Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - - Part 18

[<(o_o)>]

Thorin, Fili & Kili shouldn't have changed out of their armor, it just made the whole armoring up scene seem pointless after the fact. These were our hero dwarves so they could have at least made it seem like they would have had a greater chance of surviving. Yes bulky armor would have weighed them down but Jackson had every other armor clad person/creature moving around like it was nothing in their armor.

 

[InCali]

From the Encyclopedia of Arda review of Battle of Five Armies:

Wish PJ had read this.......

 

[InCali]

Thorin, Fili & Kili shouldn't have changed out of their armor, it just made the whole armoring up scene seem pointless after the fact. These were our hero dwarves so they could have at least made it seem like they would have had a greater chance of surviving. Yes bulky armor would have weighed them down but Jackson had every other armor clad person/creature moving around like it was nothing in their armor.

I wish it was the only thing that seemed pointless. I can understand why people liked the movies and I can, certainly, understand why others were disappointed. As a long time admirer of the writings, I fall into the latter category and would have preferred a truer tale.

I like your hero, by the way, and think she could have made every bit as good an Arwen as Liv...maybe better. The only way that "Tauriel" made any sense to me would have been to foreshadow the friendship of Gimli and Legolas and that probably would have meant her dying protecting (or trying to protect) a dwarf (which is what I thought was going to happen). Falling in love with a dwarf, however, seemed over the top to me. After seeing the LotR movies (which I also had "some" problems with), I think PJ took a half hearted swing on these movies and whiffed.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Part of what makes the Lord of the Rings great is that Tolkien didn't just copy the Hobbit formula note-for-note but did something different.

In PJ's case, he tried to be as unoriginal as possible and make a LOTR clone in the Hobbit trilogy. Hence adding as much Sauron as possible, a Wormtongue type character in Laketown, discount Arwen Tauriel and half-pint Aragorn Kili, lots of "ring temptation" moments to make Bilbo more similar to Frodo, etc.

Thus the Hobbit trilogy only serves as... well... a poor imitation of the LOTR films. Who'da thought that would happen?

 

[Quasimod0]

I didn't care for the Alfrid character much, but I didn't think he was anything like Wormtongue other than looking a bit like him. And Tauriel was pretty different from Arwen, with the whole fighting tough chick thing.

 

[C. Lee]

I just finished watching all the discs with extras for Hobbit part 1 and 2.....it's amazing to watch how they make these movies.

 

[Quasimod0]

Yeah watching the extras is my favorite part of the film experience, to be honest. I still watch the LotR extras every now and then. And the stuff on the Hobbit EEs is just as good!

 

[Vartha]

That's one of the reason's I love PJ's Extended editions. I've always bought the How To and behind the scenes Movie magazines back in the day

 

[C. Lee]

One of the best things I love about the extras on Jackson's movies (besides just showing how much work they put into it) is showing how much of a fun and family type shoot his films are. You hear about friction and animosity on some sets, and then you see the behind the scenes coverage of his sets and everyone having fun and helping one another. One segment showed how they needed to completely break down a set and move everything out of it (which included tons of dirt) and the people whose job it was to do that simply said to the camera crew that they really couldn't get it moved in the time they were supposed to do it in. In no time, a hundred people from all the different departments (lighting, sound, makeup, etc) came over and helped get it all moved. In America, not only would the unions not allow that to happen, I would dare to say that the people from the other departments wouldn't even have considered pitching in.

 

[Marvolo]

Yeah watching the extras is my favorite part of the film experience, to be honest. I still watch the LotR extras every now and then. And the stuff on the Hobbit EEs is just as good!

Agreed.

 

[InCali]

I didn't care for the Alfrid character much, but I didn't think he was anything like Wormtongue other than looking a bit like him. And Tauriel was pretty different from Arwen, with the whole fighting tough chick thing.

I can see it. Especially the Arwen/Tauriel thing. The Flight to the Ford chapter in the Fellowship was dramatically changed by PJ (the Elf being Arwen instead of Glorfindel) and he tried to make her a bad ass also.

The Alfrid (or whatever TF PJ called him)/Grima Wormtongue connection is that they both play the smarmy, devious cowards. Grima might be thought of as more the evil one, but it's hard to say.

In any case, half of them never even really existed in the books (at least not by name though I think there was a brief reference to the counselor of the master in the book) and one that was in the book (Glorfindel) never made it to the movie so, whatever.....big surprise.

 

[Marvolo]

Been meaning to bring this up for a while. Y'all know the giant worms that Gandalf calls "Wereworms"? Of course y'all do. How can anyone forget those particular bits of PJ fan fiction.

Anyways, it's not the worms themselves that I mind, but what PJ decided to name them. Obviously Peter was thinking of Werewolves. The problem is that "Werewolf" comes from the Old English compound word "were-wulf" meaning "man-wolf". More specifically the word "Were" in old English means "adult male human". So what Jackson actually named these massive worms is "Adult Male Human-Worms". And that makes absolutely no sense. Now normally I'd let a mistake like this slide, cause very few people today know the meaning of the old English word, but in this case it is a pretty big issue for me, because it's a slap in the face to Tolkien particularly because Tolkien was a philologist who loved Old English. He spent his life working with that language. Jackson ripped off an old English word and didn't even bother to check it's meaning and slapped it on a giant worm which he then shoved in his adaption of Tolkien's book. It's as if even unknowingly Jackson can't help but give Tolkien the finger.

 

[DarkKnight88]

Anyways, it's not the worms themselves that I mind, but what PJ decided to name them.

From The Hobbit book by J.R.R. Tolkien:

"Tell me what you want done, and I will try it, if I have to walk from here to the East of East and fight the wild Were-worms in the Last Desert."

 

[Marvolo]

From The Hobbit book by J.R.R. Tolkien:

"Tell me what you want done, and I will try it, if I have to walk from here to the East of East and fight the wild Were-worms in the Last Desert."

Well I have to think that Tolkien knew what the OE word meant so whatever those were-worms were in the Hobbit novel they werent the massive earth movers we see in the film. Tolkien wouldnt misuse a word like that.

 

[C. Lee]

This is when I shake my head in bewilderment.....you say Tolkien would never use a word....you are shown that Tolkien did use the word....and your response is that Jackson must have misused the word....when your original statement was that Tolkien would never have used it in the first place which apparently he did.

the wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round.....

 

[InCali]

Well I have to think that Tolkien knew what the OE word meant so whatever those were-worms were in the Hobbit novel they werent the massive earth movers we see in the film. Tolkien wouldnt misuse a word like that.

The bottom line is that PJ butchered this film and I hope he's never allowed to touch another Tolkien writing again. Even though the LotR trilogy he did was off base in so many ways, I was willing to give him a pass on that one because it seemed like he liked and, even more importantly, respected the work.

As far as were-worms go, there are, in my opinion, two possibilities. As they were mentioned only once, and by Bilbo, it's likely that they didn't even exist, but were part of hobbit folklore (and, yes, I realize Bilbo never really existed either ). The other possibility is that, they did, in fact, exist (or existed at some point in the past). "IF" they existed, they were almost certainly some sort of dragon (non-flying) in the mold of Glaurung (killed by Turambar). Glaurung was often referred to as a "Worm". There is no indication whatsoever of earth delving/moving worms doing this sort of work for Orcs. None. In fact, both Orcs and Dwarves are known to be tunnelers and built underground strongholds. Had Professor Tolkien decided that Orcs used this sort of creature, I'm sure we would all have heard about it.

This was yet another thing that was just made up and added nothing to the story. PJ probably read "Dune" and thought "Wow, I have a great IDEA"

EDIT: In PJ's world, those worms would have joined the battle and fought on the side of Sauron (unless they were like certain trolls and couldn't live in the sunlight and if that were the case, they would have attacked after sundown). It was just a worthless attempt at action or something along those lines.

 

[sueb1863]

There isn't anything else that can be adapted, so nobody's going to make another ME movie again, at least not for another several decades.

PJ really should have stopped with LotR. Now instead of being remembered for those films, he'll be remembered as the director who mangled The Hobbit and turned a nice simple story into a huge, convoluted, CGI-sodden mess. Not a good legacy.

 

[DarkKnight88]

PJ's legacy is fine. This isn't a Star Wars prequel scenario. The Hobbit films aren't bad. They just aren't the masterpieces that his Lord of the Rings trilogy was. Other than that, they're neither terrible nor great. They are what they are with some fantastic scenes sprinkled throughout.

 

[titansupes]

^ It actually is more or less the same thing that happened with the PT.

 

[InCali]

PJ's legacy is fine. This isn't a Star Wars prequel scenario. The Hobbit films aren't bad. They just aren't the masterpieces that his Lord of the Rings trilogy was. Other than that, they're neither terrible nor great. They are what they are with some fantastic scenes sprinkled throughout.

I don't think The Hobbit movies did anything for his legacy and think it tarnished it somewhat. You can't judge a body of work by one piece (though that does have an effect). I think he did a relatively good job on the LotR trilogy, though I wouldn't call them masterpieces. Some really interesting things could have been done with the film that were skipped, glossed over, or just changed that didn't add anything to the movie. It would have taken more time, but PJ has proven that he can stretch was should be a long, feature length movie into 3 so having an extended version of the LotR shouldn't have been out of the question.

This is all from the perspective of someone who knows an awful lot about Tolkien's writings and would really have liked to have seen a truer telling of the tales so I know I'm not viewing these movies with the same eyes as the average moviegoer. I'm not right and I'm not wrong.....I just have a different perspective and expectations.

 

[regwec]

An interesting article on Tolkkien's vision of good.

Unfortunately, the article displays some confusion over what is and isn't JRR's influence on the movies.

 

[InCali]

An interesting article on Tolkkien's vision of good.

Unfortunately, the article displays some confusion over what is and isn't JRR's influence on the movies.

Rather interesting (though I'm still having a hard time getting past the idea that the author's last name is "Bilbro") and it also brings some questions to mind (besides the confusion you bring up). This is clearly a conservative (religious) based forum and I wonder what their ideas are on capitalism and the push towards all things technology in the search of higher profits (This coming from an Electronic/Network Engineer). I see the potential for some real dilemmas if those writing and publishing this article are to be taken seriously.

Is this a group that is espousing a back to nature society or is this strictly along the lines of a spiritual approach in contradiction to actions?

 

[regwec]

I'm not sure it has a program, as such, but rather it offers a platform for artistic and literary criticism from a moderately conservative perspective, which tends not to have much of a voice amongst the arts establishments in most western countries.

 

[Venomfan]

this song came on the radio and i kept thinking it was going to go into the hobbit theme
sailing by - robert binge
[YT]Ic0mjPpCsks[/YT]

 

[craigdbfan]

Andrew Lesnie, the Oscar-winning cinematographer who spent more than a decade collaborating with director Peter Jackson on the six Lord of the Rings and Hobbit films, has died. He was 59.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/andrew-lesnie-dead-lord-rings-791929

Very unfortunate.