James Bond In Skyfall - Part 6

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I don't get when people call Dalton "dull" I just can't see that, he seems very similar to Craig imo, like an older and more experienced version of Craig's interpretation. In my opinion both Dalton and Craig are the most human Bonds. I guess if you like your Bond as a cartoon like character that may seem "dull" but I disagree completely. I specially like how Dalton reacts to things, wether the emotion he is displaying on screen is anger, surprise, scare, etc, it seems very genuine..far better than anything Brosnan was able to display, and eventhough I like GE I think it is grossly overrated by a lot of fans.

-In LTK I speacially like the look Dalton gives to Sharky after some silly comment he does when Bond just dropped the corrupt cop to the shark with the 2 million briefcase..and of course the delivery of Dalton moments earlier when he drops said corrupt cop to the shark.
-The reaction Bond has when he sees Felix Leiter maimed at his place.

-In TLD when his collegue Saunders is killed in the fair, Dalton stare is just nuts.

Just to name a few...I think the only other Bond actor that matches that is Craig, but that is how I like my Bond, I really don't care about Brosnan and his smugness..not to sound ranty because I actually enjoy Brosnan movies, they are very entertaining.
 
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GE overrated ? It proved Bond's relevancy in a post Cold War world and featured arguably one of his greatest enemies. I think it absolutely deserves its recognition.
 
I don't get when people call Dalton "dull" I just can't see that, he seems very similar to Craig imo, like an older and more experienced version of Craig's interpretation. In my opinion both Dalton and Craig are the most human Bonds. I guess if you like your Bond as a cartoon like character that may seem "dull" but I disagree completely. I specially like how Dalton reacts to things, wether the emotion he is displaying on screen is anger, surprise, scare, etc, it seems very genuine..far better than anything Brosnan was able to display, and eventhough I like GE I think it is grossly overrated by a lot of fans.

-In LTK I speacially like the look Dalton gives to Sharky after some silly comment he does when Bond just dropped the corrupt cop to the shark with the 2 million briefcase..and of course the delivery of Dalton moments earlier when he drops said corrupt cop to the shark.
-The reaction Bond has when he sees Felix Leiter maimed at his place.

-In TLD when his collegue Saunders is killed in the fair, Dalton stare is just nuts.

Just to name a few...I think the only other Bond actor that matches that is Craig, but that is how I like my Bond, I really don't care about Brosnan and his smugness..not to sound ranty because I actually enjoy Brosnan movies, they are very entertaining.

Different tastes. I get Dalton tried to play Bond seriously. I think fans who grew up with him or always wanted a straight-faced more Fleming-esque Bond gave him a pass or latched onto him because of that. But Craig does what Dalton attempted, IMO. Craig bridges Fleming's Bond with EON's for the most part and it works. Dalton in comparison tried to prove he was a real actor in the role and it came off as forced and unbelievable to me. He growled or shouted all his lines, he didn't have a trace of humor or fun in the role (which Craig actually does have) and didn't seem believable to me. He just came off stiff.

Even Brosnan, in comparison, had a few scenes where I thought he tapped into the anger or ugliness under the surface that Dalton tried to display at all cylinders all the time when he executes that guy in TND or kills 006 or Sophie Marceau. I understand people liking a more serious, literary-inspired Bond, but I never bought Dalton as that. With Daniel Craig, I do.
 
I don't get when people call Dalton "dull" I just can't see that, he seems very similar to Craig imo, like an older and more experienced version of Craig's interpretation. In my opinion both Dalton and Craig are the most human Bonds. I guess if you like your Bond as a cartoon like character that may seem "dull" but I disagree completely. I specially like how Dalton reacts to things, wether the emotion he is displaying on screen is anger, surprise, scare, etc, it seems very genuine..far better than anything Brosnan was able to display, and eventhough I like GE I think it is grossly overrated by a lot of fans.

-In LTK I speacially like the look Dalton gives to Sharky after some silly comment he does when Bond just dropped the corrupt cop to the shark with the 2 million briefcase..and of course the delivery of Dalton moments earlier when he drops said corrupt cop to the shark.
-The reaction Bond has when he sees Felix Leiter maimed at his place.

-In TLD when his collegue Saunders is killed in the fair, Dalton stare is just nuts.

Just to name a few...I think the only other Bond actor that matches that is Craig, but that is how I like my Bond, I really don't care about Brosnan and his smugness..not to sound ranty because I actually enjoy Brosnan movies, they are very entertaining.

Different tastes. I get Dalton tried to play Bond seriously. I think fans who grew up with him or always wanted a straight-faced more Fleming-esque Bond gave him a pass or latched onto him because of that. But Craig does what Dalton attempted, IMO. Craig bridges Fleming's Bond with EON's for the most part and it works. Dalton in comparison tried to prove he was a real actor in the role and it came off as forced and unbelievable to me. He growled or shouted all his lines, he didn't have a trace of humor or fun in the role (which Craig actually does have) and didn't seem believable to me. He just came off stiff.

Even Brosnan, in comparison, had a few scenes where I thought he tapped into the anger or ugliness under the surface that Dalton tried to display at all cylinders all the time when he executes that guy in TND or kills 006 or Sophie Marceau. I understand people liking a more serious, literary-inspired Bond, but I never bought Dalton as that. With Daniel Craig, I do.
 
I still love Brosnan as bond, though Craig is my favorite.

I think both are great at playing bond, but Dan got the better scripts, except for Goldeneye. (..and Yes, I liked QoS).
 
Brosnan was a good Bond in that it was his charm more so than his acting that kept the movies afloat. Bond movies will always make money and the idea of questioning Bond's relevance in the world is obtuse. So intelligence gathering, national/international security is a past time contained to just the cold war?? I don't think so. Brosnan was a popular actor and this was made clear by various interviews of the general public's impression of his casting. He had the typical "look" that people came to associate with Bond.

However, through no real fault of his own, Brosnan's movies declined with every subsequent release IMO. His acting didn't particularly help either, which I suppose doesn't count for much because he wasn't really given strong material to work with anyway. The Brosnan era spent too much time box-ticking typical, past time cliches and often delved into self parody just to make the audience feel comfortable and remind them that we're watching a Bond movie.

Brosnan not returning is something he needs to get over and accept. It's not like he initially had plans to come back anyway because he didn't even want to do a 5th initially. However, if I were Brosnan I would be pissed at the fact that the level of care, detail and the caliber of the scripts, actors, production and the high level of effort going into these movies is something the producers just felt they didn't need to do with him in the role. That can be seen as a somewhat huge slap to the face but what ever. Craig is here, Craig is a far superior Bond and Craig is bringing back a Bond that can be taken seriously as opposed to the juvenile nonsense of the Brosnan era.

Great post. I agree. Brosnan started off with a bang but each of his films got more an more generic and became Americanized action films. It was never more apparent than with Die Another Day. GoldenEye was the one truly great film he did. TWINE has its moments but its not as good. Elektra King as an interesting character but Christmas Jones has to be one of the weakest Bond girls ever.

With the material Brosnan was given later his Bond came off a little smug. Another issue I had was that his Bond could be too much of a physical superman in later films. He got hurt but some of those physical stunts looked outlandish even for Bond. I enjoy the more physically toned down work of the Graig movies where Bond is clearly a resourceful man but still a man.

Bosnan could be more of a composite Bond. I suppose thats one reason he was so successful...his films had something for everyone. A bit of Connery, a bit of Moore, and a dash of Dalton from time to time. But his strength could also be his weakness. He never quite had as much of Connery's cool, Moore's charm, or Dalton's darkness so there were times when he didn't leave his own distinct stamp on the role the way others did love them or hate them. People might not like Moore or Dalton but their takes where distinctly theirs. In the short term people loved The Bros but in the long term his run may not have left the impression with some that Connery and Moores did because they each played it their own unique way.

I just wish Brosnan had really been given a stronger film with more character moments to work with because he had it in him IMO. EON just played it too safe in that department. Its interesting that Brosnan was also the one that got the least Fleming material to work with. Bits an pieces of the books made their way into his films as inspiration but not nearly as much as the others.


Though Dalton never had the classic film, he is still my favorite Bond. His portrayal just in my opinion falls closer in line with Fleming's man, and he looked the most similar too.

GE as originally written could have been great. From what I've heard they lightened the tone considerably when Bros came on board.

As much as I loved Brosnan as Bond I always enjoyed Dalton a little bit more. His more grounded human take on the character was refreshing. Moore was best at playing the gentleman spy but Dalton was so cold and sharp that he was arguably one of the best when it came to portraying Bond the would be assassin. When he told General Pushkin to get down on his knees it really seemed like Bond was going to execute him. Bond usually doesn't take pleasure in killing but will do it when necessary. Dalton seemed like the most natural at that.


I don't get when people call Dalton "dull" I just can't see that, he seems very similar to Craig imo, like an older and more experienced version of Craig's interpretation. In my opinion both Dalton and Craig are the most human Bonds. I guess if you like your Bond as a cartoon like character that may seem "dull" but I disagree completely. I specially like how Dalton reacts to things, wether the emotion he is displaying on screen is anger, surprise, scare, etc, it seems very genuine..far better than anything Brosnan was able to display, and eventhough I like GE I think it is grossly overrated by a lot of fans.

-In LTK I speacially like the look Dalton gives to Sharky after some silly comment he does when Bond just dropped the corrupt cop to the shark with the 2 million briefcase..and of course the delivery of Dalton moments earlier when he drops said corrupt cop to the shark.
-The reaction Bond has when he sees Felix Leiter maimed at his place.

-In TLD when his collegue Saunders is killed in the fair, Dalton stare is just nuts.

Just to name a few...I think the only other Bond actor that matches that is Craig, but that is how I like my Bond, I really don't care about Brosnan and his smugness..not to sound ranty because I actually enjoy Brosnan movies, they are very entertaining.

If anything Dalton was just 20 years too soon. He paved the way for some of the things Craig is doing now. Craig just got a better movie and more of a character arc to work with. I'd love to hear their thoughts on each other.

Dalton had his own kind of dark humor that worked for him. That look he gives Koskov when he's spinning his BS post defection story at the safehouse in The Living Daylights is hilarious. Great acting. He tells you with a look that he thinks Koskov is full of sh**.

Dalton was never the problem with his films it was the films themselves. They weren't bad. In fact I though they were solid Bond films but they weren't spectacular either. John Glen was a serviceable workman but he didn't give his films that bigger scope. Part of that was budget. When GoldenEye rolled around you could tell they spent a lot more money on it.

I think TLD had some pretty weak villains in Whitaker and Koskov. Koskov was great comic relief but he never seemed threatening. Whitaker was like a big kid. Necros was a cool henchman though. Sanchez was a villain more on Dalton's Bond's level. He was ruthless and their showdown at the end of LTK was pretty nasty. Even Brosnan got that one great rival in 006. Dalton never got his TSWLM or GoldenEye...that one film that was perfect and one of the best. GoldenEye could have been that for him if he hadn't stepped down in 94.

There are some things in the finished movie that Brosnan was clearly better at (romancing the ladies, the sly charm) but The darker parts of that story had Dalton written all over them. He would have played Bonds anger over Alec Trevelyan's betrayal to the hilt. Bonds "Its what keeps me alive" line sounded tailor made for Dalton.

Parts of the films questions about Bonds relevance in a post cold war world may have worked better with Dalton continuing on. Dench's M calling him a relic would have been strong although her line about him being a sexist misogynist worked better with Brosnan since he was so good at the womanizing elements.

Dalton's Bond films weren't as good as Brosnan's best (GoldenEye) but they were miles above Brosnan's worst (DAD).
 
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Dalton was never the problem with his films it was the films themselves. They weren't bad. In fact I though they were solid Bond films but they weren't spectacular either. John Glen was a serviceable workman but he didn't give his films that bigger scope. Part of that was budget. When GoldenEye rolled around you could tell they spent a lot more money on it. Dalton never got his TSWLM or GoldenEye...that one film that was perfect and one of the best. GoldenEye could have been that for him if he hadn't stepped down in 94.

I think "The Living Daylights" was pretty good.
 
I actually think Brosnan works better in the darker moments of GE (or any of them that were sprinkled in his tenure) because he doesn't wear his bitterness or anger on his sleeve like DAlton did. He buries it deep down inside. So, when it comes out in quiet moments like when he confronts Trevelyan or the "keep me alive" bit or later when he kills 006 or the hitman in TND, it's more surprising to see it. It's kind of disturbing that underneath the joking superhero is something dark and violent.

I also think if Dalton was in GE, 006 would have been a mentor played by Hopkins. Him being instead a double for Bond with Sean Bean is part of why that movies works so well.
 
I actually think Brosnan works better in the darker moments of GE (or any of them that were sprinkled in his tenure) because he doesn't wear his bitterness or anger on his sleeve like DAlton did. He buries it deep down inside. So, when it comes out in quiet moments like when he confronts Trevelyan or the "keep me alive" bit or later when he kills 006 or the hitman in TND, it's more surprising to see it. It's kind of disturbing that underneath the joking superhero is something dark and violent.

That doesn't sound like a plausible observation at all. I think you are twisting events around to fit what you desperately want to say. When someone has good reason to be genuinely angry about something serious, it is going to come out, that's just part of being a normal human being.
It's a method of communication to the person who is deeply wronging them in a serious way, ie 'I know what you are doing, you won't get away with it, one day I'm gonna expose you and make you pay, and decent people will know what you are guilty of.'
 
I think "The Living Daylights" was pretty good.

It was definitly a good film but not a great one. It could have been with some work. Its certainly not a bad film by any means.

I liked that it got back to a more grounded latter day cold war espionage story.


I actually think Brosnan works better in the darker moments of GE (or any of them that were sprinkled in his tenure) because he doesn't wear his bitterness or anger on his sleeve like DAlton did. He buries it deep down inside. So, when it comes out in quiet moments like when he confronts Trevelyan or the "keep me alive" bit or later when he kills 006 or the hitman in TND, it's more surprising to see it. It's kind of disturbing that underneath the joking superhero is something dark and violent.

I also think if Dalton was in GE, 006 would have been a mentor played by Hopkins. Him being instead a double for Bond with Sean Bean is part of why that movies works so well.

The problem is when Brosnan did go "dark" it doesn't seem as credible. Thats true about Bonds playboy image being more of a facade to cover what he REALLY has going on inside though. If Dalton was in the scene in TND where Bond kills Paris Carvers killer his line delivery in response would have been icy. There's a difference between cold and detached and bitter. He played the element of being a professional who killed because it was his job better. Even when he killed someone when it wasn't personal there wasn't bitterness. He was angry when he killed Sanchez but he was supposed to be. When he killed Whitaker it was as a professional doing HIS job.

If Dalton had done GoldenEye and if they had kept Bean it still could have worked. He made quite the rival for the much older Harrison Ford in Patriot Games. It would have been interesting to see two really good dramatic actors playing off each other and playing Beans arrogance off Dalton's seriousness. Bean could have just played it a little older...which he was pretty much already doing anyway considering Trevelyan's backstory. He's actually younger than Brosnan.
 
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It was definitly a good film but not a great one. It could have been with some work. Its certainly not a bad film by any means.

I liked that it got back to a more grounded latter day cold war espionage story.

I liked the globetrotting too. It had all the trappings of a Roger Moore film(because EON was still expecting Moore) and the 80's cold war intrigue.

Parts did seem like a tv movie on the BBC dealing with spys in the cold war. Maybe it was the filming style.


"License to Kill" was just riding on the 80's revenge action movies at the time. We even had a Columbian drug dealer.
 
I liked the globetrotting too. It had all the trappings of a Roger Moore film(because EON was still expecting Moore) and the 80's cold war intrigue.

Parts did seem like a tv movie on the BBC dealing with spys in the cold war. Maybe it was the filming style.

Thats true about Moore. You can even see elements of it in the film. Thank god they cut that awful magic carpet scene. That was pure Moore and it wouldn't have suited Dalton at all. I also like TLD's story.

Glens style works well enough for that film. John Glen's style was more of back to basics stripped down directing compared to what we'd seen out of the Bond movies of the 70's. It worked well for For Your Eyes Only (because IMO they needed to pull it back a little) but as the decade progressed it was looking a little old hat. The budgets didn't seem to be as big as they had been in the past. I think License To Kill could have used a little more money and looked a little more spectacular. Not in the over the top kind of way but the film could have done with a director like a John McTiernan type with a fresher eye and larger more daring stunts.


"License to Kill" was just riding on the 80's revenge action movies at the time. We even had a Columbian drug dealer.

Dalton was the right Bond for that time but the movies didn't catch up with him fast enough. By the time of Daltons tenure 80's action movies like Predator, Robocop, Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, and Batman had rolled around and seemed more fresh and hard hitting and of the time. Even before that it was the Indiana Jones films that had begun setting the action/adventure bar earlier in the decade.

I agree that they tried to catch up with the times with LTK and while its good and I like it its not as good as it could have been. The cinematic competition in the summer of 1989 was fierce. Even by the Brosnan era the films began opening in the fall in the US.
 
I don't hate any of the Bonds, sure I like some more. But they all have their charms and have all made at least one great Bond-movie.
 
That doesn't sound like a plausible observation at all. I think you are twisting events around to fit what you desperately want to say. When someone has good reason to be genuinely angry about something serious, it is going to come out, that's just part of being a normal human being.
It's a method of communication to the person who is deeply wronging them in a serious way, ie 'I know what you are doing, you won't get away with it, one day I'm gonna expose you and make you pay, and decent people will know what you are guilty of.'

I'm not trying to desperately twist anything. Brosnan plays Bond mostly as suave, charismatic and boyishly humorous. But he has moments where that facade breaks and you see a ruthless killer. I preferred that to Bond being there (as in ruthless killer about to blow) at all times during Dalton's tenure. There is a way to make Bond darker and more serious and I think Craig showed that, but I prefer Brosnan's Bond having a self-cultivated image with cracks to Dalton's one note of being perpetually pissed off with a chip on his shoulder.

And you can do Bond as a jokester and tongue-in-cheek hero without moments of darkness. See Roger Moore. And I also prefer Moore to Dalton, but for different reasons.
 
I don't hate any of the Bonds, sure I like some more. But they all have their charms and have all made at least one great Bond-movie.

I don't think there's ever been a bad Bond just some weaker Bond movies. They all have had something that they brought to the role. Even the often overlooked George Lazenby. He didn't ahve the acting experienc of the others but he brought a real humanity to Bond in OHMSS.

Bonds probably had a better track record with actors than a lot of other heroes adapted from written fiction.



I'm not trying to desperately twist anything. Brosnan plays Bond mostly as suave, charismatic and boyishly humorous. But he has moments where that facade breaks and you see a ruthless killer. I preferred that to Bond being there (as in ruthless killer about to blow) at all times during Dalton's tenure. There is a way to make Bond darker and more serious and I think Craig showed that, but I prefer Brosnan's Bond having a self-cultivated image with cracks to Dalton's one note of being perpetually pissed off with a chip on his shoulder.

And you can do Bond as a jokester and tongue-in-cheek hero without moments of darkness. See Roger Moore. And I also prefer Moore to Dalton, but for different reasons.

I don't know if I'd call Dalton's Bond one note or any of that. With Dalton you could always look at him and see there was always something going on in his head.

If anyone could be one note it was Brosnan with the constant smugness although most of that was the poor writing the character got in some of his films.
 
It was definitly a good film but not a great one. It could have been with some work. Its certainly not a bad film by any means.

I liked that it got back to a more grounded latter day cold war espionage story.




The problem is when Brosnan did go "dark" it doesn't seem as credible. Thats true about Bonds playboy image being more of a facade to cover what he REALLY has going on inside though. If Dalton was in the scene in TND where Bond kills Paris Carvers killer his line delivery in response would have been icy. There's a difference between cold and detached and bitter. He played the element of being a professional who killed because it was his job better. Even when he killed someone when it wasn't personal there wasn't bitterness. He was angry when he killed Sanchez but he was supposed to be. When he killed Whitaker it was as a professional doing HIS job.

If Dalton had done GoldenEye and if they had kept Bean it still could have worked. He made quite the rival for the much older Harrison Ford in Patriot Games. It would have been interesting to see two really good dramatic actors playing off each other and playing Beans arrogance off Dalton's seriousness. Bean could have just played it a little older...which he was pretty much already doing anyway considering Trevelyan's backstory. He's actually younger than Brosnan.

Just going to have to disagree. I never believed Dalton. he always seemed like an actor trying really hard to me. Brosnan being a charming guy who is really a bastard underneath? Sure, I bought that. Dalton always tried really hard and never sold me.

Thats true about Moore. You can even see elements of it in the film. Thank god they cut that awful magic carpet scene. That was pure Moore and it wouldn't have suited Dalton at all. I also like TLD's story.

Glens style works well enough for that film. John Glen's style was more of back to basics stripped down directing compared to what we'd seen out of the Bond movies of the 70's. It worked well for For Your Eyes Only (because IMO they needed to pull it back a little) but as the decade progressed it was looking a little old hat. The budgets didn't seem to be as big as they had been in the past. I think License To Kill could have used a little more money and looked a little more spectacular. Not in the over the top kind of way but the film could have done with a director like a John McTiernan type with a fresher eye and larger more daring stunts.




Dalton was the right Bond for that time but the movies didn't catch up with him fast enough. By the time of Daltons tenure 80's action movies like Predator, Robocop, Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, and Batman had rolled around and seemed more fresh and hard hitting and of the time. Even before that it was the Indiana Jones films that had begun setting the action/adventure bar earlier in the decade.

I agree that they tried to catch up with the times with LTK and while its good and I like it its not as good as it could have been. The cinematic competition in the summer of 1989 was fierce. Even by the Brosnan era the films began opening in the fall in the US.

Now this i agree with. The Bond movies of the 1980s were really creaky. Even FYEO, which I like, feels a bit dated for its time. A modern director could have put some blood into Dalton's two entries and made them more exciting. Direction seems very important for modern Bond movies as the Connery/Moore style has gone out of date in terms of direction. Martin Campbell is a really good director for Bond and gave GE and CR a lot of style. But the direction for TWINE and QOS was off and turned interesting ideas into boring films.
 
Dalton was considered as young man to replace Connery In On her majesty's secret
service but turned It down as being too young.After Moonraker Moore almost left the series(he was wooed back for for your eyes only,Octoppussy,and A View to a Kill after
planning to leave but they keep convincing him to stay on,and they even tried to convince him to stay for the Living Daylights but he was determinded to retire as Bond)
and Dalton was top contender to replace him for For Your Eyes Only(the Bond visiting his wife's grave and the appearance of the thinly disguised Blofeld was so a new Bond would be connected to past) but studio felt Moore could be persured to return.Goldeneye
was originally written for Dalton but their were changes made to script from when It still loked like Dalton would return and when Brosnan took over.The villain was originally older and was superior of Bond who appeared to be captured not his frequent partner (They were hoping for Anthony Hopkins In this version of script) and there was more mystery to It and Bond was Investigating the disappearance or killings of scientists

Also to add to that, Moore was gonna leave after For Your Eyes only and EON was briefly searching for a new actor until they heard about Connery's Never Say Never Again. After they heard that, they begged Moore to come back for Octopussy because they felt Moore would be able to compete with Connery at the B.O. (and he did, at the Box office and quality-wise, as Octopussy is better than NSNA, but both are pretty bad personally).

Brosnan was a good Bond in that it was his charm more so than his acting that kept the movies afloat. Bond movies will always make money and the idea of questioning Bond's relevance in the world is obtuse. So intelligence gathering, national/international security is a past time contained to just the cold war?? I don't think so. Brosnan was a popular actor and this was made clear by various interviews of the gegenral public's impression of his casting. He had the typical "look" that people came to associate with Bond.

However, through no real fault of his own, Brosnan's movies declined with every subsequent release imo. His acting didn't particularly help either, which I suppose doesn't count for much because he wasn't really given strong material to work with anyway. The Brosnan era spent too much time box-ticking typical, past time cliches and often delved into self parody just to make the audience feel comfortable and remind them that we're watching a Bond movie.

Brosnan not returning is something he needs to get over and accept. It's not like he initially had plans to come back anyway because he didn't even want to do a 5th initially. However, if I were Brosnan i would be pissed at the fact that the level of care, detail and the caliber of the scripts, actors, production and the high level of effort going into these movies is something the producers just felt they didn't need to do with him in the role. That can be seen as a somewhat huge slap to the face but what ever. Craig is here, Craig is a far superior Bond and Craig is bringing back a Bond that can be taken seriously as opposed to the juvenile nonsense of the Brosnan era.

Here's a gift for ya...

I wish that Brosnan's post-GE movies got the care of GE instead of being treated like typical Bond fare that at times fell into self-parody. I feel as though Brosnan deserves to be pissed because Craig essentially got the type of Bond movie Brosnan always wanted to make.


I agree Brosnan aired the laundry in public too much (albeit has he said anything about it since 2007??). However, EON handled the situation terribly when they stringed him along in case they couldn't find a replacement actor and then only told him he was out when they cast Craig at the last minute. But I'm somewhat biased, because I always wanted to see Bond do a darker tone like CR. He proved he could with certain scenes in TND and TWINE, but they never gave him the material. Though some of that "juvenile material" is missed as MI4 showed by filling the void. I like Craig, so I'm fine with it. But I wish Brosnan gota better film to go out on.

I love Casino Royale, but I love a few other Bond movies more because I do like some of the more traditional elements that were missing in CR. That's what I can't wait for Skyfall. Some of that is coming back.

Though Dalton never had the classic film, he is still my favorite Bond. His portrayal just in my opinion falls closer in line with Fleming's man, and he looked the most similar too.

GE as originally written could have been great. From what I've heard they lightened the tone considerably when Bros came on board.

It's amazing how much Dalton eerily looks like Fleming's depiction of Bond.

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When I was reading Casino Royale and Live and Let Die, I had Dalton's Bond pictured in my head. However, my problems with Dalton is that his acting did feel forced in some situations and that in comparison to Craig, he lacks the subtle charm and sense of humor in some scenes.

By the way, how close is Craig's Bond to the books and what keeps him from being closer to novel Bond than Dalton?

I don't get when people call Dalton "dull" I just can't see that, he seems very similar to Craig imo, like an older and more experienced version of Craig's interpretation. In my opinion both Dalton and Craig are the most human Bonds. I guess if you like your Bond as a cartoon like character that may seem "dull" but I disagree completely. I specially like how Dalton reacts to things, wether the emotion he is displaying on screen is anger, surprise, scare, etc, it seems very genuine..far better than anything Brosnan was able to display, and eventhough I like GE I think it is grossly overrated by a lot of fans.

-In LTK I speacially like the look Dalton gives to Sharky after some silly comment he does when Bond just dropped the corrupt cop to the shark with the 2 million briefcase..and of course the delivery of Dalton moments earlier when he drops said corrupt cop to the shark.
-The reaction Bond has when he sees Felix Leiter maimed at his place.

-In TLD when his collegue Saunders is killed in the fair, Dalton stare is just nuts.

Just to name a few...I think the only other Bond actor that matches that is Craig, but that is how I like my Bond, I really don't care about Brosnan and his smugness..not to sound ranty because I actually enjoy Brosnan movies, they are very entertaining.

Like I said, Dalton just lacked the subtle charm and sense humor that Craig does. And as DA Crowe said, Dalton was always so outwardly angry. I know he was being close to Ian Fleming's depiction of Bond, but I always felt that Bond's characterization in the movies should be a combination of movie and novel Bond.

I actually think Brosnan works better in the darker moments of GE (or any of them that were sprinkled in his tenure) because he doesn't wear his bitterness or anger on his sleeve like DAlton did. He buries it deep down inside. So, when it comes out in quiet moments like when he confronts Trevelyan or the "keep me alive" bit or later when he kills 006 or the hitman in TND, it's more surprising to see it. It's kind of disturbing that underneath the joking superhero is something dark and violent.

I also think if Dalton was in GE, 006 would have been a mentor played by Hopkins. Him being instead a double for Bond with Sean Bean is part of why that movies works so well.

That's what I love about Brosnan too. You always got a feeling that there was something darker inside him. He's a man with a dark past, and skeltons in his closet, but he always hides it with a smile and a wise crack because he wants no one to crack to armor.


I don't hate any of the Bonds either. All of them have their different strengths and they were realized in at least 1 of their movies.
 
Just going to have to disagree. I never believed Dalton. he always seemed like an actor trying really hard to me. Brosnan being a charming guy who is really a bastard underneath? Sure, I bought that. Dalton always tried really hard and never sold me.

Brosnan seemed more like a parody at his worst. A pretty boy trying to be tough. Dalton, Connery, Lazenby, and Craig all outdid him there. He tried to be Moore with the one liners but was never as witty or charming or good at the delivery.


Now this i agree with. The Bond movies of the 1980s were really creaky. Even FYEO, which I like, feels a bit dated for its time. A modern director could have put some blood into Dalton's two entries and made them more exciting. Direction seems very important for modern Bond movies as the Connery/Moore style has gone out of date in terms of direction. Martin Campbell is a really good director for Bond and gave GE and CR a lot of style. But the direction for TWINE and QOS was off and turned interesting ideas into boring films.
Campbell may very well be the best Bond director of the last 30 years (Mendes might outdo him soon) but even Campbell is only as good as his scripts. Green Lantern and Legend of Zorro proved that. Even he couldn't tell a poor story like those but even his actual direction seemed to suffer because he had nothing to work with.

Mendes is one of the freshest choices EON made instead of going with a lesser known director they can keep under their thumb or a "member of the Bond family" so to speak.
 
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I disagree that Brosnan was not successful at being witty or charming. He was definitely great delivering those one liners. And Brosnan came off more as a parody more because of the quality of the movies, not because of him.

And with the 80s movies, I honestly don't think John Glen was bad, but he was wildly inconsistent with his directing, in addition to the scripts.
 
It's amazing how much Dalton eerily looks like Fleming's depiction of Bond.

Eo6LR.jpg
Ds8Dy.jpg

Mind = BLOWN

Anyway, again I like GE but to me those "dark" Brosnan moments were not convincing, different perceptions I suppose, but it was not convincing at all to me after all of the smugness and all of the charm that he keeps demonstrating first and foremost.

I agree Brosnan letting out some dark moments from time to time could've been surprising give how his Bond normally behaves, but I don't think he made it work in a convincing way...his "it's what keeps me alive" delivery I just don't like at all for example. And I think Dalton could've worked with the Hopkins mentor like Travelyan or with Sean Bean used to be partner Travelyan. GE even the finished product had more elements better suited to Dalton than Brosnan that the former could've exploited much better.

I think this is the cool thing of the Bond films, it leds to interesting discussions regarding our different points of view.
 
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Funny thing when I was younger I always got dalton and bronson mixed up. Cause they always looked so simular to me.
 
Also to add to that, Moore was gonna leave after For Your Eyes only and EON was briefly searching for a new actor until they heard about Connery's Never Say Never Again. After they heard that, they begged Moore to come back for Octopussy because they felt Moore would be able to compete with Connery at the B.O. (and he did, at the Box office and quality-wise, as Octopussy is better than NSNA, but both are pretty bad personally).

Agreed...although I bet that was an interesting time to be a Bond fan. The legal limitations on NSNA are understandable but I wish more changes had been made to make it less like Thunderball.

NSNA has its good parts like the fight with Pat Roach, a decent performance by Brandauer, the early idea of a new M disliking Bond, and Fatima Blush but overall its such a weak half assed effort. Lorenzo Semple wrote clever Batman but not so clever Bond.


It's amazing how much Dalton eerily looks like Fleming's depiction of Bond.

Eo6LR.jpg
Ds8Dy.jpg


When I was reading Casino Royale and Live and Let Die, I had Dalton's Bond pictured in my head. However, my problems with Dalton is that his acting did feel forced in some situations and that in comparison to Craig, he lacks the subtle charm and sense of humor in some scenes.

Thats probably one reason Cubby wanted him for so long. Dalton had those Golden age Hollywood leading man good looks. More chiseled. Thats why he fit so well in The Rocketeer. Strangely enough he showed more of the charm some people say he lacked as Bond. I think Dalton was lacking that macho sexuality that Craig has.

I'm not gay (not that there's anything wrong with that) but even though Dalton is more traditionally better looking I could see why women would find Craig more magnetic. Its a similar thing that Connery had though I've known girls that said Connery and Dalton were their favorite Bonds because of the way they looked.

It would have been interesting to see that often dreamed about pure fantasy Cary Grant/Alfred Hitchcock James Bond movie that some always wish had happened. I think Grant actually was considered for Bond at point during the casting of Dr No but turned it down.
 
I disagree that Brosnan was not successful at being witty or charming. He was definitely great delivering those one liners. And Brosnan came off more as a parody more because of the quality of the movies, not because of him.

And with the 80s movies, I honestly don't think John Glen was bad, but he was wildly inconsistent with his directing, in addition to the scripts.

I never said he wasn't successful. I said he wasn't as good as Roger Moore. Moore could say damn near anything and be funny. He had perfect timing. Something he was honing as far back as "Maverick." Brosnan was never that good and some of the lines they fed him were awful. But Moore's "keeping the British end up" line has to be one of the funniest in Bond history. Great delivery. Moore could just raise an eyebrow during a rather "compromising" situation and sell it.

And Glen wasn't bad but he wasn't the inspired director that past Bond directors had been. I'm pretty sure Glen started directing second unit work on the Bond movies and worked his way up.

But he was much better than some of the guys that followed him.
 
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Well of course he's not as good as Moore. Moore is tops when it comes to be humor. The problem with Moore was that he was fed too many one liners by the time Octopussy and a AVTAK came around.

And Glen was part of the Bond staff for a long time, as he started as an editor for On Her Majesty's Secret Service.
 
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