Mass Effect 3

[Master Chief]

so I ake it that I'll love this sniper rifle as much as my incisor?

Depends on how accurate you are, but it pretty much kills anything in one shot.

Spoiler

Not saying I believe it, bub, nor am I saying that it's concrete. Just saying it makes sense and that there's more logic to it than just simple "fan theory" you make it out to be.

Yuuuup.

 

[zenith16]

Depends on how accurate you are, but it pretty much kills anything in one shot.

oh I'm deadly accurate. the Incisor sniper rifle used three bullets in on shot though it was the force shield killer, from ME2. I'll check this new one out though.

 

[smashmode]

Can we create a new thread titled ME 3 Ending Spoilers, so we can debate back and forth without black boxes and spoiler texts?

 

[taskmaster]

Spoiler

I went with control even though just minutes before Shepard was telling TIM that they couldn't be controlled lmao, but anyway Shepard is special. Why did they want his body? I don't know what their goal is, I'm saying it's something I can see the reapers doing. AND it offers an explanation for a lot of problems with the ending, something nobody who likes them has been able to do.

The indoctrination theory says that Shepard isn't really taking control, or synthesizing the galaxy, or destroying the reapers. He's fighting indoctrination in his head through these choices. If you give in to anything but destroy your will to fight is lost and they own Shepard.

Spoiler

But there was a reason that TIM couldn't control the reapers. It was because he was indoctrinated. Lay out your problems with the ending, I'd like to see if I could argue against them. The thing about EDI stepping off the Normandy after the destroy ending only happens if you have her in your squad before the ending, meaning they probably just put those models in regardless of the ending you picked. It was lazy on the devs part but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a plot hole.

 

[Soapy]

Can we create a new thread titled ME 3 Ending Spoilers, so we can debate back and forth without black boxes and spoiler texts?

Knock yourself out.

 

[Reek]

yea adrenaline rush, widow +inferno ammo =

 

[taskmaster]

Spoiler

Not saying I believe it, bub, nor am I saying that it's concrete. Just saying it makes sense and that there's more logic to it than just simple "fan theory" you make it out to be.

Spoiler

This implies that I said that fan theories couldn't be logical, which I never said. There are plenty of fan theories that makes sense. All of Quentin Tarantino's movies taking place in the same alternate timeline for instance. It's a simple fan theory just based on the fact that it isn't included in the actual story of Mass Effect. People are presenting this indoctrination ending simply because they don't like what Bioware has done and think that it should be the true ending. Not everyone likes the indoctrination angle. There are better ways to resolve the story rather than something that amounts to "It was all a dream."

 

[Balthus Dire]

Spoiler

But there was a reason that TIM couldn't control the reapers. It was because he was indoctrinated. Lay out your problems with the ending, I'd like to see if I could argue against them. The thing about EDI stepping off the Normandy after the destroy ending only happens if you have her in your squad before the ending, meaning they probably just put those models in regardless of the ending you picked. It was lazy on the devs part but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a plot hole.

Spoiler

If the indoctrination ending turns out to be true, then it doesn't matter if the Catalyst told you that TIM couldn't control the Reapers, because everything the Catalyst told you would be total bull***** because of the indoctrination.

The entire point of the indoctrinated ending is that the Reapers were trying to trick you into not destroying them through lying to and manipulating you. If you accept what the Catalyst says and chose either Synthesis or Control, you are therefore accepting indoctrination and you lose. If you defy the Catalyst's lies and choose Destroy, you (assumed) wake up on earth and have beat indoctrination, thus beginning the presumed DLC.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Spoiler

This implies that I said that fan theories couldn't be logical, which I never said. There are plenty of fan theories that makes sense. All of Quentin Tarantino's movies taking place in the same alternate timeline for instance. It's a simple fan theory just based on the fact that it isn't included in the actual story of Mass Effect. People are presenting this indoctrination ending simply because they don't like what Bioware has done and think that it should be the true ending. Not everyone likes the indoctrination angle. There are better ways to resolve the story rather than something that amounts to "It was all a dream."

Spoiler

The indoctrination story may or may not have come about through wishful thinking, but there are TONS of hints that make it seem entirely plausible whether you love the ending or hate it. Tons of things that aren't even reaching arguments, but rather real facts that are in the game already that point to indoctrination.

You seem to be under the assumption that if Bioware went with indoctrination it would be to please fans, but many argue that indoctrination was their intention all along and that they're attempting to pull off the biggest Houdini in videogame history.

 

[Master Chief]

Spoiler

But there was a reason that TIM couldn't control the reapers. It was because he was indoctrinated. Lay out your problems with the ending, I'd like to see if I could argue against them. The thing about EDI stepping off the Normandy after the destroy ending only happens if you have her in your squad before the ending, meaning they probably just put those models in regardless of the ending you picked. It was lazy on the devs part but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a plot hole.

Spoiler

Why is it in slow motion, just as Shepard's dreams are?
Why is Anderson not battle damaged?
How did TIM get there?
Why are there shadows, similar to the increasing shadow figures from Shepard' dreams, forming around the borders of the screen?
Why is the kid that haunts Shepard the catalyst?
Why is the Normandy so far from Earth?
Why did Javik exit the Normandy after Joker and Ashley when I brought him with me and he was supposedly killed in Harbinger's attack?
Why is there a secret 20 second clip where Shepard is covered in rubble and takes a breath? <-- Only available if you destroy.

I'm not willing to accept "laziness" as an excuse, not when we're dealing with Bioware. I can't accept that these people are simply lazy when it comes to the last 10 minutes of a beautifully written story. If anything, these inconsistencies are extra hints to tell the player something isn't right. And if that's not enough, it's revealed that the stargazer is telling this story to a kid and he doesn't remember all the details.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

I wish someone would of told me the MP progress goes directly to your overall Galaxy at War progress. I beat the game before i tried the MP with a galaxy readiness at like 51%. In like 2 hours of MP I went to 94%, haha.

 

[taskmaster]

Spoiler

If the indoctrination ending turns out to be true, then it doesn't matter if the Catalyst told you that TIM couldn't control the Reapers, because everything the Catalyst told you would be total bull***** because of the indoctrination.

The entire point of the indoctrinated ending is that the Reapers were trying to trick you into not destroying them through lying to and manipulating you. If you accept what the Catalyst says and chose either Synthesis or Control, you are therefore accepting indoctrination and you lose. If you defy the Catalyst's lies and choose Destroy, you (assumed) wake up on earth and have beat indoctrination, thus beginning the presumed DLC.

Spoiler

And you don't see how the vast majority of players would have a problem with that? First of all, the DLC wouldn't be free. Second of all, who wants to play a game where even if you pick the morally right choices you lose? Assuming there's a pretty even split of players who choose each ending that's 2/3's of your audience that you're telling through paid DLC that the galaxy is doomed because of something you couldn't have possibly seen through the regular gameplay. You can say that there were hints of being indoctrinated but being hinted at is not enough for a game that people have sunk 80+ hours in. There was no scene where a character suggested that Shepard was indoctrinated.

 

[zenith16]

I wish someone would of told me the MP progress goes directly to your overall Galaxy at War progress. I beat the game before i tried the MP with a galaxy readiness at like 51%. In like 2 hours of MP I went to 94%, haha.

it was in the stuff/artcles I posted pat. not sure how you missed it. but I made sure it was there.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

Spoiler

. And if that's not enough, it's revealed that the stargazer is telling this story to a kid and he doesn't remember all the details.

[BLACKOUT]Because that individual is retelling a story that happened generations ago? That was my take on that scene anyway.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Master Chief]

I wish someone would of told me the MP progress goes directly to your overall Galaxy at War progress. I beat the game before i tried the MP with a galaxy readiness at like 51%. In like 2 hours of MP I went to 94%, haha.

Yeah it shoots up pretty fast, you only need to finish like 14 games. When you're at 100% you get a 5% bonus to XP earned in multiplayer.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

it was in the stuff I posted pat. not sure how you missed it. but I made sure itwas there.

Completely missed it man. I kinda skimmed over anything MP related as i wasn't that interested in it, until i actually started playing it. I didn't even know what the MP consisted of until i beat the game and actually tried it.

 

[zenith16]

Completely missed it man. I kinda skimmed over anything MP related as i wasn't that interested in it, until i actually started playing it. I didn't even know what the MP consisted of until i beat the game and actually tried it.

lol next time ask me to pm you of any important stuff you might be interest that you might have missed then. I guess.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Spoiler

And you don't see how the vast majority of players would have a problem with that? First of all, the DLC wouldn't be free. Second of all, who wants to play a game where even if you pick the morally right choices you lose? Assuming there's a pretty even split of players who choose each ending that's 2/3's of your audience that you're telling through paid DLC that the galaxy is doomed because of something you couldn't have possibly seen through the regular gameplay. You can say that there were hints of being indoctrinated but being hinted at is not enough for a game that people have sunk 80+ hours in. There was no scene where a character suggested that Shepard was indoctrinated.

Spoiler

Well, wouldn't it kind of defeat the purpose of a complete twist ending if a character said "Oh hey, Shep...maybe you're indoctrinated??" The subtle hints are precisely why it would be so damn brilliant if it ended up being true.

Also, I never once said "paid" DLC. I said DLC. I have stated numerous times that I think it would be totally bogus if a proposed "true ending" DLC cost anything. If it wasn't free, it would be even worse. So, yeah.

Also, you're kind of being hypocritical, because you're essentially saying the indoctrination would piss off a huge majority of players so Bioware shouldn't do it, but meanwhile there's an equal majority just as pissed with the ending Bioware already gave. So, what to do, then? Can't please everyone, right? So perhaps the best solution (if indoctrination is true) would be to release the "true ending" DLC for free and if you want to accept your default ending as default, simply don't download the DLC. Problem solved for everyone!!!!

 

[taskmaster]

Spoiler

Why is it in slow motion, just as Shepard's dreams are?
It's the final minutes of a long journey they're going to drag it out.
Why is Anderson not battle damaged?
He was, not as badly as Shepard but he was injured.
How did TIM get there?
He got there after the mission where you assault his base. He found out that the Citadel was the Catalyst before Shepard and went to control the Reapers.
Why are there shadows, similar to the increasing shadow figures from Shepard' dreams, forming around the borders of the screen?
I had assumed that those were the bodies of all the people on the Citadel just in shadow because it had gone dark.
Why is the kid that haunts Shepard the catalyst?
It's exactly like what Shepard saw while in the Geth consciousness. The Catalyst presented itself as something Shepard could understand. The child had been on his mind. If Javik had been there it would have been a Prothean.
Why is the Normandy so far from Earth?
Near as I can tell Joker is trying to avoid the blast from the Citadel. He wouldn't know that it could hurt him or the crew.
Why did Javik exit the Normandy after Joker and Ashley when I brought him with me and he was supposedly killed in Harbinger's attack?
Those people weren't killed in Harbinger's attack.
Why is there a secret 20 second clip where Shepard is covered in rubble and takes a breath? <-- Only available if you destroy.
Because he survives his syntheics being destroyed, you only get this if your Effective Military Strength is over 4000, otherwise he dies.

I'm not willing to accept "laziness" as an excuse, not when we're dealing with Bioware. I can't accept that these people are simply lazy when it comes to the last 10 minutes of a beautifully written story. If anything, these inconsistencies are extra hints to tell the player something isn't right. And if that's not enough, it's revealed that the stargazer is telling this story to a kid and he doesn't remember all the details.

I answered the questions in Italics under each other them.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Your answers are full of holes, just like the ending. :P

 

[taskmaster]

Spoiler

Well, wouldn't it kind of defeat the purpose of a complete twist ending if a character said "Oh hey, Shep...maybe you're indoctrinated??" The subtle hints are precisely why it would be so damn brilliant if it ended up being true.

Also, I never once said "paid" DLC. I said DLC. I have stated numerous times that I think it would be totally bogus if a proposed "true ending" DLC cost anything. If it wasn't free, it would be even worse. So, yeah.

Also, you're kind of being hypocritical, because you're essentially saying the indoctrination would piss off a huge majority of players so Bioware shouldn't do it, but meanwhile there's an equal majority just as pissed with the ending Bioware already gave. So, what to do, then? Can't please everyone, right? So perhaps the best solution (if indoctrination is true) would be to release the "true ending" DLC for free and if you want to accept your default ending as default, simply don't download the DLC. Problem solved for everyone!!!!

Spoiler

I know you didn't say paid DLC. I'm being realistic, you would have to pay for it.

Equal majority doesn't make any sense first of all. And if it happens like you're laying it out it's just less content for people who choose a specific ending. And everyone would be telling you that your ending isn't valid because you didn't play the full game. You're presenting it as if you pick anything but destroy Shepard fails and the galaxy is doomed. That's the same exact problem as the real ending, it limits your options. You should be able to pick the control or synthesis ending and still have the possibility of defeating the Reapers if indoctrination was the case.

 

[taskmaster]

Your answers are full of holes, just like the ending. :P

Point them out.

 

[Master Chief]

I answered the questions in Italics under each other them.

Quotes are automatically italicized but thanks for the effort.

Spoiler

1. It's the final minutes of a long journey they're going to drag it out.

Really? That's satisfactory to you?

2. He was, not as badly as Shepard but he was injured.

He looked worn, sure. But not injured. At least not as badly as he should have been. The radio mentions that nobody made it to the beam... yet Anderson would have had to get there before Shepard to get ahead of him.

3. He got there after the mission where you assault his base. He found out that the Citadel was the Catalyst before Shepard and went to control the Reapers.

So why did he make a theatrical appearance? If he was there first why wasn't he at the panel?

4. I had assumed that those were the bodies of all the people on the Citadel just in shadow because it had gone dark.

I was referring to the borders of the screen getting darker and darker as TIM talks to Shepard.

5. It's exactly like what Shepard saw while in the Geth consciousness. The Catalyst presented itself as something Shepard could understand. The child had been on his mind. If Javik had been there it would have been a Prothean.

Interesting point. I like what Joker says after that mission, too. Something like, "How do you know what you're experiencing right now is reality?"

6. Near as I can tell Joker is trying to avoid the blast from the Citadel. He wouldn't know that it could hurt him or the crew.

But they were just on Earth.

7. Those people weren't killed in Harbinger's attack.

How did they magically escape no man's land?

8. Because he survives his syntheics being destroyed, you only get this if your Effective Military Strength is over 4000, otherwise he dies.

Why is there rubble when he was on the Citadel?

 

[Balthus Dire]

Point them out.

Chief just did.

 

[taskmaster]

Quotes are automatically italicized but thanks for the effort.

Spoiler

1. Really? That's satisfactory to you?

Yes, it's happen in literally hundreds of other movies and games. Just milking the ending with slo-mo.


2. He looked worn, sure. But not injured. At least not as badly as he should have been. The radio mentions that nobody made it to the beam... yet Anderson would have had to get there before Shepard to get ahead of him.

Or they just landed at different points on the Citadel like he said.

3. So why did he make a theatrical appearance? If he was there first why wasn't he at the panel?

It's a story, he's supposed to make a theatrical entrance. He wasn't at the panel because he had already been there. He had to wait for the Crucible to be connected to the Citadel to do anything and he knew he'd have to kill Shepard and Anderson. Plus, he was indoctrinated. There were physical signs of it. There were none for Shepard, if the indoctrination was far enough along where they could get him to not destroy them there would be a physical sign of it like with Saran and TIM.

4. I was referring to the borders of the screen getting darker and darker as TIM talks to Shepard.

Could have just been from the injures Shepard had sustained. Either way we're both looking to far into shadows.

5. Interesting point. I like what Joker says after that mission, too. Something like, "How do you know what you're experiencing right now is reality?"

How would indoctrinated Shepard be able to do anything within the Geth Consciousness? I suppose that would be a better way of doing the indoctrination ending than actually having it occur at the end of the game. Shepard defeats any possibility of being indoctrinated in the Geth and then goes on to beat the reapers, regardless of what choice he made while in the Geth Consciousness.

6. But they were just on Earth.

The Normandy can travel faster than light.

7. How did they get out of no man's land?

Joker rescued them.

8. Why is there rubble when he was on the Citadel?
The Reapers killed all of the people on the Citadel when they took it over to prevent it from become part of the Crucible.

Had to post something here to post my answers in the quote.