New solicit: Does it mean Selina's baby is headed into limbo?

[hippie_hunter]

Also she is a former criminal.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, she's still a known villain, even as the "protector of Gotham's East End." She's got built-in villain credibility, which is something Batman wants for the Outsiders, and she's pretty much unbeatable at stealth infiltration, which is a very useful skill set for covert ops. Honestly, Catwoman seems like the most sensible member of the new Outsiders to me.

 

[GoldenAgeHero]

Yeah, she's still a known villain, even as the "protector of Gotham's East End." She's got built-in villain credibility, which is something Batman wants for the Outsiders, and she's pretty much unbeatable at stealth infiltration, which is a very useful skill set for covert ops. Honestly, Catwoman seems like the most sensible member of the new Outsiders to me.

i don't know DC characters that well, but im pretty sure she can't be the only one good at that.

 

[Primal Slayer]

ofcourse she isnt the only good one but she is one of the best. Plus she is someone Batman can trust with gains her major bonus points.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, Bruce totally :heart:'s Catwoman.

 

[Kitsune]

Reading the new preview, along with putting Selina on the Outsiders, I think that they won't put Helena into limbo. I think they're just preparing the book for what seems to be the inevitable cancellation and not have it feel incomplete like Aquaman: Sword of Atlantis and Firestorm: The Nuclear Man did.

They had years too complete FIrestorm... it was never a good seller. It was supposed to be canceled many times over the years, and they just kept it on lifesupport?

 

[hippie_hunter]

They had years too complete FIrestorm... it was never a good seller. It was supposed to be canceled many times over the years, and they just kept it on lifesupport?

True, but Firestorm's story feels very incomplete. They canceled it prematurely. In the end Darkseid captured Professor Stein and it's left in a To Be Continue mode. The story will continue in McDuffie's run on Justice League of America.

Aquaman: Sword of Atlantis was cancelled five issues prematurely according to Tad Williams. He wanted five more issues to resurect Orin but DC decided to cancel it at #57.

Catwoman is in cancellation territory. It feels like they're setting Selina up for the Outsiders. They're exposing Batman to Selina's baby a lot more, my guess is so that if a future writer decides to retcon Bruce being the father, there will at least be SOME basis for it instead of it being completely out of nowhere and totally stupid.

 

[Aristotle]

not have it feel incomplete like Aquaman: Sword of Atlantis and Firestorm: The Nuclear Man did.

Wouldn't know about Aquaman, since I stopped reading it shortly after OYL, but man, Firestorm just up and quit. That pissed me all the way off. I really liked that book. Ain't it just always the way, though.

im still trying to ubnderstand the point of her being in the outsiders.... what does she bring to the team?

Bat-poon. I know they say don't date your coworkers, but you can't help who you fall for, or who the writers make you fall for, as the old saying goes.

shes good at the stealth work and breaking into places....

Batman, on the other hand, is like a water buffalo. They oughtta just change his name to Waterbuffaloman, because that guy, man, it's like hearing a hippopotamus drunkenly stagger through a field of dry twigs, you know?

 

[Aristotle]

They had years too complete FIrestorm... it was never a good seller. It was supposed to be canceled many times over the years, and they just kept it on lifesupport?

You know, this is totally off-topic, but speaking of cancelled books that I loved, where the **** is Manhunter? Wasn't it supposed to come back again this summer? Or this fall, or something?

Yeah, Bruce totally :heart:'s Catwoman.

does Bruce really ":heart:" anybody? I mean, can he truly be said to :heart: people?

Aquaman: Sword of Atlantis was cancelled five issues prematurely according to Tad Williams. He wanted five more issues to resurect Orin but DC decided to cancel it at #57.

Sweet evil jumpin' Jesus on a stick. The one thing that would have resurrected that book, at least for awhile, and they don't let it happen. FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK! Will that story also be continued in McDuffie's JLA, because I would like that very a lot.

there will at least be SOME basis for it instead of it being completely out of nowhere and totally stupid.

Dude, that would be really hard to do without being a cluster****.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

does Bruce really ":heart:" anybody? I mean, can he truly be said to :heart: people?

I hope so. It's a lot more PC than saying "Batman really wants some Catwoman poon."

 

[Aristotle]

I hope so. It's a lot more PC than saying "Batman really wants some Catwoman poon."

He may love her. But he does not :heart: her.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

There's a little bit of :heart:age.

 

[hippie_hunter]

You know, this is totally off-topic, but speaking of cancelled books that I loved, where the **** is Manhunter? Wasn't it supposed to come back again this summer? Or this fall, or something?

Manhunter should start being solicited again when enough issues are in.

does Bruce really ":heart:" anybody? I mean, can he truly be said to :heart: people?

Yes Batman really does love people.

He's admitted to once loving Talia. He's loved Selina (Hush). He loved Sasha Bordeaux (Bruce Wayne: Fugitive). He's shown genuine emotion to Silver St. Cloud and Vesper Fairchild.

He's stated that he loves Jason (Hush). And it's obvious that he loves Alfred, Tim, Dick, Jim Gordon, Barbara, Lucius, Wonder Woman, Superman, and Lois.

Sweet evil jumpin' Jesus on a stick. The one thing that would have resurrected that book, at least for awhile, and they don't let it happen. FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK! Will that story also be continued in McDuffie's JLA, because I would like that very a lot.

Tad Williams went on DC's message board to tell people to buy Aquaman so that he could do an Orin resurection story. All he needed was 5 more issues to do so. Aquaman: Sword of Atlantis was cancelled before the story could finish.

Dude, that would be really hard to do without being a cluster****.

It would still be a clusterf**k no matter what. But at least there is SOME history between Batman and Helena, and more than just Batman being a friend to Selina (car seat in Batmobile, wanting to check up on her, etc.).

I guarantee that someday another writer will touch upon Helena and have Batman be the father instead of freaking Sam Bradley.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Batman loves Lois? Superman needs to punch him in the face more than usual.

Also, Batman should never be Helena's father. It's stupid. Just like it's stupid that he's that *****ebag's father in Morrison's run.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Batman loves Lois? Superman needs to punch him in the face more than usual.

Platonically of course

Also, Batman should never be Helena's father. It's stupid. Just like it's stupid that he's that *****ebag's father in Morrison's run.

Batman having a child is not stupid at all. It makes him more human if you ask me and less of some stone-cold emotionless bastard.

And frankly Batman being the father would be sooooo much better than freaking Sam Bradley. Granted that the story is going to be one huge clusterf**k and most likely stupid, but I'm willing to bet that DC will retcon Bruce to being the father eventually or at least touch upon the issue.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I've never liked the idea of Batman having kids or having a happy, long-term relationship. Bruce is 100% dedicated to his mission, and love only distracts from that. That's one of the reasons Mask of the Phantasm is still the best of the Batman movies for me (yes, including live-action ones): it highlights Bruce's commitment to his mission above all else and the inherent tragedy that brings to the character. Turning Bruce into a family man just ruins that. He can have people he cares about, but the relationships always wind up strained (Dick, Babs, Tim) or somewhat aloof (Alfred, Catwoman, Helena). Bruce is the kind of guy where you have to search for his feelings about you in his actions towards you because, frankly, he's too emotionally broken to just tell someone he loves them and communicate in the ways that a romantic relationship would require. That's one of the character's best elements to me, and it's a shame that the current regime at DC is totally overturning it.

 

[Aristotle]

Manhunter should start being solicited again when enough issues are in.

So that's like a fact? Manhunter will be back?

Yes Batman really does love people.

He's admitted to once loving Talia. He's loved Selina (Hush). He loved Sasha Bordeaux (Bruce Wayne: Fugitive). He's shown genuine emotion to Silver St. Cloud and Vesper Fairchild.

He's stated that he loves Jason (Hush). And it's obvious that he loves Alfred, Tim, Dick, Jim Gordon, Barbara, Lucius, Wonder Woman, Superman, and Lois.

Yeah, but he doesn't :heart: them.

Tad Williams went on DC's message board to tell people to buy Aquaman so that he could do an Orin resurection story. All he needed was 5 more issues to do so. Aquaman: Sword of Atlantis was cancelled before the story could finish.

I stopped reading the book awhile ago (so I guess it's kind of my fault.) I know you say they didn't finish the story, but I remember hearing a lot of **** about how Tad was cramming stuff into the few remaining issues to finish the story. Was there any closure at all (i.e., did Orin come back)?

instead of freaking Sam Bradley.

No doubt about it. That was a pretty ****ing dumb idea.

 

[Aristotle]

Granted that the story is going to be one huge clusterf**k and most likely stupid, but I'm willing to bet that DC will retcon Bruce to being the father eventually or at least touch upon the issue.

It could be done. Did Sam himself ever say he was the father? I thought it was just Selina, telling the story to Slam. (Been awhile since I read the issues though.) Maybe she was covering for Bruce/Batman. Huh? Huh? Yeah? (Of course, wasn't Bruce overseas during the time when she would have conceived?)

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Sam can't say anything about anything. He's dead.

 

[Manic]

I've never liked the idea of Batman having kids or having a happy, long-term relationship. Bruce is 100% dedicated to his mission, and love only distracts from that. That's one of the reasons Mask of the Phantasm is still the best of the Batman movies for me (yes, including live-action ones): it highlights Bruce's commitment to his mission above all else and the inherent tragedy that brings to the character. Turning Bruce into a family man just ruins that. He can have people he cares about, but the relationships always wind up strained (Dick, Babs, Tim) or somewhat aloof (Alfred, Catwoman, Helena). Bruce is the kind of guy where you have to search for his feelings about you in his actions towards you because, frankly, he's too emotionally broken to just tell someone he loves them and communicate in the ways that a romantic relationship would require. That's one of the character's best elements to me, and it's a shame that the current regime at DC is totally overturning it.

No one's asking Batman to marry Selina, start wearing tweed, smoke a corncob pipe, and drive a Batminivan. We just want a kid running around with his DNA... who f***ing isn't Damian.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Why? What purpose does that serve? How does it make Batman any better a character if he's suddenly a deadbeat biological father instead of just an emotionally handicapped foster father?

 

[Manic]

Well, I want his father/daughter relationship with Helena to be strong. Nothing wrong with that.

Why is it some people think superheroes can't handle being parents? Batman can clean up the streets of the most crime-ridden city in America, co-head the JLA, run the Outsiders, and train half a dozen kids not related to him into being his sidekicks, but he can't handle a child with his own blood?

Selina can restart her career as Catwoman while raising her daughter, but god forbid Batman (who's already helping raise the child) be her biological father.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't think Batman can be a good parent because of his emotional handicap, as I mentioned earlier. More to the point, I don't think Batman should be a good parent because of his emotional handicap. He's barely better than most of his rogues and, quite frankly, I like him that way. A secure, stable, loving Batman is boring as all hell. I want him to be dark and passionate about his crimefighting mission above all else. That's why I liked the pre-IC status quo so much--he had a family, but it was a family that built up in spite of him. He is a good man, deep at his core, but he's too damaged to let others in, so they have to force their way in. A child bursts through all of his barriers and forces him to either dilute the intensity of the character by being a good, caring parent, or makes him an unlikable deadbeat dad by neglecting the kid. It's all right for Selina because, as screwy as she is, she doesn't have quite the level of emotional issues Batman does.

Also, just so we're clear, I'm fully against Bruce adopting Tim and being the biological father of Damien, as well.

 

[hippie_hunter]

So that's like a fact? Manhunter will be back?

Yes it will be back. Manhunter is starting to become the new Spider-Girl.

Yeah, but he doesn't :heart: them.

Yes he does :heart: them. Batman is human and should act like a human. And humans naturally :heart: people.

I stopped reading the book awhile ago (so I guess it's kind of my fault.) I know you say they didn't finish the story, but I remember hearing a lot of **** about how Tad was cramming stuff into the few remaining issues to finish the story. Was there any closure at all (i.e., did Orin come back)?

The book has like 2 more issues left so they might resurect Orin in them, but no Orin is not back yet and the way the story is going and the way Tad went off, there will be no closure, just like there was no closure in Firestorm. Hopefully, Catwoman will have the closure that Manhunter had (Issue 30 was originally supposed to be the final issue after all).

No doubt about it. That was a pretty ****ing dumb idea.

Hellz yeah. And worse is that it made Selina look like a f**king ****e. I don't know about you, banging a guy and then his son later on is a tad bit trashy. Also she banged Bruce not to many issues before hand too.

 

[hippie_hunter]

It could be done. Did Sam himself ever say he was the father? I thought it was just Selina, telling the story to Slam. (Been awhile since I read the issues though.) Maybe she was covering for Bruce/Batman. Huh? Huh? Yeah? (Of course, wasn't Bruce overseas during the time when she would have conceived?)

There was the two month + period where Batman trained Harvey Dent and Crispus Allen found out who he was and Nightwing was healing from Alexander Luthor's attack. It could have happened then you know.