Jared Leto IS The Joker - Part 10

[hellblazer103]

you know, i don't care what anyone says. i dug that lovers and madmen story. the whole " joker hallucinating bunnies " thing was kinda weird though.

 

[The Joker]

If we're taking the comment super-literally instead of taking it at face value (a hyperbolic remark meant to express my love of Morrison), then sure.

Besides, I was more referring to his characterizations and understanding of these characters in general. In other words, the Joker being "super sane" and constantly reinvented himself in order to compensate and adapt to the ever-changing world around him. So again, you can chalk that up to poor wording on my part if you'd like.

That's why I thought you were including the perma grin in that bracket, because it was a significant part of the characterization stamp Morrison put on Joker. He went and did this to himself, in a big dramatic reveal to Batman as a significance for some kind of rebirth for himself after he was shot in the face by that copycat Batman.

It's why I had to ask if you were including the perma grin he did because I distinctly remember you being one of the ones champing for no perma smile this time.

That clearly has not changed t: If I'm honest the only one I didn't like was Nicholson's because it added nothing to the character, and wasn't even creepy. But yeah I love the general characterization of Joker by Morrison. If Leto has taken any of his advice on board then that will be the second movie Joker he's influenced. Because he also influenced Heath's as well;

Heath Ledger’s Joker -- no question it was an amazing performance. And if he were still with us, we could ask him about his various inspirations: what did he watch, what did he read, what did he observe, how did he inhabit his character? Well, one of the clues he left us was his Joker diary, which he kept four months before shooting.

In it, there’s a list of what would make the Joker laugh – including AIDS, landmines, geniuses suffering irreversible brain damage, brunch, and sombreros. “It gave me this chill,” Grant Morrison said, because it was word-for-word what Morrison had written in one of his Batman stories.

“There’s a Batman [Batman #663, “The Clown at Midnight”] that I did last year that hardly anyone read,” Morrison said.

As a response to his own "Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth,” Morrison had continued his themes of the duality of Joker and the Batman in “The Clown at Midnight.” Having established with “Arkham” that the Joker had a sort of “super-sanity” and that he shifted between personalities,” Morrison explored the idea further in “The Clown at Midnight,” by showing that each time the Joker escaped, one of those new personalities would emerge.

“It’s a really good story,” Morrison said, “but because it was prose, people didn’t want to read it.”

Except, apparently, Heath, who saw Morrison’s list and put it in his Joker diary. “He actually had a whole list -- blind babies, doctors, accidents -- really horrible stuff,” Morrison said. “Heath wrote it all down. So yeah, I can see there’s a lot of [‘Arkham’ and ‘Midnight’] in his Joker.”

http://splashpage.mtv.com/2008/08/0...-morrison-opens-up-heath-ledgers-joker-diary/

I'm well aware of the history. Bermejo was the one which spearheaded the conversation 2 years prior in this BOF interview, in which his concepts were introduced.

Interesting comments from him regarding the previous Batman movies;

BOF: Do you have any thoughts about the Burton/Schumacher films

At the time the first one came out, I was in fifth grade and absolutely loved it. It was so completely new and fresh at the time and obviously made a huge impact on how superhero movies would be done for the next ten years. Visually, they were impressive. Honestly, I can't watch it now because all I concentrate on is how loose the story is, and how little they made you care about the character the movie is named after. In my opinion, all the previous movies failed to be true Batman films because most of the important elements of the Batman mythos where missing. There was no relationship with Gordon, Alfred was never a real presence, and Batman never really did those cool Batman things. The guy could barely move in that suit and he always seemed a little weak to me. It seemed like the attitude was, 'Let's just get to Batman doing his thing so we can spend more time introducing the Joker". The second one was barely a Batman movie at all. It just featured Batman characters. That was clearly a case of Tim Burton doing his own thing with no real care about a story or what these characters represented. The last two were just unbearable and I couldn't get through more than 20 minutes of the fourth. I walked out of the theater it was so bad.

I have to say I agree with many of his sentiments on them.

you know, i don't care what anyone says. i dug that lovers and madmen story. the whole " joker hallucinating bunnies " thing was kinda weird though.

The Batman Confidential one? Yeah I really enjoyed it, too. I just hated at the time DC were touting it as his official origin. They clearly reneged on that since.

 

[Boom]

Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth remains one of my favorite depictions of the character. Hell, it could be my favorite.

Clown at Midnight is also brilliant, though I admit the goofy CG art threw my the first time I read it. Didn't mind the prose, though. I majored in literature so it was up my alley.

 

[AnneFan]

you know, i don't care what anyone says. i dug that lovers and madmen story. the whole " joker hallucinating bunnies " thing was kinda weird though.

I haven't read that yet. I've been planning to for a while, but was put off by some of the reactions. What's the general gist of the story?

 

[Jekecy]

I haven't read that yet. I've been planning to for a while, but was put off by some of the reactions. What's the general gist of the story?

Joker's transition into a rebirth of a new personality. It's very, very wordy and unconventional for a comic book, but well worth it.

 

[DeadStroke]

But see, those still perpetuate an illusion. Angry, sad, stoic, he always has a smiling face.

I just don't think this:

Is as striking of an image with a permanent smile.

Is it me or does it seem like Ayer (or the DP) intentional decided to cut Leto's damaged tattoo off as much as possible?

We've only seen a small bit of the Joker (on film). But in every shot it seems like an effort to avoid it.

I wonder if that forehead tat was more Leto's idea.

 

[The Shape]

This picture is awesome.

 

[Silliminite]

Indeed.

Aesthetically, Leto's Joker is the most pleasing live-action version of the character in my eyes.

 

[Travesty]

...you need to clean your eyes out.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth remains one of my favorite depictions of the character. Hell, it could be my favorite.

I end up reading a lot of misinterpretations based on Morrison's "Super-sanity" theory.
If Leto has indeed asked him for tips on Joker's mindframe, then he'd best explain it right, because it is a head-scratching concept...

I don't know if anybody would agree with me, but I often turn to Freud's symbolic structure of the Id, ego and super-ego.
Id contains desires, wants and urges, some that delve into the dark side of human nature: sexual, violent, etc.

Ego is the term used to soothe the Id's urges. It ends up rationalising our course of behavioral conduct, what stops us from veering off into what society would deem "criminality" and giving into our basic desires. For example: the mind has rationalised and weighed out the reality of the situation that it's under, and this keeps it from stealing an item of the Id's desire and instead, sensibly purchases it at a shop. The super-ego is implemented by strong parental guidance; installation of feelings such as guilt and remorse. This would reinforce the ego's shaky control over the attempted negation supplied by the Id.

Now, with Joker - strip all that way. Completely and utterly breakdown his mind's fundamentals. Only the basic portion of the mind exists, which is the Id - the basic human desires. Stripped away is the part of the ego that would not rationally give into the Id, and the super-ego, where there would be no longer be chains of emotion to help suppress the Id.
So, no longer does Joker's mind rationalise the reality in which he has been formed and moulded by - it has basically rebooted and wiped itself clean of former feelings, that's if course if he even had them before he became the clown. This, I think, was caused by a psychological breakdown of identity - deliberate or not.
It's why he connects himself so closely to Batman. As Morrison has it in AA, Joker knows underneath the cowl, it doesn't matter who the face belongs to, as Batman is Bruce's real face. So, past the white skin, red lips and manic smile, there is no identity beyond the face of the clown.

The term of super-sanity derives from Joker's coping mechanisms in the world of the 21st century. How our insanity can be caused by the problems we face in the 21st century. Mental breakdowns that we may never fully recover from, caused by everyday troubles. Joker's mind has managed to find a way to keep it from ever suffering mental scarring...or he's managed to find it on a conscious level.

How his mind REALLY works and operates is a mystery we'll never know, because his past is so well guarded...

 

[Angel0fDeath]

Is it me or does it seem like Ayer (or the DP) intentional decided to cut Leto's damaged tattoo off as much as possible?

We've only seen a small bit of the Joker (on film). But in every shot it seems like an effort to avoid it.

I wonder if that forehead tat was more Leto's idea.

It's on the top of his forehead. They're not gonna point the camera directly at it.

 

[The Shape]

Is it me or does it seem like Ayer (or the DP) intentional decided to cut Leto's damaged tattoo off as much as possible?

We've only seen a small bit of the Joker (on film). But in every shot it seems like an effort to avoid it.

I wonder if that forehead tat was more Leto's idea.

No. Foreheads get cut out of close-up shots and still photos more than you'd think, or more than we typically notice.

 

[Rodrigo90]

It's a mechanism designed to unnerve, in most cases. So, obviously you won't entirely get the full picture.

 

[hellblazer103]

Joker's transition into a rebirth of a new personality. It's very, very wordy and unconventional for a comic book, but well worth it.

you're thinking of clown at midnight , methinks, lol

 

[hellblazer103]

Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth remains one of my favorite depictions of the character. Hell, it could be my favorite.

Clown at Midnight is also brilliant, though I admit the goofy CG art threw my the first time I read it. Didn't mind the prose, though. I majored in literature so it was up my alley.

yet somehow the decision to have joker slice his own tongue outta nowhere made less sense to me than crossdressing bearded joker.

 

[DeadStroke]

 

[Rodrigo90]

Is this Joker's beanie, goggles wearing Mini Me?!

 

[The Shape]

That jacket is dope.

 

[Guts]

 

[Slade W]

That is a cool Joker picture. Facially, Leto's Joker reminds me the most of the Dark Knight Returns one (I not just referring to this picture).

 

[Rorschach2012]

i agree that Leto's Joker resembles TDKR Joker (aside from the tats).

 

[Wildcard]

Loving that jacket.

 

[Jumpin' Jack]

Really like the little Punch doll, nice detail.

 

[Rodrigo90]

That's what it is

 

[MasterChief2829]

Is Suicide Squad expected to have any prescence at NYCC? Jared is in NYC, he just filmed more for his "Beyond the Horizon" thing but I was thinking maybe he is sticking around for that? Not betting on it though.