MCU: The Marvel Cinematic Universe Official Discussion - Part 1

[Aztec]

If we get a Thanos Infinity Gauntlet climax with all Avengers old & new and Guardians teaming up it will probably be the biggest film since Star Wars in terms of impact. QUOTE]

No doubt. No matter what comes after the Thanos storyline (which looks to be the end of Phase 4) those 20 someodd films will go down as the most epic form of cinematic storytelling ever. (Assuming of course the continue to maintain the high standard of quality).

Also I agree with who ever said that Marvel sets the trend and doesn't follow. The other 3 (Fox, Sony, WB) are just in panic mode. Marvel has a plan, and a HUGE one at that.

For those of you complaining about diversity in the MCU: Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, War Machine/Iron Patriot, Falcon. They've played important roles as active heroes. Yes, in supporting roles but in major storylines and franchises. They will almost certainly all be around in some capacity to battle Thanos as well.

 

[Loki882]

Key words there, SUPPORTING ROLES: Not good enough, not nearly good enough. Thus far the movies have played out thus far:

Phase One:

-IM-White guy.
-IM 2-White guy.
-TIH-White guy.
-Thor-White guy.
-Captain America TFA-White guy.
-The Avengers-Six white guys with the token (white) woman and black guy (the latter in a supporting roles).

Phase Two:

-IM 3-White guy.
-Thor TDW-White guy.
-Captain America TWS-White guy.
-GOTG-White guy was the focus, only one not covered in makeup/CGI.
-Avengers AOU-Seven white guys, two white women. Black guys role is SMALLER this time around.

Phase Three (thus far):

-Ant-Man-TWO white guys.
-Doctor Strange-White guy.
-Captain America 3-Two white guys.
-GOTG 2-?

Look I love Marvel, but their track record in this area is hardly stellar. And they brought this criticism upon themselves because they didn't HAVE to do it this way. In this area, they most definitely ARE NOT "trend-setters." Not even close.

 

[Son of Coul]

Yeah, I'm hoping for some more diversity in the near future. Mostly for the sake of diversity - and by that I don't mean "to be PC" or any junk like that, but for diversity in the sense of variety; this even includes... as weird as it may seem to say this... a nicer, more distinct visual variety and iconography.

When you have a lineup of all very different-looking leads for your universe, your brain sort of sets the impression of more diverse backgrounds and experiences for each character; not unlike GOTG which had more of a motley crew aspect, at least for me personally.

That and y'know, the whole role model thing for kids too I guess.

 

[Ghostcrow13]

Key words there, SUPPORTING ROLES: Not good enough, not nearly good enough. Thus far the movies have played out thus far:

Phase One:

-IM-White guy.
-IM 2-White guy.
-TIH-White guy.
-Thor-White guy.
-Captain America TFA-White guy.
-The Avengers-Six white guys with the token (white) woman and black guy (the latter in a supporting roles).

Phase Two:

-IM 3-White guy.
-Thor TDW-White guy.
-Captain America TWS-White guy.
-GOTG-White guy was the focus, only one not covered in makeup/CGI.
-Avengers AOU-Seven white guys, two white women. Black guys role is SMALLER this time around.

Phase Three (thus far):

-Ant-Man-TWO white guys.
-Doctor Strange-White guy.
-Captain America 3-Two white guys.
-GOTG 2-?

Look I love Marvel, but their track record in this area is hardly stellar. And they brought this criticism upon themselves because they didn't HAVE to do it this way. In this area, they most definitely ARE NOT "trend-setters." Not even close.

But apart from GOTG all the characters you mentioned, certainly the from the solo films are the biggest characters Marvel Studios has, so i would suggest it was fairly obvious that they would do those films. Of course they could have purposely made one of the big 3 black, but not many would argue RDJ, Evans and Hemsworth aren't great choices for their roles.


Black Panther for GoTG is the only change I could ever see happening in any kind of universe were they weren't purposely having a women or POC as a lead just to fill criteria. And i think GoTG makes perfect sense when they want to bring in Thanos and a credible way of stopping him.

If BP isn't in phase 3, then we can start complaining IMO.

 

[Lilbaz]

Why do people always have to bring race into it?

I would love to see a Black Panther movie, set in Africa about Africans. But I want to see Captain America/Thor/Iron Man who are white guys.

The chinese make their own films with mostly chinese actors, as do the french/spanish/indians and even the africans.

Just because america is the richest country and has hollywood, doesn't mean it is more inherently racist than studios from other parts of the world. They are just telling american stories.

 

[Iceman]

I dont really want to get too involved in this but Hollywood is THE international centre of film and they cater to the world rather than Chinese films for eg which cater for the Chinese. And every year the proportion of money pouring in is skewing more from overseas and less domestic.

 

[Lilbaz]

I dont really want to get too involved in this but Hollywood is THE international centre of film and they cater to the world rather than Chinese films for eg which cater for the Chinese. And every year the proportion of money pouring in is skewing more from overseas and less domestic.

So they must be doing something right?

 

[Iceman]

So they must be doing something right?

Yes by catering to a worldwide rather than just American audience as Marvel comics also do. The really fast overseas growth is quite recent though so expect it to continue to change.

 

[Lilbaz]

Yes by catering to a worldwide rather than just American audience as Marvel comics also do. The really fast overseas growth is quite recent though so expect it to continue to change.

The international audience doesn't seem so bothered that the lead actors are white or American.

As I said, I would love a Black Panther film starring an African actor, based in Africa exploring a lot of African issues/stories. But I don't see the problem with American studios telling American stories with white actors as the lead. The international audience seems to agree.

 

[Chris B]

Is anyone else wondering that maybe with Phase 3, Marvel is breaking the tradition of each phase culminating with an Avengers film? With the rumors of them doing Civil War as well as considering tentative release schedule, I'm wondering if that the plan is for an Infinity Gauntlet adaption to fill that role as the May 2019 release, with A3 being the May 2018 one.

 

[The Guard]

Yeah but wouldn't an Infinity Gauntlet movie essentially be an Avengers film?

 

[Iceman]

The international audience doesn't seem so bothered that the lead actors are white or American.

As I said, I would love a Black Panther film starring an African actor, based in Africa exploring a lot of African issues/stories. But I don't see the problem with American studios telling American stories with white actors as the lead. The international audience seems to agree.

Most Hollywood films have white lead actors so they don't have the choice of watching for eg Chinese superheroes done to the same standards with a $200m plus budget so no way of knowing whether they agree or not. It's not the race of the leading actor that is the reason for Hollywood's success, they just have the best people from the world working on their films with the biggest budgets and best technical prowess.

 

[Ghostcrow13]

Most Hollywood films have white lead actors so they don't have the choice of watching for eg Chinese superheroes done to the same standards with a $200m plus budget so no way of knowing whether they agree or not. It's not the race of the leading actor that is the reason for Hollywood's success, they just have the best people from the world working on their films with the biggest budgets and best technical prowess.

Considering the box office seems to grow in a country if something to do with that country is involved in a Hollywood film (just look at Transformers 4), I would say if there was a Chinese superhero film the box office would be massive.

 

[Iceman]

Considering the box office seems to grow in a country if something to do with that country is involved in a Hollywood film (just look at Transformers 4), I would say if there was a Chinese superhero film the box office would be massive.

Agreed, this line about the the international audience agreeeing makes no sense as they've not been given the alternative so we can't test whether they agree with Lilbaz till that happens and we can compare. If a multi-racial superhero film with representatives from all the major regions of the world was made by Hollywood to the same standards as Avengers/Justice League with similar special effects who knows what it would do.

 

[Lilbaz]

Has anyone watched a chinese/korean film and thought, this would be better with a white actor? I certainly haven't.
I watch films because of the story not the colour of the actors skin. Why think that other people are any different?

 

[Iceman]

Has anyone watched a chinese/korean film and thought, this would be better with a white actor? I certainly haven't.
I watch films because of the story not the colour of the actors skin. Why think that other people are any different?

I agree with that... but that's not what you were saying above. You said international audiences were agreeing with you that they were happy to just see white leads in US movies when I was saying they haven't really been given the choice. I don't have a problem wiyh white leads at all, was just disputing that point. And seeing different things is more interesting and exotic to me, particularly in a movie with a large cast, whether it be women, aliens, robots, black, Indian, Chinese etc (I've been really wanting both Vision & MM for eg in AVengers & JL). If white men as leads were rarer I'd rather see more of them in the same way.

And as for wanting a different nationality in a Chinese /Korean film of course not but these films are not made for the international market and not a similar product. Watching local films from any country is not much of an interest of mine when I have plenty of other non film interests, not that they aren't good, they just aren't the same type of product. If China was THE global centre of film instead of Hollywood (and to have got there it would likely have had to attract more than just Chinese talent in filmmaking) and US movies were low budget strictly American stories I'd probably not be interested in them either. Stuff like Marvel/DC & Star Wars is international.

 

[Lilbaz]

I agree with that... but that's not what you were saying above. You said international audiences were agreeing with you that they were happy to just see white leads in US movies when I was saying they haven't really been given the choice. I don't have a problem wiyh white leads at all, was just disputing that point. And seeing different things is more interesting and exotic to me, particularly in a movie with a large cast, whether it be women, aliens, robots, black, Indian, Chinese etc (I've been really wanting both Vision & MM for eg in AVengers & JL). If white men as leads were rarer I'd rather see more of them in the same way.

And as for wanting a different nationality in a Chinese /Korean film of course not but these films are not made for the international market and not a similar product. Watching local films from any country is not much of an interest of mine when I have plenty of other non film interests, not that they aren't good, they just aren't the same type of product. If China was THE global centre of film instead of Hollywood (and to have got there it would likely have had to attract more than just Chinese talent in filmmaking) and US movies were low budget strictly American stories I'd probably not be interested in them either. Stuff like Marvel/DC & Star Wars is international.

That's a pity. There are some fantastic films out there. I Saw The Devil. Journey To The West, Oldboy (korean version, didn't bother with the American), Rec etc... are some of my favourite films.

 

[Iceman]

That's a pity. There are some fantastic films out there. I Saw The Devil. Journey To The West, Oldboy (korean version, didn't bother with the American), Rec etc... are some of my favourite films.

Different discussion now of course and I've seen 2 of those but your're talking the best ones rather than the average foreign film which like the average US romcom or horror, is not something where I need to see every one (although I enjoy them fine when I do watch them) while genre films MCU DCCU Star Wars LOTR etc will be of interest to me even when they aren't the best. There's only so much leisure time and for the things that aren't my primary interest I'll try and stick to best-of genre. There's too many films, TV shows, unread books & comics and unplayed games in areas that I'm naturally interested to have room for seeing anything beyond the best in areas that I'm not. Also why I'm on a superhero website discussing the MCU rather on a foreign film forum.

 

[Nokio]

I dont really want to get too involved in this but Hollywood is THE international centre of film and they cater to the world rather than Chinese films for eg which cater for the Chinese. And every year the proportion of money pouring in is skewing more from overseas and less domestic.

If been long talked about that Hollwood doesn't even put much effort in the promotion of non white leading films abroad. So if all they are pumping out is led by white leads it's kinda hard to say they are doing something right if they aren't giving people choices. Another problem is that Hollywood puts most people of racial and cultural diversity into specific boxes that it's hard for a non white to became an international movie star as opposed to a white actor because of Hollywood. Audiences expect a certain person of a non white ethnic background to be portrayed in a certain way.

The world is growing and economies all across the world are growing and changing. it's only going to be a matter of time before Hollywood's lack of diversity starts to become an issue on the international scale.

 

[Nokio]

Most Hollywood films have white lead actors so they don't have the choice of watching for eg Chinese superheroes done to the same standards with a $200m plus budget so no way of knowing whether they agree or not. It's not the race of the leading actor that is the reason for Hollywood's success, they just have the best people from the world working on their films with the biggest budgets and best technical prowess.

Man come on. Hollywood does indeed factor in race big time. Yes they have the best production teams and fx and so on put forth into a lot of films but they would only do that with a white actor because they fear a person of color may not draw people to the film, which is a problem that Hollywood itself created. Their many many many times of stereotypical portrayal of non whites is the reason. They do it over and over and still to this day. I can list the stereotypes and boxes they place blacks, hispanics, and asian actors in. Heck even British males are still stereotyped by Hollywood. Don't get me started on the new bad guys of this century. The muslim males.

We add to this problem too. It's the audiences that are going to have to make the change and not Hollywood because they will never do it. Until people demand more quality leading roles or more to the point more non white actors cast in quality driven leading roles things are going to stay the same. Hollywood responds to money. When the international community stop paying for these films and as economies continue to grow of non white countries and they wanna see themselves represented more in good film nothing is going to change.

 

[Iceman]

Eh yeah..... but you're not disagreeing with me at all just making a new point right? "Man come on" doesn't really make sense here. I think you're getting confused with the discussion or at least with what I'm saying as your responses would make more sense if they were to the other guy rather than to me. t: Maybe read/reread from the top of the page.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Will the trailer come out during Big Hero 6?

 

[Johnny-Oh]

I personally hate the racial pandering, I'm hispanic and I barely notice whether an actor is white, black, asian, etc. I just see actors playing characters and as long as Im invested in the story I don't really care. The problem is when movies start casting actors of certain race or shooting in certain places just to appeal an specific demographic, the recent chinese pandering is a good example. TASM 2 had scenes in chinatown to appeal chinese audiences LMAO that's just pathetic.

As far as Marvel diversity goes I think they have done as much as possible to have a diverse cast without feeling forced, they couldn't cast a black actor for any of their main heroes since they are white in the comics. Black Widow, Nick Fury, Falcon and even War Machine are very important characters that everybody likes, calling them "token" characters is dismissing their importance in the stories they are part of. So I personally like how they're handling this.

 

[Iceman]

Scarlet Witch and Vision will make the lineup seem more exotic by the end of AoU and Ms Marvel and Black Panther can't be that far away so hopefully this whole thing will gradually become less of an issue.

 

[Lilbaz]

I personally hate the racial pandering, I'm hispanic and I barely notice whether an actor is white, black, asian, etc. I just see actors playing characters and as long as Im invested in the story I don't really care. The problem is when movies start casting actors of certain race or shooting in certain places just to appeal an specific demographic, the recent chinese pandering is a good example. TASM 2 had scenes in chinatown to appeal chinese audiences LMAO that's just pathetic.

As far as Marvel diversity goes I think they have done as much as possible to have a diverse cast without feeling forced, they couldn't cast a black actor for any of their main heroes since they are white in the comics. Black Widow, Nick Fury, Falcon and even War Machine are very important characters that everybody likes, calling them "token" characters is dismissing their importance in the stories they are part of. So I personally like how they're handling this.

Agree, the story should come first. Yes I would like to see more characters of different ethnicities but they shouldn't be shoehorned in.
What Hollywood needs is more writers and directors from different backgrounds. How can a middle class white man write story's about a culture he doesn't know and do it justice?