MCU Fight: Iron Man Vs. Valkyrie

[BigThor]

Neither of those blasts really did much to Loki besides knocking him down. Those repulsor blasts also knocked Thor down during their forest/mountain scuffle.

The first scene you posted was DEFINITELY part of Loki's plan to get onto the ship. The second scene was a good shot, but it was just that a good shot no indication he can take Loki in an all out fight.

 

[Flash525]

First encounter he sweeps and drops him and the threat of Tony's toys alone force a surrender. Can see some saying that this was part of Loki's plan to get on their ship.

Except that it was. Loki did his research; his big plan was to unleash the Hulk and cause chaos among the Avengers ready for his invasion.

Second encounter after getting thrown out the window he comes back up and drops Loki with one shot, now there is no real plot reasoning to why he took the hit this time so its safe to say he can take down Loki.

An energy blast is more than likely to affect an Asgardian; it's just whether there's any pain or harm inflicted. If someone throw a small rock or stick at you - you'd react. Who's to say Loki isn't merely posing a natural reaction?

It should also be interesting to note (whilst comparing Loki to Valkyrie); Loki isn't actually an Asgardian; he's a Frost Giant of normal height; he doesn't have the strength and durability of other Asgardians, that's why he seemingly relies on games, evasion, projection and mischief.

 

[Bayne]

Yeah, most people here are massively overestimating the effect that Tony's technology could actually have on Valkyrie. At most he might knock her back, keep her on the ropes for a while. But eventually, he runs out of ammunition.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

In neither of the two exchanges the had in Avengers did it ever look like Loki was capable of disarming Iron Man imo.

First encounter he sweeps and drops him and the threat of Tony's toys alone force a surrender. Can see some saying that this was part of Loki's plan to get on their ship



Second encounter after getting thrown out the window he comes back up and drops Loki with one shot, now there is no real plot reasoning to why he took the hit this time so its safe to say he can take down Loki.

Yep, there is a reason IM and Loki never have an outright fight in TA, and IMO it’s because IM would have taken Loki down making the latter less of a threat.

 

[Fosterson]

Yeah, most people here are massively overestimating the effect that Tony's technology could actually have on Valkyrie. At most he might knock her back, keep her on the ropes for a while. But eventually, he runs out of ammunition.

I'm pretty sure that a tank missile will do more than just knock her down... As will the lasers.

And let's not forget about these badboys:

 

[Bayne]

I'm pretty sure that a tank missile will do more than just knock her down... As will the lasers.

And let's not forget about these badboys:

I'm really not convinced it would. Thor gets beat up by the Hulk with no problem. The hulk tears tanks to shreds (also, Iron Man's technology). Asgardians are tougher than 20th century technology.

 

[BigThor]

Giant Man took War Machine's missles with no problem, is an oversized human tougher than Valkyrie? The same Valkyrie that TRAINS and spars with the Hulk on a daily basis and was apart of the Asgardian version of the Seal Team 6?

I doubt it, I don't think Iron Man has anything in his arsenal that could kill or even KO Valkyrie, who I'm sure could slice Iron Man's armor apart with Dragon Fang.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I'm really not convinced it would. Thor gets beat up by the Hulk with no problem. The hulk tears tanks to shreds (also, Iron Man's technology). Asgardians are tougher than 20th century technology.

Thor is not your average Asgardian and is much more powerful than the likes of the warriors 3 and Heimdall. He is the son of Odin and in a straight up fight Thor would fare much better than Valkyrie.

 

[Bayne]

Thor is not your average Asgardian and is much more powerful than the likes of the warriors 3 and Heimdall. He is the son of Odin and in a straight up fight Thor would fare much better than Valkyrie.

Valkyrie is not your average asgardian, either. She fought Hela (the most powerful Asgardian in existence) twice and lived. She sparred with the Hulk on a regular basis. She captured the greatest champions in the grandmaster's arena. Thor would fare better than her, but not by a lot.

And based on the evidence we've seen, I'm not convinced Iron Man's technology would even be that effective against the average asgardian in the first place.

 

[Flash525]

Thor is not your average Asgardian and is much more powerful than the likes of the warriors 3 and Heimdall. He is the son of Odin and in a straight up fight Thor would fare much better than Valkyrie.

I disagree. The Valkyrie were hand picked by Odin himself to defeat Hela (Odin's daughter). If the Valkyrie were (as far as Odin was concerned) capable of defeating one of his children, despite their failure, I would think the Valkyrie, and this particular Valkyrie herself to be on parr with Thor.

 

[Fosterson]

Giant Man took War Machine's missles with no problem, is an oversized human tougher than Valkyrie?

Rhodey's weapons were definitely hurting Lang, hence his use of an airport tunnel as a shield. And as I said before, we have no real quantifiable durability showings for Valkyrie yet. Therefore, maybe Giant-Man is tougher. We don't know.

The same Valkyrie that TRAINS and spars with the Hulk on a daily basis and was apart of the Asgardian version of the Seal Team 6?

We really don't know how serious those "sparring" sessions were. Judging by the playful way in which they greeted each other when Valkyrie came to Hulk's chambers, the answer would be: not very. It seems highly unlikely to me that Hulk was going all out to kill her like in the arena fight with Thor.

I doubt it, I don't think Iron Man has anything in his arsenal that could kill or even KO Valkyrie, who I'm sure could slice Iron Man's armor apart with Dragon Fang.

What about the lasers? And I wasn't saying that the small missiles will KO her, but they will hurt her and disorientate her. And that will open her up to being bisected by the lasers.

Basically, Tony has every advantage here except for in CQC.

 

[jolldan]

Except that it was. Loki did his research; his big plan was to unleash the Hulk and cause chaos among the Avengers ready for his invasion.

An energy blast is more than likely to affect an Asgardian; it's just whether there's any pain or harm inflicted. If someone throw a small rock or stick at you - you'd react. Who's to say Loki isn't merely posing a natural reaction?

It should also be interesting to note (whilst comparing Loki to Valkyrie); Loki isn't actually an Asgardian; he's a Frost Giant of normal height; he doesn't have the strength and durability of other Asgardians, that's why he seemingly relies on games, evasion, projection and mischief.

I see your point on the first one but the second while we don't know what level of damage it does it looks pretty clear that it does damage Loki. If it didn't why wouldn't he have got straight back up and started firing the spear at Tony.

I'm really not convinced it would. Thor gets beat up by the Hulk with no problem. The hulk tears tanks to shreds (also, Iron Man's technology). Asgardians are tougher than 20th century technology.

Just because Thor is good at taking a blunt force beating doesn't mean he is immune to piercing weapons. We have seen him be stabbed in multiple movies and in avengers 1 they make a point of Thor diving to avoid the gun fire that's spraying Hulk on the hellicarrier. Now that's human technology that he wanted no part of.

Also and I don't know if there's any substance to this but even though Valkyrie is really powerful I doubt she is going to have the same level of healing/resistance that Thor has just since he's the son of Odin.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Valkyrie is not your average asgardian, either. She fought Hela (the most powerful Asgardian in existence) twice and lived. She sparred with the Hulk on a regular basis. She captured the greatest champions in the grandmaster's arena. Thor would fare better than her, but not by a lot.

And based on the evidence we've seen, I'm not convinced Iron Man's technology would even be that effective against the average asgardian in the first place.

I disagree. The Valkyrie were hand picked by Odin himself to defeat Hela (Odin's daughter). If the Valkyrie were (as far as Odin was concerned) capable of defeating one of his children, despite their failure, I would think the Valkyrie, and this particular Valkyrie herself to be on parr with Thor.

Having playful spars with Hulk are hardly something to judge her on. Yes, she will be a great fighter, but in both fights with Hela she requires help just to survive. I know the Valkyrie are a fighting force, but so was the Asgardian army which Hela dispatched with ease.

Also, look at Thor's showing Vs the frost giants along with Surturs minions, Valkyrie isn't as powerful as that and couldn't take on whole armies like Thor and Hela can.

So again, comparing her to Thor in this fight is folly IMO.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Valkyrie is not your average asgardian, either. She fought Hela (the most powerful Asgardian in existence) twice and lived. She sparred with the Hulk on a regular basis. She captured the greatest champions in the grandmaster's arena. Thor would fare better than her, but not by a lot.

And based on the evidence we've seen, I'm not convinced Iron Man's technology would even be that effective against the average asgardian in the first place.

How do you know she's not your average Asgardian? She's a Valkyrie, sure, but what does that really mean in the MCU? That she can fight better than the average Asgardian? OK. Iron Man isn't dumb enough to stand toe to toe with her or get anywhere near her sword.

She would've been dead BOTH times had it not been for others being in the fight. Hela vs Valkyrie, by themselves, she would've been dead as fast as the Warriors 3.

Sparring and being in real fight are two totally different things. Trust me, it's nowhere near the same thing.

How did she capture them? With the shock neck thing? Would that work on Iron Man's armor? We all saw what happens when you try to run electric currents into the suit.

Thor DID fare better than her in every way. He put up a better fight vs Hela than she did. She didn't come nowhere near defeating her.

What evidence? The evidence we've seen so far shows that Tony's technology was already effective against Asgardians. Iron Man's armor already stood up against Thor. Before he got the 400% charge he was able to knock Thor down with a repulsar blast and a flying kick. With the 400% charge he went toe to toe with Thor and was able to get the better of him in some instances. He'd be way more prepared for another fight with another Asgardian.

Now there's no evidence Valkyrie would beat Iron Man. The only scenes we've seen are her in a fight, using her ship's guns (which really weren't working properly) to shoot junk people and almost getting killed by Hela twice.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

How do you know she's not your average Asgardian? She's a Valkyrie, sure, but what does that really mean in the MCU? That she can fight better than the average Asgardian? OK. Iron Man isn't dumb enough to stand toe to toe with her or get anywhere near her sword.

She would've been dead BOTH times had it not been for others being in the fight. Hela vs Valkyrie, by themselves, she would've been dead as fast as the Warriors 3.

Sparring and being in real fight are two totally different things. Trust me, it's nowhere near the same thing.

How did she capture them? With the shock neck thing? Would that work on Iron Man's armor? We all saw what happens when you try to run electric currents into the suit.

Thor DID fare better than her in every way. He put up a better fight vs Hela than she did. She didn't come nowhere near defeating her.

What evidence? The evidence we've seen so far shows that Tony's technology was already effective against Asgardians. Iron Man's armor already stood up against Thor. Before he got the 400% charge he was able to knock Thor down with a repulsar blast and a flying kick. With the 400% charge he went toe to toe with Thor and was able to get the better of him in some instances. He'd be way more prepared for another fight with another Asgardian.

Now there's no evidence Valkyrie would beat Iron Man. The only scenes we've seen are her in a fight, using her ship's guns (which really weren't working properly) to shoot junk people and almost getting killed by Hela twice.

exactly.

 

[Spider-Fan]

How do you know she's not your average Asgardian? She's a Valkyrie, sure, but what does that really mean in the MCU? That she can fight better than the average Asgardian? OK. Iron Man isn't dumb enough to stand toe to toe with her or get anywhere near her sword.

She would've been dead BOTH times had it not been for others being in the fight. Hela vs Valkyrie, by themselves, she would've been dead as fast as the Warriors 3.

Sparring and being in real fight are two totally different things. Trust me, it's nowhere near the same thing.

How did she capture them? With the shock neck thing? Would that work on Iron Man's armor? We all saw what happens when you try to run electric currents into the suit.

Thor DID fare better than her in every way. He put up a better fight vs Hela than she did. She didn't come nowhere near defeating her.

What evidence? The evidence we've seen so far shows that Tony's technology was already effective against Asgardians. Iron Man's armor already stood up against Thor. Before he got the 400% charge he was able to knock Thor down with a repulsar blast and a flying kick. With the 400% charge he went toe to toe with Thor and was able to get the better of him in some instances. He'd be way more prepared for another fight with another Asgardian.

Now there's no evidence Valkyrie would beat Iron Man. The only scenes we've seen are her in a fight, using her ship's guns (which really weren't working properly) to shoot junk people and almost getting killed by Hela twice.

Not after the beating Cap was giving him when he tried that

 

[Iron_Stark]

Not after the beating Cap was giving him when he tried that

Exactly! He went toe to toe with the MCU's best hand to hand fighter, was losing, then figured out how to beat him. People are acting like it'll come down to brute strength. Tony's too smart for her.

The shackles he used on Cap, he could shackle Valkyrie up, and before she breaks free, a bombardment of missiles, repulars and lasers would rain down on her.

 

[Bayne]

Rhodey's weapons were definitely hurting Lang, hence his use of an airport tunnel as a shield. And as I said before, we have no real quantifiable durability showings for Valkyrie yet. Therefore, maybe Giant-Man is tougher. We don't know.

Just by the way, I happened to be rewatching Civil War this afternoon. Turns out this simply isn't true. Lang picks up the tunnel and tries to swing it at Rhodey as a weapon, he never once attempts to use it as a shield. He also gives no reaction at all to Iron Man's missiles beyond just waving his hands in front of his face in surprise and panic.

How do you know she's not your average Asgardian? She's a Valkyrie, sure, but what does that really mean in the MCU? That she can fight better than the average Asgardian? OK. Iron Man isn't dumb enough to stand toe to toe with her or get anywhere near her sword.

She would've been dead BOTH times had it not been for others being in the fight. Hela vs Valkyrie, by themselves, she would've been dead as fast as the Warriors 3.

Sparring and being in real fight are two totally different things. Trust me, it's nowhere near the same thing.

How did she capture them? With the shock neck thing? Would that work on Iron Man's armor? We all saw what happens when you try to run electric currents into the suit.

Thor DID fare better than her in every way. He put up a better fight vs Hela than she did. She didn't come nowhere near defeating her.

What evidence? The evidence we've seen so far shows that Tony's technology was already effective against Asgardians. Iron Man's armor already stood up against Thor. Before he got the 400% charge he was able to knock Thor down with a repulsar blast and a flying kick. With the 400% charge he went toe to toe with Thor and was able to get the better of him in some instances. He'd be way more prepared for another fight with another Asgardian.

Now there's no evidence Valkyrie would beat Iron Man. The only scenes we've seen are her in a fight, using her ship's guns (which really weren't working properly) to shoot junk people and almost getting killed by Hela twice.

Tony's technology wasn't effective against Thor. It was just enough to keep him from getting owned completely, even though Thor barely seemed to be trying and viewed Tony more as an annoyance than anything else. All it was capable of doing was knocking Thor off his feet a bunch - and every single time Thor jumped backed to his feet without hesitation, and never a single sign of pain or damage of any kind.

And sparring with a skilled fighter is not the same thing as sparring with the Hulk, who can crush you with one finger and isn't exactly known for his fine motor skills and impulse control. If she could be taken out by weapons that didn't even hurt Ant-man, she would have no business in that situation.

You're right there's a lack of evidence, but it's a lack of evidence on both sides. The only actual Asgardian Tony has fought was Thor, and his technology proved basically useless there. On the basis of that there is no reason to believe Tony's armor would fare better against other Asgardians. Maybe Valkyrie is so far below Thor's level that he'd have a chance, but if Odin thought her capable of killing one of his children, it doesn't seem likely.

And Tony's intelligence doesn't make a difference if his weapons can't actually hurt her.

 

[Fosterson]

Just by the way, I happened to be rewatching Civil War this afternoon. Turns out this simply isn't true. Lang picks up the tunnel and tries to swing it at Rhodey as a weapon, he never once attempts to use it as a shield. He also gives no reaction at all to Iron Man's missiles beyond just waving his hands in front of his face in surprise and panic.

If you look at the scene closely, you can see that Rhodey only hits Lang with his shoulder-mounted minigun. He only unleashes the heavier-duty stuff on the tunnel.

And also, Lang bringing his arms in front of his face shows that he was concerned that the weaponry could seriously hurt him if it hit a vital spot. There would be no reason for him to do that if he was immune to War Machine's weapons.

Tony's technology wasn't effective against Thor. It was just enough to keep him from getting owned completely, even though Thor barely seemed to be trying and viewed Tony more as an annoyance than anything else. All it was capable of doing was knocking Thor off his feet a bunch - and every single time Thor jumped backed to his feet without hesitation, and never a single sign of pain or damage of any kind.

I don't see how this is relevant. Thor is on another level to Valkyrie altogether, given that unlike him (or Hela) she isn't considered a god. We have no reason to think that Valkyrie is any more durable than Sif or the Warriors Three.

And sparring with a skilled fighter is not the same thing as sparring with the Hulk, who can crush you with one finger and isn't exactly known for his fine motor skills and impulse control. If she could be taken out by weapons that didn't even hurt Ant-man, she would have no business in that situation.

Hulk clearly developed a decent amount of self-control on Sakaar-hence his ability to wear clothes, bathe, talk etc. He has far more control over his faculties than ever before and is no longer a savage monster. As a result, its not unreasonable to assume that he could know to pull his punches a bit when sparring.

And anyway, Valkyrie could just use her obedience disk on him if things got out of hand.

You're right there's a lack of evidence, but it's a lack of evidence on both sides. The only actual Asgardian Tony has fought was Thor, and his technology proved basically useless there. On the basis of that there is no reason to believe Tony's armor would fare better against other Asgardians.

Ok, so Tony's weapons were ineffective against the second-strongest Asgardian ever, therefore they would be ineffective against much weaker Asgardians.

Seems like sound logic.

Maybe Valkyrie is so far below Thor's level that he'd have a chance, but if Odin thought her capable of killing one of his children, it doesn't seem likely.

Odin most certainly did NOT think that Valkyrie could kill Hela. He thought that ALL of the Valkyries together MIGHT stand a chance of subduing her. And he was wrong. As Odin usually is.

On her own, there's no reason to believe that Valkyrie would last any longer against Hela than the Warriors Three did.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

In both the comics and the movies, Thor is far stronger, more durable and more powerful than any other Asgardian except Odin (and in the movies, Hela). Valkyrie is no where near that power level so I don't get why people keep using Thor to measure Valkyrie against.

Valkyrie in terms of strength and power is no higher than an average Asgardian like Sif, the Warriors 3 and Heimdall.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Thor is not an average Asgardian. Using him as a baseline for how Stark's weapons would effect the average Asgardian is faulty. Loki is probably closer, and his weapons DID hurt him.

 

[Fosterson]

In both the comics and the movies, Thor is far stronger, more durable and more powerful than any other Asgardian except Odin (and in the movies, Hela). Valkyrie is no where near that power level so I don't get why people keep using Thor to measure Valkyrie against.

Valkyrie in terms of strength and power is no higher than an average Asgardian like Sif, the Warriors 3 and Heimdall.

This. I guess people feel that the difference between Thor and Valkyrie is much smaller than in the comics. Its probably due to an interview Hemsworth gave where he said that Valkyrie could "kick Thor's ass" or something like that.

While Valkyrie might well be a more skilled martial artist than Thor, she's still way behind him in physical stats.

 

[BigThor]

Just because Thor is good at taking a blunt force beating doesn't mean he is immune to piercing weapons. We have seen him be stabbed in multiple movies and in avengers 1 they make a point of Thor diving to avoid the gun fire that's spraying Hulk on the hellicarrier. Now that's human technology that he wanted no part of.

And in the VERY next Avengers film Age of Ultron they show Thor being directly shot by machine guns from the Quinjet and coming out unscathed. So for the life of me I don't know why people keep brining up Thor dodging gunfire as evidence it would hurt him since that rumor was dispelled in Age of Ultron.

Also the only weapons that has pierced Thor were ASGARDIAN knives and weapons, another thing that people randomly choose to overlook. That's like saying Superman isn't immune to piercing damage since Kryptonian weapons can hurt him.

 

[Iron_Stark]

This. I guess people feel that the difference between Thor and Valkyrie is much smaller than in the comics. Its probably due to an interview Hemsworth gave where he said that Valkyrie could "kick Thor's ass" or something like that.

While Valkyrie might well be a more skilled martial artist than Thor, she's still way behind him in physical stats.

He was talking about Wonder Woman.

 

[Bayne]

If you look at the scene closely, you can see that Rhodey only hits Lang with his shoulder-mounted minigun. He only unleashes the heavier-duty stuff on the tunnel.

And also, Lang bringing his arms in front of his face shows that he was concerned that the weaponry could seriously hurt him if it hit a vital spot. There would be no reason for him to do that if he was immune to War Machine's weapons.

I'm not trying to argue that Lang is that invulnerable. I doubt that would even make sense. I'm simply pointing out that the claims made about the extent of his vulnerability being obvious are not true. He did not use the tunnel as a shield, and there is no reason to think his funny reaction is a sign of serious vulnerability because it's exactly the kind of thing Scott Lang would do if you just surprise him enough to put him off balance.

I don't see how this is relevant. Thor is on another level to Valkyrie altogether, given that unlike him (or Hela) she isn't considered a god. We have no reason to think that Valkyrie is any more durable than Sif or the Warriors Three.

It's relevant because it's the ONLY measuring stick we have for Asgardians. Yes, Thor can be assumed to be on a higer level than all the other asgardians. But the impression the movies give me is that ALL Asgardians share Thor's attributes of high strength and high durability (albeit to a lesser degree) just like they all share the aspect of immortality. The part that makes Thor a god is the thunder and lightning (as Ragnarok showed explicitly), not the strength.

Now, it may be entirely possible that their strength and durability is so much lower than Thor's that Iron Man could easily take out an average Asgardian, but I don't recall ever seeing any evidence of that anywhere, so when you assume that 'weaker than Thor' means 'easy prey for Iron Man', you are being ridiculous. And that's in relation to Lady Sif and the Warriors 3 (and all the other Asgardians). Once again, in my opinion, the implication was quite clear in Ragnarok that Valkyrie was supposed to be exceptional even among Asgardians. The proper place for her in the hierarchy is clearly somewhere between those characters and Thor.

Hulk clearly developed a decent amount of self-control on Sakaar-hence his ability to wear clothes, bathe, talk etc. He has far more control over his faculties than ever before and is no longer a savage monster. As a result, its not unreasonable to assume that he could know to pull his punches a bit when sparring.

And anyway, Valkyrie could just use her obedience disk on him if things got out of hand.

He's still a petulant two-year old in a freight train's body, so, yes, it is unreasonable to assume that. And the obediance disk is poor insurance when a single bad hit could be fatal.

Ok, so Tony's weapons were ineffective against the second-strongest Asgardian ever, therefore they would be ineffective against much weaker Asgardians.

Seems like sound logic.

So, Tony's weapons were never shown to be effective against Asgardians, but Thor is stronger than the average Asgardian, so surely they MUST be effective against all the OTHER asgardians. Logic fails you.