MCU Fight: Iron Man Vs. Valkyrie

[Fosterson]

He was talking about Wonder Woman.

I could have sworn he said the same thing about Valkyrie too (I guess he doesn't have a high opinion of Thor's abilities as a fighter!), but maybe I was wrong...

 

[Batmannerism]

Exactly! He went toe to toe with the MCU's best hand to hand fighter, was losing, then figured out how to beat him. People are acting like it'll come down to brute strength. Tony's too smart for her.

The shackles he used on Cap, he could shackle Valkyrie up, and before she breaks free, a bombardment of missiles, repulars and lasers would rain down on her.

This fight would be all about " ifs" . I actually agree with you that if Tony uses his brains and technology together he could defeat Val.

However, if he fought the way he did against Thor or against Cap , he'd lose.

I still reckon a couple of those tank buster missiles would injure Valkyrie, follow up with the smaller shoulder missiles and repulsed and lasers....and she'd be in serious trouble.

I'm not surprised this poll is so close though. This is a very tough battle.

 

[BigThor]

I love when the battles are this close and creates a large back and forth discussion.

Hopefully we can keep these matches as competitive as possible.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

It is a tough battle this one but some of the arguments being made baffle me with regard to Thor being compared to Valkyrie. Thor is quite obviously much more powerful.

For an example of how powerful Thor is compared to an average well trained Asgardian, see the Frost Giant fight.

 

[Fosterson]

I'm not trying to argue that Lang is that invulnerable. I doubt that would even make sense. I'm simply pointing out that the claims made about the extent of his vulnerability being obvious are not true. He did not use the tunnel as a shield, and there is no reason to think his funny reaction is a sign of serious vulnerability because it's exactly the kind of thing Scott Lang would do if you just surprise him enough to put him off balance.

Interpret it however you like, but the fact remains that Rhodey only hit Lang with his shoulder cannon. He didn't use any tank missiles or lasers (in fact, Rhodey doesn't have any lasers).

It's relevant because it's the ONLY measuring stick we have for Asgardians. Yes, Thor can be assumed to be on a higer level than all the other asgardians. But the impression the movies give me is that ALL Asgardians share Thor's attributes of high strength and high durability (albeit to a lesser degree)

A MUCH lesser degree. Take the battle with the Destroyer for example. Volstagg was seriously injured by a single blast from the Destroyer, whereas Thor was unaffected by the thing exploding in his face. Remember also that Hela was able to one-shot regular Asgardians (including the Warriors Three) with her swords, while Thor was able to fight on even after being stabbed multiple times by her.

The gap between Thor and other Asgardians is likely as great or greater than the gap between regular humans and the likes of Cap and Bucky.

just like they all share the aspect of immortality. The part that makes Thor a god is the thunder and lightning (as Ragnarok showed explicitly), not the strength.

Who says?

Now, it may be entirely possible that their strength and durability is so much lower than Thor's that Iron Man could easily take out an average Asgardian, but I don't recall ever seeing any evidence of that anywhere,

Apart from the fact that regular Asgardians were one-shotted by fodder Dark Elves and Thor was tanking shots from the Reality Stone?

so when you assume that 'weaker than Thor' means 'easy prey for Iron Man', you are being ridiculous. And that's in relation to Lady Sif and the Warriors 3 (and all the other Asgardians).

I never said that Valkyrie is "easy prey" for Tony, and I acknowledged that she'll win easily in CQC. I simply pointed out that if Tony stays in the air and rains down everything on her, there'll be nothing she can do.

Once again, in my opinion, the implication was quite clear in Ragnarok that Valkyrie was supposed to be exceptional even among Asgardians. The proper place for her in the hierarchy is clearly somewhere between those characters and Thor.

Valkyrie MIGHT be a bit above the Warriors Three and Sif, but not by much. She really didn't do any better against Hela than Hogun did. If Hogun had had Thunder Mode Thor fighting alongside him, then I'm sure he could have survived that encounter too.

He's still a petulant two-year old in a freight train's body, so, yes, it is unreasonable to assume that. And the obediance disk is poor insurance when a single bad hit could be fatal.

He's not exactly smart, sure, but he's no longer in a constant state of rage, allowing him to not trash the chambers that the Grandmaster gave him.

Given that the Grandmaster's servants felt comfortable enough to be left alone in the same room as him, it's safe to say that he knew not to just randomly kill her.

Furthermore, I doubt that Hulk could kill her in one hit.

So, Tony's weapons were never shown to be effective against Asgardians, but Thor is stronger than the average Asgardian, so surely they MUST be effective against all the OTHER asgardians. Logic fails you.

Given the demonstrated huge gap between Thor and other Asgardians, it's not unreasonable to believe this.

Another example: Loki gets ragdolled by Hulk and is left in a broken, barely conscious state. Thor gets the same treatment and recovers instantly.

 

[Flash525]

In hindsight, and having read a lot of what's been posted here (good arguments by the way) I think my initial impulse vote on Valkyrie may have been a bit premature. It does seem it would depend on the fighting style, and whether Stark can keep his distance; if he can, he wins, if he can't, he loses.

Think back to Civil War; Rogers was beating him down (not with an intent to kill), it took Stark's AI to assess Steve's fighting pattern and adapt to it. If Valkyrie was intending to kill Stark, would he last long enough for his AI to assess the fighting pattern Valkyrie was using?

[snip]

So again, comparing her to Thor in this fight is folly IMO.

Granted, comparing her to Thor may seem a bit misguided, but we can at least compare her to, or place her above Sif and the Warrios Three; all of which were seemingly much tougher than your average human.

I don't remember whether we ever saw it from Sif or the Three, but Valkyrie certainly has a spring in her step and can jump far; so she's at least got superhuman (or would it be superasgardian?) powers.

Valkyrie in terms of strength and power is no higher than an average Asgardian like Sif, the Warriors 3 and Heimdall.

Oh I don't know, I think Heimdall is different and not your regular Asgardian.

I think Asgardians, like Thor, Odin, Hela and Heimdall are gifted; much like you'll get people today that are born with a genius level intellect, or freak physical capabilities. I suspect some Asgardians, for whatever reason, are born with special abilities; Heimdall can see things (he can see into the other realms - Thor can't).

Furthermore, I doubt that Hulk could kill her in one hit.

If he bit her head off, I think she'd die in one bite.

Given the demonstrated huge gap between Thor and other Asgardians, it's not unreasonable to believe this.

Another example: Loki gets ragdolled by Hulk and is left in a broken, barely conscious state. Thor gets the same treatment and recovers instantly.

Loki isn't actually an Asgardian though; he's a little Frost Giant. I suspect his abilities were given to him either via Odin, or through some mystical means of growing up on Asgard - it would otherwise seem odd for a Frost Giant to be born with any abilities other than being a Frost Giant. No other FG displayed any additional powers.

 

[Iron_Stark]

I could have sworn he said the same thing about Valkyrie too (I guess he doesn't have a high opinion of Thor's abilities as a fighter!), but maybe I was wrong...

Yeah back when WW was coming out, they ask Gal is WW could defeat Thor, and she said, she'd kick his butt, when they ask Hemsworth about that, he agreed. I never heard him say anything about Valkyrie though. I could be wrong.

A MUCH lesser degree. Take the battle with the Destroyer for example. Volstagg was seriously injured by a single blast from the Destroyer, whereas Thor was unaffected by the thing exploding in his face. Remember also that Hela was able to one-shot regular Asgardians (including the Warriors Three) with her swords, while Thor was able to fight on even after being stabbed multiple times by her.

The gap between Thor and other Asgardians is likely as great or greater than the gap between regular humans and the likes of Cap and Bucky.


Apart from the fact that regular Asgardians were one-shotted by fodder Dark Elves and Thor was tanking shots from the Reality Stone?


I never said that Valkyrie is "easy prey" for Tony, and I acknowledged that she'll win easily in CQC. I simply pointed out that if Tony stays in the air and rains down everything on her, there'll be nothing she can do.


Valkyrie MIGHT be a bit above the Warriors Three and Sif, but not by much. She really didn't do any better against Hela than Hogun did. If Hogun had had Thunder Mode Thor fighting alongside him, then I'm sure he could have survived that encounter too.

He's not exactly smart, sure, but he's no longer in a constant state of rage, allowing him to not trash the chambers that the Grandmaster gave him.

Given that the Grandmaster's servants felt comfortable enough to be left alone in the same room as him, it's safe to say that he knew not to just randomly kill her.

Another example: Loki gets ragdolled by Hulk and is left in a broken, barely conscious state. Thor gets the same treatment and recovers instantly.

Boom. This right here. I was about to say something similar about the gap between Cap and Black Widow. She, like Valkyrie, is a trained fighter/assassin, but the gap between her and Cap is big. Same goes for Thor and Valkyrie.

It's like saying, lets base Black Widow's abilities off Captain America just because they're both human. Um, nope.

And yeah, I would've like to have seen my kids when they were 2 years old with Hulk's faculties. He definitely didn't have a 2 year old's mind, he could make proper conversation with Thor, he could bathe himself, he could feed himself, he could think for himself. That's not the mind of a two year old.

 

[BigThor]

Think back to Civil War; Rogers was beating him down (not with an intent to kill), it took Stark's AI to assess Steve's fighting pattern and adapt to it. If Valkyrie was intending to kill Stark, would he last long enough for his AI to assess the fighting pattern Valkyrie was using?

Like I said earlier, Cap's fighting styles comes from human martial arts, which Iron Man's AI has vast knowledge of.

However Valkyrie's fighting style comes from Asgardian martial art, I'm Iron Man's AI doesn't have nearly as much information on. The only Asgardian he's fought or studied was Thor, who didn't show much martials arts in their fight.

 

[jaqua99]

In neither of the two exchanges the had in Avengers did it ever look like Loki was capable of disarming Iron Man imo.

First encounter he sweeps and drops him and the threat of Tony's toys alone force a surrender. Can see some saying that this was part of Loki's plan to get on their ship



Second encounter after getting thrown out the window he comes back up and drops Loki with one shot, now there is no real plot reasoning to why he took the hit this time so its safe to say he can take down Loki.

I cant see a standard Iron man hurting any member of the Valkerie, or Asgardian Royal family. Loki putting his hands up, was a plan. Nothing Iron man did to Loki or Thor did anything more than knock them off their feet.

This is like saying 400% Tony went toe to toe with Thor...not..even..close.

400% Iron man managed to survive against a weakened Thor, who didn't seem to genuinly fight until he body slammed Iron man.

In terms of physicals, Loki is probably closer to Iron man than Thor, but he's absolutely stronger and more durable. This didnt provide him an advantage over Valkerie.

Iron man's getting vastly overrated here I think. In his standard suit, I just don't think he has the output to put down Valkerie.

 

[HammerDown]

I had to think about this for some time and i give it to Iron Man.
I think it's definitely a hard choice taking it all in consideration but still...

Valkyrie is nowhere near the level of Thor. She is indeed part of the "asgardian special forces" wich is pretty impressive, she's very strong and can fight like no-ones business in CQC, also with weapons like swords, daggers... Thor is not a regular asgardian. He is royal family and that's different, Thor, Odin and Hela are all next level. Valkyrie is likely more gifted in combat than The Warriors Three and equally as strong. In terms of durability i think she is probably around the same as TWT.

Valkyrie did indeed survive an assault against Hela but then again the Valkyries where like 30 of them. So that really doesn't help her case that much in this fight. Then Valkyrie got 2 good hits against Hela on the rainbow bridge but Hela was clearly distracted on both occasions, because otherwise Hela was taking care of Valkyrie as she did with Hogun.

If Iron Man plays it smart and there's no reason for him not to do it, then he can take Valkyrie down... Now a Valkyrie vs Captain America would be an interesting bout.

 

[BigThor]

Now a Valkyrie vs Captain America would be an interesting bout.

No way, Valkyrie would wipe the floor with Captain America and The Winter Soldier at the same time.

 

[Batmannerism]

No way, Valkyrie would wipe the floor with Captain America and The Winter Soldier at the same time.

I'll take that action. Give Bucky some nasty weapons and he and Cap might be able to challenge Val - just hand to hand, no weapons and Val beats them easily.

But 2 on one with Cap's shield and Bucky with some heavy firepower, or maybe an Asgardian blade and maybe some terrain advantages ( and a crap ton of plot armour) and they might survive.

I don't see Val beating up Loki as much of a feat, he's not known for his amazing fighting skills - although he's briefly held his own with Thor ( with the sceptre). As for Asgardian martial arts, well there are only so many ways to punch or kick, or swing a sword so Val' s skill advantage may not be as great as some believe....although she's way better than Tony.

 

[BigThor]

I'll take that action. Give Bucky some nasty weapons and he and Cap might be able to challenge Val - just hand to hand, no weapons and Val beats them easily.

But 2 on one with Cap's shield and Bucky with some heavy firepower, or maybe an Asgardian blade and maybe some terrain advantages ( and a crap ton of plot armour) and they might survive.

I don't see Val beating up Loki as much of a feat, he's not known for his amazing fighting skills - although he's briefly held his own with Thor ( with the sceptre). As for Asgardian martial arts, well there are only so many ways to punch or kick, or swing a sword so Val' s skill advantage may not be as great as some believe....although she's way better than Tony.

Nope, no plot device weapons just their standard gear and they would both get destroyed.

If beating up Loki is such an easily dismissed feat, why couldn't Cap WITH his shield do it? Why did Cap get ragdolled and battered by Loki only to be saved by Iron Man?

Cap couldn't even hurt Loki, meanwhile Valkyrie dominated Loki and preceded to knock him out before capturing him. Loki couldn't even land a single blow on Valkyrie, he landed several on Cap btw. So not only does Val have a major stat advantage on Cap, she also has a skill advantage (thousands of years of experience vs a few decades).

 

[Flash525]

Like I said earlier, Cap's fighting styles comes from human martial arts, which Iron Man's AI has vast knowledge of.

However Valkyrie's fighting style comes from Asgardian martial art, I'm Iron Man's AI doesn't have nearly as much information on. The only Asgardian he's fought or studied was Thor, who didn't show much martials arts in their fight.

I may be mistaken, but I didn't think Friday specifically assessed Steve's fighting style type; only that she assessed his style. Maybe Steve had a weaker left punch, or dropped his right elbow on every x strike? That's the sort of thing (I'd think) she'd assess, which would be very similar when assessing Valkyrie.

 

[BigThor]

I may be mistaken, but I didn't think Friday specifically assessed Steve's fighting style type; only that she assessed his style. Maybe Steve had a weaker left punch, or dropped his right elbow on every x strike? That's the sort of thing (I'd think) she'd assess, which would be very similar when assessing Valkyrie.

Oh yeah if that's the case I can see what you're saying, although Valkyrie is a great deal stronger than Cap. Who's to say if Iron Man's armor would be functional enough for that to work after taking a similar beating from a much stronger and deadlier foe.

 

[Flash525]

Oh yeah if that's the case I can see what you're saying, although Valkyrie is a great deal stronger than Cap. Who's to say if Iron Man's armor would be functional enough for that to work after taking a similar beating from a much stronger and deadlier foe.

Indeed; but that's the question I posed earlier. Whether Stark's AI would have the time needed to assess a fighting style before his suit (and in turn, Stark himself) was crushed!

 

[Batmannerism]

Nope, no plot device weapons just their standard gear and they would both get destroyed.

If beating up Loki is such an easily dismissed feat, why couldn't Cap WITH his shield do it? Why did Cap get ragdolled and battered by Loki only to be saved by Iron Man?

Cap couldn't even hurt Loki, meanwhile Valkyrie dominated Loki and preceded to knock him out before capturing him. Loki couldn't even land a single blow on Valkyrie, he landed several on Cap btw. So not only does Val have a major stat advantage on Cap, she also has a skill advantage (thousands of years of experience vs a few decades).

That's a fair point, although Cap gets stronger and tougher with every film appearance - whereas Loki, he's all over the place. Just watched the Loki v Cap fight and yes, Loki overpowers Cap, but also Loki looks winded by the repulsor blast.

You're probably right that Cap's punches and kicks might not do much harm to Val, but his shield might as it was easily able to damage Tony's armour.

What about Ronan ( no power stone) with his hammer vs Valkyrie ?

 

[BigThor]

That's a fair point, although Cap gets stronger and tougher with every film appearance - whereas Loki, he's all over the place. Just watched the Loki v Cap fight and yes, Loki overpowers Cap, but also Loki looks winded by the repulsor blast.

You're probably right that Cap's punches and kicks might not do much harm to Val, but his shield might as it was easily able to damage Tony's armour.

What about Ronan ( no power stone) with his hammer vs Valkyrie ?

I'm sure Val could disarm Cap, which happens in pretty much every movie and one strike from Dragon Fang and Cap is outta here.

Ronan with no Power Stone vs Valkyrie would be an awesome fight.

 

[Flash525]

You're probably right that Cap's punches and kicks might not do much harm to Val, but his shield might as it was easily able to damage Tony's armour.

What about Ronan ( no power stone) with his hammer vs Valkyrie ?

What is a Shield, or a Hammer without a strong arm to thrust/swing/wield it?

 

[Iron_Stark]

Gamora vs Valkyrie should be next. That would be an interesting one.

 

[jolldan]

One thing I hadn't actually thought of previously is that Valkyrie can't fly right? she was pretty much always in a ship in the movie and when you see their assault on Hela she was riding a winged horse.

I don't know how she would do surviving a 10,000 foot drop but wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't enough to kill her but just like they say in MMA being able to dictate where the fight takes place is a massive advantage.

Tony also did take shots from Mjolnir which although it did damage the suit didn't wreck it which is super impressive when you think its probably one of the more powerful weapons seen in the MCU.

Think the Speed & Smarts combo is what decides it for me.





This has been the best one for a while man looking forward to next week.

 

[DrCosmic]

Yeah... I'm not familiar with this 'keep your distance' character who seems to be winning against Valkyrie. Whoever he is, his name is definitely not Tony Stark.

Valky is not on Hammer Thor's level, but she's in the ballpark, along with Loki, as you can see Loki and Thor fighting in Avengers. The thing that messes up this comparison is mostly Hulk, but Hulk is the one character who actually, canonically, is all over the place in terms of strength, you can even see him growing to and beginning to surpass Thor in strength on the Helicarrier fight. We know also that Iron Man is only scarcely in the ballpark as he has to be supercharged to even be in that fight. Valky survives several jousts with Hela unimpaled, something that Hogun does *not* do as hard as he is to put down.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Yeah... I'm not familiar with this 'keep your distance' character who seems to be winning against Valkyrie. Whoever he is, his name is definitely not Tony Stark.

Valky is not on Hammer Thor's level, but she's in the ballpark, along with Loki, as you can see Loki and Thor fighting in Avengers. The thing that messes up this comparison is mostly Hulk, but Hulk is the one character who actually, canonically, is all over the place in terms of strength, you can even see him growing to and beginning to surpass Thor in strength on the Helicarrier fight. We know also that Iron Man is only scarcely in the ballpark as he has to be supercharged to even be in that fight. Valky survives several jousts with Hela unimpaled, something that Hogun does *not* do as hard as he is to put down.

She survived both encounters because both times, someone got in the way of the killing blow she was about to be dealt.

A one on one fight with Hela, she would be dead in a matter of seconds.

 

[Fosterson]

She survived both encounters because both times, someone got in the way of the killing blow she was about to be dealt.

A one on one fight with Hela, she would be dead in a matter of seconds.

Yeah, it's really unfair to compare the two scenarios. Valkyrie was fortunate in that Hela was focusing most of her efforts against Thor, who was obviously the greater threat. Hela was also distracted by the ship attempting to leave. If Hogun had had those luxuries, then he would have survived too.

Once Thor was out of the way, Valkyrie was demolished in close quarters just as quickly as Hogun was.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Oh yeah if that's the case I can see what you're saying, although Valkyrie is a great deal stronger than Cap. Who's to say if Iron Man's armor would be functional enough for that to work after taking a similar beating from a much stronger and deadlier foe.

It really depends on which IM armour. The Mach 3 armour could take a tank shell and jet missiles without Tony getting a scratch. The Avengers armour survived strikers from Mjolnir and alien weapons at point blank range. Then the Extremist soldiers and Cap could tear the armour apart in IM3 and CW.

IM’s armour seems to get weaker or stronger depending on the movies.