The Avengers Jeremy Renner is Hawkeye!

[BigThor]

In the comics perhaps, but from what little we've seen of Clint and from what we've seen of the MCU's SHIELD, this Government agency and it's Agents aren't afraid or worried about taking lives if the national security is at stake. I mean, Hawkeye even had that line in Thor where he asked "Should I just slow him down?" Implying that the alternative, to kill him outright, is a scenario he is well familiar with.

Yeah I don't understand this "HEROES DON'T KILL, HEROES DON'T KILL" nonesense, that works in the comics but in a film that's grounded in reality it's understandable for the heroes to protect the innocent at all costs.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I don't recall Cap having any problem with chucking a guy into a propellor or throwing a knife :P

 

[BigThor]

I don't recall Cap having any problem with chucking a guy into a propellor or throwing a knife :P

Yep, and I didn't have a problem with that either because he's a soldier and that's what they do.

 

[chris moore]

This technically doesn't apply because the movie, whoever the villains are, is undoubtedly going to be a war-like situation where killing is sanctioned. But in both Cap and IM where they kill bad guys, they are both in war situations (only for Tony it was just a war zone, not that he was sent as a member of the military to a war zone).

By and large though - do cops protect the innocent at all costs? Or do they only kill to protect as an absolute last resort? Did Hulk kill Blonsky in the end to protect everyone at all costs? Or because he had the power to keep him down without killing him, he realised killing him might remove the threat, but that didn't make it the only course of action.

If it's bank robbers, supervillains, terrorists, and it isn't a wartime/war zone situation, and the heroes are called in, they should and would use all means to bring them down without putting them down. Cap would smack a guy in the face with his shield - not break his neck with it and go "it's okay, I'm a soldier and he wold have killed people".


I would hope if Hawkeye and Widow were sent up against, say, Griffin, Crimson Dynamo, or even Powerman, they would refrain from lethal force unless said villain was in the employ of someone actively waging war against the US or a UN membership country

 

[BigThor]

If Hawkeye and Widow were sent up against, say, Griffin, Crimson Dynamo, or even Powerman, they would refrain from lethal force unless said villain was in the employ of someone actively waging war against the US or a UN membership country

Are you talking about Luke Cage, or is there a villain named Power Man?

 

[chris moore]

Goliath/Atlas nicked Luke's name when he first got his powers from Nefaria

 

[BigThor]

Goliath/Atlas nicked Luke's name when he first got his powers from Nefaria

Oh ok, thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Shadowlord X]

CAP didn't actually chuck the guy into the propeller. The guy flying the plane turned up and CAP was able to hold on and the other guy wasn't and he fell/was drawn into the propellor blade.

That said I think CAP was perfectly justified in efficiently killing those HYDRA agents on the Valkyrie superbomber who were going to engage in mass murder.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Chris Moore, if a Cop suspected a civillian had a bomb or explosive device strapped to them, do you think they wouldn't use lethal force to stop them?

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Chris Moore, if a Cop suspected a civillian had a bomb or explosive device strapped to them, do you think they wouldn't use lethal force to stop them?

If there is no other option than to kill, in order to protect the innocent or themsleves, of course. I mean, ShadowlordX already answered your question in the post preceding yours, that you replied to, when he spoke of the necessity of killing the hydra agent.


But generally, Super-heroes like that should not be killers, they are not anti-heroes, and Hawkeye was a government agent/soldier in Thor, if they had given him the kill order he would have done it, as Thor was essentially to them, a spy invading army territory with a possible intent to maim and kill.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Exactly. In normal crime fighting, they may not kill, but if it's a matter of global security, that's a different matter, especially if one is a government agent.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Exactly. In normal crime fighting, they may not kill, but if it's a matter of global security, that's a different matter, especially if one is a government agent.

Well, I think the rule applies both ways.
but i was also responding to this statement that you seemed to agree with at the top of the page...

Yeah I don't understand this "HEROES DON'T KILL, HEROES DON'T KILL" nonesense, that works in the comics but in a film that's grounded in reality it's understandable for the heroes to protect the innocent at all costs.

I don't recall Cap having any problem with chucking a guy into a propellor or throwing a knife

 

[Hunter Rider]

This whole discussion reminds me of why I love the Red Hood arc so much.

 

[lixdexia]

This whole discussion reminds me of why I love the Red Hood arc so much.

except for batman's cop out excuse at the end.

 

[cherokeesam]

Exactly. In normal crime fighting, they may not kill, but if it's a matter of global security, that's a different matter, especially if one is a government agent.

That's why superheroes have always walked that fine line between crimefighter and super-soldier. Just like super-villains walk that fine line between criminal and super-terrorist. The stakes change dramatically when a criminal is able to blow up a city, mind**** all its inhabitants, poison the water supply with his touch, etc.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

^^ This.

 

[Xeno]

Yeah I don't understand this "HEROES DON'T KILL, HEROES DON'T KILL" nonesense, that works in the comics but in a film that's grounded in reality it's understandable for the heroes to protect the innocent at all costs.

I completely agree with this. Before the MCU movies came out I was dead set against any of the heroes killing people. When I read that Iron Man killed those Ten Rings terrorists I was apprehensive because I really didn't wan to see him use lethal force. After seeing the movie I totally changed my mind. The writers were careful to portray a situation in which lethal force was not only justified, but necessary to save innocent lives. Killing works in that context, or in a wartime situation such as in CA: TFA.

The Avengers are also in the midst of a war so one would expect them to kill when and if necessary.

 

[chris moore]

Chris Moore, if a Cop suspected a civillian had a bomb or explosive device strapped to them, do you think they wouldn't use lethal force to stop them?

Surely a cop is more likely to only shoot if the guy is not responding to orders to "drop the trigger" or some such, and is actively about to press it. Even then, the shot should ideally be to prevent depressing the trigger without killing - Hawkeye would be capable of this, as therefore should take the non-lethal shot.

Remember, a dead terrorist can't tell you anything. A wounded one might know where the rest of his bomb wearing buddies are going to whip off their jackets.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Ideally sure, but how often does that happen? There have been plenty of incidents where a suspect was simply shot dead.

Now take it to the extreme of this fiction. Hawkeye isn't a Cop, he's a top agent of a clandestine government organisation. An organisation with license to kill, run by a man, Nick Fury, who has classically proven time and time again he will take any steps to get the job done, which a lot of the time means lethal force. Hawkeye isn't a peace peddler here, he's an agent who will follow orders. And these aren't suicide bombers, these are invaders from another planet who are causing mass destruction and loss of civilian life.

 

[SuperSAINT]

Think there's some new stuff here.

http://blog.moviefone.com/2011/12/16/jeremy-renner-avengers-scarlett-johansson-interview/

 

[Spider-Vader]

I really hope when he's talking about Hawkeye being inspired by the Ultimates, he JUST means the costume.

I need wise-ass cool 616 Hawkeye, not whiny Punisher-wannabe Ultimate Hawkeye.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I have a feeling it's 616 Hawkeye.

 

[Godzilla2000]

Well, my 69 year old mother saw Jeremy Renner in MI:4 and she says he's a hotty. He'd better watch out now.

 

[Xeno]

Well, my 69 year old mother saw Jeremy Renner in MI:4 and she says he's a hotty. He'd better watch out now.

Your mom has terrific taste.

 

[Herolee10]

Interesting thing to note is that Renner said in one of his latest interviews that there was only 2 scenes in the entire film that has the ENTIRE group there..and one of them is the NYC Park scene that we've seen photos of. If that's the case, I'm guessing that the other one is of when the Avengers are looking down at a defeated Loki like Tom had mentioned at a earlier expo.