Kroc1138 said:
It's quite simple. What I was getting at is that I think That a Composer who I find to be Ill suited for the Job of Scoring Superhero Movies. (Much less adapt a well loved score that two other talented composers did a bad job of adapting) That's Right I didn't Like his X2 score or his F4 score either, so what do you expect me to think when a Composer that I don't Like is going to score a movie of my Favorite Superhero and butcher On of My favorite scores? It's called lowered expectations. (Btw. Ottman did another adaptation of another famous score: Halloween. I thought He did a lousy job there as well which is another reason why I have my feelings)
Well, that's fine if you're prejudging someone on previous works. We all do it. But you need to take into consideration something which you already know; Ottman is basing his score around previously existing Williams material.
You apparently love Williams and hate Ottman's original work, so this score should be looking pretty good for you since it hits this balance.
Oh and why can't people have bad vibes anymore. Why is it that every bad preconception/"prediction" has to be shut down. (I don't mind mine being questioned) I feel that I (and SOME) have every reason to have bad feelings about certain things. I at least draw My conclusion based on what is preseted to me and go from there. Sometimes it's less. (surprisingly enough, I'm right at least 90% of the time)
It how I knew I would hate the Batman Begins Score b/c Hans Zimmer was on board. (not a fan of his)
It isn't your "vibe" I'm questioning. If you feel 'March of the Villains is dark, then I have to question your experience or perception.
IIRC, the only time it is used for Otis was when when He was walking to Luthor's Lair. All other time it is used to underscore Luthor's plot and in his Villainous acts which are carried out by Luthor and his Cronies. Hence the reason is called March of the Villains. Plural, thus meaning it is a general theme used to underscore all the primary acts of Villainy in the film. Since most of the major acts lead directly to Luthor it is his theme in the end since he is the mastermind. Williams does that from time to time with some of his other scores.
The FIRST time we see Otis, we hear the Villains theme.
The theme stops, and then starts back up shortly after when Otis is inside the tunnel going to Lex's lair, as he begins to eat.
The FIRST time we see Lex, we do NOT hear the Villains theme. We hear a small little incidental pull of strings.
The next time we hear the Villains theme is when we see Otis again after Lex and Co. have flipped the car to stop the military convoy. The theme continues as he makes his way to and climbs up the truck carrying the missle.
Next we see the Army men gathered around Ms Teschmacher who is acting as the distraction. The theme is basically atmospheric here without any real theme.
Again, we see Otis and hear the Villains theme as he inputs the code to the missile.
We see Lex again AND still NO Villains theme.
However, as Otis bounds down from the hill to regroup, we AGAIN hear the Villains theme, and it ends almost exactly as he gets into the van and we see Luthor.
The only time we hear anything close to the Villains march when Lex is onscreen is after he dumps Superman into the pool with the necklace of Kryptonite. The theme is slower, lower, and does what I call a 'Williams short-stop' where the theme doesn't finish but instead rolls into a slight downbeat flourish. He doesn't even get the complete motiff.
Now I may be missing some stuff, but I think the above is fairly accurate and complete.
The Imperial March (Darth Vader's Theme): He uses it to underscore the Empire and all of it's evil, but he uses it for one of the Root Villains in the movie Darth Vader.
Palpatine's theme: The same can be assumed for Palpatine's Theme. It underscored the Sith in some occasions in the Prequels but it was mainly Palpatine's theme in the end.
The Force Theme (Ben's theme): Again the same as the others. Used for two different aspects in each Film, the Usage of the Force and for Obi Wan Kenobi.
I have no argument about that, but it doesn't really relate because Williams focuses his motiff just about exclusively on Otis, as I have pointed out.
My response to this is related to my post above. Just like how Williams uses one theme for more person/entity he did the same here.
For Otis he used in in a more comical context. For Luthor, on the other hand, he used in a darker more devious manner. Any fan of William would know he does this from time to time.
My first soundtrack was Williams. I have most of his stuff. Of course I know this. But any Williams fan would also know that he sometimes deviates from his formula and likes to mix it up occasionally.
Your right. When put in it's Proper Context (when Applied to Luthor) it's certainly not very Lighthearted or comical at all. Such example: When Luthor Tosses Superman into hi Pool there is a Menacing Rendition of Luthor's Theme Playing. (sort of a "I have You where I want You" Motif) Plus there are numerous time when there are string variants of the Villain March. (I.e Luthor Killing the Cop with the Train)
When Lex kills the cop, you do not hear a Villains theme. You pretty much just hear an unrelated theme of peril that has no real part of the Villians theme in it nor is it a part of the Villains theme.
I've listened to The Complete Superman Score Way too many times. What you are forgetting when you listen to the score or when watching the movie is the context of theme's usage.
No, I'm not forgetting anything. When you say the Villains theme is for Luthor, I disagree. It's almost completely used for Otis and the campier, more comedic moments, just as I disagree when you say the theme itself is dark and stealthy. It is not, and is about 95% used in campy moments.
I'm not convinced. He's still talking out of his ass in that little commentary.
What exactly did he say to make you think that?
