First Avenger OFFICIAL: Hugo Weaving is Red Skull - Part 6/6/44

[kedrell]

After seeing the film some more and chewing on it a bit, I'm going to rank RS thusly:

1) Iron Monger
2) Red Skull
3) Gen. Stryker(X2 only)
4) Loki
5) Whiplash
6) Magneto(Mckellan)
7) Abomination
8) Doc Ock
9) Fassbender Magneto(good performance but he's only THE BAD GUY for about 5 minutes)
10) Mystique(old version)

 

[kedrell]

Why do people like Doc Oc so much? I was bored to tears with him.

I sure don't but the performance wasn't aweful or anything. He's the best the Raimi movies ever had but that ain't saying much.

 

[ciscostudent561]

Skull was boring. Apocalypse doesn't want to see the world burn he's just an avid believer of only the strong survive and that we must eliminate the weaker ones as they slow down the advancement of life.

Joker wanted to see the world burn but he had an anarchy based logic that made him interesting. I just don't feel that skulls story was told to the best of his ability. His revolt to hitler was a bit boring. He barely gave the cap any problem at all... Rogers obliterated all ten of his camps in a wink.

He did nothing to even slow down the cap.

Ras burnt down Wayne mansion
Joker killed like everybody, and batman couldnot even find him for over half the movie
Stryker attacked the x mansion, imprisoned and experimented on mutants
Goblin attacked aunt may.. (damn that's pretty jacked up)

List goes on... Red skull couldve been made more interesting and could've been kore of a challenge to Cap.

Yes buddy died but it wasn't at the hands of skull nor was skull even involved in that battle

 

[kedrell]

I found nothing interesting about the Joker, but then I detest laughing, cackling villains. It's such a cheap trick and one of those lowest-common denominator approaches that I hate. I detest Dafoe's Green Goblin for the very same reason.

Ra's is actually one of only 3 DC screen villains I liked(Hackman's Luthor and Stamp's Zod being the other two).

Stryker was my top Marvel villain on screen before 2008 rolled around. Very good there.

Red Skull basically want's the exact same thing that Hitler does and for the same reason but just wants it to be himself that rules and not Adolph. And I'm fine with that. I love how initially he's not involved with Cap at all. And the obliteration of all his factories is done in a montage and probably occured over the course of several years of the war. They purposefully left those gaps so they could go back in future films and fill them in.

 

[Flemm]

Sir how can you say that he was a boring meglomaniac???

He pretty much is a standard megalomaniac, though, at least as portrayed in the film. A well-acted one, to be sure, but that's all there is to the character.

That's ok, as he is mostly there to contrast with Cap (the guy who wants strength only to serve others). It works in context, but it's nothing special.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Octopus looked cool but I would have preferred him to actually be villainous instead of a nice guy.

 

[Rowsdower!]

I loved the Red Skull in this but there were times when he spoke that I couldn't help laughing because he looked like Michael Jackson to me. t:

 

[Juha]

Ra's is actually one of only 3 DC screen villains I liked(Hackman's Luthor and Stamp's Zod being the other two).

Cillian Murphy/Scarecrow! Easily my favourite incarnation of the character and a chilling performance!

Least favorite filmed villains:

1. The Absorbing Man
2. Green Goblin I and II
3. Skinny Venom
4. The Kingpin
5. Galactus

I demand an explanation! The movie was certainly flawed but I think Michael Clarke Duncan did good.

 

[The Guard]

As people have already mentioned, The Red Skull had almost no depth whatsoever. I'm not even sure why he wanted to rule the world. The "God" angle was briefly mentioned early on, then once in the middle, and then seen in his final moments with The Cosmic Cube, and that was about it. Weaving's simmering, reserved performance absolutely elevated this villain. He was fantastic.

 

[Rock Sexton]

As people have already mentioned, The Red Skull had almost no depth whatsoever. I'm not even sure why he wanted to rule the world. The "God" angle was briefly mentioned early on, then once in the middle, and then seen in his final moments with The Cosmic Cube, and that was about it. Weaving's simmering, reserved performance absolutely elevated this villain. He was fantastic.

He wanted to rule the world because he's a mad man. I mean what other motivation should there be? He's known to be obsessed with the occult and the God's even more than Hitler ever was. The talk between Erskine and Steve setup how insane he was. Not to mention when Zola was being interrogated and mentions that, "When you have the power of the Gods, only the world will do." It was reiterated later by Col. Phillips. Not to mention we saw what lengths he's willing to go to when he turns on the Nazis.

 

[kedrell]

Cillian Murphy/Scarecrow! Easily my favourite incarnation of the character and a chilling performance!

Oh yeah, I forgot about him. But then that's because he was overshadowed pretty much and didn't have a whole lot to do. So 4 DC villains I liked in film.

 

[kedrell]

I'd also say that Tobey Jones's Arnim Zola was probably the best underling to a chief villain that I've ever seen in a CBM. He just played that part virtually to perfection.

 

[RedSkull]

yeah he did, though I didn't like how he sold him out. It was weird how at times he was totally supportive and serving of Red Skull but at other times he seemed hesitant

 

[kedrell]

He's self serving. It fit him, IMO. But then I know little of him from the comics.

 

[Project862006]

he probably knew what tommy lee jones said "he was gonna kill you sooner or later"

 

[Schlosser85]

Does Weaving have a lot of screentime, or not enough?

 

[kedrell]

He has a decent amount, IMO. I didn't leave thinking I had been denied a good amount by him. Plus his end fight with Cap is one of the best end fights I've seen in a superhero film(loved the use of zero-G).

 

[Flemm]

He has enough screen time, but I would say that the role is a bit thin.

The studio could potentially have played up the creepiness of the character a bit more, I think. There's a little suggestion of that possibility in one scene where Zola is a bit freaked out by seeing his skull face.

Also, some of his dialogue is a bit obvious and eye-roll inducing when it is intended to underline just how awesome our hero is. In the last fight scene, for example, he says, "You just don't quit, do you?" And Rogers says, "Nope." or something to that effect. It's a bit cheesy, and I think it would have been better to just let Cap's actions speak for themselves.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Also, some of his dialogue is a bit obvious and eye-roll inducing when it is intended to underline just how awesome our hero is. In the last fight scene, for example, he says, "You just don't quit, do you?" And Rogers says, "Nope." or something to that effect. It's a bit cheesy, and I think it would have been better to just let Cap's actions speak for themselves.

Hahah reminded me of Richard Roeper's review. I was cracking up when he mocked that "Nope" line. It was pretty dull though.

 

[WildcatNC]

He has enough screen time, but I would say that the role is a bit thin.

The studio could potentially have played up the creepiness of the character a bit more, I think. There's a little suggestion of that possibility in one scene where Zola is a bit freaked out by seeing his skull face.

Also, some of his dialogue is a bit obvious and eye-roll inducing when it is intended to underline just how awesome our hero is. In the last fight scene, for example, he says, "You just don't quit, do you?" And Rogers says, "Nope." or something to that effect. It's a bit cheesy, and I think it would have been better to just let Cap's actions speak for themselves.

I see what you are saying and I could have done with a few better lines as well. I also see what they were doing with the "pulp" feel of it, which will seem cheesy at times.

 

[Flemm]

I see what you are saying and I could have done with a few better lines as well. I also see what they were doing with the "pulp" feel of it, which will seem cheesy at times.

Yeah, and anyway it's a minor point. There's a fine line: obviously, you want the audience to see how awesome the hero is and identify with him. However, I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to have the main antagonist join the chorus of admiration.

For example, in Loki's last confrontation with Thor (which I actually prefer to the scene in Cap, though they are of roughly the same quality overall), Loki is basically mocking him throughout.

I'd much rather a Red Skull who perceives Rogers as a pathetic weakling who is unworthy of the gift he has been given than a Red Skull who admires Cap's tenacity.

 

[WildcatNC]

Yeah, and anyway it's a minor point. There's a fine line: obviously, you want the audience to see how awesome the hero is and identify with him. However, I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to have the main antagonist join the chorus of admiration.

For example, in Loki's last confrontation with Thor (which I actually prefer to the scene in Cap, though they are of roughly the same quality overall), Loki is basically mocking him throughout.

I'd much rather a Red Skull who perceives Rogers as a pathetic weakling who is unworthy of the gift he has been given than a Red Skull who admires Cap's tenacity.

I didn't get the sense he admired him for that at all. It was more of a stubborn/dumb comment to me. He did feel a certain "kinship" I think since they were the only two of their kind. He definitely saw Cap as the "weak" one though.

 

[Flemm]

I didn't get the sense he admired him for that at all. It was more of a stubborn/dumb comment to me.

It's a valid interpretation, but the line was so obviously in the script to underline Cap's awesomeness to the audience that it made the Red Skull seem a bit too much like he had joined the cheerleading squad (at least that was my initial reaction).

 

[GhostPoet]

I didn't get the sense he admired him for that at all. It was more of a stubborn/dumb comment to me. He did feel a certain "kinship" I think since they were the only two of their kind. He definitely saw Cap as the "weak" one though.

You are correct. There was a certain kinship there...but Red Skull saw him more as the weaker, failed attempt and he saw himself as perfection. The serum after all enhances everything about a person...it enhanced his Nazi ideals.

 

[Supasnake]

I understand the points being made against Red Skull, but one of the enduring things about the Captain America movie is that it embraces it's concept, which is more of a pulp feel to it. Captain America doesn't need to have all the angst of say a Batman to be a good super hero. And Red Skull doesn't need all the complex motives to be a good super villain. He had the insanity, the willpower, and a performance that solidified that awesome old school vibe.

That being said, I listed Loki and Stryker above Red Skull cause their motivations are more interesting. I still love that end scene exchange between Loki and Thor.