Jared Leto IS The Joker - - - - - - - Part 16

[harlequinade]

Nothing concrete really, but I'm sure random people on the Internet have mentioned it on things like Twitter and such.

But considering their rotten tomatoes standing, BVS and SS are sure to be up for quite a few of them if I were a betting man. Hopefully they spare Affleck, Will, and Margot though. They were all pretty great. I probably give Henry a pass too just because he had little or nothing to work with.

It's popular to hate on DC (and let's face it the studio worked very hard for this to be the state of affairs with them messing up so much). Razzie go after what is popular to hate like Twilight etc.

If Jared is near any talk of Razzie for this or actually gets nominated I hope he doesn't return to the role. He doesn't need this s***.

 

[Joy in J-Land]

There's word that Leto's up for a Razzie?

I've seen a poll where they asked if he would win a Razzie. Almost 53% thought he wouldn't even be nominated and another 20% thought he wouldn't win if he was. No indication of how many people voted.

 

[Boom]

Well if Leto walks away, then Affleck gets to choose his own Joker (assuming Joker is in the solo film). Can't be mad about that.

In that scenario, bring us Walton Goggins or John Hawkes.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Even though I detest his performance, he really did deserve better in regard to cut scenes. Like, a lot of them were cut. I would be pissed too.

If he wants to move on, I'm all for it. Perhaps the batman solo can be sort of a soft reboot for the character. It's unconventional and wil probably be weird at first, but I'm willing to turn my head continuity wise if it means getting a more traditional looking joker who also acts like the joker.

Do everything you can to get Fassbender away from fox if it happens, that man has a chilling smile. Or my boy Goggins of course.

 

[Jekecy]

You know, I'm actually really curious now about Gosling in that part. If it were close enough for talks, there's some interest there. If we have to lose Jared, Ryan should be on top of that list again.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I love Ryan Gosling, he has improved so much over the years, but he is not right for this by any means. I don't think he'd soften up on his sequel stance either, except for maybe The Nice Guys.

They should be looking for guys around or a little older than Affleck if this actually happens. I kinda feel bad even talking about this when there is literally no evidence of Jared jumping ship.

 

[Greens]

You guys know he can't just walk away, right? He's got a multi-film deal, and WB releasing Leto from his contract would be a PR disaster.

 

[harlequinade]

You guys know he can't just walk away, right? He's got a multi-film deal, and WB releasing Leto from his contract would be a PR disaster.

I don't know that much about contract law but it seems to me WB might have broken their part of the deal with how he was treated, especially making him think he is promoting supporting role, when it was a cameo. He could try and get out of the contract based on that.

 

[Joy in J-Land]

You guys know he can't just walk away, right? He's got a multi-film deal, and WB releasing Leto from his contract would be a PR disaster.

Well, if that's the case, I hope Affleck has more creative control over the Batman solo movie so there isn't any last minute slicing and dicing.

 

[Boom]

Even though I detest his performance, he really did deserve better in regard to cut scenes. Like, a lot of them were cut. I would be pissed too.

If he wants to move on, I'm all for it. Perhaps the batman solo can be sort of a soft reboot for the character. It's unconventional and wil probably be weird at first, but I'm willing to turn my head continuity wise if it means getting a more traditional looking joker who also acts like the joker.

Do everything you can to get Fassbender away from fox if it happens, that man has a chilling smile. Or my boy Goggins of course.

Here's the truth of it though. While WB has ****ed up time and time again with the DCEU, it's also possible that they cut his scenes because 1) they were pointless to the plot and deserved to be cut, or 2) his scenes are just flat-out bad. We keep going on and on about Leto getting screwed here, but I'd humor the possibility that the performance was an all-around disaster and WB was trying to reduce the fallout as much as possible.

If his performance was testing very well with people and they genuinely thought they had a winner on their hands, they'd have kept his material in the film - whether it was relevant to the plot or not. Honestly, the fact that they cut so much of their premier villain speaks volumes to me. I just don't think Leto's and Ayer's take clicked with people.

 

[DeadStroke]

If any CBM villain deserves a Razzie this year its Lex Luthor.

I think he would have been a decent Riddler.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Ben needs to tell WB to F off if they try to micromanage him.

He won that studio an Oscar and practically did them a favor by taking the Batman role when I'm guessing no one of significance wanted to follow the Nolan trilogy, they just need to let the man work.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I don't know that much about contract law but it seems to me WB might have broken their part of the deal with how he was treated, especially making him think he is promoting supporting role, when it was a cameo. He could try and get out of the contract based on that.

Unless his contract stipulates that he has to have X-amount of screen time in the final product (which I doubt) then nothing is broken. He most likely signed on for 3 films so he isn't going anywhere unless WB doesnt want him.

 

[Greens]

I don't know that much about contract law but it seems to me WB might have broken their part of the deal with how he was treated, especially making him think he is promoting supporting role, when it was a cameo. He could try and get out of the contract based on that.

Pretty sure WB held up their end, which is featuring him in the movie. The onus is on the signer to make sure he's up to the task and acknowledges the potential risks. The contract would only be nullified if something heinous occurred under WB's watch.

Also, I don't think Leto is prepared to sever ties with WB forever. He may not be as prolific an actor as others in the business, but he's got his own ass to cover professionally.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Gosling is better at playing quiet psychopaths. Not show offs like the Joker. Joaquin Phoenix would be better.

 

[Jekecy]

You guys know he can't just walk away, right? He's got a multi-film deal

The multi-picture contract is there to exercise the studio's right to call you back. If neither party figures it's better to move on, they're not bound to continue.

and WB releasing Leto from his contract would be a PR disaster.

Par the course of the DCEU.

 

[Boom]

Ben needs to tell WB to F off if they try to micromanage him.

He won that studio an Oscar and practically did them a favor by taking the Batman role when I'm guessing no one of significance wanted to follow the Nolan trilogy, they just need to let the man work.

They won't. They're already desperately trying to keep Nolan in-house, despite the latter showing that he has no problem working with other studios. They're not about to lose another one of their golden boys.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Here's the truth of it though. While WB has ****ed up time and time again with the DCEU, it's also possible that they cut his scenes because 1) they were pointless to the plot and deserved to be cut, or 2) his scenes are just flat-out bad. We keep going on and on about Leto getting screwed here, but I'd humor the possibility that the performance was an all-around disaster and WB was trying to reduce the fallout as much as possible.

If his performance was testing very well with people and they genuinely thought they had a winner on their hands, they'd have kept his material in the film - whether it was relevant to the plot or not. Honestly, the fact that they cut so much of their premier villain speaks volumes to me. I just don't think Leto's and Ayer's take clicked with people.

I have a hunch that his deleted scenes are flat out bad, but it's unfair to assume without seeing them. My logic is that if WB wasn't comfortable with the Harley joker abuse angle, they should have stopped Ayer from doing that in the writing process. Never even should have reached the filming stage.

 

[Greens]

Unless his contract stipulates that he has to have X-amount of screen time in the final product (which I doubt) then nothing is broken. He most likely signed on for 3 films so he isn't going anywhere unless WB doesnt want him.

Most likely, his contract contains a credit stipulation. Regardless of his role, he gets second, third, whatever billing. That has no bearing on actual screen time as we've seen time and time again.

 

[DeadStroke]

I also think the ultimate edition redeems Lex Luthor as well.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I feel like Ben is the deciding factor in all of this. If he wants Jared as the Joker in his movie, we more than likely see some radical changes to the character. I think Ben is pretty in sync with the audience reaction and I'm guessing he wasn't too thrilled with Ayer's modernized interpretation of Joker, but hey, it wasn't his movie so what is he gonna say?

 

[DeadStroke]

Grace Randolph, of all people, had interesting point about Leto as the Joker.

She hated his Joker, but felt it was more because of a lack of direction.

She said it was clear that Leto is not a great improv actor. Seems that Ayer was relying or hoping Leto could make the material much better than it was.

She felt that he needs a director like Ben Affleck as he's more of a material kind of actor.

She also said its a big gamble to release the cut scenes because for all we know it could be worse and hurt his Joker brand. At least now he can blame Ayer/WB and act like its not his fault the world doesn't "love his Joker"

 

[Boom]

I have a hunch that his deleted scenes are flat out bad, but it's unfair to assume without seeing them. My logic is that if WB wasn't comfortable with the Harley joker abuse angle, they should have stopped Ayer from doing that in the writing process. Never even should have reached the filming stage.

I mean sure, it could be as simple as them getting cold feet over the domestic abuse angle. But a couple of reshoots and they could've worked around that issue. The fact of the matter is that A LOT of his material got cut, even the material not featuring Harley.

The Joker has always been incredibly profitable for WB. They were following up an Oscar-winning performance with an Oscar-winning actor, and everybody involved had been buzzing about Leto's performance for months. Again, if the performance had tested very well with people, I'd wager that they would have kept a good chunk of his material in there. Even if it was altogether pointless to the plot, people still love the character.

But test screenings started taking place, and the end result was them cutting the role down to about 6-7 minutes of screentime. That says something to me.

 

[DeadStroke]

I feel like Ben is the deciding factor in all of this. If he wants Jared as the Joker in his movie, we more than likely see some radical changes to the character. I think Ben is pretty in sync with the audience reaction and I'm guessing he wasn't too thrilled with Ayer's modernized interpretation of Joker, but hey, it wasn't his movie so what is he gonna say?

If you've seen Gone Baby Gone and The Town Ben makes realistic/gritty films.

Believe it or not the "look" of the Joker is not far off what a real Joker would look like in this world. Now if he decides to keep it comic book then yea he'll change it. But don't assume that Ben hates the look. He might just dislike the direction they went with the character.

 

[Greens]

Grace Randolph, of all people, had interesting point about Leto as the Joker.

She hated his Joker, but felt it was more because of a lack of direction.

She said it was clear that Leto is not a great improv actor. Seems that Ayer was relying or hoping Leto could make the material much better than it was.

She felt that he needs a director like Ben Affleck as he's more of a material kind of actor.

She also said its a big gamble to release the cut scenes because for all we know it could be worse and hurt his Joker brand. At least now he can blame Ayer/WB and act like its not his fault the world doesn't "love his Joker"

I think she's right in this. Multiple people have confirmed that Ayer would let Leto "do his thing" by filming a lot of takes, letting him improvise, make small changes to the scenes. In the editing room, you get a whole lot of takes but not one consistent performance. It's a hodgepodge a skilled editor can overcome, but add the not so favorable reaction to Joker's abuse of Harley and they probably decided to gut his scenes as much as possible. Joker still needed to be in the movie, but the absolute minimal amount.

It's a combination of Ayer not controlling the movie enough and WB controlling the movie too much.