Jared Leto IS The Joker - - - - - - - Part 16

[Timebomb]

If you take away the tattoos that literally read I am the Joker and the green hair is he even the Joker? The movie tried so hard in the short amount of screen time to shove this version down our throats.

Yes I get it, the laugh and smile tattoos and the Joker tattoos , this is the Joker. Might as well have a neon sign that says "Joker here, look it's the Joker"

 

[Astro13Zombie]

Ledger fanboys are the absolute ****ing worst.

 

[Visualiza]

This is hilarious. Seriously that is one of the funniest things I've read in a long time.

Leto's love sick puppy, honka honka, tamed performance cannot touch Ledger's legendary performance, or Jack Nicholson's for that matter. Seeing them mentioned in the same sentence is almost an insult considering how far below the standard Letoker went from his predecessors.

Co-signed.

Can't speak for anyone else, but I don't like the idea that the Joker's main drive is his fixation on Harley. Makes him too predictable, far too easy to exploit, and much less interesting than he has the potential to be. What's funny is that Batman could practically pull a "Killing Joke" on the man himself in this universe. Given Batman's antics in BvS...I wouldn't even put it past him.

 

[The Joker]

Yup, I do. I agree that lacking performance was result of weak characterization, but that would be Ayer's fault, not Leto's, that's all I'm trying to say.

I am not necessarily talking to you right now, but I did notice one interesting thing - Superman's character gets botched (well, in minds of many people, though I personally don't agree) and it's not the actor, Henry Cavill, but Snyder, director, who gets blamed for it. Same happens with Joker and everyone are pointing fingers at Leto and do not mention Ayer as the one responsible. Funny thing.

Oh yeah, I don't blame Leto for any of this. Even the best actors can't make s*** shine. That goes the same for Cavill, and all the other unpopular DCEU characterizations. The actors are just following the flimsy scripts and direction.

Though in Leto's case he also has the added factor of a lot of his material being cut. But then again his cut material may not be an improvement. But still its missing material.

 

[Saint]

Ledger fanboys are the absolute ****ing worst.

Yeah, it's the worst how people have opinions on performances based on their experiences watching them. How absurd!

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Ledger fanboys are the absolute ****ing worst.

snyder cult worshippers who make websites like this:

http://www.manofsteelanswers.com/

are far far worse

 

[Boom]

I didn't care for Leto's take, but if he was given a look and a script as good as Ledgers who knows how it might have turned out

But he wasn't, so all we're left with is to judge what we've seen.

People are of course free to prefer Leto's take and performance. For my part, Ledger was at least able to balance the character's flamboyance with some sense of nuance and control, and made for a more satisfying and rounded performance. I bought the performance, every step of the way.

Leto came across as someone trying desperately to convince us of how crazy he was with over-the-top manic behavior. It stunk of an amateurish take on insanity, with all the cliched cuts and ribbons.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

Yeah, it's the worst how people have opinions on performances based on their experiences watching them. How absurd!

That's not what I'm talking about and you know it.
I really couldn't care less if you prefer Ledger over Leto, but if you're going to treat your opinion as fact and **** on anybody that says they prefer Leto.....well

 

[Saint]

I am not necessarily talking to you right now, but I did notice one interesting thing - Superman's character gets botched (well, in minds of many people, though I personally don't agree) and it's not the actor, Henry Cavill, but Snyder, director, who gets blamed for it. Same happens with Joker and everyone are pointing fingers at Leto and do not mention Ayer as the one responsible. Funny thing.

Part of it is probably how over-the-top Leto's apparent behavior during the production of the film was. Given all that acting out, I think people expected... more--whether that's fair or not.

 

[The Joker]

That's not what I'm talking about and you know it.
It really couldn't care less if you prefer Ledger over Leto, but if you're going to treat your opinion as fact and **** on anybody that says they prefer Leto.....well

You mean like this; http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=34101511&postcount=140

Where people were called ridiculous for thinking Ledger's much better than Leto. A post you agreed with. Now here you are crying foul for people retaliating against such an ignorant post.

 

[Tony Gunk]

We're not in 2008. That flimsy sympathy card excuse doesn't wash any more. 8 years later, and his performance is still as praised as ever. Time always tells what is true quality if it holds up. Ledger's popularity has. So has TDK's.

With the hype and success of that film the acclaim was never going to wane, so no point in kidding yourself on that it was ever likely to.

 

[KillerWolf]

Co-signed.

Can't speak for anyone else, but I don't like the idea that the Joker's main drive is his fixation on Harley. Makes him too predictable, far too easy to exploit, and much less interesting than he has the potential to be. What's funny is that Batman could practically pull a "Killing Joke" on the man himself in this universe. Given Batman's antics in BvS...I wouldn't even put it past him.

I agree with this.

Well aside from the probability of this Batman pulling a "Killing Joke", I can't imagine him doing this. But yes, this Joker is much more vulnerable in that sense and it is something that bothers me quite a bit.

Oh yeah, I don't blame Leto for any of this. Even the best actors can't make s*** shine. That goes the same for Cavill, and all the other unpopular DCEU characterizations. The actors are just following the flimsy scripts and direction.

Though in Leto's case he also has the added factor of a lot of his material being cut. But then again his cut material may not be an improvement. But still its missing material.

I know you didn't like the gangster contextualization Ayer went for since the day one, so you were probably a wrong person for me to direct this at, but it was on my mind at the moment.

Contextualization and characterization Ayer went with would still remain, but we would at least see Leto's acting properly in one full self-contained scene that wasn't chopped into pieces... it would have given us better insight of what he brings in terms of mannerisms and overall presence. Though, now when I think about it, perhaps it's better in a way that we didn't get much... I do wonder if Batman solo could retcon some of the things from SS. Harley and Joker relationship (for which I actually blame WB, not Ayer), being first.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

if you prefer Leto's Joker over Heath's, thats cool. I just so happen to prefer pretty much every interpretation of the Joker ever over Jared Leto's.

Just don't treat me like I'm an a**hole when I say that I think he was just atrocious. Its not like I'm not calling you a tasteless idiot when you say you enjoyed him. Everyone has to stop taking things so personally. You didn't act in the movie, stop being so personally invested.

And I think the only ones bringing up Ledger are the people that are pissed off that others don't like his performance. Just move on already. And besides, theres already a board where we can discuss how much we hated him, I encourage all you like minded people to join us over at our little nest:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=34101705#post34101705

 

[Tony Gunk]

Ledger fanboys are the absolute ****ing worst.

You bet that a lot of them are being even harder on Leto than need be too, just to further protect their man and get the point across that he was a genius who turned in an other worldly performance that will never ever ever ever be matched by anyone again.

 

[The Joker]

With the hype and success of that film the acclaim was never going to wane, so no point in kidding yourself on that it was ever likely to.

Batman 1989 had huge hype and success. In fact the summer of 1989 was called Batmania. People would pay to see movies they didn't even want to see just so they could watch the trailer. Posters on bus stops used to get stolen. It was insane levels of hype matched with equally massive success. That waned. That is not even considered a contender for best CBM let alone best Batman movie.

So who's kidding themselves here?

 

[Boom]

That's not what I'm talking about and you know it.
I really couldn't care less if you prefer Ledger over Leto, but if you're going to treat your opinion as fact and **** on anybody that says they prefer Leto.....well

To be fair. Ledger's Joker:

1) Had more screentime
2) Was actually important to the plot of the film he was in
3) Was universally acclaimed by critics and moviegoers alike
4) Cleaned house in awards season
5) Was a pop culture juggernaut
6) Is still talked about eight years later, and will continue to be talked about for years to come

People can talk all they want about the performance being overrated or his death playing a part in it, but I challenge anyone to deny any of that.

Now again, people are free to prefer Leto's take and performance. But even if I preferred Leto's take, I'd STILL give the edge to Ledger for the reasons given above. I simply cannot say that Leto's seven minutes of screen time that contributed absolutely nothing to the plot of the film is categorically better than what Ledger contributed.

Is it unfair that most of his footage got cut? Sure, i suppose. Not sure how much more relevant he would've been to the plot, but either way that's how the cookie crumbled.

 

[Tony Gunk]

But he wasn't, so all we're left with is to judge what we've seen.

People are of course free to prefer Leto's take and performance. For my part, Ledger was at least able to balance the character's flamboyance with some sense of nuance and control, and made for a more satisfying and rounded performance. I bought the performance, every step of the way.

Leto came across as someone trying desperately to convince us how crazy he is with over-the-top manic behavior. It stunk of an amateurish take on insanity, with all the cliched cuts and ribbons.

Can't argue with that. I didn't like it, I don't feel he was right for the part.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Ok, lets get this out in the open so everyone knows where we all stand. How many of you are strictly heath ledger joker fanboys instead of just being a fan of the character in general.

I find myself in the latter.

 

[CapedCrusader14]

I'm a fan of the character in general and always have been. He's my favourite villain in all of fiction.

 

[Visualiza]

I agree with this.

Well aside from the probability of this Batman pulling a "Killing Joke", I can't imagine him doing this. But yes, this Joker is much more vulnerable in that sense and it is something that bothers me quite a bit.

Oh, I don't think that there's even a scant possibility of the writers pulling a stunt so monumentally stupid, I'm just saying that if Batman were to do it, I wouldn't be surprised in the least. He's already demonstrated a penchant for being "Punisher-lite" as it is, and is about as manic and irrational as they come. Reminds me of John-Paul Valley more than anyone else if I'm being honest.

 

[KillerWolf]

Ok, lets get this out in the open so everyone knows where we all stand. How many of you are strictly heath ledger joker fanboys instead of just being a fan of the character in general.

I find myself in the latter.

I'm not raising any hands Chip, that's how I got myself into girl scouts last time.

Once bittten, twice shy.

 

[Micromind]

Yup, I do. I agree that lacking performance was result of weak characterization, but that would be Ayer's fault, not Leto's, that's all I'm trying to say.

I am not necessarily talking to you right now, but I did notice one interesting thing - Superman's character gets botched (well, in minds of many people, though I personally don't agree) and it's not the actor, Henry Cavill, but Snyder, director, who gets blamed for it. Same happens with Joker and everyone are pointing fingers at Leto and do not mention Ayer as the one responsible. Funny thing.

If someone doesn't like the Characterization, it does not mean that performance is lacking, I see that people on these boards have a habit of substituting one for the other.

 

[The Joker]

Ok, lets get this out in the open so everyone knows where we all stand. How many of you are strictly heath ledger joker fanboys instead of just being a fan of the character in general.

I find myself in the latter.

I'm a huge fan of the character in general. I love most interpretations of him - Ledger, Hamill, Nicholson Romero, Arkham games, and of course the comics. I have more Joker comics than you can shake a stick at. That's how I was able to put this blog together for Ledger;

http://jokerfans.blogspot.ie/

I have a bedroom full of Joker merch, and even bought a glass display case for my more expensive stuff.

 

[Tony Gunk]

Batman 1989 had huge hype and success. In fact the summer of 1989 was called Batmania. People would pay to see movies they didn't even want to see just so they could watch the trailer. Posters on bus stops used to get stolen. It was insane levels of hype matched with equally massive success. That waned. That is not even considered a contender for best CBM let alone best Batman movie.

So who's kidding themselves here?

I'd say you, using a 27 year old film as your example, one that also had the advantage of being the first blockbuster batman film and the first darker take on the character on the big screen.

If Jack Nicholson snuffed it before the release I'm sure his joker would be put up there in the pantheon of great performances too to be perfectly honest

 

[DeadStroke]