The Dark Knight Rises Is most of the criticism directed towards the movie fair?

[BatJeff7786]

It is most definitely Nolan's worst film, but it is still an entertaining one. There is definitely a lack of concern and care, both technically and thematically that doesn't seem to be present in the first two films. It definitely seems to embrace some more "comic booky" elements and feels a little sillier, and basically boils down to a typical supervillain revenge story. The lack of any perspective from Gotham citizens really, really hurts the idea of Bane's plan ever working. I'd argue that the performances from the actors, (despite some weird but memorable choices from Hardy for the voice to a useless and overdone Matthew Modine performance)are better than some have stated. Pretty much all the main actors give it their all. The final act seems very condensed and rushed, and I might be the first to say this, but some (not all) of the major shot compositions just don't look great, particularly the final battle. It's not that all of them were like that, there are definitely some mesmerizing shots, but they are paired with some not so amazing ones, and it feels really inconsistent, which is where people's issues with the editing & music come in. Some things just feel jammed together. Nolan may have made the film he wanted to make, but there was no passion this time. It's what you do when WB lets you make INCEPTION however you want. You do one for them if they do one for you. And while he definitely could have done worse, Nolan definitely did not knock it out of the park like he has with his last few films.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I´ve seen the very other way around.

The funny thing is that you're right. All three films in Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy has had 90% complaints that seem like just nitpicks while the other 10% seem like actual and real criticism.

It's deserved practically all of the criticisms it's gotten. It's the worst one of Nolan's Bat movies.

In lots of people's opinions.

It is most definitely Nolan's worst film, but it is still an entertaining one. There is definitely a lack of concern and care, both technically and thematically that doesn't seem to be present in the first two films. It definitely seems to embrace some more "comic booky" elements and feels a little sillier, and basically boils down to a typical supervillain revenge story. The lack of any perspective from Gotham citizens really, really hurts the idea of Bane's plan ever working. I'd argue that the performances from the actors, (despite some weird but memorable choices from Hardy for the voice to a useless and overdone Matthew Modine performance)are better than some have stated. Pretty much all the main actors give it their all. The final act seems very condensed and rushed, and I might be the first to say this, but some (not all) of the major shot compositions just don't look great, particularly the final battle. It's not that all of them were like that, there are definitely some mesmerizing shots, but they are paired with some not so amazing ones, and it feels really inconsistent, which is where people's issues with the editing & music come in. Some things just feel jammed together. Nolan may have made the film he wanted to make, but there was no passion this time. It's what you do when WB lets you make INCEPTION however you want. You do one for them if they do one for you. And while he definitely could have done worse, Nolan definitely did not knock it out of the park like he has with his last few films.

Looking at a general consensus, I'd say that Batman Begins can be viewed by many as the weakest of the trilogy and NOT TDKR. I don't know why some think the majority views TDKR as the weakest.

 

[Agent Orange]

Insomnia is easily Nolan's weakest effort. It's a typical "who-dun-it" thriller littered with Nolan's penchant for exploring the minds of psychologically damaged individuals.

Skjoldbjærg's original is much better.

The Dark Knight Rises takes some of Nolan's worst indulgences and amplifies them by ten but it's done in an earnest, entertaining fashion. I also appreciated the risk that Nolan took with the ending. Some folks would contend that it's a blasé Hollywoodized ending and I would disagree there. Look at the firestorm that it's ignited amongst some of the more ardent, and dare I say, obsessive Batman fans on the internet. Nolan stayed true to the arc that he started in Batman Begins and didn't deviate -- "People need dramatic examples to shake them out of apathy, and I can’t do that as Bruce Wayne. As a man, I’m flesh and blood. I can be ignored, I can be destroyed. But as a symbol … as a symbol, I can be incorruptible. I can be everlasting."

Now, you could say that killing Wayne would have been more powerful but I'm glad that Alfred's faith was rewarded. The old man deserved to find some peace after watching Bruce suffer for 8+ years.

 

[The Joker]

TDKR is by far the weakest one in the Nolan Batman trilogy, IMO. That's not to say it's a bad movie at all. It broke the superhero trilogy curse. It just does not live up to the standards either of it's predecessors set, IMO.

 

[MAKAVELI25]

As someone who thinks Batman Begins and TDK are miles above any superhero movie ever released, I just cannot say the same for TDKR. The tone of the series has changed, stuff like the Bat racing out of the city with a nuclear bomb and Bane giving Bruce just enough time to heal before the bomb explodes make it just another comic book movie. I always felt like BB and TDK were masterpieces, there were so many ways you could look at them and explore the different themes Nolan was trying to present. TDKR is just another summer blockbuster, a well acted one, but not on the level of its predecessors. It's a shame that Christian Bale's best performance in the trilogy takes place in its weakest entrry

 

[Anno_Domini]

TDKR is by far the weakest one in the Nolan Batman trilogy, IMO. That's not to say it's a bad movie at all. It broke the superhero trilogy curse. It just does not live up to the standards either of it's predecessors set, IMO.

I'd have to say BB is the weakest, but that, as much as your feelings with TDKR, does not mean BB is a bad movie at all. Heck, look at my sig as I even gave BB a 8/10. While Batman Begins was a great origin film, I feel the Nolan brothers added so much to The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises that transcends the genre of CBMs.

 

[Anno_Domini]

As someone who thinks Batman Begins and TDK are miles above any superhero movie ever released, I just cannot say the same for TDKR. The tone of the series has changed, stuff like the Bat racing out of the city with a nuclear bomb and Bane giving Bruce just enough time to heal before the bomb explodes make it just another comic book movie. I always felt like BB and TDK were masterpieces, there were so many ways you could look at them and explore the different themes Nolan was trying to present. TDKR is just another summer blockbuster, a well acted one, but not on the level of its predecessors. It's a shame that Christian Bale's best performance in the trilogy takes place in its weakest entrry

Silly coincidences happened just as much as BB and TDK but yet they never seem to be brought up as much as TDKR's. Maybe it's because TDKR is the most recent installment and down the line TDKR will just be viewed as a great film as it is just like BB and TDK.

 

[Victarion]

To be fair, Bane didn't "give" Bruce 5 months. Bruce as just motivated enough to get himself out of the Pit and back to Gotham before the nuke went up. Bane being pragmatic enough to grab a shotgun to kill Bruce showed me that he wasn't so entrenched in his vendetta that he'd let it get in the way of their goal.

 

[BatLobster]

In short, it doesn't really matter if the criticism is "fair" or not. The film still made a billion dollars and is overall quite well-received, with the trilogy heralded as a modern classic. It was inevitable and pretty much expected that more people would line up to take shots at it this time around. Comes with the territory of being on top. And there was a lot of bitterness unfortunately between Nolan-Bat fans and Nolan-Bat haters, which had been bubbling for years.

The fire rises, indeed.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Begins was the weakest of the three but that's not even a criticism since it was still a great film.

The first half of the film was great but by the 2nd half it sort of turned into a generic action caper with the doomsday device. TDKR sort of took that element and expanded and improved on it. It was begins on steroids to an extent.

And the ppl saying TDKR is the weakest Nolan films have most likely seen like 4 nolan films period.

 

[ultimatefan]

TDKR is by far the weakest one in the Nolan Batman trilogy, IMO. That's not to say it's a bad movie at all. It broke the superhero trilogy curse. It just does not live up to the standards either of it's predecessors set, IMO.

It´s much better than BB IMO. Better pacing, more epic, more consistent in style with TDK, and although it has a more intricate plot it´s proportionally less talky and expositional if you look back at them.

The Nolan film I was the least happy with was The Prestige, and again not that it´s a bad movie. But his other ones have more of a moral/emotional center.

 

[weezerspider]

Regarding the 15 points in that article:

1. Everyone in the LoS knew Bruce was Batman. It's ridiculous to assume everyone involved in the siege of Gotham in BB died. They took a big hit and it took awhile regroup, get a new leader and a new plan. A decade? Thats pretty reasonable. Last I checked the 9/11 attacks on the WTC were around a decade after the first attacks. As far as the applied sciences, Bruce was giving Talia a lot of power even showing her the energy reactor which he was clearly paranoid as **** about. I'm not saying he straight up told her about applied sciences, but I wouldn't be surprised if he gave information to her that he unknowingly knew would lead her to find it.

2. I agree this was pretty stupid. It seemed to be a nod to Tim Drake figuring out Batman's identity. A bit cheesy, but it does build a bond between the characters. Certainly a flawed concept though.

3. I thought it made for an intense dramatic story. A matter of opinion.

4. For claiming to be all for the comics, they apparently didn't read TDKReturns. This certainly feels like Alfred from that story, not wanting Bruce to go back out there. Honestly he should have left back in Begins. Alfred clearly was just as crazy as Bruce to go along with such a crazed idea. However, Alfred, while strangely ok with helping his "son" (essentially) fight crime for a while, he finally has come to his senses. He saw it as a way to make Bruce stop. He was wrong, but it actually makes perfect sense and certainly adds to Alfred's "father figure" persona to Bruce.

5. We never know the depths of what Bane is actually doing there aside from what he did with Bruce's money. Is that all he did, or did he do more? We don't need to know, but then again, if we are going to use the SEC reasoning I will ask this: Couldn't Bruce have just joined the force like a normal human being? Couldn't Gotham just rely on its cops? This is an example of nitpicking IMO.

6. Talia is clearly toying with Bruce. And Bruce, who just discovered his girlfriend who died 8 years ago didn't actually love him, yeah he's pretty vulnerable. Its not like these are two normal human beings who randomly have sex. This is a psycho ***** out for revenge looking for anyway and every way to toy with Bruce's mind. And Bruce is a sexless zombie who stays up all night fighting crime. Honestly, this scene made sense.

7.. They answered this question themselves. Batman is all about using theatrics to his advantage and Bane was pretty surprised when he saw it. However, it occurred at NIGHT. People don't seem to get that Batman purposefully waited until the dawn to wage his war against Bane. What else was he going to do waiting until dawn? For those who don't know, Batman waited until dawn because he learned that the shadows belonged to Bane and he knew his best way to defeat him was out in the bright open. I personally thought that was painstakingly clear the first time I saw it.

8. They are both very resourceful women. I'm sure they had fake ID's and fake backgrounds.

9. Bane's plan was to torture Bruce's mind. They were going to destroy Gotham, yes, but Talia and Bane intentionally wanted to hurt Bruce as much in the process as possible, getting revenge on Ras' death. The doctor was there to make sure he wouldn't die before Gotham was destroyed, again, because they were torturing him. He takes him to his prison because he feels its the worst hell on earth.

10. I too would have liked to know this. A major plot hole? No, but certainly a bit flawed.

11. Bane explains this in the movie. The whole point of it is to give hope of an unattainable freedom to the prisoners. Bane believes this false hope, like the ocean to shipwrecked men, spoils one's mind. Again, more torture for Bruce.

12. I agree with this. It should have been more war torn.

13. I can't deny that these are pretty dumb concepts, but at the same time, all films thrive on this type of suspended belief. We start taking major points from TDKR away for these things, pretty soon we can't enjoy any movie.

14. Pretty much agreed.

15. This is just nitpicking at its finest. The ending was fine.

 

[Victarion]

@6. Talia looked quite a bit like Rachel during the manor scene, leading up to their one-nighter. I doubt it was coincidence.

 

[Doctor Who]

This article lists gripes that i think the majority of the people have with this movie:

http://www.slashfilm.com/15-bothered-the-dark-knight-rises/

I also share most of the same sentiments; but I just wanna fellow fans if you think my sentiments are justified:

As a batman fan, I am readily familiar with the character of the dark knight. I have also watched all the trailers and the press coverage before seeing the film; that is why everything in the movie failed to surprise me. I guess this really hampered my enjoyment of the film because I could see everything coming. For example I knew that batman would get beaten to a pulp on his 1st fight with bane and take him down on the 2nd fight. I knew that batman would sacrfice himself and detonate the nuke remotely as soon as talia died (just 2 prime examples)

I know a number of people have stated the film's reliance on exposition and flashbacks. I have already seen the previous films so this aspect didn't bother me at all. In fact I actually enjoyed them.

The music doesn't seem fresh and sound like remixes of the tracks in begins and TDK. In addition, the music didn't really seem to fit the scenes they were played in.

I was really disappointed with the fights and the choregraphy. Batman should be MUCH faster. With all that growling, the Bane vs. Batman fights were akin to wrestlers trading blows with each other. A another example of this was when Batman rescues Robin John Blake when he is surrounded by gunmen. The gunmen looked like they were waiting to get punched in the face. The choregraphy does not reflect the speed of the Batman as depicted in the comics.

This is a serious film and Nolan has made it clear that he wants to keep things as realistic as possible. However, a number of ridiculous things happen during the film. I won't go into detail but there are notable plot holes, cheesey scenes, plain unrealistic sequences (cops start rushing at the terrorists when the tanks are locked and loaded), the amount of explosions and chaos reminded me of a michael bay film, gothamites joining bane's terrorist cause against the gotham elites. Bane and his army of supporters take over Gotham City and block all means of transportation separating the city from the outside world. The very next scene features a montage of U.S. military commanders scrambling jets and the President of the United States holding a press conference about the fate of Gotham. While the rest of the world abandons Gotham, batman becomes the city's only hope. So much for realism . . .
It just feels so incredibly silly that begs so many unnecessary questions and possible scenarios — I really had to suspend my disbelief contemplating the possibility of Batman and the Navy Seals teaming up to combat terrorism.
Furthmore, how Bruce Wayne suddenly develops a romantic interest in Miranda is beyond me. Maybe he just wanted to end his eight years of abstinence?

Nolan himself talks about "adding scale, raising the stakes; like a war or disaster movie". Critic Christopher Orr sums this up perfectly - "Of the Batman films, it's the one in which Nolan's ambitions have most clearly outstripped his results"

Overall TDKR seems more 'epic' for the sake of being 'epic' like a traditional action blockbuster rather than being deemed epic from quality storytelling, acting and characterization. I felt that Nolan's thinking this time was that since it's his last batman, he had to make it as epic as possible; and when one thinks like this, he risks cramming the film, sacrificing quality for quantity.

I think TDK was just too good due to Heath's indescribly awesome performance. Thus my expectations were overly inflated.

Or maybe the joker is just too good of a villan. Bane just felt flat in comparison.
Not surprisingly, I feel that my own review is unfairly biased. That being said, TDKR is still leagues ahead of any other superhero movie.

But enough of the bad. I felt that one of the positives was that Nolan tried to reconnect the story back to Begins. He reminds us that batman is a mere human. That he is just a man; and he touches on batman's roots: why he became the bat in the 1st place.

Even though there was a lot of over the top action sequences, nolan was a saint in keeping the amount of special effects low. I appreciate him keeping it raw and visceral. i also appreciate the inclusion of various comic book characters

In summary TDKR was very disappointing for me. I was also very nervous while watching it lol. Nolan really outdid himself with TDK and I'm sorry to say that he should have left it at that. I'm willing to accept that TDK is the best superhero film that I will see in this lifetime.

I would just like to ask if fellow fans share the same sentiments or think that my sentiments are justified.

Thanks

It's one thing to argue, but these points are hardly anything that can be argued; it's stupid, honestly. It's hard to find an intelligent opinion these days.

And if I had any problem with TDKR, it was that I felt it lacked the sense of danger that BB and TDK had; I didn't get the effect of "Oh s*it, Gotham's being run over, we're all trapped!!! Where's Batman to save us?!?!" You got a little bit, and when bridges started to blow and Gotham became Ground Zero, it seemed devastating; the rich were ripped out from their homes, formations began for armies, courts are now biased, and ruthless punishment would be sentenced to those non-abiding to this law. But after that, I did feel like the ball was dropped.

I feel the threat and stakes would be higher if we got more response from the Gothamites who were experiencing this supposed hell. You definitely got that idea in Batman Begins with the Narrows, and The Dark Knight with Joker's chaos. And with TDKR being promoted as an EPIC, I felt that the conflict and danger just didn't live up. Doesn't stop me from loving this film to death, but I won't deny that we all expected more of an emotional power punch.

 

[Golgo-13]

I think the weakest elements of the film; the vague transitions in time lapses and the Mirander/Bruce relationship make the other things stand out more. I think if these two aspects of the film would have been better executed the other issues would not have been noticeable.

BB suffers from this too; how long did Bruce train with the LOS? The movie makes it appear like a few weeks/months but i'm sure it was years.

Bruces back injury healing; when first pulled up on the rope, he has stubble on his face. When he finally stands by himself, he has a beard and has different clothing, so he had probably been routinely hung up for weeks until he stood by himself. Poor transition.

 

[Frodo]

Is the criticism toward this film fair? . At the end of the day, does it really matter what anyone else thinks of a film as long as you like or don't like it? The way one views a film is entirely subjective . There is no standard that everyone will agree to as to what constitutes fair or harsh criticism because everyone has their own subjective standard.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

I think the weakest elements of the film; the vague transitions in time lapses and the Mirander/Bruce relationship make the other things stand out more. I think if these two aspects of the film would have been better executed the other issues would not have been noticeable.

BB suffers from this too; how long did Bruce train with the LOS? The movie makes it appear like a few weeks/months but i'm sure it was years.

Bruces back injury healing; when first pulled up on the rope, he has stubble on his face. When he finally stands by himself, he has a beard and has different clothing, so he had probably been routinely hung up for weeks until he stood by himself. Poor transition.

hey when you meet and court Hayley Atwell can we share her?

 

[BlackFox]

To be honest it had an almost impossible task in following TDK, nothing could really have topped what came before. So this criticism can be levelled at it but seems a little unfair. Its the best Batman film after TDK for me, and most people I speak to still consider it their film of the year so far so cant have done too many things wrong.

People will always hate though, TDK I've heard people complain about on here so nothings perfect I guess. I will just enjoy what a great trilogy we have and let those that are not so happy deal with their own issues, no one can make you like something you hate and vice versa.

 

[jmc]

I think a major issue for some is that the film lacks thematic focus. There's so many ideas going on during the movie but none are really given the payoff they deserve, if only one of those ideas were given the spotlight then we're probably talking about a much better movie.

 

[Vader815]

There's a fantastic article that was posted on Nolanfans.com defending the movie that effectively rebuts more of Slashfilm's points.

http://www.nolanfans.com/2012/07/26/15-things-that-didnt-bother-us-about-the-dark-knight-rises/

-Vader

 

[Frodo]

I think the film has alot of good ideas and interesting concepts . I think the main problem is that Nolan had too many good ideas and I think he could have synthesized some characters , got rid of others, and canned the concepts that don't really go anywhere he could have had a tighter film. The interesting thing about TDKR , is that unlike most third films , there were alot of different directions you could go and a great amount of ideas you could incorporate.

The problem is I think you have alot of good ideas that don't always gell together to form a single entity. The 1 vs 99%, A City under occupation, The Dent Act, The LOS revenge plot, A broken hero learning to rise again, the torch passed to a new generation, The hero who meets his match, etc are all good ideas but I feel alot of the good stuff is kinda gets lost in the suffle or is just dropped.

 

[BatmanBeyond]

To be fair, Bane didn't "give" Bruce 5 months. Bruce as just motivated enough to get himself out of the Pit and back to Gotham before the nuke went up. Bane being pragmatic enough to grab a shotgun to kill Bruce showed me that he wasn't so entrenched in his vendetta that he'd let it get in the way of their goal.

Not to mention the movie tells us that it takes 5 months for the reactor to turn into a nuclear bomb. The LoS of TDKR were not the same organisation from BB. Their ideals had changed and their main objective was revenge against Bruce Wayne, the one who killed their leader. But it wasn't just simple revenge, they meant to destroy everything Bruce had fought for during his time as Batman. It wasn't about the city's peace being built on a lie, it was about destroying Bruce Wayne from the inside as it were. Bane practically further twists the knife by rendering Batman's sacrifice at the end of TDK as inconsequential when he reveals Gordon's speech to the people. Batman's conflicts with his villains in the Nolan trilogy have consistently been ideological at their core.

TDKR, like TDK, is esentially another attempt at deconstructing Batman, at breaking him, this time by the remnants of the LoS. And unlike the Joker, Bane also deals a physical breaking to Bruce. What makes TDKR powerful, maybe as powerful as TDK, is that even after this latest titanic effort at breaking him, Bruce still manages to rise above it all, his spirit intact. It's essentially Nolan's take on Batman's only (well, one of his only) superpower: his determination.

 

[BlueLantern]

In retrospect, whilst I loved the film to bits, there is a different version I'd like to have seen.

A version where the film does dwell on the revolution a lot more and shows how Gotham is truly being torn apart, regardless of whether there's a ticking clock or not.

 

[MAKAVELI25]

In retrospect, whilst I loved the film to bits, there is a different version I'd like to have seen.

A version where the film does dwell on the revolution a lot more and shows how Gotham is truly being torn apart, regardless of whether there's a ticking clock or not.

That and more focus on Bane, Catwoman, and Talia. My biggest gripe with the film is that I never gave a crap about Gotham's inhabitants in a movie where they faced their biggest threat. In TDK I feared the Joker because I thought he posed a legitimate threat to everyday people, TDKR didn't spend enough time with the everyday people to even make us care about the revolution. Some of my problems:

1. I just didn't buy Bane's motivation. I think it really undermines him as a villain that the only legitimate reason as to why he's doing all of this is because of a woman. I'm sure he would do a lot to protect her, but taking over a city? More time should have been spent giving him a plausible reason. I completely buy the Joker's motivations, and even to some extent Ra's (as crazy as they are), Bane wasn't a fully formed villain

2. As much as I love Hathaway's performance, she really is inconsequential to the movie. Take her out and there's not really much of a difference. Great character, deserved a lot more screentime

3. Talia. Motivated solely by revenge, boring as hell.

4. Where the hell was Gordon? Great character, I would have loved to see more scenes with he and Batman

This is what leads me to say that John Blake had WAY too much screentime. I understand that they had to develop him so the ending made sense, but I would rather he had been taken out all together than have him steal valuable screentime from more interesting characters

 

[BatLobster]

I think a major issue for some is that the film lacks thematic focus. There's so many ideas going on during the movie but none are really given the payoff they deserve, if only one of those ideas were given the spotlight then we're probably talking about a much better movie.

I think of TDKR as like a mosaic of some of the more epic themes in cinema. Life/Death, Pain/Strength, Hope/Despair, War/Peace, Legacy, Rebirth...kind of the endless cycle of all these things and one one gives "rise" to the other.

Not all great films have a singular theme that can be boiled down to one word or sentence.