Jared Leto IS The Joker - - - - - - - Part 16

[Guts]

I guess an early concept art was for Joker to be Bruce's evil twin.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

That's the best piece of concept art I've seen so far and it doesn't even scream Joker to me.

Tact is right, thats Bruce Wayne's evil twin

 

[Greens]

Seems like the case tbh. Dude avoided discussing the details behind the tattoos this entire time and then people have already made up that theory >_>

I think it's smart to take what directors say (doesn't matter if it's Snyder, Ayer, Wan, Affleck) with a grain of salt. Canon is dictated by what happens in officially released material. If what the director says contradicts the film, the film is right.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

I guess an early concept art was for Joker to be Bruce's evil twin.

He's a big guy

 

[KillerWolf]

He's a big guy

 

[Astro13Zombie]

 

[hellblazer103]

Die Antwoord is now mad at Ayer for stealing their look for Joker and Harley.

Yep, that's right. Die Antwoord.

And one of their most popular songs just lazily samples an Aphex Twin song that should've been left the **** alone

It all comes full circle

 

[ironman29758]

Die Antwoord is now mad at Ayer for stealing their look for Joker and Harley.

Yep, that's right. Die Antwoord.

Nono

It's just sad that we get all this additional information afterwards. Information that would have maybe even the benefited the film itself. Or at least made character motivations and appearances less ambigues.

I just feel like so much of what's happened in the DCEU, especially pertaining to Batman and co., is either flashbacks, or it happened offscreen. Which for some fans, it doesnt matter. We know our history. But everyone else is getting shoddy Coles notes, which hurts the movie more than anything.

I mean it's not the first time DC has done this with other media(particularly with DCAU), but they developed their characters well enough, and fill in the basic elements of the other media, you eventually learn and become fans of the character. With Suicide Squad or BvS(Especially with BvS), The movie would have benefited from a scene like that (I feel slight retconning might have to be in order if you want to fit Harley as an accomplice of some sort). It could have really fleshed out the characters. Not to mention what stopped this Batman from killing the Joker, since it seems from what we are told the type of character he is, in the moment he probably would have brutally murdered him. Maybe Commissioner Gordon(like in Hush) or Alfred stopped him?

[YT]ZwtpnpPdwK0[/YT]

It crossed my mind today and I literally just came here to say this.

She couldn't. Snyder mentioned that Robin was killed some ten years ago and Ayer said that Joker's metal teeth are result of Batman knocking his real ones out (and I think it's safe to assume he did that right after Joker killed Robin), and not just that Joker had those teeth when he first meets Harleen Quinzel, but he has a tattoo of dead Robin as well.
Case closed - Harley being an accomplice in the murder of Robin is an error on their part that should be disregarded. Should be fairly easy to do so, given that no one in the film actually says it.

I don't think Ayer would make this mistake, so all these introductory titles must have been forced into film by someone else:

Someone who doesn't have a single clue when it comes to the timeframe of events in this universe.

Yeah, lucky it was just a quick flash title, either they explain it in someway , or just retcon it. But saying that, contradicts what was either put in the movie or approved by Ayer.

I kinda like the whole gangster/cartel kind of Joker if he's going to have a love interest. You can tell this version was heavily influenced by Azzarello/Bermejo Joker other than his appearance (which was obviously too much like Ledgers' to use in this film). The club scene is almost straight out of that comic.

However, I think there's a big chance a lot of his stuff was cut purely because it was bad. Letos' Joker was just a odd...and not in a good way. He almost comes across as mentally ******ed in a couple of scenes (driving the car for example). I don't like using that terminology but I don't really understand how else to put it.

I've watched the nightclub scene a few times now and I'm not sure what he's going for? It's like he's really good when he's menacing but then the eccentric parts are just horrible. It's almost like he's unintentionally being sarcastically over the top. I also think it was a big mistake that he went with a voice that sounded so much like Ledger. Jared has such a great range as an actor that it kinda made me think it was a bit of a lazy choice on his behalf.

Overall I think he's the worst Joker on film but he had so little dialogue that they can get away with it and improve him for his next appearance. There were a few moments where I thought he absolutely nailed it, so all is not lost for the future. It's just that every time he reeled me in, he then did something to make me think he was awful again.

I honestly thought he would be more detailed in his role, with some of the experimenting he did, instead of the style he used. It felt too extraneous at times, like with the announcing Harley Quinn. That simply wasn't needed. As for his voice, he sounded less like Ledger Joker in the movie itself, but yeah with some clips it did feel like he was taking some elements from how Ledger Joker sounded. I did hope he would have more of a range of laughter, but maybe he did in some of the deleted scenes.

 

[Assassin32]

She couldn't. Snyder mentioned that Robin was killed some ten years ago and Ayer said that Joker's metal teeth are result of Batman knocking his real ones out (and I think it's safe to assume he did that right after Joker killed Robin), and not just that Joker had those teeth when he first meets Harleen Quinzel, but he has a tattoo of dead Robin as well.

Does anyone have the quote where Ayer says this? I dismissed it as nothing more than a fan theory (albeit a cool one) after we got that first trailer and it appeared to my eye that the metal in his mouth was a cosmetic grill with windows that showed his enamel underneath.

 

[DeadStroke]

 

[hellblazer103]

"Oh, I'm not gonna kill ya... I'm just gonna hurt cha .... Really.... REALLY... (Sniffs)... Is that pizza?"

 

[A Necessary Evil]

All of that concept art is horrible. How hard would it have been to make a pale guy with green hair? ffs, DC

 

[LoganGambit87]

All of that concept art is horrible. How hard would it have been to make a pale guy with green hair? ffs, DC

are you serious right now complaining about unused concept art

 

[ironman29758]

Does anyone have the quote where Ayer says this? I dismissed it as nothing more than a fan theory (albeit a cool one) after we got that first trailer and it appeared to my eye that the metal in his mouth was a cosmetic grill with windows that showed his enamel underneath.

http://www.empireonline.com/movies/suicide-squad/suicide-squad-spoilers/

8. The Joker owes his ‘damaged’ tattoo to the Boy Wonder
"This is sort of my personal thing and maybe less about a larger connection. But Joker killed Robin and Batman basically smashes his teeth out and locks him up in Arkham Asylum. It’s in the asylum where Joker would have done the ‘damaged’ tattoo as a message to Batman saying, 'You’ve damaged me. I was so beautiful before and now you’ve destroyed my face.' That’s where the grill comes from."

12. Pink Floyd inspired a scene involving The Joker
"Yes, there’s some onesies (you can just see a baby onesie in the top right of the above picture). Some roses, some onesies, some piano keys, cell phones, laptops, obviously a lot of knives and weapons, a lot of empty bottles and some tied-off bags of god knows what. It was inspired a little bit from Pink Floyd, the movie when Pete goes insane in the hotel room."

14. Don’t call Jared Leto’s performance a cameo
"I think there was an expectation of what the film should have been. People really wanted more Joker and wanted him to be an A-plot component. And it’s funny how the critics call it a cameo but he has some fantastic sequences that are really important for the film. He really influences the journey quite a bit."

The problem is this... Harley meets Joker when he has the damaged tattoo and grills and she is listed as an accomplice to Robin's muder(a quick introduction line but still there), so this is a continuity hiccup, so early in the game. The only benefit is that we haven't actually seen what happened in the DCEU take of the Robin murder and how Batman reacted anyway (best time would either be the Batman movie or JL hinted in a flashback). Not to mention they could change Joker's look in a future movie, or flashback to him with a more classic Joker look.

This could have really helped with character development and fleshing out personalities, especially in BvS, instead of just hinting and vaguely talking about it.

Another problem I had was what did the Joker do in the movie, outside of the origin of Harley, that had any influence or was of any important to the journey in the final cut? It wasn't like the New 52 Suicide Squad#6-7 where Harley raised hell and fights the Squad to get to Joker's face nor was it the Death of the Family tie-in. If we saw more of what he was doing to see that led up to the "Buh-Bye" clip in the trailer and he did team up with Enhanctress or something, maybe. Even if him coming back in the plane scene, they argue and fight,which help Harley make up her mind to leave the Joker and his toxic influence (for good or until they make up somehow) and decides to help the Squad take down Enchantress.

But as he was in the final film, he was like a minor inconvenience to the overall plot. He was ultimately just there to flesh out Harley's backstory imo.

 

[Rowsdower!]

I guess an early concept art was for Joker to be Bruce's evil twin.

LOL, I thought the same thing.

 

[Assassin32]

http://www.empireonline.com/movies/suicide-squad/suicide-squad-spoilers/

The problem is this... Harley meets Joker when he has the damaged tattoo and grills and she is listed as an accomplice to Robin's muder(a quick introduction line but still there), so this is a continuity hiccup, so early in the game. The only benefit is that we haven't actually seen what happened in the DCEU take of the Robin murder and how Batman reacted anyway (best time would either be the Batman movie or JL hinted in a flashback). Not to mention they could change Joker's look in a future movie, or flashback to him with a more classic Joker look.

This could have really helped with character development and fleshing out personalities, especially in BvS, instead of just hinting and vaguely talking about it.

Another problem I had was what did the Joker do in the movie, outside of the origin of Harley, that had any influence or was of any important to the journey in the final cut? It wasn't like the New 52 Suicide Squad#6-7 where Harley raised hell and fights the Squad to get to Joker's face nor was it the Death of the Family tie-in. If we saw more of what he was doing to see that led up to the "Buh-Bye" clip in the trailer and he did team up with Enhanctress or something, maybe. Even if him coming back in the plane scene, they argue and fight,which help Harley make up her mind to leave the Joker and his toxic influence (for good or until they make up somehow) and decides to help the Squad take down Enchantress.

But as he was in the final film, he was like a minor inconvenience to the overall plot. He was ultimately just there to flesh out Harley's backstory imo.

Thanks. And what a mess.

 

[KillerWolf]

Does anyone have the quote where Ayer says this? I dismissed it as nothing more than a fan theory (albeit a cool one) after we got that first trailer and it appeared to my eye that the metal in his mouth was a cosmetic grill with windows that showed his enamel underneath.

This is the one I stumbled upon, at 0:54 or so:

[YT]watch?v=CVV7jgGadSo[/YT]

 

[Corysxj88]

OK, so about the whole Harley being an accomplice... To me this seems like a plot hole, but I am trying to think how they could fix this. I thought maybe Harley could have been an accomplice to Joker somehow maybe not directly, but Joker wouldn't have even known her at this point.... wow.
Wow this movie really was a mess.

 

[KillerWolf]

OK, so about the whole Harley being an accomplice... To me this seems like a plot hole, but I am trying to think how they could fix this. I thought maybe Harley could have been an accomplice to Joker somehow maybe not directly, but Joker wouldn't have even known her at this point.... wow.
Wow this movie really was a mess.

It's actually pretty easy to fix. Ignore what is written here:

If anyone actually said so in the film, it would be a whole different thing, but this can be disregarded fairly easily.

I'll just add, "no she's not" being written underneath in my mind.

 

[Predator jp]

maybe there are two dead Robins.

 

[Greens]

I doubt that.

 

[DeadStroke]

OK, so about the whole Harley being an accomplice... To me this seems like a plot hole, but I am trying to think how they could fix this. I thought maybe Harley could have been an accomplice to Joker somehow maybe not directly, but Joker wouldn't have even known her at this point.... wow.
Wow this movie really was a mess.

Its a simple fix. People don't know when exactly Robin was killed. They just know that Harley and Joker created a lot of chaos together the following years. They're together so much that people just assume "Harley Quinn" was around when he killed Robin.

It's like listening to band (that changes members over the years) and you think one member was actually with the group when a famous song came out.

Then you find out no they weren't they joined the band years after that hit song.

 

[Assassin32]

This is the one I stumbled upon, at 0:54 or so:

[YT]watch?v=CVV7jgGadSo[/YT]

I suppose it's just the bottom row that got knocked out, then? Because you can see plenty of the white enamel behind the grill on the top row. Unless those are supposed to be veneers behind the metal? But if that's the case, he doesn't actually need the grills to replace his teeth. I don't know. I'm done trying to understand what they're going for. Until it's actually addressed in a film, I'm not considering anything canon.

 

[tanita_mors]

some of them are probably not knocked out but broken or chipped. he would have to be hit by superman to lose all his teeth.

 

[KillerWolf]

I suppose it's just the bottom row that got knocked out, then? Because you can see plenty of the white enamel behind the grill on the top row. Unless those are supposed to be veneers behind the metal? But if that's the case, he doesn't actually need the grills to replace his teeth. I don't know. I'm done trying to understand what they're going for. Until it's actually addressed in a film, I'm not considering anything canon.

Wouldn't know... perhaps incisors and canines are only partially broken...?

Even if his teeth weren't knocked out by Batman, it changes nothing regarding the whole Harley as accomplice thing though, as there is a dead Robin tattoo on Joker's arm when he breaks from asylum.

By the way, I'm still pissed they didn't use this take of the "really, really bad" shot.