The Dark Knight Rises Nolan...add Robin!!!!!!

Do you want to see Robin appear in a future BB movie?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Don't care/ Who's Robin?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Don't care/ Who's Robin?


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I think what many of the supporters as well as the opponents of robin are confusing realism with suspension of belief. Sources for how Robin have been adapted properly such as TAS or other comics are all a very different medium then film.

Film right off the bat is 'realistic' not in the sense of plot or story, but however the idea they are played by real people. The characters are not drawn to fit who they are playing, they are actors cast best to fit the character. Now while some people are capable of suspending their beliefs when seeing a character playing and portrayed very accurately to the comics (Batman: Dead End) There are those same people who would find it ridiculous. Now comic accurate movies like Watchmen even still had its transitions to screen, but again it was a different style of movie all together, in which the ideas of the comic are more accepting on the screen. Let's use an example of Gotham Central. It is a comic where Batman is not the lead, but a background element. Now it works great in the comics... would it work well in a film? Probably not, especially if its advertised as a Batman movie. So the lesson we shoudl take out of this is "because it works in the comics (or other mediums) it doesn't mean it can work on screen)

However, context is one of the biggest keys in 1. accepting more far-fetched ideas 2. including different parts of canon apart of the story. One of the greatest selling points of the Nolan franchise has been that it is 'grounded'. It is not quite realistic, however it is not quite in the face about its outlandish ideas. It should be noted that the Nolan series is NOT realistic. So to use realism as a reason to not include something should be thrown right out. The same with, if it works in the comics/tas it could work in the movie. That is an entirely different medium and while it can be adapted, should not be a source/reason to why it should be included or why it could work.

Now as a story, I do not see Bruce adopting or including anybody else into his life. The character has experienced a great loss, with Harvey and Rachel. To which it would seem to be his own guilt. A natural course of action I could see is him distancing himself from any sort of relationship endangering anyone's lives with his mission. I believe it would be a better opportunity to show the relationship with Selina Kyle if anything.
Nice post and i agree with you on everything.
I agree with the last paragraph as well, Robin doesnt have to be introduced right now, but i feel that he should be at some point. Watchmen was a page to page (almost) adaption of the GN, and perhaps thats why it wasnt that successful. I understand that they cant use the more outlandish elements of the mythos because they would fail just like Watchmen, but i really believe that Robin can be introduced successfully. The only problem is that his reputation is tainted because of the Schumacher movies and the ignorance of the general audience.

But if Robin is done well, by a director and cast who have won the crowds before Robin comes along (like Nolan and co), then the audience would give him a chance. A deep and tragic story would seal the deal.
In the end, you can always force some pills down the actor's throat and gain sympathy from the crowds. Too soon? :hehe:
 
Sadly...
Robin and a host of other great characters...just DO NOT WORK in
Nowlan's Bat world....period.

That's why Im ready for the next great Bat Director who will not ashamed of the genre.:word:
 
Basically, any good director or writer can make even the goofiest aspect of a fictional work plausible. If they don't like them, that's a whole other thing.
 
Sadly...
Robin and a host of other great characters...just DO NOT WORK in
Nowlan's Bat world....period.

That's why Im ready for the next great Bat Director who will not ashamed of the genre.:word:
Not much of a fair statement in the least. I'm not a fan of excluding the more fantastical elements of the mythos either, but Nolan has stuck to a particular lane that suits his interests and talents. One that does honor a fairly large aspect of the Batman lore.

Would you rather he cater to fans' every desire, at the risk of the final product? If Nolan didn't give a damn about the genre, he wouldn't have sought out this character and put a significant amount of care to both films.
 
Gents, can I put a stop to this thread once and for all as it is starting to get boring.

In the world that has been created by Nolan there will NEVER be a Robin.

Back in the real world, how many single millionaire playboy's can you think of that the authorities would let adopt a teenage boy???.....answer NONE.

This is a pointless thread, because as long as Nolan is still directing a more gritty, real world Batman, you will not see Robin.....and from my point of view and the majority of people who bothered to take part in the poll....that is just fine!
 
I do think Robin can be implemented however I do not think it would work well. I think some will be able to accept a side-kick while most just do not understand or accept him as a character within the series. If he was introduced I am positive it would have to take a whole movie to focus on his coming to terms. However i feel that most of the audiences are more fasinated and anxious about the reimagining of the villains (especially classics like riddler, catwoman, penguin) to really be into robin being introduced.
 
It would be great to see a Robin in a serious "straight to the books film" but it will never happen. Please no Robin. Also, I'm afraid of trilogy to recent films. I say just leave it in fear that everything will be ruined. I'm grateful with what has been redeemed with the films. Please don't take everything into a spin zone for the sake of money.
 
If Nolan were doing 6 or 7 movies then Robin would be great. He could use hint at him in the 3rd. Then the Graysons die in 4 and at the end he finds out bruce is batman, in 5 Bats trains him and he becomes robin and gets good, in 6 he is Robin and kind of peaks as a sidekick and then he can either be killed or maybe start doing stuff on his own for a nightwing spin off.

Either way the Robin saga is a lot like Two-face in that if you just throw him in there, it'll suck. With Robin thought I think more than 1 movie is needed since it encompasses so many years.

since Nolan is probably not going to do more than 3, whoever takes over should try to keep it with Nolan a bit and gradually evolve.

I can see Robin working in a realistic universe by utilizing free running. I know you guys all know what this is because you're nerds like me and probably watch G4 and ninja warrior and all the cool underground stuff before anyone else. Being an acrobat, free running (and really, O'Donnell did this in forever when he goes from the 4th floor to the batcave in about 15 seconds) should come naturally to Grayson. Maybe have Dick be a bit of a delinquent. Have him discover Batman by being a crook. After Wayne adopts the orphan, he goes out to fight crime one night and ends up stopping (after a long and exhausting chase because of Grayson's athletic prowess) a 13 year old Grayson and his buddies from stealing something. He has no choice but to take him back to Wayne manor, Dick notices that Bruce is gone and suspects something and eventually finds out.

the suit would work pretty well if you used something similar to what they had in Forever, it wasn't too "gay". Or maybe redesign robin all together. Although having one of them more brightly colored, and one that can get away easier (freerunning again), would work into a team strategy as opposed to the same old "you kick their a** and I'll kick theirs, see you when you get done"
 
Bring Grayson in batman 4 or 5, lets have at least a trio of films of batman solo.
 
If Nolan were doing 6 or 7 movies then Robin would be great. He could use hint at him in the 3rd. Then the Graysons die in 4 and at the end he finds out bruce is batman, in 5 Bats trains him and he becomes robin and gets good, in 6 he is Robin and kind of peaks as a sidekick and then he can either be killed or maybe start doing stuff on his own for a nightwing spin off.

Either way the Robin saga is a lot like Two-face in that if you just throw him in there, it'll suck. With Robin thought I think more than 1 movie is needed since it encompasses so many years.

since Nolan is probably not going to do more than 3, whoever takes over should try to keep it with Nolan a bit and gradually evolve.

I can see Robin working in a realistic universe by utilizing free running. I know you guys all know what this is because you're nerds like me and probably watch G4 and ninja warrior and all the cool underground stuff before anyone else. Being an acrobat, free running (and really, O'Donnell did this in forever when he goes from the 4th floor to the batcave in about 15 seconds) should come naturally to Grayson. Maybe have Dick be a bit of a delinquent. Have him discover Batman by being a crook. After Wayne adopts the orphan, he goes out to fight crime one night and ends up stopping (after a long and exhausting chase because of Grayson's athletic prowess) a 13 year old Grayson and his buddies from stealing something. He has no choice but to take him back to Wayne manor, Dick notices that Bruce is gone and suspects something and eventually finds out.

the suit would work pretty well if you used something similar to what they had in Forever, it wasn't too "gay". Or maybe redesign robin all together. Although having one of them more brightly colored, and one that can get away easier (freerunning again), would work into a team strategy as opposed to the same old "you kick their a** and I'll kick theirs, see you when you get done"

Awesome ideas
 
No, you can't. Robin is too popular to ever stop discussions about him being in a Batman movie.



Then stop reading the thread.

Problem solved for you.
He's a troll. Dont feed him.
 
Again, why would it be weird if Bruce adopted Dick as a teenager? They both went through similar traumatic events in their lives and Bruce needed Dick because, lets be honest, he's never really had that kind of connection with. How about we make Dick 14-16 years old, he's a bright kid with a sarcastic mouth and wonders where Bruce goes all the time. He doesn't have to be in costume, and we don't really need the allusions to Robin. I'd be satisfied with Dick Grayson being Dick Grayson. This way, we get another set of emotions for Bruce. In Begins, it was fear and anger, then in TDK we got to see his frustration and self doubt. If Dick joins, we can see something close to a father and understanding that we would only see from Alfred.
 
Again, why would it be weird if Bruce adopted Dick as a teenager? They both went through similar traumatic events in their lives and Bruce needed Dick because, lets be honest, he's never really had that kind of connection with. How about we make Dick 14-16 years old, he's a bright kid with a sarcastic mouth and wonders where Bruce goes all the time. He doesn't have to be in costume, and we don't really need the allusions to Robin. I'd be satisfied with Dick Grayson being Dick Grayson. This way, we get another set of emotions for Bruce. In Begins, it was fear and anger, then in TDK we got to see his frustration and self doubt. If Dick joins, we can see something close to a father and understanding that we would only see from Alfred.
 
Again, why would it be weird if Bruce adopted Dick as a teenager? They both went through similar traumatic events in their lives and Bruce needed Dick because, lets be honest, he's never really had that kind of connection with. How about we make Dick 14-16 years old, he's a bright kid with a sarcastic mouth and wonders where Bruce goes all the time. He doesn't have to be in costume, and we don't really need the allusions to Robin. I'd be satisfied with Dick Grayson being Dick Grayson. This way, we get another set of emotions for Bruce. In Begins, it was fear and anger, then in TDK we got to see his frustration and self doubt. If Dick joins, we can see something close to a father and understanding that we would only see from Alfred.

Just to throw this down we could also see a more reckless, brutal and vengeful Batman that is forced to become more balance now that he has a surrogate son.
 
I know these weren't directed at me but I'd like to take a shot at answering them.

1.) Batman didn't kill any of Ras Al Ghul's men in Gotham, they all know his identity. Why don't they come forward?

They answer to an organization with a higher purpose. They turn in Bruce and The League Of Shadows, their methods, hierarchy, objective and whereabouts would be in the spotlight, vulnerable. They must take out Bruce but they must protect the secrecy of the League.

2.) If this whole "Batman" thing was a reality, Batman would be dead. PERIOD. If he didn't die from crime fighting people would figure out that the richest man was the vigilante known for all of his technology. That would end things pretty quick.

I've never understood why people would think Batman is a rich guy. He could be working for someone else, or at least have his tech supplied by soeone else. He could steal it. Who knows? If Bruce puts up a consistent façade there's more than reasonable doubt. Anyone claiming Bruce Wayne is Batman without proof wouldn't be believed by the public. And about getting killed in action... well, he probably would. Probably. But as long as he's shown almost dying from time to time, it's a very moderate suspension of disbelief.

3.) Bruce is always the center of attention? How come no one noticed his convo with Ras, especially the guest that introduces him?

By the look on her face as she leaves inmediatly after the introduction, I always assumed she was working with/for the League.
About the convo... no one was listening. It would be rude. It's a high-elite party, after all. It wasn't loud and it was a quite short conversation, after all.

4.) After Batman finds out that Joker has kidnapped Dent AND Dawes how come Gordon and none of the other officers question why Batman would care so much after not losing it for Dent? He loses his cool on the mention of Rachel AND messes up when Gordon asks who is he going after.

"RACHEL."

Not Ms. Dawes?

If I were a policeman, I would just guess Batman loses his cool when there's an innocent woman involved. That Batman is just priorizing the woman in jeopardy. He wouldn't have the lady's death on his conscience and it's just letting the brave Dent expect the police help. What's strage about that? That he says her first name? Enraged, in the middle of a stressful situation? Maybe he was just being condescending, referring to her by her first name. Bruce's strong bond to Rachel Dawes is not that public, anyway. If instead of "rachel" Batman would've shouted "HARVEY!", do you think the police would have thought he and Dent were close friends?
Not to mention that Gordon and his force aren't going after Batman at that point, they're letting him be. If they really wanted to know who Batman was, they would've ambushed and unmaked him while inside the interrogation room. Or when he had passed out after not running over the Joker. It's just more important to them to have his help than his identity.

The point is, you could have this "realistic" reasoning for Robin also, just like we do for Batman, Joker, Alfred, Scarecrow, etc.

Just to play devil's advocate, maybe Robin doesn't stand that kind of reasoning. It certainly contradicts big points of Batman's character and outlook that are monumental to Nolan's adaptation.

Admit that you just don't like the character, because it's evident you don't. There's is NOTHING wrong with that. I'm not to eager to have him in films either, but saying it would be lame to have the character in it or that he wouldn't work is an ignorant thing to say.

A simple "I don't like the character of Robin and don't want to see him in future Batman films" would suffice.

Maybe he doesn't like Robin because he doesn't fit with those other parts of the mythos. I know that's my reason.

Going by your logic against Robin, Batman wouldn't last a day in the "real world". It's not the real world though, it's ****ing fiction. But hell we still like it.

O course it's not realism, no fiction is. But within the realm of fiction, the are different levels of verisimilitude. If Robin doesn't fit the things we've seen so far in Nolan's Batman, he doesn't fit and that's it. He may be perfect for other takes with different aesthetic, psychological or verisimilitude "ground rules". Are you sure that Robin fits "anywhere"? Cuz' I'm not.

Saying it "just wouldn't work" when it hasn't been done is nonsense. It could be very emotional, tragic, and exciting seeing Robin done in a real and serious way, bad character or not.

I think it can work, but after the next sequel. I also think it would need some serious work and screen time in his origin to make it as smooth as possible. More than one film, for sure. A character like that needs some heavy adaptation for the current spirit of the series, IMO, and Nolan would probably be done for after one more sequel.

Did everyone give up hope on a serious, "realistic" Batman after Batman and Robin? No. Look what we got. Why should Robin or ATLEAST Dick Grayson be any different?

Why should it be the same?
 
I really believe that Robin can be introduced successfully. The only problem is that his reputation is tainted because of the Schumacher movies and the ignorance of the general audience.

By that reasoning, people would have been really against Two-Face, in the same way, since he was also ruined by Schumacher.
But I guess Schumacher's tainted legacy is not "the only problem".

But if Robin is done well, by a director and cast who have won the crowds before Robin comes along (like Nolan and co), then the audience would give him a chance. A deep and tragic story would seal the deal.
In the end, you can always force some pills down the actor's throat and gain sympathy from the crowds. Too soon? :hehe:

Too wrong. You would also need to have that guy be very loved and talented and be robbed of a 'Leading Actor' Oscar before. And need I remind you that until the second TDK trailer people there was much more Ledger-bashing than support?
 
I know these weren't directed at me but I'd like to take a shot at answering them.



They answer to an organization with a higher purpose. They turn in Bruce and The League Of Shadows, their methods, hierarchy, objective and whereabouts would be in the spotlight, vulnerable. They must take out Bruce but they must protect the secrecy of the League.



I've never understood why people would think Batman is a rich guy. He could be working for someone else, or at least have his tech supplied by soeone else. He could steal it. Who knows? If Bruce puts up a consistent façade there's more than reasonable doubt. Anyone claiming Bruce Wayne is Batman without proof wouldn't be believed by the public. And about getting killed in action... well, he probably would. Probably. But as long as he's shown almost dying from time to time, it's a very moderate suspension of disbelief.



By the look on her face as she leaves inmediatly after the introduction, I always assumed she was working with/for the League.
About the convo... no one was listening. It would be rude. It's a high-elite party, after all. It wasn't loud and it was a quite short conversation, after all.



If I were a policeman, I would just guess Batman loses his cool when there's an innocent woman involved. That Batman is just priorizing the woman in jeopardy. He wouldn't have the lady's death on his conscience and it's just letting the brave Dent expect the police help. What's strage about that? That he says her first name? Enraged, in the middle of a stressful situation? Maybe he was just being condescending, referring to her by her first name. Bruce's strong bond to Rachel Dawes is not that public, anyway. If instead of "rachel" Batman would've shouted "HARVEY!", do you think the police would have thought he and Dent were close friends?
Not to mention that Gordon and his force aren't going after Batman at that point, they're letting him be. If they really wanted to know who Batman was, they would've ambushed and unmaked him while inside the interrogation room. Or when he had passed out after not running over the Joker. It's just more important to them to have his help than his identity.



Just to play devil's advocate, maybe Robin doesn't stand that kind of reasoning. It certainly contradicts big points of Batman's character and outlook that are monumental to Nolan's adaptation.



Maybe he doesn't like Robin because he doesn't fit with those other parts of the mythos. I know that's my reason.



O course it's not realism, no fiction is. But within the realm of fiction, the are different levels of verisimilitude. If Robin doesn't fit the things we've seen so far in Nolan's Batman, he doesn't fit and that's it. He may be perfect for other takes with different aesthetic, psychological or verisimilitude "ground rules". Are you sure that Robin fits "anywhere"? Cuz' I'm not.



I think it can work, but after the next sequel. I also think it would need some serious work and screen time in his origin to make it as smooth as possible. More than one film, for sure. A character like that needs some heavy adaptation for the current spirit of the series, IMO, and Nolan would probably be done for after one more sequel.



Why should it be the same?
I like you.:fhm:
 
It all depends on how Robin is done. He is an ESSENTIAL part of the mythos, symbolising the humanising of Batman, and his attempts at creating a surrogate family to replace the family he lost. If he is treated as he is in ‘Dark Victory’ and ‘Robin: Year One’, we’re onto a winner.
 
he clearly isnt essential as we had two movies, four including the burton films where robin was not included and they were fine without him
 
he clearly isnt essential as we had two movies, four including the burton films where robin was not included and they were fine without him
He is an essential part Of the comic mythos. You may as well argue that because Two-Face wasn’t treated properly in BF, that he isn’t essential. He has been in the comics since 1940. You may not like him (and believe me, I HATE the pixie boots Dick Grayson costume, it just makes no sense), but he is a cornerstone of the mythos and I for one would love to see him being done properly on film.
 
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