MCU X-Men - Part 3

[Marvel united]

The discomfort he/she feel with only the idea of a muslim character challeging their believes is exactly why Marvel should do it. And it shows exactly why is much more important than sticking to the past while ignoring the hate and violence happening now.

 

[Marvel united]

Because it's rational for non-Muslims to hate the idea of living under Islamic law?
Come on, a new Magneto who's pro-Islam would be a total personality change. Erik has always been about genetics, not belief. "Magneto I" would spare an ideological opponent for being a fellow mutant. A practicing Muslim "Magneto II" would favor a Muslim flatscan over Kitty Pryde.

You say Magneto being changed would be extremely offensive but this last sentence in itself is pretty damn offensive and extremely ignorant.

And who said Erik had to be a practicing Muslim? Magneto is not a practicing Jewish person in the comics so why would Erik HAVE to be Muslim if he's from the Middle-east

 

[CaptainWagner]

If he's a practicing Muslim, favoring Jews of the mutant race over fellow believers would be haram. If he's an apostate, he could oppose Islamic politics like "right-wing" feminist Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and then the people you're pandering to would be pissed that Magneto II wasn't anti-American enough.

All this from your very thorough crash course in Islam courtesy of Breitbart news. Step into the real world. Muslims and Jews and anyone are friends all the time, and will defend each other from persecution and violence. All this ignoring that I personally wouldn't make Magneto a Muslim any more than he is a practicing Jew in the comics. Which is not at all. As opposed to the actual Jewish heroes you keep ignoring.

What about the hate and violence when a Muslim kills a Jew?

What about it? Hate and violence is hate and violence, no matter who perpetrates it. And this whole thread has highlighted the reasons why I believe this take on Magneto would be an incredible direction for Marvel to take. But it's flown way off course. This isn't the politics section. So we can debate what is important to Magneto's character all day. But if you're going to keep making this about "leftists" and "Islamic politics", take it somewhere else.

 

[fan4stic]

Magneto's jewish in the comics. His origin's still relevant.

 

[fan4stic]

Modernizing Eric is not "creating a new character". What defines Eric isn't the holocaust. What defines him is being a victim of hate and prejudice in a very violent way. Which made him develop his own ideology.

The holocaust was awful but it's about god damn time to people start to look around and finally see the atrocious things going on here. Did anybody here missed the current president of US putting kids in cage?

The problem is that the FOX X-Men movies hit the audience so much in the head with the holocaust survivor thing (literally brought up in every movie) that people has this idea that he needs the holocaust background. No. He needs a tragic background caused by hate and prejudice that makes him develop his ideology and become who he is.

You're essentially changing the character by altering the origin. Just like in 100 years in world where racism hasn't happened in 90 years, you'd be changing Black Panther if you reboot him and try to change him for present day cultural significance.

 

[Havok83]

So I guess it would be perfectly fine to have Uncle Ben's death be something Peter only heard about through Richard nevermind why it is important that he himself caused the death. Making Magneto someone who only heard about this terrible genocide as opposed to someone who experienced it first hand takes too much of the gravitas and resonance away imo. It's basically a diet version of Magneto


Preach

dude it’s not even the same thing but there’s no convincing you, so I’ll let you have that

 

[MilkmanDan]

Magneto's jewish in the comics. His origin's still relevant.

The comics are so full of silly, outrageous stuff that Magneto being a sexy, muscular silver fox at his late 80's probably goes unnoticed. It's a quite a thing to try and sell to a movie audience however. You either explain his age or change the backstory.

 

[Marvel united]

You're essentially changing the character by altering the origin. Just like in 100 years in world where racism hasn't happened in 90 years, you'd be changing Black Panther if you reboot him and try to change him for present day cultural significance.

But T'Challa's character isn't rooted in racism. Its rooted in African culture which as far as I know, still exists and is still prevalent in Africa so I don't think that's the best analogy

 

[fan4stic]

Or they can update the character the same they updated Tony Stark and Frank Castle.

Magneto's situation is different than both. Tony's situation can be shifted for time, because the situation isn't specific. Tony is taken hostage and builds suit to escape. Frank Castle is in war and comes home to his family who is killed. Magneto suffered a specific situaion in a specific time by specific means. That situation is his origin. Not Frank's where the time his family was killed doesn't matter to it or Tony where it's in the background to his origin. It doesn't matter who holds Tony hostage, because his origin is making a suit in captivity. That's his origin. Not who holds him hostage. Magneto's isn't like that.

 

[fan4stic]

But T'Challa's character isn't rooted in racism. Its rooted in African culture which as far as I know, still exists and is still prevalent in Africa so I don't think that's the best analogy

The movie was considered relevant based on racial issues though. If in 100 years, there hasn't been african culture for 90, should the character be race changed? I don't think so.

 

[Marvel united]

The movie was considered relevant based on racial issues though. If in 100 years, there hasn't been african culture for 90, should the character be race changed? I don't think so.

In 90 years, the world and it's demographic will have completely changed. If they decided to change T'Challa's race to suit the demographic and political issues going on in 2109, so be it. Most of us will be long dead by the time this happened anyway

 

[fan4stic]

The comics are so full of silly, outrageous stuff that Magneto being a sexy, muscular silver fox at his late 80's probably goes unnoticed. It's a quite a thing to try and sell to a movie audience however. You either explain his age or change the backstory.

In a movie universe with a cybernetic raccoon and walking talking tree, I don't see this as a big deal. Explaining it simply and making it apart of the story I think works. In the 80's shield trapped him in a prison made up of his own magnetic field and it's kept him looking in his early to mid 50's.

 

[fan4stic]

In 90 years, the world and it's demographic will have completely changed. If they decided to change T'Challa's race to suit the demographic and political issues going on in 2109, so be it. Most of us will be long dead by the time this happened anyway

Really, we're talking about fictional characters, so so be it no matter what's changed or when. It's just a point. Be black and from africa is the character, so I don't see a reason to change that no matter when it happens.

 

[Mad Ones]

So what does everyone want to happen in Marvel’s X-Men series? In terms of plot, cast of characters, action, themes, and overall a series of films? Should the first trilogy deal with the mutant vs human conflict and then move on to space adventures or deal with Apocalypse storylines? I’m only asking because Fox has had almost a decade of stories some better than others so how do we keep these stories fresh and exciting for another ten plus years.

Plot: Sci-Fi with a social commentary.
Characters: Highlight the 1990s Gold and Blue team members, with a few obscure and newer characters. There should be a combination of flexibility and strictness when adapting character histories and dynamics.
Themes: Oppression, propaganda and public relations, intolerance, power and responsibility, and optimism vs negativity.
Series: a long saga, not self contained trilogies.

X-men 1: The first generation of students (Cyclops, Jean, Storm, Forge, Nightcrawler) graduate from the Xavier school (run by Xavier, Moira, and Beast) and become X-men in order to fight Mystique's Brotherhood (Destiny, Pyro, Avalanche, and Rogue) whose attacks on anti-mutant politicians threatens a war with humans. The family dynamics between Nightcrawler, Mystique, and Rogue are central, leading to Rogue leaving her manipulative mother to join the X-men. Xavier, Moira, and Beast will play small supporting roles throughout the saga but will not be a central focus.

X-men 2: The X-men (Cyclops, Jean, Storm, Forge, Nightcrawler, and Rogue) are now teachers and mentor the next generation (small roles for Jubilee, Iceman, Kitty Pryde, Sunspot). The X-men investigate a string of mutant-related disturbances in NYC (high profile robberies and break-ins) and discover that the source is a mutant thief (Gambit) gathering supplies for the Morlocks, a group of mutants living underground to avoid humans. Unbeknown to Gambit, Mister Sinister uses him to access the Morlocks for his experiments and the X-men must stop Sinister and his Marauders.

X-men 3: Start of a two-part epic about Genosha with large casts. X-men: Cyclops, Jean, Storm, Nightcrawler, Rogue, Gambit, Iceman, Jubilee, and Kitty Pryde). The X-mean learn about the use of robotic sentinels to enforce mutant/human apartheid in Genosha. After traveling covertly to Genosha, the X-men learn that a powerful mutant named Magneto is a revolutionary leading a group of mutants, including Wolverine, Colossus and Fabian Cortez, against Genosha's human leaders. After Magneto is captured by humans due to Fabian Cortez's powergrab (positioning himself to be Genosha's dictator), the X-men join Wolverine and Colossus to free Magneto, fight the sentinels, and topple the government.

X-men 4: The international community is alarmed by Magneto's ascension to power and accumulation of weapons, viewing Genosha as a rogue state. Bishop time travels to warn the X-men about the events that lead to his future. The X-men learn that Magneto plans to launch Genosha into space and create a sanctuary for mutants that is also a war-base. These cold war tensions prompt America and other countries to displace their mutants into concentration camps. With Bishop's intel, the X-men must prevent this terrifying future.

X-men 5: This movie is a breather after the pervious two huge movies. Characters who have appeared in every movie so far take a break. The X-men cast consists of Colossus, Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Iceman, Jubilee, Kitty Pryde. This is a simpler movie where the X-men attempt to save Illyana's (Colossus's sister who he brings to the mansion) soul from the demon Belasco in Limbo. Through the events of the film, Illyana is aged up and becomes Darkchylde who the X-men fights until she exerts her own agency.

X-men 6: The entire X-men cast returns for this epic two-parter: Age of Apocalypse (keeping the concept but not the details - a time traveller kills Xavier, ushering in Apocalypse' rule). The film begins in the Age of Apocalypse reality, without explanation. We see all the characters we know, but as alternative versions. Bishop had been out of the time-stream since the events of the fifth movie. Finally returning, he finds that reality has been warped by time-travel. His tech is able give the X-men their memories from their original time-line. This movie is about fleshing out the AoA reality, having fun with alternative versions, and reuniting the characters.

X-men 7: The X-men are split between two teams: Gold Team (Bishop, Jubilee, Storm, Nightcrawler, Gambit, and Rogue) and Blue Team (Cyclops, Jean, Wolverine, Colossus, Kitty Pryde, Iceman, Forge, and Sunspot). Gold Team travels back in time via a time-machine to prevent Xavier's assassination while Blue Team fights Apocalypse' armies as they hunt X-men. Gold team succeeds and the world reverts back to normal, but Apocalypse' presence continues to threaten the world. Blue and Gold teams unite to fight Apocalypse, along with Mystique's brotherhood, Magneto, and the Morlocks in a massive battle against a giant Apocalypse whose tech has infected the trashed sentinels still in the wilds of Genosha.

I got pretty hyped typing this lol. But even in seven movies with fairly large casts, there still isn't room for every character and storyline. Missing: Emma Frost (one of my favs!), Phoenix/Dark Phoenix (my fav!) the Shadow King, the Legacy Virus, Cassandra Nova, the Savage Land, and a lot more.

I purposefully downplayed Xavier and Magneto. I think giving Xavier a supporting role but not the focus is good and Magneto gets two epic movies in the middle of the saga. I also didn't want to highlight Weapon X, and left Wolverine for the latter half of the sagas. I figured there would be so much hype for MCU X-men that it doesn't need Wolverine right away, so save him for later to generate hype again. I also don't like Wolverine, so that's why I downplayed him lol.

I understand your point, but respectfully disagree. Disagree in a way that I still think there are more important issues going on right now that need more attention, like islamophobia among others, and that is no indiference towards the horrors of holocaust.

I still think that Eric is a character that should make people think about the dangers of hate and prejudice, which is what the X-Men is about, instead of "what was the biggest most malign tragedy in history", which is why I think his origin can (and should) be updated. And again, that is no insensitive towards what happened. Just bringing up the attention to 2018.

I think keeping the holocaust in Magneto's history lets the film address fascism. Having Magneto comment on how familiar America's treatment of mutants feels to him is important. I absolutely agree that the movie should tackle urgent and pressing issues.

 

[Lip]

Series: a long saga, not self contained trilogies.

I love the idea of the X-Men as a long saga. I'm happy Marvel is getting the full rights back, instead of a deal like Sony's. Who knows what will happen after Far From Home.

Anyway, it also excites me the idea of the mutant universe expanded with other teams such as New Mutants, X-Factor, X-Force, etc... And a big movie event such as Infinity War, but with mutants. It really surprised me how well they managed that big amoung of characters.

 

[Marvel united]

The trapped in his own magnetism in a Hydra prison is the only theory I like for a Holocaust Erik. But you still have to drastically change the dynamic between Charles and Erik and there should still be political commentary on what's happening in the US

 

[Marvel united]

Plot: Sci-Fi with a social commentary.
Characters: Highlight the 1990s Gold and Blue team members, with a few obscure and newer characters. There should be a combination of flexibility and strictness when adapting character histories and dynamics.
Themes: Oppression, propaganda and public relations, intolerance, power and responsibility, and optimism vs negativity.
Series: a long saga, not self contained trilogies.

X-men 1: The first generation of students (Cyclops, Jean, Storm, Forge, Nightcrawler) graduate from the Xavier school (run by Xavier, Moira, and Beast) and become X-men in order to fight Mystique's Brotherhood (Destiny, Pyro, Avalanche, and Rogue) whose attacks on anti-mutant politicians threatens a war with humans. The family dynamics between Nightcrawler, Mystique, and Rogue are central, leading to Rogue leaving her manipulative mother to join the X-men. Xavier, Moira, and Beast will play small supporting roles throughout the saga but will not be a central focus.

X-men 2: The X-men (Cyclops, Jean, Storm, Forge, Nightcrawler, and Rogue) are now teachers and mentor the next generation (small roles for Jubilee, Iceman, Kitty Pryde, Sunspot). The X-men investigate a string of mutant-related disturbances in NYC (high profile robberies and break-ins) and discover that the source is a mutant thief (Gambit) gathering supplies for the Morlocks, a group of mutants living underground to avoid humans. Unbeknown to Gambit, Mister Sinister uses him to access the Morlocks for his experiments and the X-men must stop Sinister and his Marauders.

X-men 3: Start of a two-part epic about Genosha with large casts. X-men: Cyclops, Jean, Storm, Nightcrawler, Rogue, Gambit, Iceman, Jubilee, and Kitty Pryde). The X-mean learn about the use of robotic sentinels to enforce mutant/human apartheid in Genosha. After traveling covertly to Genosha, the X-men learn that a powerful mutant named Magneto is a revolutionary leading a group of mutants, including Wolverine, Colossus and Fabian Cortez, against Genosha's human leaders. After Magneto is captured by humans due to Fabian Cortez's powergrab (positioning himself to be Genosha's dictator), the X-men join Wolverine and Colossus to free Magneto, fight the sentinels, and topple the government.

X-men 4: The international community is alarmed by Magneto's ascension to power and accumulation of weapons, viewing Genosha as a rogue state. Bishop time travels to warn the X-men about the events that lead to his future. The X-men learn that Magneto plans to launch Genosha into space and create a sanctuary for mutants that is also a war-base. These cold war tensions prompt America and other countries to displace their mutants into concentration camps. With Bishop's intel, the X-men must prevent this terrifying future.

X-men 5: This movie is a breather after the pervious two huge movies. Characters who have appeared in every movie so far take a break. The X-men cast consists of Colossus, Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Iceman, Jubilee, Kitty Pryde. This is a simpler movie where the X-men attempt to save Illyana's (Colossus's sister who he brings to the mansion) soul from the demon Belasco in Limbo. Through the events of the film, Illyana is aged up and becomes Darkchylde who the X-men fights until she exerts her own agency.

X-men 6: The entire X-men cast returns for this epic two-parter: Age of Apocalypse (keeping the concept but not the details - a time traveller kills Xavier, ushering in Apocalypse' rule). The film begins in the Age of Apocalypse reality, without explanation. We see all the characters we know, but as alternative versions. Bishop had been out of the time-stream since the events of the fifth movie. Finally returning, he finds that reality has been warped by time-travel. His tech is able give the X-men their memories from their original time-line. This movie is about fleshing out the AoA reality, having fun with alternative versions, and reuniting the characters.

X-men 7: The X-men are split between two teams: Gold Team (Bishop, Jubilee, Storm, Nightcrawler, Gambit, and Rogue) and Blue Team (Cyclops, Jean, Wolverine, Colossus, Kitty Pryde, Iceman, Forge, and Sunspot). Gold Team travels back in time via a time-machine to prevent Xavier's assassination while Blue Team fights Apocalypse' armies as they hunt X-men. Gold team succeeds and the world reverts back to normal, but Apocalypse' presence continues to threaten the world. Blue and Gold teams unite to fight Apocalypse, along with Mystique's brotherhood, Magneto, and the Morlocks in a massive battle against a giant Apocalypse whose tech has infected the trashed sentinels still in the wilds of Genosha.

I got pretty hyped typing this lol. But even in seven movies with fairly large casts, there still isn't room for every character and storyline. Missing: Emma Frost (one of my favs!), Phoenix/Dark Phoenix (my fav!) the Shadow King, the Legacy Virus, Cassandra Nova, the Savage Land, and a lot more.

I purposefully downplayed Xavier and Magneto. I think giving Xavier a supporting role but not the focus is good and Magneto gets two epic movies in the middle of the saga. I also didn't want to highlight Weapon X, and left Wolverine for the latter half of the sagas. I figured there would be so much hype for MCU X-men that it doesn't need Wolverine right away, so save him for later to generate hype again. I also don't like Wolverine, so that's why I downplayed him lol.



I think keeping the holocaust in Magneto's history lets the film address fascism. Having Magneto comment on how familiar America's treatment of mutants feels to him is important. I absolutely agree that the movie should tackle urgent and pressing issues.

I like this pitch

 

[Lip]

The trapped in his own magnetism in a Hydra prison is the only theory I like for a Holocaust Erik. But you still have to drastically change the dynamic between Charles and Erik and there should still be political commentary on what's happening in the US

And if they're old friends, Charles would look much older than him. If same age, about 80 years old. Unless he's also trapped in a prison that doesn't age him.

But, yeah, I still want an updated version of Eric. When he shows up, which I don't think will be any time soon.

 

[fan4stic]

The trapped in his own magnetism in a Hydra prison is the only theory I like for a Holocaust Erik. But you still have to drastically change the dynamic between Charles and Erik and there should still be political commentary on what's happening in the US

And if they're old friends, Charles would look much older than him. If same age, about 80 years old. Unless he's also trapped in a prison that doesn't age him.

You don't really have to change it. Charles can be a young man in his early 20's when he knew Erik and Erik can respect him as a man and see him as wise beyond his years at the time. Their friendship being based on them being peers as people and not in age is an interesting dynamic to play with I think.

 

[Frankeh]

I like your ideas a lot @Mad Ones.... Especially X-Men 2 which sounds like a blast. I think we're overdue for Sinister as the main villain in a movie. I would also like him to be presented as Scott's nemesis, keeping their backstory in the orphanage. He can pretty much be the (movie)Stryker to Scott's Wolverine. The tricky thing will be to do a first movie that establishes the political undertones of X-Men, that also feels fresh compared to the tone and subject matter of previous X-Men movies, and most likely without the contrast of Magneto and his ideology.

 

[Marvel united]

What the cast of X-Men should look like in 2021 imo

From the Homecoming Photoshoot.

I like your ideas a lot @Mad Ones.... Especially X-Men 2 which sounds like a blast. I think we're overdue for Sinister as the main villain in a movie. I would also like him to be presented as Scott's nemesis, keeping their backstory in the orphanage. He can pretty much be the (movie)Stryker to Scott's Wolverine. The tricky thing will be to do a first movie that establishes the political undertones of X-Men, that also feels fresh compared to the tone and subject matter of previous X-Men movies, and most likely without the contrast of Magneto and his ideology.

I think for the first movie, it doesn't have to be as blatant. What you could see instead are micro-aggressions towards mutants. Like somebody not wanting to shake Scott's hand after he saves them and "No muties" allowed signs. People like Senator Kelly and politicians debating over what to do about the "Mutant problem" that is manifesting around the globe. We should start off at the very beginnings of the human-mutant conflict so by the time Magneto, Friends of humanity, Purifiers, Sentinels, Morlocks etc start coming out into the limelight- tensions between humans and mutants has had time fester until it reaches it's boiling point.

 

[Shikamaru]

I'm curious, what should Xavier's ethnicity be changed to go make him more contemporary? Magneto's is kinda obvious (anything to do with genocide), but with Xavier I feel there's a lot more wiggle room.

Granted Xavier can technically remain a plain old American Caucasian, but with a new Magneto especially, it would feel weird for him to not get any revamp as well.

 

[Jh7058622]

It's not like O'Connell looks like he's 12. The dude doesn't look like a kid:

Give him the chops and maybe some scars and he'll look perfect. Logan doesn't have to look 40 years old. He has been drawn DOZENS of different ways by different artists. O'Connell looking a little bit younger to start with is a good thing in the long run

If that's the case why not use makeup to make someone who looks like the character more rugged looking?

 

[fan4stic]

I'm curious, what should Xavier's ethnicity be changed to go make him more contemporary? Magneto's is kinda obvious (anything to do with genocide), but with Xavier I feel there's a lot more wiggle room.

Granted Xavier can technically remain a plain old American Caucasian, but with a new Magneto especially, it would feel weird for him to not get any revamp as well.

I think Mag should be jewish, but Charles can be whatever race really. Though I'd prefer Xavier to have a weird detached vibe myself and I think there's more white actors that pull that off than any other race. Maybe Giancarlo Esposito?

 

[fan4stic]

What the cast of X-Men should look like in 2021 imo

From the Homecoming Photoshoot.

I don't want them to be teens in their first movie. I think that's weird. I think the X-Men should be older than Peter already. With a couple in the same age range as him. Like Kitty.