The Dark Knight Rises Is most of the criticism directed towards the movie fair?

[BatLobster]

Challenging? I'm sorry but TDKR is not challenging, it's thematically cluttered. You can't say to people who love not only the previous films in the series but Nolan entire catalog of work that we just don't get it, in fact I'll go so far to say those people are the one who would welcome a challenging film. The issue is this film isn't a challenge, it's sloppy, I can see the points people make in regards to the films themes linking, but that doesn't excuse how they are executed and that's what I find it boils down to - excuses. People are giving the film a free pass and justifying things are just flat out badly done, poorly written characters, cliched plot devices, plot twist etc, trying to make out this or that actually works if you really think about it and elevating the film to a level it frankly doesn't deserve.

I never said you or anyone here didn't get it. But I do think it's a film that you get more out of the more you engage with it, that's just what I've come to find and I've felt that way about plenty of films in the past, including TDK. The fact that TDKR actually improved for me and many others on subsequent viewings supports this line of thought. So many more small details pop out, their importance gaining clarity. In fact, re-watching BB and TDK, I found myself getting more out of those films in light of TDKR. And like TDK, many of the themes are never really flat out stated in the film. One of the biggest being redemption, which is a constant and key theme in the film connected to several major characters. And while that was an inevitable theme we all knew this film would tackle, I actually really liked how it was handled in the film, as there were far easier routes this movie could have taken to get there and it went in far more interesting directions, in my opinion. If I could sum up TDKR in one image, it would be Bruce climbing out of the pit. And that to me speaks volumes.

Criticizing the film by saying its themes are too cluttered to me sounds like, "The film is confused about what it wants to say". Was it bloated? Yes, a bit. But I kinda love it for that, because that's precisely what I wanted and expected the film to be. Robust, packed to the brim, bursting with ideas and enough plot for 8 movies. It's Nolan's style and I've come to appreciate it. I've certainly praised TDK for having the same qualities. There are many thematic ideas thrown around for us to chew on/correlate, and to give the film an epic scope, but I found the film to be very sure-footed about the take home message it was delivering. That's why I disagree that the movie was thematically unfocused.

No excuses. Just my my honest opinion. For you to say I'm just making excuses is as unfair as me saying you don't get it...which I never intended to imply, so I apologize if it came across that way.

 

[RIPCOVictims]

Meeh , who cares...as long as you like it.

There's definitely fanboys who like the movie and want for everyone to like it. Just like the other way. Some *****es dont like the movie , and they cant accept there's a lot of people who enjoyed them . I definitely think its strange someone not liking an movie , and simply not letting it go , but its their right. I prefer to spend my time with things i enjoy. Being Nolan's Batman one of them.

You call people who criticize the movie "*****es", yet I've seen plenty of times where fans of the movie continually respond with DBag-ish posts that simply say "In your opinion" (as if stating this obvious fact somehow diminishes the credibility of the criticism). I guess it's easier to keep dropping this line and trying to always get the last word in without actually engaging in a real discussion.

 

[BlueLantern]

I think a lot of the criticism is over the top. That being said, the film IS thematically cluttered. Catwoman wasn't really needed.

Her scenes were good, but like Talia, she was underused and underwritten. Personal opinion is that a lot of it was removed during the whittling down of the script from 400 pages to 165. I'd have rather seen two films than have an edited one, where a lot of ideas were removed.

It's a damn good film, and there's plenty in there to warrant it as a fantastic conclusion to the trilogy. However, I would've wanted to see more.

Personally, I think the film needed to be split into two and given it's due time to tell a complete story, where Jonah Nolan's script gets to stretch its dramatic legs. As good as TDKR was, there wasn't a lot of depth to the characters, bar Bruce Wayne and John Blake.

Still an 8.5/10 though.

 

[Tequilla]

You call people who criticize the movie "*****es", yet I've seen plenty of times where fans of the movie continually respond with DBag-ish posts that simply say "In your opinion" (as if stating this obvious fact somehow diminishes the credibility of the criticism). I guess it's easier to keep dropping this line and trying to always get the last word in without actually engaging in a real discussion.

No , i did not call *****es people criticizing the movie. I called *****es to people who didn't like the movie , and cant accept that other people enjoyed it. Just like there is angry fanboys on the other side. And yes they are also *****y. But i definitely understand why people who loved it keep talking about it , on the other hand , people who didn't like it but simply cant le it go...its definitely strange , at least for me , who likes to spend time discussing or making stuff that i throughly enjoy.

 

[Frodo]

I guess I just don't get why either side can't seem to accept that people can look at the same thing and feel very differently about it. It really is a matter of taste. While I count my self as somewhere in the middle on TDKR , I don't hold a grudge against those who love it and those who don't . It's just a movie.

However in the fanboy , online messageboard world, everything is at extremes ,so if you like something, you better worship it. If you dislike something, you better consider it an abomination.

 

[Doc Samson]

I guess I just don't get why either side can't seem to accept that people can look at the same thing and feel very differently about it. It really is a matter of taste. While I count my self as somewhere in the middle on TDKR , I don't hold a grudge against those who love it and those who don't . It's just a movie.

However in the fanboy , online messageboard world, everything is at extremes ,so if you like something, you better worship it. If you dislike something, you better consider it an abomination.

Sounds about right, even though more often than not, the internet is the haven for disgruntled, pessimistic angst.

 

[BH/HHH]

Everyone has different tastes I loved the movie but I can see why people wouldn't have

 

[Doc Samson]

Oh I agree with you, I think what Frodo was pointing to were the wild extremes on either side, with no possibility of a middle ground. Personally I didn't care for Avengers all that much, but I can understand why people like it.

Conversely, like you said, I enjoyed TDKR but I've also been on here daily pointing out the things that weren't all that great. It's just the fanatical aspect around here sometimes that resembles drunks cheering on their favorite Football team at a dive bar or something. That part can get a little strange....

 

[Oscorp]

No , i did not call *****es people criticizing the movie. I called *****es to people who didn't like the movie , and cant accept that other people enjoyed it. Just like there is angry fanboys on the other side. And yes they are also *****y. But i definitely understand why people who loved it keep talking about it , on the other hand , people who didn't like it but simply cant le it go...its definitely strange , at least for me , who likes to spend time discussing or making stuff that i throughly enjoy.

You should go tell this to some people at the ASM-boards.

 

[Anno_Domini]

You should go tell this to some people at the ASM-boards.

Or just ignore them like some kiddos

 

[Tequilla]

You should go tell this to some people at the ASM-boards.

Yes , this is something that happens everywhere. There's a lot of *****es t: I dont go to ASM boards because i loathed the movie (and im a huge Spidey fan). I can understand people felling a little irritated if, after a while , people go to a fan-community full of people who cherished the movie , and keep bashing it.

Avengers was a piece of crap. I discussed a little bit of the movie with some friends , might have wrote something about it...and that's it. I dont go to places full of Avengers fans just to nitpick about the movie. It was a horrible experience , low level film-making , why would i care discussing it ?

 

[Lionhart99]

thanks for all the feedback ;
perhaps 'fair' wasn't the right word to use since all criticism can be considered 'fair' if they are properly justified and backed up by examples.

I still stand by the my own personal criticisms of the film and the criticism offered by "http://www.slashfilm.com/15-bothered-the-dark-knight-rises/"

I still feel that it is a film where the expectations of fans, nolan and myself were too high which ultimately resulted in the micro-analysis and nitpicking amongst fans.

But lets not forget that it is Nolan who 1st put the bar so high up in the 1st place with TDK.

However I do think that Heath's Joker really defined TDK and because the source material is so good for the Joker, he never fails to entertain. If you look batman's rogues gallery; they are all mirror images of batman, each addressing his weaknesses. What makes the Jokers such a good villain is that he is a polar opposite to everything that batman is; that why he is regarded to be the nemesis of Batman. Just look at Batman 1989 which also focuses on the Joker. It is regarded to be the best Batman film prior to Nolan's reboot. As good as Hardy's Bane was, I couldn't help but feel the absence of the Joker throughout TDKR because of the massive impact he had on TDK. For him not to be even mentioned in TDKR definitely feels out of place.

If I am not mistaken, I recall Nolan stating in an interview that he regarded TDKR as being superior to the rest of the trilogy. Here we see a man who's vision and ambition have outstripped his results. The amount of analysis and critical reviews reflect this.

 

[MAKAVELI25]

It is most definitely Nolan's worst film, but it is still an entertaining one. There is definitely a lack of concern and care, both technically and thematically that doesn't seem to be present in the first two films. It definitely seems to embrace some more "comic booky" elements and feels a little sillier, and basically boils down to a typical supervillain revenge story. The lack of any perspective from Gotham citizens really, really hurts the idea of Bane's plan ever working. I'd argue that the performances from the actors, (despite some weird but memorable choices from Hardy for the voice to a useless and overdone Matthew Modine performance)are better than some have stated. Pretty much all the main actors give it their all. The final act seems very condensed and rushed, and I might be the first to say this, but some (not all) of the major shot compositions just don't look great, particularly the final battle. It's not that all of them were like that, there are definitely some mesmerizing shots, but they are paired with some not so amazing ones, and it feels really inconsistent, which is where people's issues with the editing & music come in. Some things just feel jammed together. Nolan may have made the film he wanted to make, but there was no passion this time. It's what you do when WB lets you make INCEPTION however you want. You do one for them if they do one for you. And while he definitely could have done worse, Nolan definitely did not knock it out of the park like he has with his last few films.

Best post of the entire thread. I walked out of the theater after BB and TDK feeling like I had just watched great movies, masterpieces even. TDKR just felt like another superhero film

 

[Frodo]

I think they just tried to do too many things at once and went a bit overboard. As with many 3rd films , they tried to please diehard fans, add a bunch of new characters and ideas which take away from the lead characters, Tried to go bigger and better with fx and setpieces, relying heavily on the first one, while at the same time tryng to wrap everything up in a little bow. To be fair, I think Nolan pulls it off better than most directors have , but I still get that feeling of what could have been if they just did x,y,z etc.

That said, its a solid conclusion even with its flaws. There are alot of memorabe moments such as The Batman/Bane fight, Alfred's intervention with Bruce , and the cutting off of Gotham. At the same time though there alot of moments such as Blake knowing Bruce is Batman, the talia and Bane stuff, and alot of exposition for things we never see or get a sense of.

 

[pisker]

Im gunna be flat out. I am a die hard fan of this movie. **** i even liked it better than TDK. its actually my favorite movie. But it does have its flaws. but imo it is such a great movie, that you can look past those and enjoy it for what it actually is. No need to sit around and fight about it let haters hate

 

[J.Howlett]

I'd like a detail list of the ideas that this film presents that "don't go anywhere". A select few keep saying it but I'd really like to know. Full on detail listed how Nolan cluster****ed this film....

...and /film.com's list of 15 don't count because I've read the fifteen and fourteen of them are straight hogwash, fanboy nitpicks. Might as well apply that list to every film.

 

[Dark Knight]

I'd like a detail list of the ideas that this film presents that "don't go anywhere". A select few keep saying it but I'd really like to know. Full on detail listed how Nolan cluster****ed this film....

...and /film.com's list of 15 don't count because I've read the fifteen and fourteen of them are straight hogwash, fanboy nitpicks. Might as well apply that list to every film.

Exactly! Check on NolanFans.com cover page and see the rebuttal to the ifilms 15 ridiculous criticisms.