MV: I didn't want to ruin X-Men

[bullets]

x-3 seemed too cartoony. all i have to say is damn you fox . kudos to vaughn for adressing this.

 

[Abaddon]

Wolverine already had two movies worth of development time.

Storm's character development was the artifact of Halle Berry's demands. Actor demands on a script are the stuff train wrecks are made of.

So Storm was a train wreck in your opinion?

What makes you think Wolverine would've gotten less development if any other director was at the helm? He was the focal character. We see the X-Men through his eyes. It is his story.

When you kill off a character under the sort of circumstances Ratner did Professor X there, you don't leave an out. Ever.

The scene came after the credits, you can ignore it if you don't like it. It's not as if he popped up at the mansion and said "Hey guys, I'm not really dead!"

The first time, Jim Shooter demanded it before Cleremont could finish the storyline.

The second time seems to have been one of the rare instances of pure self indulgence on the part of Grant Morrison. That said, bringing her back the second time was..., well considering everyting else going on at Marvel lately, not one of the worst things in Marvel's recent history, but if I had been EIC I would have put my foot down against it.

I'm not even sure why you think this is relevant. But, why do you feel Jean should not have died?

 

[X-Maniac]

You didn't see Professor X putting on a squib and dye pack beneath his suit vest and then get shot(even in flashback), you didn't see him traped in the house as it went up in smoke with no one to get at him, you never even get to meet Echo/Morph, you saw PROFFESOR X's BODY DISINTEGRATE right in center screen! Under such circumstances, the final scene felt like a cop out.

The final scene was obviously intended to be a surprise...but we did have some set-up for it in the ethics class earlier where Prof Xavier talked about psychic transference. His body disintegrated but he survived by astral projection. The comics also provide basis for this - Prof X has had his consciousness transferred into a clone in one storyline, and he has a twin (in the comics the twin is female: Cassandra). Therefore I find nothing wrong with what we saw on screen. He knew what might happen, he prepared a survival contingency, he tried his best to stop Phoenix, he gave a 'told you so' smile to Wolverine and appeared to die. The final scene took us back to that ethics class, so it didn't come out of nowhere.

Well, there's researching the source material, and then there's researching the source material. Supermans III and IV, as bad as they were, could have been much worse. Imagine if in addition to the Arctic Fortress, they also included other pieces from the Julie Schwartz era, like Rainbow Kryptonite, Krypto the Superdog, Streaky the Supercat, Marvel the Superhorse, the Supercar, or the Undead Football Team?

One can't simply pick and choose pieces from the book for a superhero movie. You have to make sure that it fits with the story You are telling. And furthermore, ideally one should take a peak at the editorial background of the story, just in case.

I thought most of the pieces chosen did fit with the story being told. Angel, Beast, Leech, the Morlocks etc, were not random appearances, they fitted with the story being told. I'm not sure what you are getting at here. I don't think any comicbook movie has shoved stuff on the screen simply because it was in the comics.

 

[Docker2.0]

To hell with him for walking out, he clearly says there he could have made A MUCH BETTER MOVIE OUT OF X3. But instead he left the job so Fox hired the hack ratt.

"I walked out but if I stayed, i would have made a much better movie blah blah"

We got a POS movie, we don't need anyone who left the project to say they would have done far better when they're the idiot who decided to leave. What next? Bryan Singer says X3 was terrible and says he could have made it better too, y'know, right after he left us and a good series he had going on to make that Superman dud.

Agreed! Dude sounds like a angry bi+ch after she got dumped! "I could have loved you better, but I didn't feel like it." Who gives a damn if you thought you could have made a better movie!
I don't understand why the hate from fanboys over the movie. I liked it. It accomplished what it set out to do: good popcorn flick. If you wanted a deep movie, that is what SR was for. Exactly! If it's a action flick, it sucked! But if the characters are developed, it was long and boring! Fanboys are never happy!

 

[Penguin]

The Blade movies aren't any worse than Elektra, Trinity included. But hey, that isn't saying much.

i couldnt agree more t:

 

[TheVileOne]

He did voluntarily leave the project. He didn't get dumped by Fox.

 

[Docker2.0]

Never said he did. I said he "sounded like" that.

 

[Roughneck]

7. Now that they killed off three major characters they can now safely change the name of X4 to "Wolverine and the X-Men" or some crap like that.

You know that's the name of the new Animated Series right?

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

X2 was a great movie? Thats the thing that baffled me most about his comments. As a non fan of all three X-films I have to say that 3 wasn't worse than the first one.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

X3 was diabolical, one of the worst movies i have ever seen, i honestly cant stand it and i do think that Vaughn would have made a better movie.

However, its no good saying it now.

 

[Docker2.0]

X2 was a great movie? Thats the thing that baffled me most about his comments. As a non fan of all three X-films I have to say that 3 wasn't worse than the first one.

Agreed! part 1 was corny as hell! seems fans just want any excuse to bash Fox or Marvel or Ratner for any reason whatsoever!

 

[Docker2.0]

X3 was diabolical, one of the worst movies i have ever seen, i honestly cant stand it and i do think that Vaughn would have made a better movie.

However, its no good saying it now.

It belongs in the same category as SR!

 

[thedeadite]

Still all the X3 hate, oh fanboys. I had my problems with the X3 story, but I liked it WAY better than the first (which i also liked). Let's be honest with ourselves though, Singer had his vision, which at first upset alot of fans but it eventually grew on them, Singer left, Ratner came in. Now, I have a major question here. How much say did Ratner have in the script he was shooting? Didn't he pretty much have to start getting ready right away, no time for a re-write? To me it was the script that was weak, not so much the direction.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

It belongs in the same category as SR!

No, IMO SR is one of the best CB movies ever, were as X3 is one of the worst IMO.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

1. Of course it had character development. Storm became a leader and head of the school - her character developed. Rogue's fragile confidence was challenged by Kitty and she took the cure - her character developed. Xavier revealed he had held back Jean's powers - his character developed. Jean returned from apparent death and her dark side emerged - her character developed. Need i go on? It's obvious you don't even know the meaning of the phrase character development.

2. At times, it did move much too fast, mostly near the beginning... but not later on.

3. We've always had Wolverine at the centre of the X-movies.

4. Prof X's death was not 'bad', it was a shock. But, we are shown his power of astral projection, enabling him to survive death. Therefore he isn't killed off at all

5. Cyclops' death was a driving force for the motivations/changes in Xavier, Storm, Wolverine and almost everyone in the movie who fought for the X-Men's dream. It upset fans of the character, and was probably not a wise move by the studio to want him dead, but these are movies not comics. The movies tell their own story, much like Ultimate X-Men in which Beast died.

6. Jean Grey is meant to die in the classic Phoenix Saga. She had to die. Even if cured of her powers, her split personality and murderous alter-ego would remain. As in the comics, it was more important that she die a human. She allowed her death. It's central to the character

7. Whether we get a X4 is anyone's guess. They simply cannot keep adding on characters without removing some others, plus the cast was becoming hugely expensive ($100m in salaries for X3) so it's good to push some characters out of the way. These are movies, not weekly soap opera episodes. The scope is much more limited. I doubt Angel and Beast will be around in X4 for a start - their characters seemed to move on at the end of X3. We will probably see some new characters such as Gambit, and you can't keep adding new ones without taking others out.

Try to be practical in your outlook.

The reason some people don't like X3 is that it differed in style from Bryan Singer's approach and chose to do some surprising and dramatic things to bring the stories to a conclusion. And it didn't include many quiet character moments, such as Angel being reunited with his dad. It did move a little fast, the rest of your complaints aren't really that valid.

Agreed.

 

[Docker2.0]

No, IMO SR is one of the best CB movies ever, were as X3 is one of the worst IMO.

Says a lot about your taste.

 

[Dotten]

Loved X3. Liked the two first movies, which focused on more substance, but I am glad X3 gave us an actionpacked ending. It's my favourite of the three.

It shocked me more then the other two and was much more intense. It blew me away, because I was expecting something else and I was affected by all the idiotic hatred on these boards. Luckily I went out of the cinema with a big smile and the movie is one of mye Superhereofavourites. Not like Superman:The Movie or Batman Begins, but still a great and fun movie.

 

[Docker2.0]

Exactly! If Singer stayed and made the exact same film, there would be no gripes! But that Ratner did it and Fox didn't give Singer a chance...........let's hope the movie fails! Good thing it made more than SR!

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Says a lot about your taste.

This comment says a lot about your attitude.

 

[X-Maniac]

Still all the X3 hate, oh fanboys. I had my problems with the X3 story, but I liked it WAY better than the first (which i also liked). Let's be honest with ourselves though, Singer had his vision, which at first upset alot of fans but it eventually grew on them, Singer left, Ratner came in. Now, I have a major question here. How much say did Ratner have in the script he was shooting? Didn't he pretty much have to start getting ready right away, no time for a re-write? To me it was the script that was weak, not so much the direction.

Ratner arrived eight weeks before filming was due to start. Although he made structural changes to the script (all changes that Fox welcomed, such as putting the bridge scene at the climax rather than at the middle)... the main story, almost all castings and character decisions were in place.

It was Vaughn who cast the actors for Angel, Beast and Juggernaut. Originally, Worthington Snr was going to be a cynical man who forced the cure on mutant test subjects... but it was too similar to Stryker and his serum from X2, so at some point it was changed and Worthington Snr became simply a misguided father trying to do the best for his son. I've no idea if Vaughn or Ratner or the studio made this change, but it's a good change. It gives more heart to the story than an evil corporate daddy and it's Magneto's actions that force the weaponisation of the cure, which then makes Magneto even more of a threat. This makes sense from the point of view of making Magneto a real menace and the arch-villain.

The very early script had Stacy X (a mutant hooker who controlled people using pheromone secretions), Scarlet Witch, Avalanche and Gambit. It also gave a cameo role to Nightcrawler and at some point Omega Red and Gauntlet were in it. It was decided that a cameo for Nightcrawler wasn't worth doing. Gambit also had a cameo, then they decided he was worth more than a cameo. Omega Red and Gauntlet were dropped from the forest scene, and replaced by Spike.

Scarlet Witch, Stacy X and Avalanche were replaced by Callisto, Arclight and Quill (who was known as Kid Omega for most of the production, even in the credits... Kid Omega does figure in the Endsong story about Phoenix's return). Ratner cast Ken Leung as the Quill/Kid Omega character. Callisto, whose comicbook version has heightened senses and reflexes, was amped up considerably in the movie - her senses became Caliban's mutant detection power, her reflexes became Quicksilver's speed.

There wouldn't have been any way that X3 would have done justice to the considerable powers of Scarlet Witch or Avalanche, who have hugely powerful abilities, so it makes sense that rather than just getting a brief power display they (like Gambit and Nightcrawler) were left out. Mutants were included if they served the story...and they pretty much achieved that. The Quill character seems a little redundant aside from hugging Dr Rao to death, and Psylocke didn't do much apart from telekinetically camouflaging herself against a wall, but the others seem to serve a purpose in the story. It must have been quite an act of plate-spinning to create a mutant army and try to make good use of the various characters.

Ratner made a few slip-ups in choppy pacing/editing (especially making Angel's story too brief.. though he is obviously more symbolic than he is a main character) but most of X3 was in place when he came on board.

 

[Docker2.0]

This comment says a lot about your attitude.

Your right, it does. It gets really annoying to see people bash a movie to hell becuase they didn't like a small fragment of certain things about it, like the coloring is wrong for the suits, blah, blah, blah, but yet, same thing can be said for their movie and they will defend it like God blessed it Himself. I know we all have favorites and preferences...........but c'mon!

 

[X-Maniac]

It's understandable that some will prefer Bryan's take on things, as he appears to take more care and put more thought into things than Ratner, who is not known for deep, intelligent movies. However, Ratner did come on board with X3 at a very late stage so he didn't have that much time to put any more thought into it - by that stage, the studio knew what they wanted and that was that. We didn't really get a full input from Ratner on X3 - some may think it's a bad thing, some may be thankful he didn't have time to make any huge changes. However, Bryan's take on SR obviously didn't produce a blockbuster either and he had much more time, much more money and total creative freedom. SR and X3 should both have done better at the box office, especially SR.

Ratner could have made X3 better by leaving in some of the edited-out material. Then it would have been more in tone with X2, though some of the major fan complaints (Cyclops' death, Jean's mental blocks, Xavier's dark secret, Mystique being cured, Rogue being cured, Jean being stabbed to death) would still have been there.

The fates of the characters were decided by the studio, not Ratner. So he can't be held responsible for those.... except he did decide to use the scene where Rogue takes the cure, rather than the one where she doesn't. Other than that, he didn't have the time or the go-ahead for more radical changes.

Vaughn did have more time. And yet he chose to leave. We have no real way of knowing if his movie would have been better.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Your right, it does. It gets really annoying to see people bash a movie to hell becuase they didn't like a small fragment of certain things about it, like the coloring is wrong for the suits, blah, blah, blah, but yet, same thing can be said for their movie and they will defend it like God blessed it Himself. I know we all have favorites and preferences...........but c'mon!

WTF, the suite's were the LEAST of my problems with X3!

My problems with it were poor storytelling, poor acting, poor writing, poor directing, poor character development, which lead to uninteresting action scene's for me, and overall, just a poor and completely unsatisfying ending to the trilogy, not to mention some inconsistencies with the previous movies.

They are not little gripes my friend. The ONLY things i liked about the movie were the score, and the casting of the likes of Beast, Angel, young and old (though both characters were underused and poorly developed IMO) and Pyro. James Marsdens performance and SOME of Famke Jansen's (when she was allowed to act) were great as well.

 

[cookiva]

You didnt like the score?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

You didnt like the score?

Read my post again buddy, i said the score is one of the few things i liked about it.