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Is America still America?

well....we know how this thread is gonna turn out...

Max, I admire your level headedness.
 
I have had enough of all the changes for strangers to our country.

How can they stop saying the Pledge in our schools.

It's a shame and an insult. Don't come over here saying we have to stop our traditions that have been going on for years!

Would they like it if we went to another country and said they couldn't do their things.

Let's start a comic strip with Mohamed, or however you spell it, I don't care, but NO, that would cause all sorts of crap.

So does America have a back bone any more.

Just like how in Britain they can't talk about the Holocaust 'cause it upsets Muslims! What the Hell is that?!!! They just have to forget a part of history to suit them, just 'cause it upsets them. WTF!

That is enough!!!!

We have to keep our traditions, or we become something else.

I went into Walmart the other day and they didn't have soundtracks anymore, but they had a whole wall for mexican music!:cmad: And a whole section for mexican food.

I've asked before so, do you have Irish music or Polish music since you have that, and the answer is always, no.

So stupid. With all the ghetto crap, and spanish morons who don't even try to speak the language, and stopping our traditions, this country is going to hell.

My Uncles and Father didn't fight for this Country for nothing.:cmad:

On the pledge thing, you are aware that it only became mainstream to say that in schools during the Red Scare in the 50's, right? It was a tradition born out of fear and stupidity, and should be done away with. At least the "under god" line anyway. If we make muslims, wiccans, and other religons bow down to our god, mandatorially, many of whom were born and raised in america, that violates seperation of church and state. I wouldnt mind if equal time was given, ala, satanist being allowed to bring in a nude virgin to use as their altar, wiccans being allowed to draw their circle and pentagram, athiest being allowed to go up to the front of the class and say how much BS religion is, etc. So the pledge really has nothing to do with anything else in your argument.

On the mexican music and food thing, there's no reason it shouldnt be offered. Wal-Mart doesnt carry soundtracks anymore because they suck, and always have sucked. Why the crap are you buying music from censorship laden Wal-Mart anyway? Are you stupid or something? Go to frickin Best Buy. And alot of white people, and people of all races, including myself, enjoy mexican food. So that argument is stupid too. And you end your whole rant there sounding like you should be in the clan with your "ghetto crap" and "spanish morons" who dont speak our language. If they are in a public situation, ala telemarketing, working fast food, something where they need to talk to people, they should speak english. But then again, white people in those situations should also speak Spanish, as it's the fastest growing language in the country.
 
Let's all respond to rants with rants, this always turns out well.....



They took er jobs!!!!
 
Muslims get upset by the Holocaust because the Holocaust is the reason why Israel was created on what they see as their territory. A lot of Muslims deny the Holocaust even existed and beleive that it was a massive Jewish conspiracy. Take a look at the whack job that is Iran's president.



I think that's a piece a crap point of view. But they have a right to feel that way.

What they don't have right to do is ask that it not be taught in "HISTORY" classes!! That's what the guy is trying to tell you! I'm African-american. Slavery was horrible. It was wrong. But it was frikkin' history and we all need to know it!!

I'm tired of all of these whiners trying to dumb down everything. No dodge ball.....can't speak english (and not even trying to) , trophies for all the kids, no red ink on exam papers!!!
 
I think that's a piece a crap point of view. But they have a right to feel that way.

What they don't have right to do is ask that it not be taught in "HISTORY" classes!! That's what the guy is trying to tell you! I'm African-american. Slavery was horrible. It was wrong. But it was frikkin' history and we all need to know it!!

I'm tired of all of these whiners trying to dumb down everything. No dodge ball.....can't speak english (and not even trying to) , trophies for all the kids, no red ink on exam papers!!!

We should replace history with dodgeball

They took er jewbs!!!
 
I have had enough of all the changes for strangers to our country.


What makes you think these changes are done for strangers, which I assume you are referring to immigrants from other countries. But that is pretty vague. Are you talking about any person who is not a U.S. citizen who chooses to move here or non-westerners and non-white?

How can they stop saying the Pledge in our schools.

They? Again, define they. Also please prove evidence that "they" are responsible. If "they" are the ones, then they must be pretty powerful to accomplish this and there lies the answer to your question.


It's a shame and an insult. Don't come over here saying we have to stop our traditions that have been going on for years!

If "they" have the power to do this and they are doing it, then what good does it do to tell them what not to do?

Would they like it if we went to another country and said they couldn't do their things.

Please go to the library and check out every book, article, and journal on Imperialism and colonialism.

Let's start a comic strip with Mohamed, or however you spell it, I don't care, but NO, that would cause all sorts of crap.

Sorry, you're late. Thats already been done.

So does America have a back bone any more.

America has to have a backbone to be willing to attack Afganistan and then declare war on Iraq under false pretenses and then play Chicken Little by accusing Iran of making WDM and threatening them if they don't cooperate.

Just like how in Britain they can't talk about the Holocaust 'cause it upsets Muslims! What the Hell is that?!!! They just have to forget a part of history to suit them, just 'cause it upsets them. WTF!

There are 1.3 billion of us. I didn't get the memo that says the Holocaust is suppose to offend me because I'm Muslim. (P.S. - Even though all Muslims are of the same faith, we have different views based on nationality, ethnicity, culture, religious dogma, ideology, education level, standard of living, etc.) However it does upset me when I read about it. It was a bad atrocity and even though the western world said never again, it did happen again in Bosnia in the '90s.

That is enough!!!!

Enough? You have to first understand who and what is spurring the things you don't like in America.

We have to keep our traditions, or we become something else.

Our traditions? Who is "Our"? America has always been a multicultural societies with many traditions over our history, some good and some bad. Lynching used to be a tradition as well.

I went into Walmart the other day and they didn't have soundtracks anymore, but they had a whole wall for mexican music!:cmad: And a whole section for mexican food.

Now its becoming a little more clear.

I've asked before so, do you have Irish music or Polish music since you have that, and the answer is always, no.

Beginning to feel the heat and the pressure of becoming a minority eh? Welcome to my world.

So stupid. With all the ghetto crap, and spanish morons who don't even try to speak the language, and stopping our traditions, this country is going to hell.

Yeah, because we know that every country that doesn't have ghetto crap and spanish morons is an Utopia.

My Uncles and Father didn't fight for this Country for nothing.:cmad:

Junior, your uncles and fathers didn't just fight for this country, they stole it from a civilization that was already here and then kidnapped millions of Africans to built it for them. I say that what is happening is pretty ironic, wouldn't you say?
 
America doesn't really have an official language.
 
Junior, your uncles and fathers didn't just fight for this country, they stole it from a civilization that was already here and then kidnapped millions of Africans to built it for them. I say that what is happening is pretty ironic, wouldn't you say?

Name me one civilization in the history of the world that hasn't taken land from someone before them or used slaves.

Just one.
 
Name me one civilization in the history of the world that hasn't taken land from someone before them or used slaves.

Just one.

Why? Yours is an irrelevent question. If your point (thats assuming you have one) is that since every group of people have oppressed other, then its actions are justified, then I have a question for you.

Name one civilization in the history of the world that took land from someone else and used slaves that still exists in its original form and has not suffered from or paid a severe price for that said action?
 
I think that's a piece a crap point of view. But they have a right to feel that way.

What they don't have right to do is ask that it not be taught in "HISTORY" classes!! That's what the guy is trying to tell you! I'm African-american. Slavery was horrible. It was wrong. But it was frikkin' history and we all need to know it!!

I'm tired of all of these whiners trying to dumb down everything. No dodge ball.....can't speak english (and not even trying to) , trophies for all the kids, no red ink on exam papers!!!

exactly- morgoth has said this happens in britain when it doesn't. People complain and they get ignored- its common sense
 
Why? Yours is an irrelevent question. If your point (thats assuming you have one) is that since every group of people have oppressed other, then its actions are justified, then I have a question for you.

Name one civilization in the history of the world that took land from someone else and used slaves that still exists in its original form and has not suffered from or paid a severe price for that said action?

My point was you're delighting in something that no one can claim to have not been a part off. What ever country you're from they took they're land from someone before them and used slaves to build it up. I promise you.

I'll answer your question. None, and America won't either. No country lasts forever. Everyone falls given enough time. Now America is a very young country by almost anyone's standards but I do have to give it credit for beating every other country in the world's learning curve by a few hundred years.

Basically I'm calling you a hypocrite for bringing up something everyone in the history of time has done.

It's funny I started arguing against people who were all let's not change america but even when I'm doing that you still get people like you that do nothing but give the "keep america for the americans, let's go nuke a foreign country" types someone to point their finger at and validate their point. Do you even realize that's what you're doing with comments like that?

Now riddle me this, batman: Name me any country in the world that hasn't gone through percipient decline other than america (which is too young for that)
 
Why? Yours is an irrelevent question. If your point (thats assuming you have one) is that since every group of people have oppressed other, then its actions are justified, then I have a question for you.

Name one civilization in the history of the world that took land from someone else and used slaves that still exists in its original form and has not suffered from or paid a severe price for that said action?



Why is it irrelevant? Because you can't answer it? Everybody's done something bad to somebody! Okay.....we got that...now...fastforward to the present! We got Islamic slave trade going on rigth now! http://www.domini.org/openbook/sud80210.htm
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/easterntrade.html

We don't need Sharia law in this country. Period. This is America. Bring your culture with you. But leave your old laws back wher you came from.
 
Why? Yours is an irrelevent question. If your point (thats assuming you have one) is that since every group of people have oppressed other, then its actions are justified, then I have a question for you.

Name one civilization in the history of the world that took land from someone else and used slaves that still exists in its original form and has not suffered from or paid a severe price for that said action?

He has a good point though. It's rather unfair to villainize one nation when pretty much everyone else has done their fair share of ugly and bad things.
 
Why is it irrelevant? Because you can't answer it? Everybody's done something bad to somebody! Okay.....we got that...now...fastforward to the present! We got Islamic slave trade going on rigth now! http://www.domini.org/openbook/sud80210.htm
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/easterntrade.html

We don't need Sharia law in this country. Period. This is America. Bring your culture with you. But leave your old laws back wher you came from.

Damn fine point, and I appreciate it, but this fella stepped dangerous waters trying to use history here.
 
I'm not going to read back all the way but I will say:

I'm sure threadmaker was written off as a racist ass****, and he probably is a racist ass****.

However, I agree on one thing.
If a huge influx of Americans were dying to get out of America, and relocated in some other country, and expected the natives to adapt as much as immigrants expect we Americans to adapt...they simply wouldn't, and they'd try to have all the Americans kicked out.

If you're an American, and you don't respect the rituals, customs, laws and beliefs of the local population in a foreign country, you are a despicable dog.

But they are all free to come here and completely disrespect our rituals, customs, laws and beliefs. :???:


For instance, when female news correspondents from America go to Islamic countries, they have to wear ridiculous wraps on their heads.

But their women come here and raise a stink when you ask them to simply remove their gear long enough to take their freaking picture for an ID card. :o


This is because every culture innately thinks it's the best one. Most of the world is allowed to continue in this very understandable mind-set, but, since America is the greatest power and sadly has the most evil leadership, we are expected to be more tolerant and more accomodating than anyone else.


The biggest example for me is the way that French people will snicker and treat rudely any American who is weak at speaking French or has a terrible French accent.

But when some French person, an expert or a dignitary, etc., comes on in an interview or something......have they ever once perfected their AMERICAN accent?!?
Of course not. It's hard for us to even understand them at times because....there are 2 ways to look at it:

1) They have a very thick French accent.

OR

2) They have an ATROCIOUS 'AMERICAN' accent.


And in America, a restaurant is a place where you can go to get some food you like when you're hungry.

That is not always true in France.

At some establishments, they dictate to you when and what you can order and consume.

To us that's madness, but if you ask them to bring you a freaking cup of coffee WITH your desert instead of after, they will actually say "Okay"....but will NOT bring it to you until after.

I say, "F*** that. :o"
 
The trick with the French is to get violent with them right off the bat....
 
But only if they come over here and burn someone else's flag
 
I'm not going to read back all the way but I will say:

I'm sure threadmaker was written off as a racist ass****, and he probably is a racist ass****.

However, I agree on one thing.
If a huge influx of Americans were dying to get out of America, and relocated in some other country, and expected the natives to adapt as much as immigrants expect we Americans to adapt...they simply wouldn't, and they'd try to have all the Americans kicked out.

If you're an American, and you don't respect the rituals, customs, laws and beliefs of the local population in a foreign country, you are a despicable dog.

But they are all free to come here and completely disrespect our rituals, customs, laws and beliefs. :???:


For instance, when female news correspondents from America go to Islamic countries, they have to wear ridiculous wraps on their heads.

But their women come here and raise a stink when you ask them to simply remove their gear long enough to take their freaking picture for an ID card. :o


This is because every culture innately thinks it's the best one. Most of the world is allowed to continue in this very understandable mind-set, but, since America is the greatest power and sadly has the most evil leadership, we are expected to be more tolerant and more accomodating than anyone else.


The biggest example for me is the way that French people will snicker and treat rudely any American who is weak at speaking French or has a terrible French accent.

But when some French person, an expert or a dignitary, etc., comes on in an interview or something......have they ever once perfected their AMERICAN accent?!?
Of course not. It's hard for us to even understand them at times because....there are 2 ways to look at it:

1) They have a very thick French accent.

OR

2) They have an ATROCIOUS 'AMERICAN' accent.


And in America, a restaurant is a place where you can go to get some food you like when you're hungry.

That is not always true in France.

At some establishments, they dictate to you when and what you can order and consume.

To us that's madness, but if you ask them to bring you a freaking cup of coffee WITH your desert instead of after, they will actually say "Okay"....but will NOT bring it to you until after.

I say, "F*** that. :o"

Ok, while I'm not a fan of the current leadership in America (or for the last 20 years for that matter) I'm trying not to laugh at you terming us as have the MOST evil leadership. I can name about twenty world leaders right now that would have started nuclear war and mass genocide if they had our kind of power.

You're other points are great but let's call stupid stupid and evil evil and not get the two mixed up too much.
 
I hate when I go to Wendy's and order a Medium Chocolate Frosty, a medium fry, and 2 double stacks. Then I drive away with a diet coke, A single stack, and a small fry. WTF!!!!!!

I can't understand a word they say, but they should atleast understand me!
 
Damn fine point, and I appreciate it, but this fella stepped dangerous waters trying to use history here.

really? how so?
:huh:
and I fail to see how slave trade is a "muslim" thing now.
I would think twice about saying "damn fine point" when it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.
since nowhere in the thread is there a mention of Instituting Sharia Law.
remember that Celldog is a Bigot that hates Muslims, that's all.
History teaches us that the Greatest centers of Knowledge often spoke more than one language.
that's History.
that opression through Military might often brings economic consequences.
that's History.
and that traditions often change to acommodate other ( Christmas, I'm looking at you) even religions do this.
it's quite easy to get lost in subjective portions of history when we so wish.
it's just not that wise.
and Wil, you know I love you man, but I think your analogy is missing something.

see you said

" However, I agree on one thing.
If a huge influx of Americans were dying to get out of America, and relocated in some other country, and expected the natives to adapt as much as immigrants expect we Americans to adapt...they simply wouldn't, and they'd try to have all the Americans kicked out."

this makes it seem like this is happening right now. which is
well, I think the point of the thread correct me if I'm wrong.
in which case a slight correction should be made.


" However, I agree on one thing.
If a huge influx of poor, uneducated Americans were dying to get out of America, and relocated in some other country, and were unable to adapt easily, coupled with an economic crisis easily blamed on immigration to divert from the real causes,they'd try to have all the Americans kicked out."

because the thing I don't get is the part where everyone is getting "forced to adapt" I go to San Diego all the time and the people that are able to speak Spanish are almost always of South American descent.
(knowing numbers and 2 or 3 key phrases is not "learning spanish" BTW)
so I fail to see the impact that they have ( in the south american's case, not "spanish people" because saying that is just stupid) maybe ya'll can enlighten me. :huh:
 
and Wil, you know I love you man, but I think your analogy is missing something.

see you said

" However, I agree on one thing.
If a huge influx of Americans were dying to get out of America, and relocated in some other country, and expected the natives to adapt as much as immigrants expect we Americans to adapt...they simply wouldn't, and they'd try to have all the Americans kicked out."

this makes it seem like this is happening right now.

Uh....no. :huh:
I said, very clearly, "IF" that was happening.
And the reason I said "dying to get out" was to succinctly role-reverse....meaning, in this hypothetical, America is an impoverished country, so Americans are "dying to get out" of it, to go elsewhere, not for "a sabbatical", or "an extended vacation", but for survival.
See?



Mr Sparkle said:
because the thing I don't get is the part where everyone is getting "forced to adapt" I go to San Diego all the time and the people that are able to speak Spanish are almost always of South American descent.
(knowing numbers and 2 or 3 key phrases is not "learning spanish" BTW)
so I fail to see the impact that they have ( in the south american's case, not "spanish people" because saying that is just stupid) maybe ya'll can enlighten me. :huh:

I don't know who you're talking to with th^t.
If it was directed at me, I never said "forced to adapt"
I said "expected to adapt".
Massive, Galactus-Sized difference.
 
Uh....no. :huh:
I said, very clearly, "IF" that was happening.
And the reason I said "dying to get out" was to succinctly role-reverse....meaning, in this hypothetical, America is an impoverished country, so Americans are "dying to get out" of it, to go elsewhere, not for "a sabbatical", or "an extended vacation", but for survival.
See?

oh, then I do see.
and you know we often disagree on that, since they are poor and ignorant languages might be a bit tougher to grasp.
nevertheless, point taken.
hence our disagreement.





I don't know who you're talking to with th^t.
If it was directed at me, I never said "forced to adapt"
I said "expected to adapt".
Massive, Galactus-Sized difference.

not YOU :cmad::cmad::cmad::heart:
everyone in this thread pretty much who are acting as if some new
"anti-american" legislation had been passed overnight.
hence "ya'll could enlighten me"
and galactus isn't that massive.
well he is, but the celestials are better
Celestials.jpg
 
My point was you're delighting in something that no one can claim to have not been a part off. What ever country you're from they took they're land from someone before them and used slaves to build it up. I promise you.

Please tell me how by call I'm delighting in this by reminding that his fathers and uncles do more than just fight for this country? There is nothing delightful in my ancestors being on the receiving end of manifest destiny.

I'll answer your question. None, and America won't either. No country lasts forever. Everyone falls given enough time. Now America is a very young country by almost anyone's standards but I do have to give it credit for beating every other country in the world's learning curve by a few hundred years.

Yes, you speak the truth. I'm glad that you are open-minded to realize this.

Basically I'm calling you a hypocrite for bringing up something everyone in the history of time has done.

Oh, now you hurt my feelings. :whatever: Call me what you want, but the truth hurts does it? If it makes you feel better by thinking what happened in this country is lessen in someway because everyone has done it, they you need to read a book. There's a reason why American slavery was called that "Peculiar institution". Do the research son.

It's funny I started arguing against people who were all let's not change america but even when I'm doing that you still get people like you that do nothing but give the "keep america for the americans, let's go nuke a foreign country" types someone to point their finger at and validate their point. Do you even realize that's what you're doing with comments like that?

Are you kidding? Either you have me confused or you have a learning deficiency. America for the Americans? America becoming a microcosm of the entire world and was built on diversity. That is what gives this country the potential for greatness, and I'm not talking about military and economic might. People have and will continue to come here and enrich this society for the better. Why in the hell would I want to go nuke a foreign country? One of the largest atrocities in the history of mankind was America's bombing of Japan. Again, when countries oppress others, they will fall victim to their own actions.



Now riddle me this, batman: Name me any country in the world that hasn't gone through percipient decline other than america (which is too young for that)

After that hypocrite remark, I'll end my conversation with you here but I'll leave you with a lasting thought. America's decline will actually prove to be its reform.
 

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