Jared Leto IS The Joker - - - - - - - Part 16

[Chip Chipperson]

there was even a point in time where I got sick of all the heath fanboyism, but that has greatly calmed down over the years.

Its really not because we think Heath was a superior Joker, not at all. His universe is closed and done.

Some of us just feel Leto did a bad job. Has nothing to do with Heath being the gold standard. He never needed to live up to heath, he just needed to give a good performance and a fresh take on the character that worked. I just felt he didn't. I didn't even feel like I was watching the Joker at all. Plain and simple.

 

[Micromind]

snyder cult worshippers who make websites like this:

http://www.manofsteelanswers.com/

are far far worse

You had to bring Snyder into this, now what he has to do with how Ayer directed Joker or his look ?

 

[DeadStroke]

CapeCrusader had a Leto Joker avy. So I know he's one who genuinely was looking forward to the Joker in this.

I'm sure there were others on the fence though...

Too bad WB/DC didn't just let us know Joker's purpose was Harley so we could wrap our heads around that. Too bad they cut his scenes.

 

[The Joker]

I'd say you, using a 27 year old film as your example, one that also had the advantage of being the first blockbuster batman film and the first darker take on the character on the big screen.

Exactly, those notable factors should give it even more of an edge than TDK. But it didn't. TDK has also faced some serious competition since it's release in the height of the comic book movie craze. But it's still top of the mountain. It has the lasting power because it has the quality. So again, you're the one kidding yourself.

If Jack Nicholson snuffed it before the release I'm sure his joker would be put up there in the pantheon of great performances too to be perfectly honest

Yes, because all the actors who have died before their movies came out won Oscars and have had their performances regarded as among the best. Its such a common phenomenon.

 

[Micromind]

Yeah, it's the worst how people have opinions on performances based on their experiences watching them. How absurd!

When was the last post where you posted anything positive about BvS or SS ?

 

[Chip Chipperson]

You had to bring Snyder into this, now what he has to do with how Ayer directed Joker or his look ?

you want to call people out for being the worst, then I say anything should be fair game. And I didn't bring snyder into it. Just his awful fans who attack people on twitter for having opinions that don't align with theirs.

 

[CapedCrusader14]

I can safely say my main issues with Leto's Joker are a combination of characterisation, direction, design, usage and performance.

 

[Boom]

You bet that a lot of them are being even harder on Leto than need be too, just to further protect their man and get the point across that he was a genius who turned in an other worldly performance that will never ever ever ever be matched by anyone again.

Not true on my part.

I've said time and time again, I didn't need Leto to "surpass" Ledger in my eyes. I just wanted a strong performance and characterization. I got neither. That's all it is. MasterChief (who loves Leto's take) is the one who seems insistent on bringing Ledger up in the conversation, so here we are.

I wanted to love Leto's Joker. Truly. I've been in this thread since day one. I have tons of pictures of his Joker saved on my iPad. Hell, I can even pull up a post where I suggested Leto as the Joker long before he was actually cast. I figured if anyone could take the torch from Ledger and do right by the character, it was him.

For the time being, I have been proven wrong.

 

[CapedCrusader14]

CapeCrusader had a Leto Joker avy. So I know he's one who genuinely was looking forward to the Joker in this.

..........

You're absolutely right there, I was willing to bite the bullet and look forward to his performance

 

[KillerWolf]

Oh, I don't think that there's even a scant possibility of the writers pulling a stunt so monumentally stupid, I'm just saying that if Batman were to do it, I wouldn't be surprised in the least. He's already demonstrated a penchant for being "Punisher-lite" as it is, and is about as manic and irrational as they come. Reminds me of John-Paul Valley more than anyone else if I'm being honest.

I get what you mean, but I still I can't imagine batfleck doing so. At his worst he simply didn't care about people dying in a fight, he didn't really go out of his way to kill them. It's a whole another discussion though.

If someone doesn't like the Characterization, it does not mean that performance is lacking, I see that people on these boards have a habit of substituting one for the other.

Well, yeah, that's why I'm for making it clear there is a difference between the two. Though performance is affected by characterization to certain extent, and in this case, characterization severely limited the performance. Your point is noted though, and I agree in that sense that those two things should be viewed separately, for most part.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

You mean like this; http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=34101511&postcount=140

Where people were called ridiculous for thinking Ledger's much better than Leto. A post you agreed with. Now here you are crying foul for people retaliating against such an ignorant post.

If you look back you'll see that he first mentioned that he just preferred Leto to Ledger and he was told that he's "reaching"
He wasn't telling anybody they were wrong for preferring Ledger over Leto. He hadn't called anybody ridiculous at that point. He was just sharing his opinion.
His comment was a reaction to the ******** that I'm talking about. So yeah, No **** I agree with it.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

We got a great batman, a great alfred, a great harley and probably a great gordon come next year too.

Just because of that fact, even with all my dismay regarding his look, I wanted him to do great. Thats the only reason I'm so hard on him now. Because I was genuinely disappointed with even the small amount we got of him. Maybe I'll enjoy the rest of his footage if it ever gets released, who knows.

Look at my posts from 2014, I was on cloud 9 when his name was linked to the role, I probably even said that chances are that I would like his more than Heath's performance, even with nothing to base it on.

 

[DeadStroke]

I think Heath was the best.

Jack was my favorite.

Leto has as much potential as any imo.

I always felt if you put The Shining era Jack in Nolan's world as the Joker he could have given just as good of a performance. Maybe even better considering the fact he's naturally funnier.

Leto just naturally looks so much closer to the character to me. I get people not being on board with the look. However, there are just glimpses of potential greatness there, but for whatever reason Ayer/Leto/WB couldn't capture over the full movie.

I think Leto in the Affleck movie could prove to be the most faithful adaption we've ever seen or solidify he's the worst Joker we've ever seen. He's in the boom or bust category right now. We'll find out for sure in the next movie. However, I need to see it with WB that trusts a director and a director who knows how to reign in Leto just right.

Time will tell.

 

[The Joker]

If you look back you'll see that he first mentioned that he just preferred Leto to Ledger and he was told that he's "reaching"
He wasn't telling anybody they were wrong for preferring Ledger over Leto. He hadn't called anybody ridiculous at that point.
His comment was a reaction to the ******** that I'm talking about. So yeah, No **** I agree with it.

"after watching the movie again today I don't see why people act like he's so much better, it's ridiculous."

That's his quote word for word. So what exactly is he calling ridiculous here if not people thinking like Ledger is better?

 

[Boom]

If you look back you'll see that he first mentioned that he just preferred Leto to Ledger and he was told that he's "reaching"
He wasn't telling anybody they were wrong for preferring Ledger over Leto. He hadn't called anybody ridiculous at that point. He was just sharing his opinion.
His comment was a reaction to the ******** that I'm talking about. So yeah, No **** I agree with it.

Page 5:

So TDK is on SpikeTV right now and I turn to it and the interrogation scene is on and honestly Ledger's constant noises he makes with his mouth, sucking his tongue, are pretty annoying. His laugh still holds up and sounds great but man idk why people act like his performance is the end all be all.

Just a tad bit baiting, no?

 

[Tony Gunk]

Exactly, those notable factors should give it even more of an edge than TDK. But it didn't. TDK has also faced some serious competition since it's release in the height of the comic book movie craze. But it's still top of the mountain. It has the lasting power because it has the quality. So again, you're the one kidding yourself.



Yes, because all the actors who have died before their movies came out won Oscars and have had their performances regarded as among the best. Its such a common phenomenon.

You say that like it's common for young actors to die shortly before the release of their big blockbuster film.

Your hysterical reaction to this and constant knicker wetting sort of make my point for me. You don't get that sensitive and make nonsensical points that absurd without feeling some sort of bizarre loyalty or attachment to something

 

[Jekecy]

Not true on my part.

I've said time and time again, I didn't need Leto to "surpass" Ledger in my eyes. I just wanted a strong performance and characterization. I got neither. That's all it is. MasterChief (who loves Leto's take) is the one who seems insistent on bringing Ledger up in the conversation, so here we are.

I wanted to love Leto's Joker. Truly. I've been in this thread since day one. I have tons of pictures of his Joker saved on my iPad. Hell, I can even pull up a post where I suggested Leto as the Joker long before he was actually cast. I figured if anyone could take the torch from Ledger and do right by the character, it was him.

For the time being, I have been proven wrong.

Did you like anything of what Leto brought to the part (if we can isolate the writing from the performance for a bit)? I've been re-watching some of his scenes, and I can definitely see tons of potential still.

 

[DeadStroke]

 

[Visualiza]

You bet that a lot of them are being even harder on Leto than need be too, just to further protect their man and get the point across that he was a genius who turned in an other worldly performance that will never ever ever ever be matched by anyone again.

That is a *very* long bow to draw. The only types of fans who act out what you're describing are the ones who are insecure about, or feel threatened by, these movies. I could be wrong, but in my opinion...TDK/Ledger fans have nothing to be insecure about. The legacy of those films are pretty well solidified, and it's validated by more than just the "Nolanites", for that matter. There's a particular subset of fans that have indeed been displaying that insecurity you've alluded to in the last 3 years or so, and they turn it up to 11 every time reviews roll in. It ain't the Nolan fans, that's for sure.

 

[Timebomb]

there was even a point in time where I got sick of all the heath fanboyism, but that has greatly calmed down over the years.

Its really not because we think Heath was a superior Joker, not at all. His universe is closed and done.

Some of us just feel Leto did a bad job. Has nothing to do with Heath being the gold standard. He never needed to live up to heath, he just needed to give a good performance and a fresh take on the character that worked. I just felt he didn't. I didn't even feel like I was watching the Joker at all. Plain and simple.

Exactly this

 

[KillerWolf]

I think Heath was the best.

Jack was my favorite.

Leto has as much potential as any imo.

I always felt if you put The Shining era Jack in Nolan's world as the Joker he could have given just as good of a performance. Maybe even better considering the fact he's naturally funnier.

Leto just naturally looks so much closer to the character to me. I get people not being on board with the look. However, there are just glimpses of potential greatness there, but for whatever reason Ayer/Leto/WB couldn't capture over the full movie.

I think Leto in the Affleck movie could prove to be the most faithful adaption we've ever seen or solidify he's the worst Joker we've ever seen. He's in the boom or bust category right now. We'll find out for sure in the next movie. However, I need to see it with WB that trusts a director and a director who knows how to reign in Leto just right.

Time will tell.

Jack was just Jack to me, anyway I digress...

I actually don't mind the look anymore. I've grown to love the grills that make him appear quite similar look to Conrad Veidt in some scenes and tattoos weren't that jarring to me in the film itself, though, I'd still like them gone.

Anyway, I do remain convinced that there is a potential. Just give him a good script and make the film work in his favor, as TDK worked in Ledger's. Or at least, not against him, as SS did. If possible, retcon that frickin' relationship as well. It is still salvageable in my book... now whether they'll do it, remains to be seen.

 

[Tony Gunk]

That is a *very* long bow to draw. The only types of fans who act out what you're describing are the ones who are insecure about, or feel threatened by, these movies. I could be wrong, but in my opinion...TDK/Ledger fans have nothing to be insecure about. The legacy of those films are pretty well solidified, and it's validated by more than just the "Nolanites", for that matter. There's a particular subset of fans that have indeed been displaying that insecurity you've alluded to in the last 3 years or so, and they turn it up to 11 every time reviews roll in. It ain't the Nolan fans, that's for sure.

But it happens mate. Some fans get emotionally attached and do feel threatened by new incarnations, they're usually easy to spot, I don't think there many here in this thread now

Even after BvS I remember a few people in a rage at people daring to say they thought Affleck made a better Batman than Bale

 

[DeadStroke]

Did you like anything of what Leto brought to the part (if we can isolate the writing from the performance for a bit)? I've been re-watching some of his scenes, and I can definitely see tons of potential still.

I've seen the movie twice. Then there are a few scenes that are youtube.

The writing aside I see something there. I don't know if he's got full control of the character yet or they just edited him in a way that always made him unhinged. Not enough quiet moments.

However, the chemical vat scene, the reaction to Harley walking to him on the Chopper I see a lot of potential.

The Common scene and Arkham stuff are just edited to hell. I like some of the stuff, but its liked they just picked his more extreme stuff. I like the Comic Con version of "Really Really bad" much better.

 

[The Joker]

You say that like it's common for young actors to die shortly before the release of their big blockbuster film.

Loads of actors have died before their movies were released.

Here's a handful of examples; http://www.fame10.com/entertainment...es-who-died-before-seeing-their-final-film/2/

Your hysterical reaction to this and constant knicker wetting sort of make my point for me. You don't get that sensitive and make nonsensical points that absurd without feeling some sort of bizarre loyalty or attachment to something

Hysterical reaction? Did I get angry with you? Call you names? Claim what you're saying was a terrible outrage? No. What is nonsensical about I have been saying. Prove me wrong if its so nonsensical.

 

[KillerWolf]

I've seen the movie twice. Then there are a few scenes that are youtube.

The writing aside I see something there. I don't know if he's got full control of the character yet or they just edited him in a way that always made him unhinged. Not enough quiet moments.

However, the chemical vat scene, the reaction to Harley walking to him on the Chopper I see a lot of potential.

The Common scene and Arkham stuff are just edited to hell. I like some of the stuff, but its liked they just picked his more extreme stuff. I like the Comic Con version of "Really Really bad" much better.

I do like his body language. His mannerisms are on-point, very animates series.

As for the bolded part, I've no idea why the hell they tossed out the version where he smiles with that crazy look in his eyes and opt for one with angrier expression instead. It's as if they wanted to throw out all those parts where he was acting as Joker should.