It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's the Superman Costume Thread! - Part 1

[Jobling]

I fully understand your emotional attachment to the classic suit.But i do think that the emotional attachment blinds fans to certain facts about the classic suit-like the fact it does silly in live action to the current gen.Your emotional attachment to the classic will NEVER allow you to see it but for someone like me-its freaking obvious.So it had to be tweaked to get newer fans. Im sorry but it was one of the necessary sacrifices to make Superman seem less oldfashoned and cool to newer fans.You and the older fans need to prepare yourselves for the influx of new fans that next year will bring because they are going to share the same opinion on the classic and will bash it with no remorse.Im sorry but this will happen and is the future of Superman fandom.


This is Thors classic costume.

We did not get Thors classic costume.What we got was JMS rebooted Thor outfit without the helmet by the way.
Cap looked less awesome in avengers compared to TFA. And i wouldnt call it faithful since it didnt faithfully translate the most controversial part of the helmet-the wings.
Truth be told Marvel isnt has faithful in their movies as many say.They change stuff because they are aware certain things just dont look cool in live action


Smallville got me interested in the character. Fleschier cartoons got me hooked.picked up a few superman stories here and there,watched the movies but only came to stay with the new 52.

SOOOO Trueee

 

[StarvingArtist]

Thanks for not jumping down my throat.Most Older fans I talk to on this forums are not nice when people dont share their expected views on the classic suit or Donner.
Oh and Im just entering my twenties by the way.

No problem. As a side note, it does kind of emphasizes my point though doesn't it? That long time fans, the kind of fans who love Superman enough to come onto a discussion board and talk about it, will probably react harshly and negatively when told they have to adjust their view because a young adult who just became a fan smugly says that they represent the future of Superman fandom. I'm not making excuses for the older guys, but that's why they do it. Doesn't change that they're being immature *******s.


ANYWAY, yeah responding to your post...Hah, I have so many thoughts about it I'm having a hard time separating them all so I'll start by waxing laconic: I'm about 10 years older then you, I think you're wrong. Well, mostly wrong.

In order to really get a full understanding of the argument you're making though, a couple of other questions: what exactly draws you to Superman? Are there other aspects of Superman that you think should be changed in order to bring in new fans? What is it that you think new fans are looking for?

 

[Jobling]

No problem. As a side note, it does kind of emphasizes my point though doesn't it? That long time fans, the kind of fans who love Superman enough to come onto a discussion board and talk about it, will probably react harshly and negatively when told they have to adjust their view because a young adult who just became a fan smugly says they are the future of Superman fandom. I'm not making excuses for them but that's why they do it. Doesn't change that they're being immature *******s.


ANYWAY, yeah responding to your post...Hah, I have so many thoughts about it I'm having a hard time separating them all so I'll start by waxing laconic: I'm about 10 years older then you, I think you're wrong. Well, mostly wrong.

In order to really get a full understanding of the argument you're making though, a couple of other questions: what exactly draws you to Superman? Are there other aspects of Superman that you think should be changed in order to bring in new fans? What is it that you think new fans are looking for?

Why you are asking the same thing over and over again when people have a diferent idea of the suit( aspects of Superman that you think should be changed in order to bring in new fans),I think you are the typical classic fan that don´t respect the opinion of another person, He is talking about the suit.... New 52 Superman has the same Values the same education the same courage,he is basically the same person,The only thing is the suit and in my opinion the MOS suit is better that the New 52 but I can live with that,and yes I loved the donner films the classic comics butt is time to move on,superman needs more fans,need the next film to be a sucess,for me That is more important,I´m fan but a Realistic Fan... ohh the new fans are looking for a muchh cooler updated suit(Mos suit),and badass superman!

 

[Super Kal]

i think the sad part is that some Superman fans think the only reason Superman doesn't do well is simply because of his suit...

 

[StarvingArtist]

Why you are asking the same thing over and over again when people have a diferent idea of the suit( aspects of Superman that you think should be changed in order to bring in new fans),I think you are the typical classic fan that don´t respect the opinion of another person, He is talking about the suit.... New 52 Superman has the same Values the same education the same courage,he is basically the same person,The only thing is the suit and in my opinion the MOS suit is better that the New 52 but I can live with that,and yes I loved the donner films the classic comics butt is time to move on,superman needs more fans,need the next film to be a sucess,for me That is more important,I´m fan but a Realistic Fan... ohh the new fans are looking for a muchh cooler updated suit(Mos suit),and badass superman!

LOL!!!!!! Jobling your comedy is so much funnier when I'm ****-faced, and man am I ****faced right now. Awesome, don't ever leave these forums, please. I'll be so sad if you ever get banned.

i think the sad part is that some Superman fans think the only reason Superman doesn't do well is simply because of his suit...

That's kind of where I'm coming from. For years people have had all kinds of issues with Superman, the suit of which I think if the least of it. I'm curious to know more about Zionite's opinion because I just find it fascinating how people form their appreciation of the character. This change in Superman is just the start of it. Makes me wonder just how much he'll change in the years to come in order to appeal to wider audiences.

 

[Black Dynamite]

LOL!!!!!! Jobling your comedy is so much funnier when I'm ****-faced. Awesome man, don't ever leave these forums, please. I'll be so sad if you ever get banned.



That's kind of where I'm coming from. For years people have had all kinds of issues with Superman, the suit of which I think if the least of it. I'm curious to know more about Zionite's opinion because I just find it fascinating how people form their appreciation of the character. This change in Superman is just the start of it. Makes me wonder just how much he'll change in the years to come in order to appeal to wider audiences.

So because superman doesn't have his trunks anymore means that he will be completely different in the future. Batman didn't have his trunks in Batman 89 and he is still basically the same character 23 years later.

 

[StarvingArtist]

So because superman doesn't have his trunks anymore means that he will be completely different in the future. Batman didn't have his trunks in Batman 89 and he is still basically the same character 23 years later.

Nope. Not what I'm saying.

And you can't compare Batman to Superman. If you really want to know why then I'll for the umpteenth time get int it but for now I'm too lazy and involved in the middle of a game of Counter Strike to spell it out.

 

[Black Dynamite]

Nope. Not what I'm saying.

And you can't compare Batman to Superman. If you really want to know why then I'll for the umpteenth time get int it but for now I'm too lazy and involved in the middle of a game of Counter Strime to spell it out.

Then what are you saying. you stated that " This change in Superman is just the start of it. Makes me wonder just how much he'll change in the years to come in order to appeal to wider audiences." I assume you referring to the change in the trunks. Do you only mean cosmetic changes or character changes as well. Also you can compare batman to superman when comes to their costumes.

 

[StarvingArtist]

Then what are you saying. you stated that " This change in Superman is just the start of it. Makes me wonder just how much he'll change in the years to come in order to appeal to wider audiences." I assume you referring to the change in the trunks. Do you only mean cosmetic changes or character changes as well. Also you can compare batman to superman when comes to their costumes.

I mean all changes.

Unlike previous changes, these new ones are entangled in legal red tape, so they're likely going to be around for a long while. New fans will become accustomed to them. Old fans will have to live with them. If a precedent like that proves successful, then the business model will change in such a way that permits continuous change to the character in order to appeal to as wide an audience as possible. Put simply, the process of trademark dilution has begun. The old formula, for whatever reason wasn't working like they wanted, the lawsuit came and ****ed up the classic costume anyway, so now they are experimenting with new things. Which means in 20 years, Superman may end up being some ******* wearing army fatigues walking around with an AK-47. (I'm not being serious.... but who knows right?) They're already market testing suits like that repulsive, black, super powered suit bull **** he wears when he goes back to Krypton.

As for Superman vs Batman suit-wise. No. Just no. Here's why: you have more leeway with batman. Why? Because batman has reason to his suit. There's a reason why he wears it. Based on that, you have a metric on which to measure the coolness factor of the suit. That's why bat nipples are ****ing stupid. They make no sense. Why the hell would batman put nipples on a suit that's supposed to purely serve a function? Batman is the easiest superhero to adapt for modern, sophisticated audiences because of this. All you have to do is fall back on the foundation of why he wears a suit in the first place and you have a ton more elbow room with making changes.

Oops... then there's superman. Poor bastard wears a blue leotard why? Because he just does. On wait, no he wears it because it's some kind of alien uniform. Apparently they wear capes and underwear on the outside of their pants on krypton. Yeah... convincing. You see the problem? Which is why either you just like Superman's costume, or you don't. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't. So now DC is playing up the alien suit angle to the nth degree. Because audiences and readers can't accept that he just wears what he wears because he's a freakin superhero anymore. Supes needs a reason to wear it. And it's being changed accordingly.

EDIT: I should note that I'm not even trying to make a case for the classic suit. I'm not opposed to change. I'm opposed to crappy, apologetic, shock value change.

 

[Black Dynamite]

I mean all changes.

Unlike previous changes, these new ones are entangled in legal red tape, so they're likely going to be around for a long while. New fans will become accustomed to them. Old fans will have to live with them. If a precedent like that proves successful, then the business model will change in such a way that permits continuous change to the character in order to appeal to as wide an audience as possible. Put simply, the process of trademark dilution has begun. The old formula, for whatever reason wasn't working like they wanted, the lawsuit came and ****ed up the classic costume anyway, so now they are experimenting with new things. Which means in 20 years, Superman may end up being some ******* wearing army fatigues walking around with an AK-47. (I'm not being serious.... but who knows right?) They're already market testing suits like that repulsive, black, super powered suit bull **** he wears when he goes back to Krypton.

As for Superman vs Batman suit-wise. No. Just no. Here's why: you have more leeway with batman. Why? Because batman has reason to his suit. There's a reason why he wears it. Based on that, you have a metric on which to measure the coolness factor of the suit. That's why bat nipples are ****ing stupid. They make no sense. Why the hell would batman put nipples on a suit that's supposed to purely serve a function? Batman is the easiest superhero to adapt for modern, sophisticated audiences because of this. All you have to do is fall back on the foundation of why he wears a suit in the first place and you have a ton more elbow room with making changes.

Oops... then there's superman. Poor bastard wears a blue leotard why? Because he just does. On wait, no he wears it because it's some kind of alien uniform. Apparently they wear capes and underwear on the outside of their pants on krypton. Yeah... convincing. You see the problem? Which is why either you just like Superman's costume, or you don't. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't. So now DC is playing up the alien suit angle to the nth degree. Because audiences and readers can't accept that he just wears what he wears because he's a freakin superhero anymore. Supes needs a reason to wear it. And it's being changed accordingly.

Don't comic books change things all the time? The lawsuit hasn't set some new precedent in comic books altering their characters.

From my understanding the reason superman wears his classic costume is because his earth mom made it for him. That has been the reason for awhile and has been demonstrated in the comics, movies and tv shows.

 

[StarvingArtist]

Don't comic books change things all the time? The lawsuit hasn't set some new precedent in comic books altering their characters.

From my understanding the reason superman wears his classic costume is because his earth mom made it for him. That has been the reason for awhile and has been demonstrated in the comics, movies and tv shows.

No, comics don't change things all the time. It's a business like anything else. Change things too much, you piss off the base, you lose readers, you lose money.

And are you just arguing with me to argue without knowing whats been going on? Yes the lawsuit has set a new precedent. Read.

It's basically cut certain quantifiable traits of the Superman property in half. Depicting Superman in the classic suit is more trouble then it's worth given the legal battle, so they're moving forward with a new strategy of change to the property.

And fine, you want to pull the "Ma Kent" made it argument? I'll elaborate/retort. The reasoning behind superman's suit has a spectrum to it with it being a creation of ma kent on one end.... the suit being wholly kryptonian on the other. Neither of which has stood the test of time as definitive until apparently now with the new52 reboot. The suit is kryptonian battle armor. Done and done.

 

[Black Dynamite]

No, comics don't change things all the time. It's a business like anything else. Change things too much, you piss off the base, you lose readers, you lose money.

And are you just arguing with me to argue without knowing whats been going on? Yes the lawsuit has set a new precedent. Read.

It's basically cut certain quantifiable traits of the Superman property in half. Depicting Superman in the classic suit is more trouble then it's worth given the legal battle, so they're moving forward with a new strategy of change to the property.

And fine, you want to pull the "Ma Kent" made it argument? I'll elaborate/retort. The reasoning behind superman's suit has a spectrum to it with it being a creation of ma kent on one end.... the suit being wholly kryptonian on the other. Neither of which has stood the test of time as definitive until apparently now with the new52 reboot. The suit is kryptonian battle armor. Done and done.

DC has changed their universe multiple times the most recent the new 52. They have tried to change the superman suit prior to the lawsuit in the comics and the failed movies. DC recently won the lawsuit between the heirs.

 

[Zionite1]

ANYWAY, yeah responding to your post...Hah, I have so many thoughts about it I'm having a hard time separating them all so I'll start by waxing laconic: I'm about 10 years older then you, I think you're wrong. Well, mostly wrong.

In order to really get a full understanding of the argument you're making though, a couple of other questions: what exactly draws you to Superman? Are there other aspects of Superman that you think should be changed in order to bring in new fans? What is it that you think new fans are looking for?

Well they are lot of things that attaract me about Supes so I cant really say.But most of all is his heart.I also like the fact he is basicallly a scifi Hercules/samson which is a pretty cool.But DC likes to potray him as a scifi jesus christ which makes him seem tooo preaachy to new fans.Luckily Morrison is chnging that in Action comics.I think the sci fi Hercules aspect of Supes should really be played up even further in any possible way.

I think new fans wld apprecaite a Superman with flaws.Who makes mistakes.
I also think that Supes sorely needed to loose the boyscout attitude.Im really enjoying the badass superman morrison potrays,although id likea bit maturity.

I think realism and groundedness is very important in the superman mythos.There are times that Supermans stories get to feel so out there they feel childish and silly.Now Im not saying that the Superman mythos should shy away from big sci fi concepts but that it should feel real world.Look at Earth one for example.

The Superman mythos also needs to loose all silliness.For example concepts like Bizarro,bottled cities,glasses disguises etc.On the subject of the glasses i Tjink its high time a proper explantion is laid on ground-every explantion given is too stupid.

I also think that the superman mythos needs to modernise certain characters.For example the old Jimmy is a bit silly for a new fan.However in earth one Jimmys character was effectively modernised.Same with Clarks nerd persona-In the old days nerd clark was potrayedasa bumbling fool-but thats a 1940s nerd.Earth one instead potrays him as a modern day nerd quoting LOTR and STARWARS.

I Think supermans supporting cast needs to really be rehauled-quite frankly they can be very boring.You dont find this problem with batman.

Speaking of boring.lets talk about Clarks civilain life.So boring.Why cant it be exciting?I mean there is so much potential there!I throughly enjoyed the west africa birthright scene showing the adventurous nature of clarks journalistic life to the fullest.That should be Clarks civilain life.he should be interesting in and out of costume.I disliked the animated series becsue of how boring clark was out of costume

Another thing that needs to change in writing superman is retreading the same stuff.There is just so much random alien invasion one can take.


.

 

[kal-el1990]

Dont know if anyone has been reading Superman Beyond but in the latest one there is a page or tw where Clark is wearing a suit that is very VERY similar to Jor-Els in MOS.

Looks like MOS is starting to influence the comics already!

 

[kal-elrebooted]

Dont know if anyone has been reading Superman Beyond but in the latest one there is a page or tw where Clark is wearing a suit that is very VERY similar to Jor-Els in MOS.

Looks like MOS is starting to influence the comics already!

I want to see it

 

[747]

If people doesn't like Superman, it's their loss!

 

[kal-el1990]

I want to see it

I'm not with my ipad right now but ill post a pic later when I get home.

It's the same design just different colours.

 

[SpideyFan866]

I fully understand your emotional attachment to the classic suit.But i do think that the emotional attachment blinds fans to certain facts about the classic suit-like the fact it does silly in live action to the current gen.Your emotional attachment to the classic will NEVER allow you to see it but for someone like me-its freaking obvious.So it had to be tweaked to get newer fans. Im sorry but it was one of the necessary sacrifices to make Superman seem less oldfashoned and cool to newer fans.You and the older fans need to prepare yourselves for the influx of new fans that next year will bring because they are going to share the same opinion on the classic and will bash it with no remorse.Im sorry but this will happen and is the future of Superman fandom.


This is Thors classic costume.

We did not get Thors classic costume.What we got was JMS rebooted Thor outfit without the helmet by the way.
Cap looked less awesome in avengers compared to TFA. And i wouldnt call it faithful since it didnt faithfully translate the most controversial part of the helmet-the wings.
Truth be told Marvel isnt has faithful in their movies as many say.They change stuff because they are aware certain things just dont look cool in live action

What we got was more of a mix between the classic and the JMS version. This even more so in the case of his costume in the Avengers which, more or less, was a updated version of the classic (sans helmet) with minimal details of the JMS costume.

But I see your point and agree fully.

 

[Krumm]

I was out for Halloween last night and saw quite a few Supermen (myself included) and practically no Batmen. Suck it, DK.

 

[Jobling]

The funny thing is that you and more 2 guys are all alone in this issue lolol it´s just like a movie with the name---> StarvingArtist against the world!!Chill outt bro,you have to embrace the future.... lolololl

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Well they are lot of things that attaract me about Supes so I cant really say.But most of all is his heart.I also like the fact he is basicallly a scifi Hercules/samson which is a pretty cool.But DC likes to potray him as a scifi jesus christ which makes him seem tooo preaachy to new fans.Luckily Morrison is chnging that in Action comics.I think the sci fi Hercules aspect of Supes should really be played up even further in any possible way.

I think new fans wld apprecaite a Superman with flaws.Who makes mistakes.
I also think that Supes sorely needed to loose the boyscout attitude.Im really enjoying the badass superman morrison potrays,although id likea bit maturity.

I think realism and groundedness is very important in the superman mythos.There are times that Supermans stories get to feel so out there they feel childish and silly.Now Im not saying that the Superman mythos should shy away from big sci fi concepts but that it should feel real world.Look at Earth one for example.

The Superman mythos also needs to loose all silliness.For example concepts like Bizarro,bottled cities,glasses disguises etc.On the subject of the glasses i Tjink its high time a proper explantion is laid on ground-every explantion given is too stupid.

I also think that the superman mythos needs to modernise certain characters.For example the old Jimmy is a bit silly for a new fan.However in earth one Jimmys character was effectively modernised.Same with Clarks nerd persona-In the old days nerd clark was potrayedasa bumbling fool-but thats a 1940s nerd.Earth one instead potrays him as a modern day nerd quoting LOTR and STARWARS.

I Think supermans supporting cast needs to really be rehauled-quite frankly they can be very boring.You dont find this problem with batman.

Speaking of boring.lets talk about Clarks civilain life.So boring.Why cant it be exciting?I mean there is so much potential there!I throughly enjoyed the west africa birthright scene showing the adventurous nature of clarks journalistic life to the fullest.That should be Clarks civilain life.he should be interesting in and out of costume.I disliked the animated series becsue of how boring clark was out of costume

Another thing that needs to change in writing superman is retreading the same stuff.There is just so much random alien invasion one can take.


.

Hopefully now, this is where SA can now see the divergence amongst "younger" fans. Because despite being of the same age, I happen to disagree with a lot of what you said here.

I happen to think Earth One is, put kindly, below average. It doesn't explore one iota why Clark wants and thinks he should be Superman. He just sort of does it because his dad said "it'd be cool". He just sort of falls into it after Tyrell's invasion.

I abhor Straczynski's "Jim" Olsen. There is modernisation and there is bastardisation. I consider "Jim" the latter. Grant Morrison and the New 52's is much better as a character, he's Clark's (not Superman's) best friend and shares all of Clark's nerdy quirky interests. Plus he still retains the desire to get the best out of his work.

As for losing the "silliness" I only partially agree. Very partially. Bizarro could do with an updating, the Bizarro as seen in All-Star (a huge organism and planet killer that "grows" Bizarro's) is great, but not the kind of thing I could see many writers being able to handle. So I could see him becoming a failed cloning experiment, and a very good story could be produced about how a man who was noble at heart slowly loses his mind as it decays into madness.

The bottle cities should stay. Definitely. As a principle it is more "grounded" than anything else that appears in the Superman mythos. 'Bout to drop some science. Everything you see is mostly empty space, even matter itself, the nucleus makes up over 99.9% of the mass of an atom, but less than 1% of the space. The rest of the atom is empty. It is possible to suggest that Brainiac tech can condense the atom so that a small portion of space is removed from every atom. To put it in perspective, if every single human alive had all the space removed from them, we could all live on a sugar cube. But everything would still weigh the same, explaining the Kandorians weaknesses within the bottle.

If in future stories want to go "grounded" and "out there" at the same time, Grant Morrison is the writer to emulate, with his runs on JLA, All-Star and Action. Not Stracyzinski.

 

[StarvingArtist]

Hopefully now, this is where SA can now see the divergence amongst "younger" fans. Because despite being of the same age, I happen to disagree with a lot of what you said here.

I happen to think Earth One is, put kindly, below average. It doesn't explore one iota why Clark wants and thinks he should be Superman. He just sort of does it because his dad said "it'd be cool". He just sort of falls into it after Tyrell's invasion.

I abhor Straczynski's "Jim" Olsen. There is modernisation and there is bastardisation. I consider "Jim" the latter. Grant Morrison and the New 52's is much better as a character, he's Clark's (not Superman's) best friend and shares all of Clark's nerdy quirky interests. Plus he still retains the desire to get the best out of his work.

As for losing the "silliness" I only partially agree. Very partially. Bizarro could do with an updating, the Bizarro as seen in All-Star (a huge organism and planet killer that "grows" Bizarro's) is great, but not the kind of thing I could see many writers being able to handle. So I could see him becoming a failed cloning experiment, and a very good story could be produced about how a man who was noble at heart slowly loses his mind as it decays into madness.

The bottle cities should stay. Definitely. As a principle it is more "grounded" than anything else that appears in the Superman mythos. 'Bout to drop some science. Everything you see is mostly empty space, even matter itself, the nucleus makes up over 99.9% of the mass of an atom, but less than 1% of the space. The rest of the atom is empty. It is possible to suggest that Brainiac tech can condense the atom so that a small portion of space is removed from every atom. To put it in perspective, if every single human alive had all the space removed from them, we could all live on a sugar cube. But everything would still weigh the same, explaining the Kandorians weaknesses within the bottle.

If in future stories want to go "grounded" and "out there" at the same time, Grant Morrison is the writer to emulate, with his runs on JLA, All-Star and Action. Not Stracyzinski.

You're the man. Zionite, I defer to Mr. Sheperd. Too hungover to write a in depth response of my own right now. Hit you up later.

 

[TheWatcher]

I was out for Halloween last night and saw quite a few Supermen (myself included) and practically no Batmen. Suck it, DK.

To be fair, it's an easier costume to make.

 

[Krumm]

To be fair, it's an easier costume to make.

Shhh.

 

[Jobling]

The funny thing is that you and more 2 guys are all alone in this issue lolol it´s just like a movie with the name---> StarvingArtist against the world!!Chill outt bro,you have to embrace the future.... lolololl

The battle is lost my Friend a long time ago loll, You can continue to grumble whatever you want but you know perfectly well that they do not turn back their decisions, if they turn back any decision about the suit is just to get equal to the suit of the film (MOS) therefore don´t get frustrated and missing so much the panties, because they will not come back lololol cheers mate