Endgame Official Avengers: Endgame News & Speculation Thread!

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Marv, I don't want to get too deep with this... Or too serious because we are talking about super hero movies here. However something like this event on a narrative level to have any meaning does kinda demand to have some weight, dramatically speaking.

I'm a New Yorker. I was in the City on 9/11. As an event for the City it reverberated for a very, very, very long time. That was only thousands of people, dying from a mundane world act of terrorism that while hard to wrap one's head around was something that fell within the confines of the understandable. The Snap was like a Biblical event. And I think we can be quite sure given the post credit scenes of both AIW and A-M&TW that this was no localized, small event. The obvious presentation is one where the world was turned upside down. And it would be. The people missing due to the snap in many, many instances actually caused even more deaths. Every surgeon at the time that was operating that fell within Thanos' culling? Their patients died. Those planes and helicopers crashing meant that Thanos took the pilots and then the passengers died upon impact. I can't believe that Thanos' "cleansing" with the Stones would be somehow less efficient than his actions before gaining all the power of the Gauntlet. And I'm pretty sure that everything we saw in the MCU reffering to the snap so far indicates a massive culling of the population and not simply "tens of thousands". The effect also wasn't localized. Wakanda, New York, San Francisco unto the depths of space were shown to the audience for a reason.

That's just in the immediate aftermath though. Things would be ****ing insane in the following weeks and months. This is not something that would be shrugged off. There are logically thought out implications if you were to go down the road of treating this as an actual event. Supply chains would be fouled up which would mean, somehow, somewhere, there's gonna be deprivation of some kind. Deprivations in a given population can easily lead to revolution. What's the mental reaction to such and event as well? You think the politics of the world are crazy in reality now? What does China, or Russia or even the U.S. do when half their people go missing? Is the existence of Thanos ever revealed? And even if it were, will every country choose to believe this story? We would see massive political upheaval and social change. War even. All those Evangelicals that believe in the End Times being nigh? They get to walk around vindicated if such an event were to happen. How would that change politics? While Thanos is of the mind of this being positive for the universe this is not something he sees as a short term thing. He take a long view so he doesn't care about what hell might be unleashed in the say, immediate following decades. And I'm sorry but if billions disappeared overnight that would leave it's mark quite literally FOREVER on the history of the human race.

These ramifications are just off the top of my head Marv. The world wouldn't be all hunky dory even five years after such and event. It would reverberate. Again... Look at what the world was like on Sept. 10, 2001 and now fast forward to Sept. 10, 2006. The fallout was wide ranging across the globe.

Once more, I don't know what would be a bigger mistake. Keeping the snap and giving it focus (as an event it's just too big to reasonably ignore) in some way in each subsequent film/show or keeping the snap and then... Not really doing anything and acting like everything is pretty much as it was with no consequences or implications being shown on screen with any depth.

The most we will see I wager, of that type of world will be in AEG for it's runtime but by the end the heroes, regardless of what their sacrifices are, will have found a way to bring back those billions. I mean... I'm sorry but in the FAR FROM HOME trailer, and we do have a public statement that FFH takes place almost immediately after AEG, we see Fury is alive. He got snapped. And we see that the world is stable enough for Aunt May to allow Peter to go with his class on a trip to Europe. Invoking my 9/11 experiences again I could barely make it to my job given it was on the border below South Manhattan that the Army/National Guard had demarcated as no go zones. Travel was messed up for a long time.

I just can't see what it profits Feige and Co. to keep such a huge event intact and have all their movies and shows now have to be in a world that frankly, if they actually followed what would reasonably happen, would be a world society on the brink of total chaos at worse, or a world with literally everyone having some kind of deep seated PTSD because EVERYONE would have lost some person, at best. It just doesn't fit within the wheelhouse of everything the MCU has been up until now.


Most important of all... The world wouldn't "snap back" to what it was five, ten, or even twenty years after. It would change everything. Which essentially means, if again they followed any reasonably thought out possibilities of such and event, that the MCU is no longer some general version of our world. Now it's some wildly different place that can't really mirror anything in reality at all. This is not something like "Oh... They got hologram read outs in the MCU. It's already SO different." That's so immaterial as a difference. We are talking about a world were at least hundreds of millions of parents saw their child turn to dust in their arms. Where children saw parents disappear in front of them out of nowhere. Where people would after experiencing that would now have to navigate a society on the brink and even if there was at least some kind of even keel that would eventually come to be we are still looking at the literal change of the entirety of the world's psyche in one moment. You can't really have happy go lucky super hero movies in such a setting, but what's worse would be to have that backdrop and choose to mostly hand wave it away.
All of that is why I want more than an opening act scenes of dread montage but one of the TV shows to cover the MCU street reaction period before the Avengers restore a pre Decimation world. Of all the productions that I have seen I would trust the Cloak and Dagger team the most for that assignment.
 
All of that is why I want more than an opening act scenes of dread montage but one of the TV shows to cover the MCU street reaction period before the Avengers restore a pre Decimation world. Of all the productions that I have seen I would trust the Cloak and Dagger team the most for that assignment.
They definitely shouldve had time to account for the decimation
would be great if C&D season 2 focused on it
 
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What issue is the Thor and Iron Man image from?
 
That isn't what Kevin Feige said:

In a recent interview with Birth.Movies.Death, a reporter asked Marvel Studios President Kevin Feige, “Are half the animals dead? Are half of the horses gone? Half of the ants?” Feige responded “Yes! Yes. All life.”
Well Thanos screwed up there. All those endangered species just suddenly became even more endangered.
 
Imagine trained specialists like Nero-Surgeons suddenly getting reduced by 50 %, that would be devastating. Or elite deep-sea rescue divers getting their numbers halved.
what if 50 % of a species disappearing was just of one gender ? That would push them to extinction.
 
Dude there's a whole team of guy's who I normally enjoy watching but have really gotten carried away with literally uploading 3-4 vids daily on just about anything that comes to their mind regarding Endgame just to get you to click... I've unsubscribed to a few LOL
Yeah it's desperate and so annoying. A good theory is worth sharing (and hey this is why we come to a place like this forum) but there's a lot of cynical posting out there simply looking for clicks.
 
Marv, I don't want to get too deep with this... Or too serious because we are talking about super hero movies here. However something like this event on a narrative level to have any meaning does kinda demand to have some weight, dramatically speaking.

I'm a New Yorker. I was in the City on 9/11. As an event for the City it reverberated for a very, very, very long time. That was only thousands of people, dying from a mundane world act of terrorism that while hard to wrap one's head around was something that fell within the confines of the understandable. The Snap was like a Biblical event. And I think we can be quite sure given the post credit scenes of both AIW and A-M&TW that this was no localized, small event. The obvious presentation is one where the world was turned upside down. And it would be. The people missing due to the snap in many, many instances actually caused even more deaths. Every surgeon at the time that was operating that fell within Thanos' culling? Their patients died. Those planes and helicopers crashing meant that Thanos took the pilots and then the passengers died upon impact. I can't believe that Thanos' "cleansing" with the Stones would be somehow less efficient than his actions before gaining all the power of the Gauntlet. And I'm pretty sure that everything we saw in the MCU reffering to the snap so far indicates a massive culling of the population and not simply "tens of thousands". The effect also wasn't localized. Wakanda, New York, San Francisco unto the depths of space were shown to the audience for a reason.

That's just in the immediate aftermath though. Things would be ****ing insane in the following weeks and months. This is not something that would be shrugged off. There are logically thought out implications if you were to go down the road of treating this as an actual event. Supply chains would be fouled up which would mean, somehow, somewhere, there's gonna be deprivation of some kind. Deprivations in a given population can easily lead to revolution. What's the mental reaction to such and event as well? You think the politics of the world are crazy in reality now? What does China, or Russia or even the U.S. do when half their people go missing? Is the existence of Thanos ever revealed? And even if it were, will every country choose to believe this story? We would see massive political upheaval and social change. War even. All those Evangelicals that believe in the End Times being nigh? They get to walk around vindicated if such an event were to happen. How would that change politics? While Thanos is of the mind of this being positive for the universe this is not something he sees as a short term thing. He take a long view so he doesn't care about what hell might be unleashed in the say, immediate following decades. And I'm sorry but if billions disappeared overnight that would leave it's mark quite literally FOREVER on the history of the human race.

These ramifications are just off the top of my head Marv. The world wouldn't be all hunky dory even five years after such and event. It would reverberate. Again... Look at what the world was like on Sept. 10, 2001 and now fast forward to Sept. 10, 2006. The fallout was wide ranging across the globe.

Once more, I don't know what would be a bigger mistake. Keeping the snap and giving it focus (as an event it's just too big to reasonably ignore) in some way in each subsequent film/show or keeping the snap and then... Not really doing anything and acting like everything is pretty much as it was with no consequences or implications being shown on screen with any depth.

The most we will see I wager, of that type of world will be in AEG for it's runtime but by the end the heroes, regardless of what their sacrifices are, will have found a way to bring back those billions. I mean... I'm sorry but in the FAR FROM HOME trailer, and we do have a public statement that FFH takes place almost immediately after AEG, we see Fury is alive. He got snapped. And we see that the world is stable enough for Aunt May to allow Peter to go with his class on a trip to Europe. Invoking my 9/11 experiences again I could barely make it to my job given it was on the border below South Manhattan that the Army/National Guard had demarcated as no go zones. Travel was messed up for a long time.

I just can't see what it profits Feige and Co. to keep such a huge event intact and have all their movies and shows now have to be in a world that frankly, if they actually followed what would reasonably happen, would be a world society on the brink of total chaos at worse, or a world with literally everyone having some kind of deep seated PTSD because EVERYONE would have lost some person, at best. It just doesn't fit within the wheelhouse of everything the MCU has been up until now.


Most important of all... The world wouldn't "snap back" to what it was five, ten, or even twenty years after. It would change everything. Which essentially means, if again they followed any reasonably thought out possibilities of such and event, that the MCU is no longer some general version of our world. Now it's some wildly different place that can't really mirror anything in reality at all. This is not something like "Oh... They got hologram read outs in the MCU. It's already SO different." That's so immaterial as a difference. We are talking about a world were at least hundreds of millions of parents saw their child turn to dust in their arms. Where children saw parents disappear in front of them out of nowhere. Where people would after experiencing that would now have to navigate a society on the brink and even if there was at least some kind of even keel that would eventually come to be we are still looking at the literal change of the entirety of the world's psyche in one moment. You can't really have happy go lucky super hero movies in such a setting, but what's worse would be to have that backdrop and choose to mostly hand wave it away.

"The Snap was like a Biblical event. And I think we can be quite sure given the post credit scenes of both AIW and A-M&TW that this was no localized, small event."

Makes me wonder how will people make sense of such an event like this. Who will explain to them what happened? Will people make biblical references and assume the rapture? Just imagine the psyche of people who had family friends and loved ones just literally vanish in dust with no explanations whatsoever...
 
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No, but they don't need to burn it all down either. This ain't DC.

We'll lose some heroes, but I'm betting they'll put the universe back together.

"Some people move on, but not us."
Good to know this is not as dark as DC Universe.

So, the conclusion won't be edgy and grim-dark. :o
 
This not "Empire Strike Back" of 1980. The Russos and M&M are not writing fluff. They are producing very mature themes, with semi-realistic circumstances, with fictional characters, in the back drop of a comic book movie. With that said, the appearance to not realize, with that statement, the Avengers inability to stop essentially, a galactic god, an Eternal(Deviant), at overwhelming odds, compounds nothing, when they are eventually unable to restore half of "Life, to the Universe"; when they never was going to stop him from his initial Quest, to vacate half of "Life, in the Universe", in the first place. The Avengers was always destine to fail at such a daunting task...that's the human element, go up against a galactic being.

What make no sense whatsoever, as you put it, fans expectation, the heroes somehow, will restore half of life in a Universe, they themselves, cannot access the endless boundaries of, against a being whom travel the stars, physically, wiping half of life, on an endless number of planets; when the Russos and the writers M&M themselves, whom have set precedence in heroes failing to "completely win" in whatever circumstance they are faced with....from CA:WS, CA"CW, & A:IW, said themselves, this film is not what you think it's going to be; and, those that die in this film, will remain dead. What also makes no sense whatsoever, is the notion that the Avenger would steal Gems from Thanos, create their own Gauntlet, and undue the "Snapture"...when in essence, there have been no evidence or hint, whatsoever, of that happening; just a very good fan speculation, that have circulated the net so heavily, it has become fact, in it's own right. In a matter of a few seconds of video, you have deduced the MCU would be left in a "permanent dystopia disaster" if they don't restore the Universe back to its Pre-Snapture self. There is nothing that says that's happening. We no not what is happening on other worlds in the Universe & honestly, what we saw in just the NY harbor, may just be the immediate aftermath of the Snapture; as we saw, uninhabited helicopters & cars crashing, in a world in chaos.

My point being, Dr. Strange was asked how many did they win, out of the 14mil plus....the answer was one. Now what exactly does winning means to Dr. Strange? Strange made it perfectly clear, on several occasions, his mission was to protect the Eye of Agamotto(Time Gem), from getting in nefarious hands...to the point he told Tony directly if a choice between Tony's life & the EoA, he would choose the EoA every time. That's is a huge sacrifice, if you understand, he probably would say the same, if the choice was between saving a billion people, an octillion of beings, or half the Universe and the EoA, he would chose the EoA every time. Yet he saw 14mil plus scenarios, & every scenario, including the one won...Thanos apparently attain the Gem anyway and fulfill his Quest. I suspect winning to Dr. Strange is not undoing the Snapture….he probably saw a number of scenarios where the Snapture was reverse, with grave consequences. I suspect they will learn to refocus not on restoring the Universe; but, the safe guard(as Strange would) or the destruction(as Tony would) of the Infinity Gems. Tony will be the one to realize this against Cap's undying stubbornness(some move on, not us)….Cap would jump on the grenade as we saw in the CA:FA; Tony would cut the wire as he so eloquently stated in Avengers. I suspect some lives will be saved; but, they will have to make the choice to refocus their approach.

So, I'm not going to go on & on, I'm just saying what the Russos have been stating..."this will not be what everybody think" & what is it that everybody think, that make them say that....you got to ask yourself that. There is a number of other things I could bring up to support my suspicion; I'm just trying to address some of your thoughts that counters my own.





They are not burning down anything; yet alone, "all"....it's just a more mature approach, of the dire consequence of the story.

We're getting sequels to these movies with characters that were snapped. They're coming back and Thanos' actions will be undone. There will be consequences for victory I am sure, but the Avengers are going to win in the end. The MCU is an on-going franchise, and they are not going to leave half the universe dead. It's not a matter of mature vs juvenile storytelling, it's a matter of good writing vs bad writing. You're not setting up this movie only for the Avengers to all slip on a banana peel and die.

Remember, last year you emphatically kept telling me Cap will die in IW and that we would get a lot more major deaths in IW. I said only someone like Vision or Heimdall level would die (excluding the snapture). Who ended up being right?
 
These stupid Engame theory videos are out of control. I didn't even watch this one but the screenshot for it is so freaking ridiculous. I did give it a thumbs down, though, because, WTF?!?


Not to mention that some people are STILL publishing all these unnecessary IW articles, like "Instagram Post Confirms THIS Character Is Still Alive in Infinity War!"
 
That isn't what Kevin Feige said:

In a recent interview with Birth.Movies.Death, a reporter asked Marvel Studios President Kevin Feige, “Are half the animals dead? Are half of the horses gone? Half of the ants?” Feige responded “Yes! Yes. All life.”
That idea makes the snap entirely pointless. If Thanos wanted to reduce the population to address finite resources, then deleting half those resources (food supplies) just puts you in the same spot. Feige must have been speaking tongue-in-cheek b/c someone who could plot out all the movies leading up to this could not have overlooked something that obvious.
 
That idea makes the snap entirely pointless. If Thanos wanted to reduce the population to address finite resources, then deleting half those resources (food supplies) just puts you in the same spot. Feige must have been speaking tongue-in-cheek b/c someone who could plot out all the movies leading up to this could not have overlooked something that obvious.

I think Black Widow says that he removed half of all life in the trailer, if I remember the quote correctly. That is in line with what Feige said.
 
That idea makes the snap entirely pointless. If Thanos wanted to reduce the population to address finite resources, then deleting half those resources (food supplies) just puts you in the same spot.
Agreed.
 
Remember this though, it's not just humanity that use resources. We think of food as a resource, but animals use planetary resources, also. Too many of one kind of animal ruins an ecosystem, so the idea is perfectly consistent with Thanos' logic. Thanos is thinking on a cosmic level of what the universe can support in regard to life.
 
That idea makes the snap entirely pointless. If Thanos wanted to reduce the population to address finite resources, then deleting half those resources (food supplies) just puts you in the same spot. Feige must have been speaking tongue-in-cheek b/c someone who could plot out all the movies leading up to this could not have overlooked something that obvious.

Uhhhh...you don’t get to say that Kevin Freaking Feige must be speaking tongue in cheek just because his answer wasn’t what you wanted to hear.

The whole point is that the snap isn’t logical, Thanos is an insane villain. Is the gauntlet supposed to immediately determine which animals are used as food sources by other animals/ecosystems and whether it’s relevant enough to warrant a population snap? Do you think that if say the human population got halved but the deer and cow populations didn’t, that things would just be okay? Deer population for example is strictly regulated through hunting because if the population gets too high then there end up being too many per too small of an area, they’re fighting over the vegetation, deer are becoming skinnier and starving and thus more aggressive. Etc etc.

Every animal and plant population suddenly halving or doubling in relation to other populations would cause ENORMOUS ripple effects. Google why scientists are so alarmed about the declining rate of honey bees.

Thanos’ idea doesn’t make perfect logical sense, that’s your hangup. He’s charismatic and presents it in just a charismatic enough spin that you see enough logic in the idea to make him a compelling villain.

The snap would never be logical. Since the people snapped are completely random, more than half are affected. How many people that survive the snap then died because an empty car hit them on the highway or their pilot got snapped or they’re toddlers and their mom got snapped.

The “finite resources” thing is just Thanos’ justification for his insane plan. Even if people died but resources stayed the same (despite that being IMPOSSIBLE to quantify where the line between resource and other life forms are, as I said) there would still be wars, power vacuums over positions left by snapped people, greed, gluttony, etc. It’s not like the 1% of richest people stop meddling in terrible stuff.

Especially consider how fast the world human population has grown over the last 100, 200 years. Thanos basically devastated the universe in a way that would take hundreds of years to recover from the damage of, but the population numbers would be back within decades. The snap is plugging a hole in a dam by blowing up most of the dam and then parking your car in front of the hole.
 
Iron Man is going to be either 1st or 2nd in screen time. He's Iron Man, so that exception on the EG characters being at the forefront and IW taking a backseat rule will apply to him. But I think Cap may actually dwarf him given how emphasized he has been in the marketing relative to Iron Man to this point. I am thinking the Avengers top 4 screen time this go will be Cap, Iron Man, Widow, and Hawkeye in that order.

Thanos I am figuring will also have a backseat in Endgame, also. IW was his movie, and I expect Thanos to be in it a lot but in a role likely more similar in screen time quantity to Loki in Avengers.

If I were to give a quick guess, I'd say the screentimes of characters would roughly rank like:

  1. Captain America
  2. Captain Marvel
  3. Iron Man
  4. Thanos
  5. Nebula (might seem odd to place her this high, but they were bold enough to give Gamora the most screen time of the heroes in IW. Her role might not be so big as that, but as the last child of Thanos I think Marvel are daring enough to place her in the top five.)
  6. Ant-Man
  7. Hawkeye
  8. Hulk
  9. Black Widow
  10. Thor
  11. Rocket
  12. Rhodey
Then the snapped characters will be un-snapped in the last half hour of the movie. The big ones will likely get big, pivotal character moments in the final battle, but not rack up much actual screen time.

Then there are characters who make up the supporting cast of the various film franchises. Valkyrie, Sif, Korg, Wong, M'baku, Okoye, Shuri etc. who will get no more than a couple minutes screen time but we'll get to see them deliver some snappy one-liners and kick some ass.
 
If I were to give a quick guess, I'd say the screentimes of characters would roughly rank like:

  1. Captain America
  2. Captain Marvel
  3. Iron Man
  4. Thanos
  5. Nebula (might seem odd to place her this high, but they were bold enough to give Gamora the most screen time of the heroes in IW. Her role might not be so big as that, but as the last child of Thanos I think Marvel are daring enough to place her in the top five.)
  6. Ant-Man
  7. Hawkeye
  8. Hulk
  9. Black Widow
  10. Thor
  11. Rocket
  12. Rhodey
Then the snapped characters will be un-snapped in the last half hour of the movie. The big ones will likely get big, pivotal character moments in the final battle, but not rack up much actual screen time.

Then there are characters who make up the supporting cast of the various film franchises. Valkyrie, Sif, Korg, Wong, M'baku, Okoye, Shuri etc. who will get no more than a couple minutes screen time but we'll get to see them deliver some snappy one-liners and kick some ass.
The "all in one room" fight against Thanos is gonna be absolutely insane. With every single body in there. I wonder how it's gonna look / how they shot it. It's gonna be one of the biggest events/shots in the MCU.
 
If they go back in time or do some traveling to past stone locations, wonder if Cap will run into Red Skull.
 
If they go back in time or do some traveling to past stone locations, wonder if Cap will run into Red Skull.

Cap can't get the Soul Stone because he has no one to sacrifice for it. Everyone he loves is already dead. :waa:

tenor.gif
 
We're getting sequels to these movies with characters that were snapped. They're coming back and Thanos' actions will be undone. There will be consequences for victory I am sure, but the Avengers are going to win in the end. The MCU is an on-going franchise, and they are not going to leave half the universe dead. It's not a matter of mature vs juvenile storytelling, it's a matter of good writing vs bad writing. You're not setting up this movie only for the Avengers to all slip on a banana peel and die.

Remember, last year you emphatically kept telling me Cap will die in IW and that we would get a lot more major deaths in IW. I said only someone like Vision or Heimdall level would die (excluding the snapture). Who ended up being right?

Hmmm....you are mischaracterizing & taking out of context what I said currently & the past. You thought IM would die. I said I suspect Cap would die & Tony will walk in the sunset carrying the burden of his visions coming true. I said with Chris Evans contract ending & his desire to move on, his character was the more likely character to parish...a feeling that a huge number of people have. Still believe that today; yet, still has not been determined.

Now, you trying to misconstrue what I said recently. By no means did I say those heroes, with obvious future films coming, would remain dusted. I have said on many occasions the dusted heroes will obvious be saved; but, stated infallibility that the "Snapture" as a whole will not be undone & half the Universe will still remain vacated. I still stand by that. I don't understand your need to prove everybody or everything wrong....it all speculation base on how individuals see it. It's like you want people to conform to your way of thinking or pov. What may appear to others, may not be so apparent to you & vice-versa. It's not a pissing contest...it's a discussion, sharing of ideas, opinions, & pov.

Tony, imo, is key to "EVERYTHING"....that much is obvious; otherwise, Strange would have never parted with Eye of Agamotto w/o a fight...especially after his decree to sacrifice "all" for it. I can't stress enough, this film is not going to turn out the way many think or want it to be...the directors & writers have stated that; and, I for one believe them. I understand the blatant attempt to deceive many on the title...that backfired on Joe. But Joe is not the only one saying, this film won't be what you think...others in production are saying the same....if it was just Joe, after his title fiasco, I wouldn't give it any consideration. Anyway.....enjoy the discussion, don't be so visceral.
 
Cap can't get the Soul Stone because he has no one to sacrifice for it. Everyone he loves is already dead. :waa:

tenor.gif
haha tis is true, but maybe they just travel to the spot to see what or who was there.
 
Cap can't get the Soul Stone because he has no one to sacrifice for it. Everyone he loves is already dead. :waa:

tenor.gif

I always got the sense that he was close with Natasha (at least in the Russo-helmed films). That said, with a solo movie in the works, she probably won't be taking a dirt nap anytime soon.
 
If they go back in time or do some traveling to past stone locations, wonder if Cap will run into Red Skull.
I won't be at all surprised if these two cross paths again before the film comes to a close.
 
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