OFFICIAL: Hugo Weaving is Red Skull - Part 6/6/44

Discussion in 'Captain America: The First Avenger' started by Thread Manager, Jan 26, 2011.

  1. Quasimod0

    Quasimod0 Bell-Ringer

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    He was a good guy pretty much the whole movie. We felt for him and even rooted for him. So he wasnt a villain..yet.
     
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  2. The Overlord

    The Overlord Well-Known Member

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    I thought movie Red Skull was pretty lame. In the comics he was driven by hate and malice blaming the world for his own crappy childhood. In this movie he is another generic power mad megalomaniac who likes power for power's sake. The comic Red Skull was actually evil and scary, in the movie he comes off as a generic James bond villain.
     
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  3. Godzilla2000

    Godzilla2000 Dollar Store Diva

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    We have barely even learned much of the Red Skull's past. Who's to say that he won't be in a future sequel where they'll delve more into his psychological makeup? I'm betting he will become an Avengers villain as well. You have to keep some character development for future sequels you know. I'm sure we will see Steve Rogers facing Red Skull in modern times.
     
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  4. JAK®

    JAK® Upstart

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    The movie was about Steve. As part of his character arc, there needed to be a villain that was absolutely evil. Steve doesn't like bullies. So it fit the narrative of the film. But it is also clear that Red Skull isn't dead, so he can return in another film, and then we can learn more about him.
     
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  5. Ultra Lantern

    Ultra Lantern In Darkest Night!

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    I perfer the mainstream version.
     
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  6. The Overlord

    The Overlord Well-Known Member

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    Except the problem was Red Skull wasn't a an absolutely evil villain in the movie, he came as a really generic villain, not a truly evil one. Sebastian Shaw in X-Men First Class seemed like a far more evil Nazi style villain then Red Skull. When Shaw murdered Magneto's mom, you felt that this was a truly evil character, Red Skull never had a moment like that in the movie, where he did something truly evil. Nothing the Skull did in this movie seemed as evil as Shaw's worst actions in X-Men First Class.
     
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  7. Juicy J

    Juicy J Well-Known Member

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    While I agree the Red Skull never had one big defining moment that really portrayed his villainy, you can't say he wasn't absolutely evil. He had little bits here and there that demonstrated his disregard for human life and his ambition to rule the world. He killed his own officers and other nazis without hesitation and didn't let anyone or anything get in his way.
     
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  8. Quasimod0

    Quasimod0 Bell-Ringer

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    Red Skull killed a few people, I'm sure they were parents. lol. Thats pretty evil. He also wanted to destroy major cities and kill millions of people. If thats not evil, then idk what is. He didnt need to do anything sick. Wasnt that kinda film.
     
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  9. Juicy J

    Juicy J Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts exactly, he was sufficiently evil.
     
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  10. The Overlord

    The Overlord Well-Known Member

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    But in the comics, what defines the Red Skull is a wiliness to do twisted and sick things, that's his character is about.

    Who did he kill that were supposed to care about, that random henchman? Every villain usually manages to kill a few people, in the movies, Magento and Ra's Al Ghul kill a few people, that doesn't make them pure evil. The thing that makes an act truly evil in fiction is to have an act with a real impact, where the vileness has an impact on the characters and the viewers. Shaw killing Magneto's mom has far more of an impact then Red Skull's rather generic acts of villainy.

    He didn't succeed in killing millions of people or destroying major cities, trying and failing to do that isn't nearly as evil as succeeding in doing something evil. Failing to do it, just makes for a rather generic villain. Saying Red Skull is truly evil because he tried to do something truly evil, but failed to do so doesn't work, almost every villain out there has tried to do something evil and failed to do so. Heck 80s cartoon villains have tried to enact devastating plans to take over the world and have failed, I don't think they are truly evil based solely on effort.


    He was about as evil as a goofy James Bond villain, who wants to rule the world and offs his own minions, that is not absolutely evil, that's just standard villainy. Absolutely evil are acts that go beyond that. Red Skull in the comics went far beyond that, he wasn't just interested in just power, he had a cruel and sadistic side and would commit horrible acts that wouldn't necessarily bring him power, because they amused him.

    Except the Red Skull is supposed to pure evil, not sufficiently evil. Take that away and the core of the character is gone.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 25, 2011
  11. Shadowlord X

    Shadowlord X Well-Known Member

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    Dude, relax. We get it, you wanted to see the Red skull do sick and twisted things.

    The movie is called CAPTAIN AMERICA. It's about the journey of frail Steve Rogers to supersoldier, then to propaganda symbol/publicity figure, then to hero, and then to a legend.

    It isn't a movie about the Red Skull. Villains are tradilitionally simply foils for the story of the hero, as is the case here. Some franchises may fool people into thinking it should be the other way around but that's not the case.

    Maybe you can start a petition to get a Red Skull cameo in Hostel III?
     
    #661
  12. The Overlord

    The Overlord Well-Known Member

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    Yes because clearly if I wanted Red Skull do something really evil, I want this movie to be Hostel, that's exactly what I mean. :whatever:

    Sebastian Shaw and Joker did really evil things in PG-13 films, I don't see why the Skull couldn't have done the same.

    I know this movie is about Captain America, but you still need a compelling villain to carry the story and I did not find Red Skull compelling at all, he is just generic. I didn't care about the conflict between Cap and the Skull, because there was no reason to, nothing about the Skull made him stand out from any other villain and he lacked the more interesting rivalry they had in the comics. If I don't care about the Skull in this movie, why should I care about him or his conflict with Cap in a future film? They would have make him way more sinister in a sequel for me to want to see him in a sequel. Frankly I thought the villains were so weak in this film, that is a big part of why instead of thinking this movie is great, I only thought it was okay. The Captain America stuff was fine, but a lot of the other elements in this film were very weak. This movie felt like it was playing it very safe, with almost no Nazis and laser guns often replacing real guns. It felt like a GI Joe cartoon.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 25, 2011
  13. The Overlord

    The Overlord Well-Known Member

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    I hope if the Red Skull shows up in a sequel, he will be scarier and more evil then in this film, more similar to his comic book counterpart.
     
    #663
  14. marcvader

    marcvader Lurker #1

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    I think he would because of what he went through. Imagine seeing firsthand the vast possibility of power he just witnessed first hand. He definitely would want to possess it at all costs.
     
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  15. Chris Wallace

    Chris Wallace LET'S DO A HEADCOUNT...

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    "Captain America! This is so exciting! I am a great fan of your films!" Love that line.
     
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  16. AVEITWITHJAMON

    AVEITWITHJAMON Cloud kicks ass

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    ^He did have some good lines, and a fantastic actor playing him, but I was REALLY dissapointed in him as a villain. I mean, I found Weaving as Megatron more menacing than RS, he just didnt seem to be able to really let go and so I found his performance REALLY boring.

    The scene you mention Chris is easily the best scene in the movie for, when Cap and RS first meet, after the movie goes downhill if you ask me, and thats a lot down to RS not being interesting at all IMO.
     
    #666
  17. kaijunexus

    kaijunexus Marvel Cinematic Universe

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    I don't know if this has been answered before, but is movie Red Skull's entire body red, or just his head? As far as I can remember, he had gloves on the entire film, so you couldn't even see his hands...
     
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  18. Chris Wallace

    Chris Wallace LET'S DO A HEADCOUNT...

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    They never made it clear.
     
    #668
  19. Steve Holt

    Steve Holt STEVE HOLT!

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    lol we all know what you really wanna ask...... just ask hahahahaha
     
    #669
  20. The Overlord

    The Overlord Well-Known Member

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    But that's what I don't like about movie Red Skull, all he cares about is power, he is a generic power mad villain and kinda boring really. Comic Book Red Skull did horrible things, even if they didn't bring him power, he liked doing bad things because he liked hurting people. That's the Red Skull I like to see, a morally repulsive psychopathic monster, not some generic power mad James Bond villain. I think comic book Red Skull was more scary then his movie counterpart, because he was driven by hate and malice, rather then just a lust for power.

    If Red Skull just talks about how all he wants is power in his next appearance, I don't want to see him again. If Red Skull isn't truly evil like his comic book counterpart, a real monster instead of a generic villain, I don't see the point of using him again.


    Red Skull should be more like Hitler and less like Cobra Commander from the GI Joe cartoon.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 6, 2012
  21. AVEITWITHJAMON

    AVEITWITHJAMON Cloud kicks ass

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    I think thats part of what made me not enjoy the character like I should, he just didnt seem brutally evil enough, he just seemed very panto in his portrayal and the fact that Weaving wasnt really allowed to let loose at all meant his performance suffered also.

    I was expecting a lot from Hugo Weaving as The Red Skull, and ended up being very dissapointed, if we do see him again, let Weaving cut loose and we will see a much better portrayal IMO.
     
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  22. marcvader

    marcvader Lurker #1

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    Well to be fair early comicbook Red Skull was the way he was depicted in the movie, in line with the retro vibe. Modern writing sensibilities and tastes made him what he is today.
     
    #672
  23. AVEITWITHJAMON

    AVEITWITHJAMON Cloud kicks ass

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    ^Really? Whenever I have read a comic-book with him in (dont read Cap but seen him in other heroes story's) he comes accross a lot more menacing than he did in the movie.

    He just didnt seem a threat or interesting at all, he wasnt sympathetic and at the same time he wasnt the evil sadistic guy you love to hate ala The Joker, Sebastian Shaw, Megatron or Deacon Frost. He was just, there.
     
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  24. Spider-Fan

    Spider-Fan SHHFFL 2014 Champion

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    This movie had a retro action movie vibe to it, and was a homage to old style action serials much like Indiana Jones is, mixed with elements of the MCU (ala Cosmic Cube, etc). I loved the vibe of the movie, and the Red Skull came off like a Bond-esque villain, which suited the tone of the movie. Had the Red Skull been as evil as Hitler, the tone would have changed. I think the tone for this movie worked very well, and Red Skull was a very effective villain in it.
     
    #674
  25. AVEITWITHJAMON

    AVEITWITHJAMON Cloud kicks ass

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    I loved the tone of the movie i'll agree that it was in the old style serial movies, but cant agree about Red Skull, you have this great actor playing him and you barely give him anything to do, it was really dissapointing, I just didnt find him menacing at all, he probably did worse things in the movie than Loki or Stane did but yet they were much more menacing and much better villains.
     
    #675

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