Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - Part 17

[Roose Bolton]

Well Sean Bean is probably one of my favorite actors ever and that's by and large one of the best death scenes he's done in his long, death-filled career (It's his personal favorite as well) so I think that's still my top pick in this series.

Gandalf's death, for me at least, is lessoned by the fact that he comes back and stays very much a force in the films. It was a great scene, preceeded by one of the most memorable scenes in cinema, but as a deeply stinging death scene...it doesn't quite punch me in the feels like it did upon first viewing.

Theoden was cool, and it was good to see him go out comforted by his niece. They handled it well and I enjoyed it, especially the call back "I know your face" moment. I liked it a lot and thought it added gravity to the victory during that big scene.

As for the latter three....well I didn't overly care for Fili or Kili, but Thorin was essentially the dueteragonist of the Hobbit trilogy, portrayed amazingly by Richard Armitage. The character went through a long journey, had his ups and his downs, but finally achieved a really heroic and poignant end. The acting in that scene between him and Martin Freeman was heart wrenching, and I'll admit I got choked up, especially with the final summation from Bilbo "He was...my friend." yeah, I think having gone through a trilogy of movies with this character, watching his fall and rise....I think that was a pretty good end to his arc.

So while Boromir might still be the top for me, Thorin's is a close, close second.

 

[Herolee10]

Posting it just once more for the new page....

So folks, now that we've completed the "Hobbit" Trilogy, if you were to look back at the LOTR trilogy as well, which protagonist had the better "death scene" (sendoff) as a whole? Things to factor/consider would be the execution, no pun intended, of their respective sequence and the "feels" that it brought upon.lol

BOROMIR (The Fellowship of the Ring)

GANDALF (The Fellowship of the Ring)

THEODEN (The Return of the King)

THORIN, FILI, & KILI (The Battle of Five Armies)

 

[regwec]

I think it has to be Boromir, due to Sean's brilliant performance and the way that it perfectly sets up the cliff hanger at the end of the film, which throws everything into uncertainty before TTT.

 

[titansupes]

Definitely between Boromir and Gandalf, and I too shall give it to Boromir.

 

[CapedCrusader14]

Boromir all the way.

 

[Iceman]

Boromir.

While I was reading the book I always thought Frodo was going to die at the end which, if it happened, could have been the saddest death.

 

[InCali]

Rather than a straight up Silmarillion series, I wouldn't mind a The Children of Húrin mini-series or film.

I can see where you're coming from, but from my perspective (and I freely admit to being a purist) it's like picking one of the better apples from a tree and not really looking at where the apple came from (best analogy I can come up with at 5am). The history leading up to Hurin is so rich that I think singling it out would be a shame. Even before the 3 houses of men (Beor, Marach, and Haleth), the Elvish history, the Valar, the creation, etc. all play a key role in understanding where the House of Marach (Later call the House of Hador ie Hurin's kin) fit into the big picture. What about Beren and Luthien (clearly one of the most important, and maybe "the" most important story of the Silmarillion)? What about Tuor (the real hero of the House of Hador) and Gondolin?

It's probably academic because of the rights to the story problem, but I say a good, long mini-series starting from the beginning. Then on to Numenor and the beginning of the 2nd age. Keep going on from there. The Last Alliance and fall of Sauron. Heck, by the time we're done, we'll be ready for a new LotR trilogy.

Told you I was a purist......t:

EDIT: Of the six films we've got. Yes, definitely Boromir. As I think about it, his death sort of hearkens back to Turin and Tuor (though they were cousins and not brothers). The greatest warrior isn't always the greatest hero. Same with Boromir and Faramir. If we're talking about the Tolkien universe, there are soooooooo many tragic deaths, I don't think you could pick one out.

If you are talking about "tragic" deaths in the films, I would include Gollum/Smeagol. Boromir regained his greatness in the last moments of his life (a la Macbeth) whereas Gollum/Smeagol had been so long under the influence of the ring that he was wholly destroyed no matter how much he struggled. I always thought that Frodo pushed him into the fires of Orodruin as his finger was still in the ring and it made no sense that Gollum/Smeagol would stumble and fall.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I can see where you're coming from, but from my perspective (and I freely admit to being a purist) it's like picking one of the better apples from a tree and not really looking at where the apple came from (best analogy I can come up with at 5am). The history leading up to Hurin is so rich that I think singling it out would be a shame. Even before the 3 houses of men (Beor, Marach, and Haleth), the Elvish history, the Valar, the creation, etc. all play a key role in understanding where the House of Hador (ie Hurin's kin) fit into the big picture. What about Beren and Luthien (clearly one of the most important, and maybe "the" most important story of the Silmarillion)? What about Tuor (the real hero of the House of Hador) and Gondolin?

It's probably academic because of the rights to the story problem, but I say a good, long mini-series starting from the beginning. Then on to Numenor and the beginning of the 2nd age. Keep going on from there. The Last Alliance and fall of Sauron. Heck, by the time we're done, we'll be ready for a new LotR trilogy.

Told you I was a purist......t:

EDIT: Of the six films we've got. Yes, definitely Boromir. As I think about it, his death sort of hearkens back to Turin and Tuor (though they were cousins and not brothers). The greatest warrior isn't always the greatest hero. Same with Boromir and Faramir. If we're talking about the Tolkien universe, there are soooooooo many tragic deaths, I don't think you could pick one out.

It'd be lovely to go into the whole history of it all, but at the end of the day you've got to be pragmatic about these things. I mean how many tellings of the Book of Exodus go on into the history of Jacob or his father Isaac or Abraham before them? Very few, because Exodus works on it's own as it's own tale, and so does CoH.

Certainly the mythology and history is interesting and does inform on the story, but really when it comes down to it, you've got a story that's well-drawn, emotional, poignant and just the right size for an adaptation. There's less room for error, whether it be needless expansion radical condensing of the material. When it boils down to it, you want a film/series that is as true to the source material as possible, and I think with trying to adapt the whole Silmarillion you invite more room for failure.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Boromir's death still gets to me the most. Boromir in the films is one of the most interesting characters, an improvement from the book where I don't think Tolkien purists really argue against.

That shot of Boromir running to save Merry and Pippin from the Uruk's gets me every time. Redemption in one shot.

"I would have followed you my brother... my captain... my king." Now that's a character arc.

 

[Vartha]

Yeah all the Easter eggs are on the blu-rays as well.

I finally found where they're stored on the Bluray seeing as unlike dvd, the menu sections are different on the bluray.
Looked for easter eggs on the Hobbit extended blurays and didn't see anything

 

[Faora]

So folks, now that we've completed the "Hobbit" Trilogy, if you were to look back at the LOTR trilogy as well, which protagonist had the better "death scene" (sendoff) as a whole? Things to factor/consider would be the execution, no pun intended, of their respective sequence and the "feels" that it brought upon.lol

BOROMIR (The Fellowship of the Ring)

GANDALF (The Fellowship of the Ring)

THEODEN (The Return of the King)

THORIN, FILI, & KILI (The Battle of Five Armies)

Boromir the best.

 

[InCali]

It'd be lovely to go into the whole history of it all, but at the end of the day you've got to be pragmatic about these things. I mean how many tellings of the Book of Exodus go on into the history of Jacob or his father Isaac or Abraham before them? Very few, because Exodus works on it's own as it's own tale, and so does CoH.

Certainly the mythology and history is interesting and does inform on the story, but really when it comes down to it, you've got a story that's well-drawn, emotional, poignant and just the right size for an adaptation. There's less room for error, whether it be needless expansion radical condensing of the material. When it boils down to it, you want a film/series that is as true to the source material as possible, and I think with trying to adapt the whole Silmarillion you invite more room for failure.

That's the good thing about being a purist....I don't have to be pragmatic. The worst thing about it is that I never get exactly what I want. t: The best thing about the worst thing is that I don't let it get me down and am still able to enjoy movies I don't think are perfect (hey, works for me).

If I can't have it all, then I want to start with early Valinor and end after the flight of the Noldor and the the first battles of Middle Earth. It's a good foundation and a lead in for other stories in The Silmarillion. If I were to pick one story, it would be Beren and Luthien because it brings SO many different areas of the larger tale together. Thingol/Melian and Doriath, Melkor/Morgoth, Utumno, the Iron Crown, and those gems made by Feanor....what were they called? Oh yeah....The Silmarils. They were sort of important to the book (if you get my drift).

Also, there were some really cool characters like Carcharoth, Huan, etc. that would be really cool to see as well as the start of the line of "the" pivotal character in LotR (Aragorn). The tale of the house of Hurin is one of the best in The Silmarillion, but doesn't reach as far as the expounding of the Lay of Leithian. (IMO)

EDIT: Oops....this isn't The Silmarillion thread. Sorry.

 

[Drizzle]

Yeah, no contest there in regards to saddest death. Definitely Boromir. His packed the most emotion because it was his moment of redemption and he died a hero.

It was sad seeing the Fellowship's reactions to Gandalf's "death", but since he comes back that takes a lot of the weight off of it, although I will always prefer Gandalf the Grey to Gandalf the White.

Theoden's death, while sad, also comes as expected. Here's an old king charging into the greatest battle of his time. His wife and son are dead, and he doesn't have much to live for except the greater good of Middle Earth.

Fili's death would have had more weight to it had the character been more developed. There were maybe only three scenes where he was given any real development, the most important one being in DOS when he decided to stay with his brother in Lake Town. After Azog killed him, it was never touched upon again besides some pissed off reactions from Kili and Thorin.

Kili's death was pretty sad, even though his subplot with Tauriel was kind of unnecessary. At least it brought some more character development for one of the dwarves. If either Fili or Kili got as much development through three movies as Boromir did in one, those deaths would have had a much bigger impact.

Thorin's death was the saddest of The Hobbit trilogy, and second only to Boromir out of the entire series. Even though they didn't share a lot of heartfelt scenes together besides the ending of AUJ and the acorn scene in TBOTFA, I found his farewell to Bilbo to be very emotional, combined with Martin Freeman just absolutely killing it after Thorin passes away with his delivery of "Thorin, look! The eagles!" followed by the long whimpering cry. That just sold it for me.

 

[InCali]

Yeah, no contest there in regards to saddest death. Definitely Boromir. His packed the most emotion because it was his moment of redemption and he died a hero.

It was sad seeing the Fellowship's reactions to Gandalf's "death", but since he comes back that takes a lot of the weight off of it, although I will always prefer Gandalf the Grey to Gandalf the White.

Theoden's death, while sad, also comes as expected. Here's an old king charging into the greatest battle of his time. His wife and son are dead, and he doesn't have much to live for except the greater good of Middle Earth.

Fili's death would have had more weight to it had the character been more developed. There were maybe only three scenes where he was given any real development, the most important one being in DOS when he decided to stay with his brother in Lake Town. After Azog killed him, it was never touched upon again besides some pissed off reactions from Kili and Thorin.

Kili's death was pretty sad, even though his subplot with Tauriel was kind of unnecessary. At least it brought some more character development for one of the dwarves. If either Fili or Kili got as much development through three movies as Boromir did in one, those deaths would have had a much bigger impact.

Thorin's death was the saddest of The Hobbit trilogy, and second only to Boromir out of the entire series. Even though they didn't share a lot of heartfelt scenes together besides the ending of AUJ and the acorn scene in TBOTFA, I found his farewell to Bilbo to be very emotional, combined with Martin Freeman just absolutely killing it after Thorin passes away with his delivery of "Thorin, look! The eagles!" followed by the long whimpering cry. That just sold it for me.

REALLY well put and I agree with you. For me, I felt bad for Smeagol. He was just overwhelmed by a being so powerful that he never really had a chance like the others did. Remember how long he possessed the ring. Gandalf himself spoke to Frodo saying how sad Gollum's plight was when Frodo said he wished Bilbo had killed him (a VERY telling part of the book early on in the LotR). Had Bilbo not shown mercy, he would have been the one who fell to the spell of the ring.

 

[regwec]

Boromir's death still gets to me the most. Boromir in the films is one of the most interesting characters, an improvement from the book where I don't think Tolkien purists really argue against.

I think Tolkien leaves some things unsaid in his characters' relations with each other. In part, this is probably a product of his early 20th century English upbringing, where the stiff upper lip was enforced. It's impossible to imagine the Hobbits of the books hugging each other with the same abandon that they do in the movies, and Boromir's death, as originally written, shows a similar emotional reticence. I don't think that makes it any less moving; modern readers just have to read between the lines somewhat.

One aspect of Boromir's death that I wish the movie had preserved is the way in which he was transfixed to the tree by a hail of arrows shot by a legion of Orcs. That has a particular resonance with its echoes of iconic martyrs like St Sebastian, for me.

 

[Boom]

Boromir's death by a landslide.

Theoden's shining moment was his war speech. Ten years later and Bernard Hill's performance in that scene still sends chills down the back of my neck.

 

[Iceman]

One of the best parts of the trilogy.

 

[Marvolo]

So folks, now that we've completed the "Hobbit" Trilogy, if you were to look back at the LOTR trilogy as well, which protagonist had the better "death scene" (sendoff) as a whole? Things to factor/consider would be the execution, no pun intended, of their respective sequence and the "feels" that it brought upon.lol

BOROMIR (The Fellowship of the Ring)

GANDALF (The Fellowship of the Ring)

THEODEN (The Return of the King)

THORIN, FILI, & KILI (The Battle of Five Armies)

Best to "meh":

Boromir
Gandalf
Theoden
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Thorin
.
.
.
Kili
Fili

 

[Iceman]

If Gandalf had actually died or if I hadn't known in advance that he was going to come back he might have taken it.

 

[Destructus86]

Boromir.

While I was reading the book I always thought Frodo was going to die at the end which, if it happened, could have been the saddest death.

Well, you are partly right. At the very end of the trilogy he does die. Granted it's in incredible bliss for that short moment.

 

[Iceman]

I remember when I was first reading the books and seeing graffiti with Frodo Lives. I took that to mean he'd died at the end of the book and it was a thing.

 

[InCali]

Well, you are partly right. At the very end of the trilogy he does die. Granted it's in incredible bliss for that short moment.

Not sure about that one.......

 

[Quasimod0]

1. Boromir (my favorite death scene in any movie)
2. Thorin
3. Theoden
4. Gandalf
5. Kili and Fili

 

[Iceman]

Goose beats Boromir for me lol.

 

[Herolee10]

Could someone explain to me on why Sauron getting back his ring is such a bad thing btw? Lol I mean as far as I've seen, it can only turn ppl invisible. Sure, sauron would get his physical form again but it doesn't look like it would be a deal breaker from what I saw in the films. I mean the dude is still commanding his armies without a body.