The Last Jedi Mark Hamill as Luke Skywalker (VIII)

[DarthSkywalker]

I could rehash the long long list of problems with the movie but you can find them listed elsewhere on these boards or on YouTube.

As far as Luke, they made him into a loser that almost murdered his sleeping nephew and never left his little island for the entire new trilogy he pathetically ran off to while letting the universe get conquered and all his loved ones die.

I'm with Hamill, that's not Luke

Hamill seems quite pleased with how The Last Jedi ended up. Also you have quite a few inaccuraies in how TLJ and Luke's story play out.

 

[Herolee10]

I could rehash the long long list of problems with the movie but you can find them listed elsewhere on these boards or on YouTube.

As far as Luke, they made him into a loser that almost murdered his sleeping nephew and never left his little island for the entire new trilogy he pathetically ran off to while letting the universe get conquered and all his loved ones die.

I'm with Hamill, that's not Luke

Honestly, I still believe that Luke's character was the victim of Kathleen's political agenda and Rian's desire to tell a new story while going against fan expectations.

I still find it depressing to think that those two literally destroyed the Skywalker legend, a legacy that has withstood for 40 years, with one film.

And in hindsight, the character of Luke Skywalker will now be remembered as one who really didn't accomplish anything in the long run. All he did was just return things back to the status quo where the light side overcame the dark side via his victory against Vader and Emperor before allowing the dark side to once again gain dominance with his failure and unwillingness to do anything about Kylo and Snoke.

Worst of all is that Kylo is what's left of the Skywalker legacy and once he goes, he'll leave that good name forever shattered and irredeemable.

 

[Mjölnir]

Honestly, I still believe that Luke's character was the victim of Kathleen's political agenda and Rian's desire to tell a new story while going against fan expectations.

I still find it depressing to think that those two literally destroyed the Skywalker legend, a legacy that has withstood for 40 years, with one film.

And in hindsight, the character of Luke Skywalker will now be remembered as one who really didn't accomplish anything in the long run. All he did was just return things back to the status quo where the light side overcame the dark side via his victory against Vader and Emperor before allowing the dark side to once again gain dominance with his failure and unwillingness to do anything about Kylo and Snoke.

Worst of all is that Kylo is what's left of the Skywalker legacy and once he goes, he'll leave that good name forever shattered and irredeemable.

I agree, Luke's legacy is completely torn apart, just like the struggle of the Rebellion is also just a temporary victory.

Luke accomplished nothing other than to make the dark side users that threaten to rule the galaxy not call themselves Sith, which seems to have no effect other than in name. While it doesn't fully work logically TLJ even tries to make it so he helped set up the new Vader/Sidious duo.

Just like with the Rebellion who's huge climactic victory just was a temporary cease fire until the exact same conflict blows up again, and even here they really only managed to make the Empire change name.

It's interesting how many that actually like how the new trilogy removes the worth and impact of what happened before. I can only imagine what, for example, Tolkien fans would say if they made a sequel trilogy to LotR that treated the legacy of LotR the way the new SW trilogy does the OT.

I really hope Amazon isn't planning on something like that for their upcoming LotR show. t:

 

[Spider-Fan]

Bad enough? In what sense?

I am a life long Luke Skywalker fan. He is my favorite character in anything. I don't know if I ever loved him more then TLJ.

Agreed. Luke has always been my favorite Star Wars character. I can see why people didn't like his portrayal here, as it definitely was not what people expected. But, I find his journey in this film inspiring. Luke went to a dark place and lost all hope, only to rise again like a phoenix. I think people are focusing too much on where Luke begins the story and not where he ends. This film was about overcoming the failures of the past to move forward, and no character exemplified this more than Luke. Not to mention Mark Hamill turned out possibly the performance of his career.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Where and how Luke ends is where a lot of people have problems with his story in TLJ.

 

[danoyse]

I could rehash the long long list of problems with the movie but you can find them listed elsewhere on these boards or on YouTube.

As far as Luke, they made him into a loser that almost murdered his sleeping nephew and never left his little island for the entire new trilogy he pathetically ran off to while letting the universe get conquered and all his loved ones die.

I'm with Hamill, that's not Luke

I saw Mark Hamill last week, and he’s not really like that about TLJ at all. He actually looks pretty relieved when he doesn’t need to keep reiterating that.

He even said that when he looks back on projects in his career that failed, they were the same lessons as Luke learned in TLJ - he said he leaned something from every project that wasn’t a hit.

 

[Adhesive Boy]

Where and how Luke ends is where a lot of people have problems with his story in TLJ.

Definitely. The whole thing starts in an entirely illogical place and it ends in a place where nothing is redeemed and it just destroys the power of the legacy of the OT.

I can't blame Hamill since he acted the role well, but I don't see any saving graces in the writing.

 

[Iceman]

Definitely. The whole thing starts in an entirely illogical place and it ends in a place where nothing is redeemed and it just destroys the power of the legacy of the OT.

I can't blame Hamill since he acted the role well, but I don't see any saving graces in the writing.

Some things are better left to the imagination.

 

[BatLobster]

To me, what they did with Luke was the ultimate way to honor him.

He could have easily just been there as window dressing, with his legendary/hero status taken for granted and just passing the torch in the way we'd all envisioned/expected when the ST was announced.

Instead, they delivered a big, emotional arc where he reclaims his role as hero and legend and goes out with a nonviolent, awe-inspiring victory, inspiring the galaxy in the process. There's nothing more Jedi-like then the way Luke's story concluded in this film. And he is the namesake of the movie. That's powerful stuff, made all the more powerful BECAUSE this is Luke freakin' Skywalker.

To me the movie was a giant love letter to Luke. That's just how I see it. I understand why people didn't care for it, but for me his arc worked like gangbusters and for everyone saying that this new movie was all about sacrificing the old for the sake of the new...well, I highly disagree for the reasons above. We all knew this trilogy would deal with passing the torch, but we didn't know that Luke would have such a compelling emotional journey in the process. That's not something they had to do, but they took the risk and went for it. For me, it payed off and I'll always appreciate it for that.

 

[Spider-Fan]

To me, what they did with Luke was the ultimate way to honor him.

He could have easily just been there as window dressing, with his legendary/hero status taken for granted and just passing the torch in the way we'd all envisioned/expected when the ST was announced.

Instead, they delivered a big, emotional arc where he reclaims his role as hero and legend and goes out with a nonviolent, awe-inspiring victory, inspiring the galaxy in the process. There's nothing more Jedi-like then the way Luke's story concluded in this film. And he is the namesake of the movie. That's powerful stuff, made all the more powerful BECAUSE this Luke freakin' Skywalker.

To me the movie was a giant love letter to Luke. That's just how I see it. I understand why people didn't care for it, but for me his arc worked like gangbusters and for everyone saying that this new movie was all about sacrificing the old for the sake of the new...well, I highly disagree for the reasons above. We all knew this trilogy would deal with passing the torch, but we didn't know that Luke would have such a compelling emotional journey in the process. That's not something they had to do, but they took the risk and went for it. For me, it payed off and I'll always appreciate it for that.

100% agreed. I actually liked what they did with Luke more than I did Han, which says something because while I am critical on many things with TFA, Han was a major bright spot.

 

[Mjölnir]

To me, what they did with Luke was the ultimate way to honor him.

He could have easily just been there as window dressing, with his legendary/hero status taken for granted and just passing the torch in the way we'd all envisioned/expected when the ST was announced.

Instead, they delivered a big, emotional arc where he reclaims his role as hero and legend and goes out with a nonviolent, awe-inspiring victory, inspiring the galaxy in the process. There's nothing more Jedi-like then the way Luke's story concluded in this film. And he is the namesake of the movie. That's powerful stuff, made all the more powerful BECAUSE this is Luke freakin' Skywalker.

To me the movie was a giant love letter to Luke. That's just how I see it. I understand why people didn't care for it, but for me his arc worked like gangbusters and for everyone saying that this new movie was all about sacrificing the old for the sake of the new...well, I highly disagree for the reasons above. We all knew this trilogy would deal with passing the torch, but we didn't know that Luke would have such a compelling emotional journey in the process. That's not something they had to do, but they took the risk and went for it. For me, it payed off and I'll always appreciate it for that.

If there's nothing more Jedi-like than what Luke did at the end I think it's diminished by that everything he did before that was about as unworthy of a Jedi as you could be. Especially since they couldn't even be bothered to make the reason for his fall believable for his character.

 

[Brother Jack]

Honestly, I still believe that Luke's character was the victim of Kathleen's political agenda and Rian's desire to tell a new story while going against fan expectations.

That's some Alex Jones-level conspiratorial thinking.

I still find it depressing to think that those two literally destroyed the Skywalker legend, a legacy that has withstood for 40 years, with one film.

And in hindsight, the character of Luke Skywalker will now be remembered as one who really didn't accomplish anything in the long run. All he did was just return things back to the status quo where the light side overcame the dark side via his victory against Vader and Emperor before allowing the dark side to once again gain dominance with his failure and unwillingness to do anything about Kylo and Snoke.

The ending of the movie is Luke personifying his legend and saving the day. We see the impact of his legacy through the kids in the final scene, implying that he has inspired an entire generation of people, including force adepts, to take up the mantle of hero/Jedi. On a meta level it's speaking to every Star Wars fan that ever played with a Luke Skywalker action figure, retelling the legend and being inspired by it. I don't see at all how that's disrespectful to Luke. However you feel about it, within the canon he will be remembered as a hero.

 

[Mjölnir]

The ending of the movie is Luke personifying his legend and saving the day. We see the impact of his legacy through the kids in the final scene, implying that he has inspired an entire generation of people, including force adepts, to take up the mantle of hero/Jedi. On a meta level it's speaking to every Star Wars fan that ever played with a Luke Skywalker action figure, retelling the legend and being inspired by it. I don't see at all how that's disrespectful to Luke. However you feel about it, within the canon he will be remembered as a hero.

That legend thing is so weird. He should already be as big of a legend as he could ever be, after overthrowing the Sith and being instrumental in the defeat of the Empire (or well, in the temporary setback of the Empire as it turned out, but anyway...). He would have become a hero of the new Republic and he'd be among the most famous people in the galaxy.

That he shows up and saves a handful of people by distraction many years later, only to never be seen again after confronting Kylo Ren, is in no way even remotely significant enough to compare to his previous deed. It does look like Kylo Ren killed him, as he's never seen again, and there's only a handful of people to spread the story that can't be verified. Yet we're to think that only now people really started to be inspired by the legend of Luke? To me that's pretty laughable.

It seems most logical that no one would believe it, with reasoning like that if Luke confronted Kylo Ren then he'd defeat him. The second most logical thing is that if people believe it happened they'd be even more afraid of Kylo since he confronted Luke and is still around while Luke is never seen again.

 

[Spider-Fan]

That legend thing is so weird. He should already be as big of a legend as he could ever be, after overthrowing the Sith and being instrumental in the defeat of the Empire (or well, in the temporary setback of the Empire as it turned out, but anyway...). He would have become a hero of the new Republic and he'd be among the most famous people in the galaxy.

That he shows up and saves a handful of people by distraction many years later, only to never be seen again after confronting Kylo Ren, is in no way even remotely significant enough to compare to his previous deed. It does look like Kylo Ren killed him, as he's never seen again, and there's only a handful of people to spread the story that can't be verified. Yet we're to think that only now people really started to be inspired by the legend of Luke? To me that's pretty laughable.

It seems most logical that no one would believe it, with reasoning like that if Luke confronted Kylo Ren then he'd defeat him. The second most logical thing is that if people believe it happened they'd be even more afraid of Kylo since he confronted Luke and is still around while Luke is never seen again.

TFA already established this kind of, though. In TFA, Rey seems to think Luke was maybe not even real like some kind of myth. This is an element TLJ had to build off of.

 

[danoyse]

To me, what they did with Luke was the ultimate way to honor him.

He could have easily just been there as window dressing, with his legendary/hero status taken for granted and just passing the torch in the way we'd all envisioned/expected when the ST was announced.

Instead, they delivered a big, emotional arc where he reclaims his role as hero and legend and goes out with a nonviolent, awe-inspiring victory, inspiring the galaxy in the process. There's nothing more Jedi-like then the way Luke's story concluded in this film. And he is the namesake of the movie. That's powerful stuff, made all the more powerful BECAUSE this is Luke freakin' Skywalker.

To me the movie was a giant love letter to Luke. That's just how I see it. I understand why people didn't care for it, but for me his arc worked like gangbusters and for everyone saying that this new movie was all about sacrificing the old for the sake of the new...well, I highly disagree for the reasons above. We all knew this trilogy would deal with passing the torch, but we didn't know that Luke would have such a compelling emotional journey in the process. That's not something they had to do, but they took the risk and went for it. For me, it payed off and I'll always appreciate it for that.

It was hard to watch Luke brought so low, but it made the story so much more satisfying watching him learn to find the way back, and bringing everything we learned going back to the original trilogy about the ways of the Force. I thought it was such a tribute to the soul of what the original trilogy was.

 

[Spider-Fan]

It was hard to watch Luke brought so low, but it made the story so much more satisfying watching him learn to find the way back, and bringing everything we learned going back to the original trilogy about the ways of the Force. I thought it was such a tribute to the soul of what the original trilogy was.

Agreed. But, the payoff of this film doesn't work unless Luke is as low as he could be. Intentionally, all the main characters are being challenged and facing the worst things they could be facing at this point in their lives. Seeing Luke overcome this type of adversity is what makes the film work! It just falls flat without it.

Remember the lesson Master Yoda teaches about failure

 

[danoyse]

Agreed. But, the payoff of this film doesn't work unless Luke is as low as he could be. Intentionally, all the main characters are being challenged and facing the worst things they could be facing at this point in their lives. Seeing Luke overcome this type of adversity is what makes the film work! It just falls flat without it.

Remember the lesson Master Yoda teaches about failure

Yep. It could have been a big lightsaber fight, or Luke pulling Star Destroyers out of the sky, and I’m sure they would have used all of the Disney magic at their disposal to make that look cool, but at the end of the day, that’s a special effect. It’s not a story.

A long time ago, Luke managed to pull a good man out of the monster he’d become because he was able to see a trace of good left in him. Years later, he looked at what became of his sister’s child and couldn’t find anything to save because there just wasn’t a single trace of good in him. And it broke him. Of course it did. I can’t imagine anyone losing their way over a realization like that more than I can imagine someone as kind-hearted as Luke Skywalker would.

That’s what made the Yoda scene so important. Yeah, he messed up. But you’re supposed to learn from that, not give up over it. Pass on your failures as much as you pass on your strengths.

It’s why I don’t want any redemption for Kylo. I think Luke was right about him all along.

 

[Mjölnir]

TFA already established this kind of, though. In TFA, Rey seems to think Luke was maybe not even real like some kind of myth. This is an element TLJ had to build off of.

First of all that doesn't really change anything since the new rumor that's spreading around does in no way confirm that Luke exists. No one has seen him before or after the event, and only a small handful of people are spreading the rumor. People must be spreading false Luke stories all the time.

As for the matter of that Luke is seen as a myth in TFA, that's even dumber than that the galaxy didn't remember the Jedi in ANH. Back then you at least have the explanation that the Empire was actively destroying the reputation of the Jedi, erasing things about them and spreading propaganda that they were charlatans that tricked people into that they had super powers. That's a very weak explanation, but it's more than nothing.

In TFA the Republic is still the dominant ruling body so why would anyone not think Luke is real? There's no legitimate excuse for that at all. It would be better to just scratch Rey off as insanely clueless for being on a remote desert planet. But then again it might be off limits to give her any significant negative traits.

As for TLJ having to build off of it, it didn't build on plenty of things that actually made sense so why would Rian feel forced to make a big deal out of something that doesn't make sense?

 

[Spider-Fan]

First of all that doesn't really change anything since the new rumor that's spreading around does in no way confirm that Luke exists. No one has seen him before or after the event, and only a small handful of people are spreading the rumor. People must be spreading false Luke stories all the time.

As for the matter of that Luke is seen as a myth in TFA, that's even dumber than that the galaxy didn't remember the Jedi in ANH. Back then you at least have the explanation that the Empire was actively destroying the reputation of the Jedi, erasing things about them and spreading propaganda that they were charlatans that tricked people into that they had super powers. That's a very weak explanation, but it's more than nothing.

In TFA the Republic is still the dominant ruling body so why would anyone not think Luke is real? There's no legitimate excuse for that at all. It would be better to just scratch Rey off as insanely clueless for being on a remote desert planet. But then again it might be off limits to give her any significant negative traits.

As for TLJ having to build off of it, it didn't build on plenty of things that actually made sense so why would Rian feel forced to make a big deal out of something that doesn't make sense?

Evidently they don't:

Han Solo: A lot of rumors. Stories. People that knew him best think he went looking for the first Jedi temple.
Rey: The Jedi were real?
Han Solo: I used to wonder about that myself. Thought it was a bunch of mumbo-jumbo. A magical power holding together good and evil, the dark side and the light. Crazy thing is... it's true. The Force. The Jedi... All of it... It's all true.

Rey says it like she thought it was myth. Again, I didn't write the movie. But, that makes it canon.

 

[danoyse]

Evidently they don't:

Han Solo: A lot of rumors. Stories. People that knew him best think he went looking for the first Jedi temple.
Rey: The Jedi were real?
Han Solo: I used to wonder about that myself. Thought it was a bunch of mumbo-jumbo. A magical power holding together good and evil, the dark side and the light. Crazy thing is... it's true. The Force. The Jedi... All of it... It's all true.

Rey says it like she thought it was myth. Again, I didn't right the movie. But, that makes it canon.

It makes sense. When you look back at the original movie, Luke didn’t even know what the Force was. And he was born while the Jedi Order was being killed off.

You can imagine that a kid born upwards of 50 years after the Clone Wars, growing up on a junkyard planet even more desolate than Tatooine with no Jedi around would grow up thinking the Jedi, and even Luke, were myths.

 

[Spider-Fan]

It makes sense. When you look back at the original movie, Luke didn’t even know what the Force was. And he was born while the Jedi Order was being killed off.

You can imagine that a kid born upwards of 50 years after the Clone Wars, growing up on a junkyard planet even more desolate than Tatooine with no Jedi around would grow up thinking the Jedi, and even Luke, were myths.

That is true. The Jedi in the OT were thought to be an outdated religion largely (which they mocked Vader about), and we don't know how wide spread Luke's new Jedi order was. That's never really explained.

 

[C. Lee]

Me, my wife, and daughter watched TLJ last night. For me that was my 6th time, my daughter's 5th, and my wife's first. My wife loved it. She's been a STAR WARS fan since she first saw it at 7 years old. She had no problem with Luke's storyline. She said she thought that Hamill did a fantastic job.

 

[BatLobster]

That is true. The Jedi in the OT were thought to be an outdated religion largely (which they mocked Vader about), and we don't know how wide spread Luke's new Jedi order was. That's never really explained.

Yep, and just because the Republic was reestablished =/= the Jedi were. Luke's attempt that rebuilding them never gets off the ground, obviously.

It's clear in TFA that people already in the fight like Finn and Poe know Luke is real, but to outsiders like Rey it's more like a fairy tale they grew up with (part of the meta aspect of this new trilogy).

Luke saving the resistance at the end is meant to be the spark the inspires every corner of the galaxy, exemplified by broom boy. And no, I don't buy this "people would've thought Kylo killed Luke" thing for a second. He vanishes into thin air, Kylo is clearly furious...and most importantly the surviving resistance members that Luke protected are the ones spreading the story. Not to mention all those AT-AT blasts he emerges from unscathed. No matter what happened after that point, Luke's legend would be spread. The fact that Luke actually was able to force project himself across the galaxy just makes it all the more mythic for us, the audience.

It feels weird to find myself having to defend why I think this ending works, when it honestly just feels so right and makes so much sense to me, just purely on a gut level. It works on every level. On a character level. On a film level. On a saga level. Even on a "philosophy of the Jedi" level. It is such a no-brainer. The only argument I can understand is wishing that Luke had gotten this ending in IX instead of VIII, but personally I think an ending with more closure was needed after VII ended on such a blatant tease.

And to be fair, I can also understand people who appreciated what the ending was going for but wish they didn't have to experience the first part of Luke's arc to get there. What I have to call out is when people argue that the first part of his arc was the wrong choice, and then also start trying to tear apart the ending too by arguing that the legend would've have spread. It's being pedantic, and it really doesn't hold up. As far as the galaxy is concerned, an aging Jedi- who was already the stuff of myths, came back at the Resistance's darkest hour and stood down the First Order with just his laser sword. That alone really says it all.

 

[Mjölnir]

Evidently they don't:

Han Solo: A lot of rumors. Stories. People that knew him best think he went looking for the first Jedi temple.
Rey: The Jedi were real?
Han Solo: I used to wonder about that myself. Thought it was a bunch of mumbo-jumbo. A magical power holding together good and evil, the dark side and the light. Crazy thing is... it's true. The Force. The Jedi... All of it... It's all true.

Rey says it like she thought it was myth. Again, I didn't write the movie. But, that makes it canon.

I haven't questioned that it's canon, I've just pointed out that it makes no sense. When the OT first came out it worked, as we didn't have any information that contradicted it, but then Lucas added things that made it make much less sense, but still more than that Luke would have been forgotten during the reign of the new Republic.

Just because it's canon doesn't mean that anyone has to think it's good. Just like with how Greedo now shot first.

 

[Brother Jack]

It feels weird to find myself having to defend why I think this ending works, when it honestly just feels so right and makes so much sense to me, just purely on a gut level. It works on every level. On a character level. On a film level. On a saga level. Even on a "philosophy of the Jedi" level. It is such a no-brainer. The only argument I can understand is wishing that Luke had gotten this ending in IX instead of VIII, but personally I think an ending with more closure was needed after VII ended on such a blatant tease.

I think the fact that he dies right after that trips up some people, which I understand. I love the ending, but there is some serious emotional whiplash that takes place when you see Luke on Crait and think he might die, get reassured that he's safe when you see him actually still on Ahch-To, and then see him die anyway.