

 

[gkokujin]

america is no longer the "so-called" moral cornerstone of the world.

it has let outsiders and those with selfish ambitions instead of for the greater good shape her image.

9/11 wouldn't have happened years ago (not just cause it didnt) but because People ACTUALLY looked to america for stuff.

thank the Bushes.

 

[Duende Verde]

i share your sentiments to a lesser degree. the whole language thing s really bothering me. if your from another country coming here, learn to speak english, don't ask us to conform to your native tongue. but at the same time, i think we should be more culturally aware, and think that speaking different lnguages should be apart of school lessons earlier in school, leanring spanish in highschool is a flppin joke.

How ironic.

 

[Immortalfire]

White people food..lol.

 

[Maxwell Smart]

How ironic.

LOL isn't it?

I think Mexicans and other Latin American people have every right to speak Spanish. French has been spoken in Northern New England and Southern Louisiana for generations and generations and I never heard people ***** about that. Spanish has a long history in this country too. Many parts of the Southwest have ALWAYS had Spanish-speaking people. If you go to the Rio Grande river valley in South Texas you'll find that in those towns almost everyone speaks Spanish and you hear it on the street much more than English. Practically all the businesses' signs are in mainly Spanish. And its ALWAYS been that way down there.

You have a very Anglo-centric view of what America is, dude. Spanish people were living in many parts of our country long before Anglo settlers arrived. I guess I shouldn't blame you though. I should blame our education system because American history classes have always been almost criminally biased in favor of Anglos. The French and Spanish contributions to the forming of our great nation are ignored all too often.

I'm not arguing people shouldn't have to know English in America. Everyone should speak it ideally. We SHOULD keep a national language that everyone knows how to speak for the convenience of it in government and education- but we shouldn't take the attitude that we're an English-speaking country, period.

 

[moraldeficiency]

I was just having this conversation with some friends yesterday but we didn't start in a rant so we actually made a few points. They were:

If you don't like a type of music/movie/clothing don't buy it. This is capitalism people if it doesn't sell you won't see it. If it does sell than what right do you have to ***** about someone turning a profit just cause you don't like the style. I hate that american idol show. Watched one episode never since. It's still on cause other people like it but the point is I don't know about it or care about it anymore.

People not learning the language isn't that big a problem. The smart people will learn the language and succeed, those that don't invariably get shoved into jobs underneath people that do speak the language. My friend is a craftsman. He has two people under him with far better skill and experience but because they don't speak the language well he gets to be the boss. Don't whine about jobs being taken and the lack of education of the language in the same argument. Those that don't learn the language have almost no chance to do anything but follow orders.

America is nothing but a hodgepodge (yes I just used the word hodgepodge, I'm just cool enough to pull that off) of other cultures and traditions. That's our strength. We amass brilliance hand in hand with ignorance. You don't get to pick and choose between the two. Personally I think we need to have more back bone in this country, hell yes, but we go though highs and lows and you've just got to ride the wave out.

Nothing here will ever be perfect or even fair. It's never happened and never will. Someone always gets **** on. Way of the world. You do; however, have the one truly great thing about this country going for you: You get to say what you want and change your life for the better. But then you also have the ability to ***** and moan and not do anything but rant. Which do you want to choose?

 

[hippie_hunter]

thats not true- the holocaust is taught in every school no matter what religion. Why would muslims get upset by it anyway, they weren't the ones being massacred

Muslims get upset by the Holocaust because the Holocaust is the reason why Israel was created on what they see as their territory. A lot of Muslims deny the Holocaust even existed and beleive that it was a massive Jewish conspiracy. Take a look at the whack job that is Iran's president.

 

[Victarion]

I have had enough of all the changes for strangers to our country.

How can they stop saying the Pledge in our schools.

It's a shame and an insult. Don't come over here saying we have to stop our traditions that have been going on for years!

Would they like it if we went to another country and said they couldn't do their things.

Let's start a comic strip with Mohamed, or however you spell it, I don't care, but NO, that would cause all sorts of crap.

So does America have a back bone any more.

Just like how in Britain they can't talk about the Holocaust 'cause it upsets Muslims! What the Hell is that?!!! They just have to forget a part of history to suit them, just 'cause it upsets them. WTF!

That is enough!!!!

We have to keep our traditions, or we become something else.

I went into Walmart the other day and they didn't have soundtracks anymore, but they had a whole wall for mexican music! And a whole section for mexican food.

I've asked before so, do you have Irish music or Polish music since you have that, and the answer is always, no.

So stupid. With all the ghetto crap, and spanish morons who don't even try to speak the language, and stopping our traditions, this country is going to hell.

My Uncles and Father didn't fight for this Country for nothing.

Everything in bold, I agree with. A student should not have to learn a foreign language just because they can't learn ours. Let's take mexicans for example: They should be allowed to use their own native tongue amongst themselves (ie. church, socials, with friends and family)

However, in the "real world" (i.e. shopping, business, on the job) they should learn to use the American language in these instances. I say let the "ghetto dawgs" continue on with their ways, because we all need some amusement to get us through the day. t:

Just because a small percentage is offended by the pledge is no reason to ban or alter it. That goes against the democratic principles that our country is built on.

 

[X-Chick]

I have had enough of all the changes for strangers to our country.

Most of the changes aren't for strangers.

How can they stop saying the Pledge in our schools.
Because not everyone is Christian and its stupid to make them pledge to a god they don't believe in.

It's a shame and an insult. Don't come over here saying we have to stop our traditions that have been going on for years!

Would they like it if we went to another country and said they couldn't do their things.

Let's start a comic strip with Mohamed, or however you spell it, I don't care, but NO, that would cause all sorts of crap.
Who is coming over here doing this? The pledge thing is from Americans, not immigrants.

So does America have a back bone any more.
We're still the strongest country in the world. Even without the precious pledge of allegiance being forced on kids.

Just like how in Britain they can't talk about the Holocaust 'cause it upsets Muslims! What the Hell is that?!!! They just have to forget a part of history to suit them, just 'cause it upsets them. WTF!
That's ******ed but has nothing to do with the main point of your thread.

That is enough!!!!

We have to keep our traditions, or we become something else.

I went into Walmart the other day and they didn't have soundtracks anymore, but they had a whole wall for mexican music! And a whole section for mexican food.

I've asked before so, do you have Irish music or Polish music since you have that, and the answer is always, no.

So stupid. With all the ghetto crap, and spanish morons who don't even try to speak the language, and stopping our traditions, this country is going to hell.

My Uncles and Father didn't fight for this Country for nothing.
So, you're just mad because you couldn't find the soundtrack to Footloose or something equally stupid? Mexican music is popular now, and not just among Mexicans. Its great for dancing.

 

[Erzengel]

^
Don't you talk bad about Kenny Loggins!!!

 

[Maxwell Smart]

Everything in bold, I agree with. A student should not have to learn a foreign language just because they can't learn ours. Let's take mexicans for example: They should be allowed to use their own native tongue amongst themselves, like at socials, with friends, family, church, etc.

However, in the "real world", shopping, business, on the job, they should learn the American language. I say let the "ghetto dawgs" continue on with their ways, because we all need some amusement to get us through the day.

Just because a small percentage is offended by the pledge is no reason to ban or alter it. That goes against the democratic principles that our country is built on.

A student shouldn't have to learn a foreign language because they can't learn "our" language? First of all, what is "our" language anyhow? Read my post. French and Spanish both have a long history in this country.

People shouldn't HAVE to learn Spanish because a few people in the Hispanic community won't learn English..yeah, of course. But there is still nothing wrong with students learning foreign language. It should be a required part of the curriculum in our schools at an early age. NOT to appease people from foreign countries who refuse to learn English but because its better for our education system. Countless studies have indicated its beneficial to a child's learning to know a foreign language. In our increasingly globalized world we should encourage all Americans to learn a second language.

Again this isn't a communist country. The only way you can regulate commerce is in the interest of safety or if it has to be done to ensure the security of society a whole(like Social Security). You can't control what language private citizens conduct business in. And again, all this throwing around of different words with ghetto attached to them smacks of racism but I'll digress from that.

One final fallacy in your post I have to address: Our nation is a democratic REPUBLIC. We aren't a democracy where the majority can just be willy nilly and do what they want. The Pledge SHOULD be changed because, first of all, its an obvious violation of the seperation between church & state. Secondly it should be changed because not everyone in this country believes in God. You can't justify it with "well its not a specific God". In a country with a republican form of government that is supposed to represent both the majority AND the minority the pledge of allegiance shouldn't alienate part of our citizenry.

 

[blind_fury]

They took er jerbs!!!

 

[04nbod]

Muslims get upset by the Holocaust because the Holocaust is the reason why Israel was created on what they see as their territory. A lot of Muslims deny the Holocaust even existed and beleive that it was a massive Jewish conspiracy. Take a look at the whack job that is Iran's president.

i think we have to give muslims some benefit of the doubt here- its common sense and most of them have it.Iran's president is crazy and does not represent the majority of muslim thought.

Every child in britain is taught about the halocaust- we don't stop because they might be offended. They might not agree but they know about it. I don't think anyone here would begrudge israel after what the jewish community suffered not only by the nazi's but the anti- semitism in europe for hundreds of years.

 

[moraldeficiency]

They took er jerbs!!!

They took your jerb!!!

 

[Maxwell Smart]

They took er jerbs!!!

Actually that is one of the few if not the ONLY valid concern coming from Morgoth's side in the immigration debate. There should be no question about the negative impact illegal immigration has had on working class men & women in this country. Unfortunately people like to assume that these are all jobs no Americans want to do, like our numbskull President.

That just isn't true. There are still millions of working class Americans who do those kinds of jobs. Especially when it comes to certain industries like construction. My own dad is a house painter and has personally seen the devastation illegal labor has had on wages. Fortunately he is working for himself now so its not affecting him as badly as it was. When he first started painting in the late 70s, wages were not much lower then they are now. In the last 30 years wages (for the most part) in the construction business have been stagnant. The cost of living certainly has not, its gone up and up. Illegal labor and "free" trade agreements like NAFTA(among other things) are slaughtering the working middle class in this country. Instead of just being expected to compete with people in Detroit and Peoria, working men and women are expected to compete with workers in foreign countries like India which have lower standards when it comes to wages, safety, workers' rights etc. Due to these lower standards they can make things for less in those countries than they can here in America. Its not an even playing field for America's workers.

I just think people like Morgoth are worried about the wrong things. People need to worry less about taquerias on main street and worry a lot more about their ass pocket.