Official discussion on why "Nice Guys" have a hard time getting the girl.

[Erzengel]

I cut him some slack because I take some vested interest as I have tried to give him advice through the past few years of SHH. Has he taken any of it? Well he did change his username.

Did I believe his Alba story? No. Did I think something was up with his story since he first started talking about it? Yes. But honestly, at least with JAL, I've gotten tired of critiquing his posts and if he made up this whole story then yes it's sad. Is it plausible that all this has transpired? Yes. And in a way I do feel bad for him, and while I see more holes in his story than swiss, I gave him the benefit of the doubt anyways.

 

[enterthemadness]

I'm not gonna lie. I am needy, maybe. There are many reasons why I am single, but at least I can look without feeling bad.

Women like *******s these days. I don't know why.

 

[Sarge 2.0]

If you think you "maybe" needy, you're probably needy. And are you sure you're not confusing "*******s" with "people who have confidence"?

 

[Red Cherry Lips]

Well, nice guy hubby took away the Girl Scout Thin Mint Cookies because he KNOWS I'd go crack addict on it. He did it for my own good. :heart:

Made and ate a huge salad with tuna, tomatoes, and avocados instead. And a scoop of fresh chocolate gelato for dessert. t:

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Okay, so I haven't read through this whole thread, but I have a question regarding a real life experience, and this whole "protecting the girl" thing.

One of my jobs is doing to-go orders at a restaurant. My to-go area is right next to the bar. There are some pretty hot female bartenders.

One of them is a HUGE football fan. Her and I always talk trash to each other about our football teams. I never really felt she was interested in me in anything more than just a friendly co-worker, and as such, I never felt the desire to really pursue (she's attractive, but there was never really any hint from her that I SHOULD pursue).

One night during the playoffs, her and I met at a bar after work to watch the game. Had a couple drinks, talked, and called it a night. Again, I never really felt there was anything there.

Probably about a week later, I decide to go out and get a drink after work from my other job. I go to a bar, and I happen to see her there with a friend of hers. Turns out this guy was one of her regulars at our restaurant, and she was out celebrating her "birthday week".

We all ended up going to another bar, and her and I ended up alone at the bar. We were talking, having a good time and everything, when her friend comes up to her and says "hey, talk to this guy for a little bit" and said something about "business". So this weird guy we've never seen before comes up and starts hitting on this girl, and we both think he's a friend of her friend.

Dude asks me if she's my girlfriend, and since she wasn't (and I had no reason to think otherwise), I said "no". I let the 2 of them talk. Finally, I saw that she was getting kind of weirded out, so I stepped in between the 2, but I never forced him away. He later left on his own merits.

Later in the night, some other guy started hitting on her, and one of the girls at our table asked me "Is that your girlfriend?", thinking my girl was getting hit on in front of me, with me not doing anything. Again, I said "no". I had no reason to think I SHOULD be doing anything, as I felt her and I were just friends out having fun and drinks, and if she wants to talk to other guys, that's not my business.

A similar thing happened a few nights later at work when outside she was talking to this guy, joking around, and as I was leaving, she said something to me like "Hey, come take care of this!" and, thinking that she was trying to flirt with the guy, I said "You're on your own." She seemed to be rather mad at me after that.

Was she trying to get me to "protect her", as it's been put? Was she upset with me because I wasn't the knight in shining armor, beating up a bunch of drunks to protect her from the big, bad world? Does she now view me as "weak" because I didn't act possessive of this girl that I felt was nothing more than just friendly co-workers with? She seemed upset with me that I didn't show up to her birthday party, and then later on upset that I didn't "handle this" when she was joking around with the drunk guy.

It wasn't me being "weak" or what have you. It's more like "I'm out having fun with a friend, and if she wants to get hit on or flirt with dudes, well she ain't my girl, why am I going to act possessive of her?" Up to that time, I had no inclination in the slightest that she was in the least bit interested in me. I don't know if she wasn't, or if she just isn't now because I didn't "protect" her.

P.S.: I'm not particularly distraught about it. Like I said, I never had a big crush on her or anything, I'm just curious because there came a point (via other actions, in combination with this stuff) where I thought she might have been interested, but later it became rather clear to me that she wasn't. I dunno if she wasn't from the get go, or if I made her uninterested via my lack of actions.

 

[Spider-X]

Okay, so I haven't read through this whole thread, but I have a question regarding a real life experience, and this whole "protecting the girl" thing.

One of my jobs is doing to-go orders at a restaurant. My to-go area is right next to the bar. There are some pretty hot female bartenders.

One of them is a HUGE football fan. Her and I always talk trash to each other about our football teams. I never really felt she was interested in me in anything more than just a friendly co-worker, and as such, I never felt the desire to really pursue (she's attractive, but there was never really any hint from her that I SHOULD pursue).

One night during the playoffs, her and I met at a bar after work to watch the game. Had a couple drinks, talked, and called it a night. Again, I never really felt there was anything there.

Probably about a week later, I decide to go out and get a drink after work from my other job. I go to a bar, and I happen to see her there with a friend of hers. Turns out this guy was one of her regulars at our restaurant, and she was out celebrating her "birthday week".

We all ended up going to another bar, and her and I ended up alone at the bar. We were talking, having a good time and everything, when her friend comes up to her and says "hey, talk to this guy for a little bit" and said something about "business". So this weird guy we've never seen before comes up and starts hitting on this girl, and we both think he's a friend of her friend.

Dude asks me if she's my girlfriend, and since she wasn't (and I had no reason to think otherwise), I said "no". I let the 2 of them talk. Finally, I saw that she was getting kind of weirded out, so I stepped in between the 2, but I never forced him away. He later left on his own merits.

Later in the night, some other guy started hitting on her, and one of the girls at our table asked me "Is that your girlfriend?", thinking my girl was getting hit on in front of me, with me not doing anything. Again, I said "no". I had no reason to think I SHOULD be doing anything, as I felt her and I were just friends out having fun and drinks, and if she wants to talk to other guys, that's not my business.

A similar thing happened a few nights later at work when outside she was talking to this guy, joking around, and as I was leaving, she said something to me like "Hey, come take care of this!" and, thinking that she was trying to flirt with the guy, I said "You're on your own." She seemed to be rather mad at me after that.

Was she trying to get me to "protect her", as it's been put? Was she upset with me because I wasn't the knight in shining armor, beating up a bunch of drunks to protect her from the big, bad world? Does she now view me as "weak" because I didn't act possessive of this girl that I felt was nothing more than just friendly co-workers with? She seemed upset with me that I didn't show up to her birthday party, and then later on upset that I didn't "handle this" when she was joking around with the drunk guy.

It wasn't me being "weak" or what have you. It's more like "I'm out having fun with a friend, and if she wants to get hit on or flirt with dudes, well she ain't my girl, why am I going to act possessive of her?" Up to that time, I had no inclination in the slightest that she was in the least bit interested in me. I don't know if she wasn't, or if she just isn't now because I didn't "protect" her.

P.S.: I'm not particularly distraught about it. Like I said, I never had a big crush on her or anything, I'm just curious because there came a point (via other actions, in combination with this stuff) where I thought she might have been interested, but later it became rather clear to me that she wasn't. I dunno if she wasn't from the get go, or if I made her uninterested via my lack of actions.

ok...first things first...if you felt the need to step in front of some "weird" guy at a bar to get him away from her...and everyone seemed to think you 2 were dating...it's become quite apparent that there is "something going on between you 2." I put it in quotes because it's up for interpretation, but the general gist is that there are some feelings there. So you are kind of protecting her there.

Then later, she is being hassled and you tell her she's "on her own"...my view of things thus far are that there are feelings between you 2 and you effed it up by #1 hitting on her and not telling her in some way that you might be interested earlier and #2 not helping her when she asked.

Based on what you have said...I gather all this "weak" talk, protector stuff, and "not having feelings" is b.s. this is not a "girls are this way guys are that way" scenario...this is you actually having feelings for her and not doing anything about it...than, to top it off...you blew her off when she wanted your help.

Does this sound right?

 

[Spider-X]

by the way...my credentials for this thread are simple. I was one of those "nice guys" in high school and happened to meet a very sexy and edgy rocker chick with wonderful breasts sophomore year of high school (2001). We dated for 7 years from then...we made it through long distance and college...we never broke up...and we have now been married for over 1 year.

By "nice guy" i mean that I never played these drama relationship games people play with each other, i never treated her like crap just to get a reaction, i didn't try to look cool to her other friends to fit in, i was nothing but a gentleman with a good sense of humor, treated her with respect, and had incredibly spiky hair.

I am living proof that this "nice guys" stigma is pure B.S. and I am a plethora of knowledge on this topic...so please ask away.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

"It's Chris Brander ladies and gentlemen!"



But seriously Neil? You are better off telling her how you feel. And telling her the reason you didn't come to her rescue is because you didn't want to come across as a possessive, over protective weirdo.

 

[Spider-X]

"It's Chris Brander ladies and gentlemen!"

i literally have no idea what you are talking about...

Spoiler

But seriously Neil? You are better off telling her how you feel. And telling her the reason you didn't come to her rescue is because you didn't want to come across as a possessive, over protective weirdo.

agreed.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

ok...first things first...if you felt the need to step in front of some "weird" guy at a bar to get him away from her...and everyone seemed to think you 2 were dating...it's become quite apparent that there is "something going on between you 2." I put it in quotes because it's up for interpretation, but the general gist is that there are some feelings there. So you are kind of protecting her there.

Then later, she is being hassled and you tell her she's "on her own"...my view of things thus far are that there are feelings between you 2 and you effed it up by #1 hitting on her and not telling her in some way that you might be interested earlier and #2 not helping her when she asked.

Based on what you have said...I gather all this "weak" talk, protector stuff, and "not having feelings" is b.s. this is not a "girls are this way guys are that way" scenario...this is you actually having feelings for her and not doing anything about it...than, to top it off...you blew her off when she wanted your help.

Does this sound right?

Well I finally stepped in because he was literally creeping her out. She was not at all comfortable with the first guy that was trying to hit on her.

Later on we moved tables to go back with her friend and a group of people he was with. There some other drunk dude was trying to hit on her, and she didn't seem in the least bit upset about it, so I didn't really care.

As far as the guy outside of the restaurant at work, the reason why I said "you're on your own" is because the 2 were laughing and carrying on, so it seemed to me like she was flirting with him and having a good time.

As far as me having feelings for her, the most I did was tested the waters. About a week before Valentine's Day, I told her she needed to figure out something nice to do for me. She said okay. When I went to work the next week (on V-Day) I asked her if she had planned a nice dinner for me. She said no dinner. I had a bag of chocolates from her in my little area, but then again, she gave some to everybody. I've since seen her out on dates with other guys, and since there was never anything going on between us (at least anything overtly), I haven't said anything since. I figure she was either A.) not interested to begin with or B.) interested, but I ruined any chance with her by not "protecting" her.

I don't really have feelings for her. She's attractive, definitely, but I never felt anything outside of a friendly co-worker that I happened to grab some drinks with. It was more along the lines of "she's cute enough that I'd be interested if she was, but if she's not it's no skin off my neck"

If you want to call those "feelings", then perhaps you and I have different definitions of "feelings"? Everyone thought we were dating because we were sitting together at a bar. I've had plenty of people think I was dating someone who I was just friends with. In fact, I spent a lot of time, alone, with a woman who was engaged, when her fiance wasn't around. Everyone thought that her and I had something going on. We were just best friends, like brother and sister. No romantic feelings.

If I would have known or felt that she had some kind of interest in me, yes, I would have reacted differently in the situations. But having at that time no inclination that there was interest on her end, I didn't do anything.

 

[pyromaniac]

Straight men just fail at reading signals, even when they are spoken.

Neil, just because you aren't interested in her doesn't mean you couldn't step in and 'protect' her' particularly when she needed you to. It's pretty much straightforward, and for someone who claims to be that, you spent a lot of time trying to break down any meaning behind every single potential signal you think you perceive.

You protect because you're mates. And what's this about missing her birthday? Go as a mate, at least outside of the 'football talk bar' space you have been confined to, and there's nothing wrong with doing that. Particularly when you don't have any feelings for her, so you should approach from a friendship view accordingly. If, ie Valentine's Day reciprocation fell through, there had been no expectations as to romance of any kind anyway. Just asking her to do something nice for you. And she didn't. Much in the same way you missed her birthday.

Even if she doesn't have romantic feelings for you, which according to you, is no big loss as you lack any yourself, she definitely likes you comparably more to those guys who are often hitting on her. That should be enough. The real question is, how much emphasis on that friendship do you value, to push beyond that conversational 'acquaintance' space? It probably sounds to me your friend is relatively newly acquainted, which is okay. Time always deepens good friendships, but so does effort.

I haven't read the thread at all but I see that nice guys approach females with the notion of friendship and go about it before it seems too late. Yes, I'd say it depends on boundaries and being unsure of extending them and whatnot, but that's why if the more time you spend with them, the more close you'll get , and thus comes more possibilities of opening up with one another (and being able to read more signs almost accurately), if you're that comfortable enough.

 

[pyromaniac]

Hmm.

Well I always noticed that when in a relationship, you shouldn't be around your bf or gf all the time every moment. I know some people whjo are like that. It could be either one of them. And that's bad. You may think it's good, spending all the time with her will strengthen the relationship, but it doesn't.

My mom told me when her and my dad were dating, they were together, but my dad told her straightr out, that he also wants his time with his friends so she can heve time with hers and theyn they can get together on weekends, weekdays for the friends. That's how it worked out. And I absolutely believe this works. I give credit to my dad for saying it straight out, though my mom did completely understand and agreed, and it helped them alot.

I'm starting to wonder if when it's a good time for me to get a gf. I'd actually like to have a job and drive (which I am now) until I get one. Women like men with stuff like that right? It means they take initiative?

Your father was right about relationship space versus friend space versus private space. That's important, because you establish boundaries particularly from early on. There's no harm in saying it because you too have your own life, and it was fine before someone entered the picture.

As for women liking go getters, that is true to an extent, if only in a big picture context. Relationships take a while to start after all. But they also like the potential, charm, and... great sex.

 

[pyromaniac]

on the discovery channel right now 9pm "the science of sex appeal" is on its interesting...

women prefer men with lower voices...that's what there talking about now. and men prefer women with higher voices...they actually have higher estrogen and are younger.

next there gonna show cars? wonder what that means, making up for something i bet.

Deep voices are certainly sexy. I had a geography teacher in school, who to this day, remains the placeholder of having the most sexy voice ever. Mmm.

But I'm digressing. Nice guys are a thousand times better than the other kind! That's pretty much the consensus on here, right?

 

[Erzengel]

Nice vs. Jerk? I would assume yes.

But this thread went deeper, challenging so called nice guys who have ulterior motives therefore not making them nice guys.

Nice guys who sit on their hands waiting for opportunities who are in essence fools.

And nice guys who feel they are entitled to gfs, etc. just because they feel they are nice guys.

 

[terry78]

Nice vs. Jerk? I would assume yes.

But this thread went deeper, challenging so called nice guys who have ulterior motives therefore not making them nice guys.

Nice guys who sit on their hands waiting for opportunities who are in essence fools.

And nice guys who feel they are entitled to gfs, etc. just because they feel they are nice guys.

Do like the old tv show cliche and just ignore the girls you like. That always gets them.

 

[JStorm]

I find this argument is, usually, held by the younger gentlemen.

First, allow me to start with - some girls like the "bad boy." Face it, except it, get over it. Other girls don't even try, and begin their relationship quest by dating "safe," of you will.

Some ladies will flat out say it - "I like bad boys." Some women will hide the fact - "I don't know why I attract bad boys," etc, etc. The list could go on.

However, I am a guy and those thoughts can be held as presumptuous.

I can only give an account from past experience - as a male.

I was the nice guy, in high school. Not the guy whom allowed people to walk over him; but the guy who opened the door, who was apalled at sexist comments, whom acted on his feelings, rather than a balance of logic, thought, love, and emotion.

Upon college, I learned that most of the girls I encountered wanted to experiment. Thusly, adding to my demise. Sure, one could argue that I was picking the wrong girls. But I use this argument to make my point. Most of the university girls didn't want the "bad guy," they wanted "Mr. RIGHT NOW."

They appreciated my attitude and honor; but, in the end, they saw a guy who wanted to settle down - at the age of 21. To most, I believe, that is a turn off. Yes - some ladies do want a guy to be nice, and be ready to settle down. But I believe that the ladies in question see a nice guy as "trying to hard, and not really understanding himself."

A few years passed and I became callous and a little rude. WOW - what did I find, girls began to like those ideals. Keep in mind, I WAS NOT the "bad guy." I was still good-old-JStorm; but when I acted like I didn't care - a la "not trying to hard" - I noticed results.

Again, I DID NOT act like an ass.

Example:

A college friend, whom I had no attraction to, and I had a little pool side encounter. I came out of the pool house with some drinks and food. She asked if that was for her. I told her to get her own, and be gone. She laughed and said that was the sexist thing I've ever said to her.

That example is not definitive. However, it took me back, I grabbed two beers, and asked her to sit down.

We spent a good thirty minutes talking about said "encounter." She explained that I was always the mature one, the nice one, the guy ALL the girls depended on to make the right choice. When I acted out, on my own, and refuse to "open the door," she noticed a side of me that was independent.

She explained, "you were not rude, because I know you better than that." But when I told her to "shove off," she noticed the attitude change and the "my day doesn't revolve around you" mentality.

I pondered this idea and put it into use, the following months.

Did I stop being who I was? Absolutely not. But I noticed the difference between "may I buy you a drink?" and "you look like you need a beer." actions.

Difference: The first action was reactive. The second was proactive.

Reactive: Assuming that a lady wants you to buy her a drink, is also assuming conversation, phone number exchange, etc, etc. "Can I buy you a beer?" "You can; but do I want to drink it with you?"

Proactive: "You look thirsty." I know, cheesy - but bare with me. Ordering another drink, in which the lady already has - no I did not take notes from "Hitch" - and sitting down with her, as the drink arrives, shows initiative.

I even used the old "the drink is from the gentlemen" routine. Sometimes one needs to let the thought simmer. I've bought drinks for ladies, and didn't even go over to them. Just gave them a "nod" and went about my night, with my friends. Some nights, the girl just nodded back, others she did nothing and drank and left, and others she took the drink and walked over to me. Further, others she took the drink and we began the "eye contact game," until I walked over, by the time she finished.


What does that mean? Nothing. It is a proactive game. Yes - I said it: GAME!!

Being confident does not equal arrogance. Being forceful does not equal being a jerk.

In the end, I learned that being myself was the missing factor. I was raised to be "nice," as one should be. But thinking that IS ALL, is presumptuous.

One should gauge a situation.

It's swing and miss. Three strikes and your out.

The misconception that most "nice guys" have is "I tried; she didn't except; she most like "bad guys"."

NO!! You tried and quit. Three strikes and your out - yes. But you've got a whole nine innings, within a long season.


Sorry for the baseball analogies. But - meh.

Again, not definitive - just my personal experience.

 

[Eggyman]

Now th^t, my friend, is a 'shared moment'.

Great post.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Jstorm, I must agree and say that is a great post

 

[amazingfantasy15]

Well I finally stepped in because he was literally creeping her out. She was not at all comfortable with the first guy that was trying to hit on her.

Later on we moved tables to go back with her friend and a group of people he was with. There some other drunk dude was trying to hit on her, and she didn't seem in the least bit upset about it, so I didn't really care.

As far as the guy outside of the restaurant at work, the reason why I said "you're on your own" is because the 2 were laughing and carrying on, so it seemed to me like she was flirting with him and having a good time.

Well, if she's asking for your help, that means she's not having a good time. She might have just been humoring the guy, hoping he'd take a hint she's not interested, then saw you and thought you might be able to help get rid of the guy. You did make a huge mistake there.

As far as me having feelings for her, the most I did was tested the waters. About a week before Valentine's Day, I told her she needed to figure out something nice to do for me. She said okay. When I went to work the next week (on V-Day) I asked her if she had planned a nice dinner for me. She said no dinner. I had a bag of chocolates from her in my little area, but then again, she gave some to everybody. I've since seen her out on dates with other guys, and since there was never anything going on between us (at least anything overtly), I haven't said anything since. I figure she was either A.) not interested to begin with or B.) interested, but I ruined any chance with her by not "protecting" her.

You completely screwed up on this one. If you wanted to do something with her on Valentine's you should have made plans. Second, why should she do something nice for you, when from your post says you had absolutely no plans to do something nice for her. Testing the waters isn't asking her to do something nice, it's asking her out.

I don't really have feelings for her. She's attractive, definitely, but I never felt anything outside of a friendly co-worker that I happened to grab some drinks with. It was more along the lines of "she's cute enough that I'd be interested if she was, but if she's not it's no skin off my neck"

If you want to call those "feelings", then perhaps you and I have different definitions of "feelings"? Everyone thought we were dating because we were sitting together at a bar. I've had plenty of people think I was dating someone who I was just friends with. In fact, I spent a lot of time, alone, with a woman who was engaged, when her fiance wasn't around. Everyone thought that her and I had something going on. We were just best friends, like brother and sister. No romantic feelings.

If I would have known or felt that she had some kind of interest in me, yes, I would have reacted differently in the situations. But having at that time no inclination that there was interest on her end, I didn't do anything.

The fact that you wanted something on Valentine's and were disappointed when you didn't get it shows you do have feelings. Problem is, you've lost your opportunity, you had a good number of opportunities to change this relationship but screwed everyone of them up. Not showing up to her birthday, asking her to do something for you on Valentine's while not planning to do anything for her, not helping her out (as a friend) when she asked you. From your posts there were plenty of times/opportunities to change this, this isn't a case of you being a "nice guy" it's a case of you ignoring missing obvious signals.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

I used to think the same thing about "nice guys finishing last with girls."

The key, at least from my perspective, is to not come off as needy or a weirdo when it comes to particular girls. I won't lie when I say that a lot of my issues in the past came from being overweight and not having any confidence in myself. I was and still am a very nice guy, but what I was lacking before I made up for now since I started working out.

I feel it's very important to have confidence and don't be afraid to be yourself. If you're a nice guy and she says no, why get upset? Why feel like there's something wrong with you? If she wants to be with a guy who wishes death on his parents, verbally and physically abuses her, and only wants her for one thing then it's her loss, it absolutely has nothing to do with you and "nice guys" need to realize that.

There's no need to change for anyone, it is, however very important to maintain confidence and carry yourself like you give a damn though.

For example, me and three of my bodybuilding buddies were out at Applebee's for dinner after working out and we go there quite a bit due to the great food and the very, very attractive waitresses that serve us. One time a girl accidently bumped into my leg and she was like "oh my god, I'm so sorry" and touched the leg she accidently bumped. I looked at her and quite seriously said with confidence and humor "Now you made the other one jealous!".

Needless to say I continued giving her a hard time(joking wise) and she gave me her number. Nothing will come of it obviously, but I feel now it's best to not rush things and just let that special someone find you.

 

[terry78]

I used to think the same thing about "nice guys finishing last with girls."

The key, at least from my perspective, is to not come off as needy or a weirdo when it comes to particular girls. I won't lie when I say that a lot of my issues in the past came from being overweight and not having any confidence in myself. I was and still am a very nice guy, but what I was lacking before I made up for now since I started working out.

I feel it's very important to have confidence and don't be afraid to be yourself. If you're a nice guy and she says no, why get upset? Why feel like there's something wrong with you? If she wants to be with a guy who wishes death on his parents, verbally and physically abuses her, and only wants her for one thing then it's her loss, it absolutely has nothing to do with you and "nice guys" need to realize that.

There's no need to change for anyone, it is, however very important to maintain confidence and carry yourself like you give a damn though.

For example, me and three of my bodybuilding buddies were out at Applebee's for dinner after working out and we go there quite a bit due to the great food and the very, very attractive waitresses that serve us. One time a girl accidently bumped into my leg and she was like "oh my god, I'm so sorry" and touched the leg she accidently bumped. I looked at her and quite seriously said with confidence and humor "Now you made the other one jealous!".

Needless to say I continued giving her a hard time(joking wise) and she gave me her number. Nothing will come of it obviously, but I feel now it's best to not rush things and just let that special someone find you.

This would have been much more proactive if she touched your crotch instead of your leg. Planning makes all the difference, brah.

 

[LadyVader]

I feel it's very important to have confidence and don't be afraid to be yourself. If you're a nice guy and she says no, why get upset? Why feel like there's something wrong with you? If she wants to be with a guy who wishes death on his parents, verbally and physically abuses her, and only wants her for one thing then it's her loss, it absolutely has nothing to do with you and "nice guys" need to realize that.

Uhm, that's a little extreme. She's probably saying no just because she doesn't feel a connection to you, not because she's waiting for a jerk to sweep her off her feet. That's like me saying that all the guys that are not interested in me want some **** that will steal all their money and spend it on shoes.

And you don't want that do you? Please God, tell me you don't want that!

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Uhm, that's a little extreme. She's probably saying no just because she doesn't feel a connection to you, not because she's waiting for a jerk to sweep her off her feet. That's like me saying that all the guys that are not interested in me want some **** that will steal all their money and spend it on shoes.

And you don't want that do you? Please God, tell me you don't want that!

That is very true. I do agree with you. In some cases she says no because she isn't interested at all. I am mainly speaking on the possibility that she says no because she wants the "bad boy".

But definitely, in some cases she says no because she isn't into that guy at all. I knew a guy who literally lost his mind and almost started stalking a girl because she said no. Not because she wanted a bad boy or anything, but she really wasn't interested, he still holds a grudge against her to this very day.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

This would have been much more proactive if she touched your crotch instead of your leg. Planning makes all the difference, brah.

Possibly. I made her blush quite a few times and we had fun talking, but I'm not desperate or needy for a girlfriend at this moment. I am very happy with my life and sometimes its best to just wait.